What do you do about letting your stuff idle and warm up early in the morning - Page 3 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #41 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 10:42 AM
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Look man, it's your vehicle. Do with it as you wish. As we said, you're not going to kill it doing that. I make my decisions about my cars based on my experience, as do you. I've experienced -20* startups that made the engine make awful screaming noises, and I'd rather not let that happen to my personal vehicles, so I use synthetic oil and that's what I run with. Not trying to "prove" anything, just sharing the info I have.
So you can share your information and opinion, but I can't share mine without you taking some sort of offense? Maybe you should stay in the political section where that is the norm. I basically said the same thing several posts back, when I said we are really splitting hairs, and nobody will ever see a measurable difference.

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post #42 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 10:46 AM
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Way to go @Mach Stang!
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post #43 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 12:02 PM
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Hereís a question. How much of a load does the manufacturer say I can put on a cold engine? And what would they like me to use to measure the load?

Oh, and I ask this as my truck is outside running, waiting to take the kids to school. Iím killing it! Ahhhhhh. Nah, Iím really not. Itíll be fine, just like engines have been since the beginning of engines. Lol

Oh and it still has the straight pennzoil conventional oil in it, that FCA engineers seems to think is fine for it when they built it.
The majority of owners manuals state not warming up engines. Being that they do test engines in sub zero temps and instantly run on a full load dyno, they are likely built for it.

Also, those 5.7s do have a history of rocker and lifter failures, especially in long idle situations (police departments), even though yours isn't particularly long. Less for the sake of the warm up argument and more for the potential life of your engine, it might be worth it do a used oil analysis. Just poking around on a couple different forums of those engines with the conventional oils, they drop like a rock in TBN almost immediately and move pretty slowly from there. Comparing penzoil ultra platinum, after 10k miles it's still retaining a higher level of additives than the conventional when it's fresh.

Those lack of additives in the conventional oils could very well be a part reason so many people are losing rockers/lifters in the 70k-150k mile range. Especially considering how many guys said that their rockers were wiped off.

I wasn't even aware that was an issue with those engines until someone brought it up. I asked my buddy's dad who runs an independent shop about it and he told me he does them quite a bit.
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post #44 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 12:23 PM
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Never heard of any rocker failures, but lots of cam and lifter failures, mostly around the 2011 mark, and plenty of documented cases, no matter what oil people are running, be it conventional, or synthetic. And you will also see a lifter design change, and Chrysler relating the damage to the style of lifter they were using for the MDS.

Warming up your engine at idle will never be bad. Just won’t. Loading a cold engine can be.


Show of hands here, for real world results. Who here has damaged a engine, due to letting it warm up at idle. Let’s see them.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------

I’ll even take another step here. The 408 in my car spent more time idling than going down the road. Lol. That thing would die if you applied any load at all, before it’d been running for 5 minutes. I tore that engine down, and the cylinders looked like they did when we assembled it, and the bearings were perfect. Can you please point me in the direction of the damaged, and/or worn parts, that the excessive idling was supposed to cause, so I can inspect them. I still have the whole thing disassembled and in a crate. I want to see this stuff in the real world, and this engine would be a perfect example. It literally spent hours per week idling.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------

Oh and by god! It did it with conventional oil too!

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post #45 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 12:40 PM
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Never heard of any rocker failures, but lots of cam and lifter failures, mostly around the 2011 mark, and plenty of documented cases, no matter what oil people are running, be it conventional, or synthetic. And you will also see a lifter design change, and Chrysler relating the damage to the style of lifter they were using for the MDS.

Warming up your engine at idle will never be bad. Just wonít. Loading a cold engine can be.


Show of hands here, for real world results. Who here has damaged a engine, due to letting it warm up at idle. Letís see them.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------

Iíll even take another step here. The 408 in my car spent more time idling than going down the road. Lol. That thing would die if you applied any load at all, before itíd been running for 5 minutes. I tore that engine down, and the cylinders looked like they did when we assembled it, and the bearings were perfect. Can you please point me in the direction of the damaged, and/or worn parts, that the excessive idling was supposed to cause, so I can inspect them. I still have the whole thing disassembled and in a crate. I want to see this stuff in the real world, and this engine would be a perfect example. It literally spent hours per week idling.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------

Oh and by god! It did it with conventional oil too!
You could easily ask the same question about engines that are driven lightly from a cold start and never find one with accelerated wear. This is especially relevant when you consider just how many Corollas are out there with 200k+ miles driven by females who go from starting the car to full throttle within 10 seconds.

Accelerating wear is about the worst idling a street engine could ever do, which likely wouldn't be much and oil dilution. I recall this was a problem back in my diesel days with some guys who would idle their trucks for a LONG time without high idle. It would wet sack and they would start to pump white smoke out the exhaust. Big diesels do this too. They lose all their heat and they get incomplete combustion.

Also, my buddy's dad, same one who runs the shop and my uncles won't idle their race engines. But that's more of an issue of a solid roller as they can wipe cams, doesn't really apply to street engines.

From my point of view, on a gas street engine it's not really about if it's going to hurt it. It's about if it's necessary, which I don't believe it is. If it does actually increase wear from extra time on the engine, you probably wouldn't notice. You'll be on your 57th transmission by then anyway.
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post #46 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 12:53 PM
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You could easily ask the same question about engines that are driven lightly from a cold start and never find one with accelerated wear.
I'm pretty sure I've said that at least twice now.
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Also, my buddy's dad, same one who runs the shop and my uncles won't idle their race engines. But that's more of an issue of a solid roller as they can wipe cams, doesn't really apply to street engines.
Absolutely irellevant. 1000 psi spring pressures over the nose, with no oil going through the lifter, therefore the cam relys completely on splash, is very hard on roller lifters. Not the same with any hydraulic valvetrain. Speaking of which, why did this start with washing down cylinders, and now we are talking about it being hard on valvetrain, just because you heard about the 5.7 cam/lifter failures?


