FRPP heads net power? Worth $$? - Forums at Modded Mustangs
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old April 12th, 2012, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: south Florida
Posts: 277
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
FRPP heads net power? Worth $$?

Hey guys, there isn't much info available on te FRPP heads online. I know the stock 3 valve heads flow very well so I'm wondering what kind of power I can gain from te FRPP heads? I know livernoise makes a sick set of heads but they're damn near 3 grand and they only netted 75 hp on a engine dyno on a stock 3valve. So I'm kind of interested in what a set of heads that cost half as much will be worth power wise? Thanks for any input
JustcruisinGT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old April 12th, 2012, 01:56 PM
Regular
 
Memphis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver WA
Posts: 329
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
You might want to double check the price on those heads, last time I looked at the FRPP heads they were $1499. EACH. I wouldnt bother doing heads unless you are currently also doing the shortblock to. What are your build plans? Heads alone are not going to make much difference, but they are great for building on, ie they will support more power as you continue to mod the engine. Given the labor involved though, I would wait to do the heads until you are forging the shortblock and then throw cams in the mix and a better flowing manifold. Its a lot easier to do it all in one go and will save you money, its harder though to have the patience to save up. In the meantime, A cold air intake, UDPs, CMDPs, Exhaust, Tune, Aluminum Driveshaft, Suspension, and gears will all make a noticeable difference.

430 rwhp.6psi. Forged longblock in progress.
Memphis is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old April 12th, 2012, 01:56 PM
Bob The Mo'fukkin Builda!
 
psycho bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 10,234
             
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to psycho bob
only you can decide if the cost is worth it. what are your plans for the car. if you have a 1/4 mile time in mind you should know that you can take your stock heads/cams into the 10's.


the value for dollar spent will always be with a sc'er or turbo setup.

my newest toy

psycho bob is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 Old April 12th, 2012, 02:28 PM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
wrathchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 2,516
       
iTrader: 1 reviews
$929 each at AM. Dont forget you will need head gaskets, new bolts, and you may as well change all the fluids (small but it all adds up) Plus a re-tune on a dyno, I dont know that I would trust a canned email tune, I dont give a shit who writes it, to make the best power from them. By the time all is said and done, probably add a good 600-1000 to the cost of just the heads themselves. Again, this is if YOU do the work (which honestly shouldnt be that hard)

And really, if you are doing heads, you may as well do head studs. Even if you dont NEED them, I would do them anyway.

And yes of course they make power, they are factory CNC ported heads.

probably looking at somewhere around 30whp? Ford claims 50whp between the hot rod cams and the FRPP heads. That doesnt mean 25whp each. They will each, on their own, probably do maybe 30 or so. But as we know, if you do 10 mods that by themselves add 10whp each, you wont end up with 100whp. (diminishing returns...)


Its more than just peak power gains.

You GOTTA stop thinking in terms of just "how much is my number going to go up"

Because you will concentrate on something that pushes your peak number up 50whp, and someone that modded smart but only gained 20whp hands you your ass on a platter because they picked up 20 peak but 40 down low and 50 at redline (just using those numbers as an example)

Heads will make dramatic changes to the power curve. I dont know specifically about the FRPP heads, but speaking just from my experience with a ported head, my semi educated guess would be that you are looking at the car pulling a bit harder everywhere past a little over the bottom end (maybe3k) then pulling a decent bit harder through mid to where the peak USED to be, then pulling and pulllllling and puuuuuuuuuulllllllllllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing to the rev limit.
*note* Obviously this is appled and oranges here but, Ill use this as an example.

My Forester went from peaking then tapering, to pulling like a freight train towards the rev limit. Obviously that is apples to oranges, as on a 4cyl turbo Subaru motor with a big turbo, heads done like mine are good for somewhere around 60whp at peak. (which on that particular motor, is now close to redline) Obviously you arent going to get that from the FRPP heads on a non boosted car, but it goes to show the dramatic changes heads can make.




Also, when I am talking about the big gains I experienced at the rev limit, please dont mistake that for saying I didnt make more power at the range where the peak USED to be. I made more power over the entire curve.



I would think pretty hard about the expense before you do the heads. By the time all is said and done, you are looking at minimum 1800 bucks I would say, and that is if you do the labor yourself. That is a little less than half what a centri would cost, for 1/4 to 1/5th the gains.

Also please note, I am only speaking of the FRPP head. A more extensively ported head will gain more. Not that the FRPP heads arent ported well. They are just a bit more conservative.


Take this all for what its worth though, like I said, I have no firsthand experience with the FRPP heads, or heads on a 3V at all for that matter.