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From my point of view, on a gas street engine it's not really about if it's going to hurt it. It's about if it's necessary, which I don't believe it is. If it does actually increase wear from extra time on the engine, you probably wouldn't notice. You'll be on your 57th transmission by then anyway.
It is necessary. Metal on metal parts like to be the same temp, but the absolute most important thing is that I'm comfortable when I get in. As I said, when my heated seat and steering wheel are all warmed up when I get in, but the air around them is cold, it just feels weird. It's rubs me the wrong way, like when the fluid around a cylinder is cold, but the inside of the cylinder is warm, the parts get rubbed the wrong way. I'm not worried about transmissions. Lifetime warranty = free until 60K and then $100/each for the Ram, and the oreillys brand fluid, with a transbrake and 5000 stall in the Mustang does just fine.

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post #47 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 02:24 PM
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Absolutely irellevant. 1000 psi spring pressures over the nose, with no oil going through the lifter, therefore the cam relys completely on splash, is very hard on roller lifters. Not the same with any hydraulic valvetrain. Speaking of which, why did this start with washing down cylinders, and now we are talking about it being hard on valvetrain, just because you heard about the 5.7 cam/lifter failures?




It is necessary. Metal on metal parts like to be the same temp, but the absolute most important thing is that I'm comfortable when I get in. As I said, when my heated seat and steering wheel are all warmed up when I get in, but the air around them is cold, it just feels weird. It's rubs me the wrong way, like when the fluid around a cylinder is cold, but the inside of the cylinder is warm, the parts get rubbed the wrong way. I'm not worried about transmissions. Lifetime warranty = free until 60K and then $100/each for the Ram, and the oreillys brand fluid, with a transbrake and 5000 stall in the Mustang does just fine.
Because you asked if anyone had ever seen idle related issues, and that was a situation, even though it doesn't really apply to street engines. You just correlated it with the lifters/rockers on the 5.7 because I had brought that up as a side note for a problem that could potentially point at extended intervals with conventional oil.

And yes, that was part of the concern brought up earlier in this thread. You are running the engine for twice as long trying to bring it up to temperature.

Ultimately at the end of the day we could go back and forth but there is no real way to know. There is no concrete evidence that idling is bad for the engine (unless in severe cases like police departments or taxis), and there is no evidence that driving a car that's cold increases wear, especially considering how 95% of drivers do it and warn out engines aren't a problem.
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post #48 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 02:41 PM
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Now that we've covered all that.......


OP, buy a block heater. Problem solved.

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post #49 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 05:16 PM
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So you can share your information and opinion, but I can't share mine without you taking some sort of offense? Maybe you should stay in the political section where that is the norm. I basically said the same thing several posts back, when I said we are really splitting hairs, and nobody will ever see a measurable difference.
Who said I was offended? Don't know who pissed in your oatmeal this morning, but it wasn't me. I'm not butthurt. Don't get butthurt yourself.

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woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
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ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
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post #50 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 05:38 PM
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Who said I was offended? Don't know who pissed in your oatmeal this morning, but it wasn't me. I'm not butthurt. Don't get butthurt yourself.
Hahahah nobody here can ever offend me. Statements that start with ďlook man,Ē and end with something Iíve already said, definitely shows some frustrations, but cool story anyways. I give you a C+ at best for trying to play it off.

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post #51 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 06:11 PM
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Who said I was offended? Don't know who pissed in your oatmeal this morning, but it wasn't me. I'm not butthurt. Don't get butthurt yourself.
You didn't know 69fastback is actually Bear Grylls?


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post #52 of 52 Old February 14th, 2018, 10:03 PM
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The temperature in Ohio is about the same as in Indiana. I rarely let my car sit and idle. I use full-synthetic oil which is less honey like so it flows sooner than conventional oil. I also use 0wXX oil which has additives allowing it to flow even sooner. At 100*F the oil in the motor is still too thick to flow. It cannot provide the hydrodynamic barrier needed to protect the crank bearings. They are being protected by the hydrostatic barrier left behind when oil clings to the parts. Full-synthetic oil is also known for clinging to parts better than conventional oil.

On all my vehicles I start the car and drive off. I live in the country. After 3 miles the thermostat is still closed but the water going through the heater is providing some heat. After 6 miles the thermostat is open and the water temperature is at normal operating temperature. The only time I let the car sit and idle is if I cannot see out of the windshield because of frost.

I have a friend who lives in town who always warms up his cars. A couple of weeks ago it drove off while he was sitting at his kitchen table drinking coffee. The guy that stole it was driving recklessly. The thief caught the eye of the police and led them on a high speed chase wrecking my friend's truck three times. It finally stopped running and he was arrested. If you live in a city there are risks associated with leaving a car running.

ProCharger says to not run the motor over 2500 rpm until the oil is completely warmed up. If you do that your motor will be fine without letting it warm up before driving. The cars my wife and I drive the most have 240,000 and 208,000 miles on them. Neither use excessive oil. Neither show any signs of excessive wear.

I have used block heaters but that in South Dakota. The engines simply wouldn't crank over if you didn't.

ProCharger P-1SC, 9 psi, STD 396/383; Uncorrected 388/375; SAE 383/370.
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