But I am speaking from general knowledge and firstand experience with worked heads (to one degree or another) SO I gotta think its fairly on point.




I am sure one of my haters (OMG I hate that term) will come in and crap all over it and essentially call me an idiot. I dont mind being told I am wrong, but some people are just dicks about it. (although most people on this board are VERY cool and generally great guys)

BAMA tune JLT CAI FRPP manifold J&M adj panhard bar/LCAs UMI LCA reloc brackets Eibach Prosystem GT500 strut tops Hot Rod Cams JBA LTs GT500 TB Meziere EWP FRRP 4.10
wrathchild is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old April 13th, 2012, 02:35 AM Thread Starter
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: south Florida
Posts: 277
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
I'm just stuck on my next mod. I have full bolt ons, cams, gears, tuned. I really don't wanna spend the money on a blower 5-6 grand plus labor and tune is ridiculous and I'll have to limit it on a stock bottom end. I have a nitrous kit sitting in my room but I think the fact of having one motor tune and one spray tune is a huge turn off to me. My build plans? Simple I don't want any other car in my category to beat me in a straight line including the M3 BMW
JustcruisinGT is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old April 13th, 2012, 04:30 AM
Bob The Mo'fukkin Builda!
 
psycho bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 10,234
             
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to psycho bob
if you're not doing the labor heads are going to be more expensive to have installed than a sc'er or turbo kit. that said if you have any experience wrenching you can easily install your own sc'er or turbo.

when i bought my heads i called around to find out installation costs and labor alone was near $1500. that's not including the tune also needed. figuring i spent 2k on jpc stage 2 or 3 (can't remember) then adding another 2k for install and parts i was looking at the price of a sc'er already. i ended up doing the work myself.

you're going to need head gaskets, cam bolts, crank bolt, new fluid, may as well replace the exhaust gaskets rather than re-use them, prelube for your cams. i suggest if you do it to just go straight to using ARP hardware.

my newest toy

psycho bob is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old April 13th, 2012, 01:11 PM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
wrathchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 2,516
       
iTrader: 1 reviews
Yeah when I priced out buying the heads and getting them installed it came out to be within a couple hundred bucks of the basic Vortech kit.


The basic vortech kit is like 4k. Not 5-6 grand. And it can be email tuned. And will give you a hell of a lot more than the heads The Rousch M90 is like 4995, before the AM forum discount, and comes with a free tune (that sucks but works) and you can get an email tune for it that works well.

Just spend the extra money and do a supercharger. If you are on a budget, get the non intercooled Vortech kit. Its gonna be like $500 more than the heads+extras+installation.


Add the heads and you still wont break 400whp. You will be like 360-380. The non intercooled vortech kit, on an otherwise completely stock car makes like 360. On a car with cams and headers you will break 400 no problem.


Keep in mind, if you do heads, you are just BUYING parts.

If you do a supercharger, you are selling your intake, and if you do a PD blower your CMDPs (or manifold if you have the FRPP manifold) and this will offset the price difference.

Also since you say you have "full bolt ons" I assume you have an underdrive pulley, you will be selling that as well. If you have the Steeda's you are looking at 150ish in your pocket for that alone.

BAMA tune JLT CAI FRPP manifold J&M adj panhard bar/LCAs UMI LCA reloc brackets Eibach Prosystem GT500 strut tops Hot Rod Cams JBA LTs GT500 TB Meziere EWP FRRP 4.10
wrathchild is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old April 13th, 2012, 04:30 PM
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 72
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to mhanksii Send a message via Yahoo to mhanksii
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathchild View Post
Yeah when I priced out buying the heads and getting them installed it came out to be within a couple hundred bucks of the basic Vortech kit.


The basic vortech kit is like 4k. Not 5-6 grand. And it can be email tuned. And will give you a hell of a lot more than the heads The Rousch M90 is like 4995, before the AM forum discount, and comes with a free tune (that sucks but works) and you can get an email tune for it that works well.

Just spend the extra money and do a supercharger. If you are on a budget, get the non intercooled Vortech kit. Its gonna be like $500 more than the heads+extras+installation.


Add the heads and you still wont break 400whp. You will be like 360-380. The non intercooled vortech kit, on an otherwise completely stock car makes like 360. On a car with cams and headers you will break 400 no problem.


Keep in mind, if you do heads, you are just BUYING parts.

If you do a supercharger, you are selling your intake, and if you do a PD blower your CMDPs (or manifold if you have the FRPP manifold) and this will offset the price difference.

Also since you say you have "full bolt ons" I assume you have an underdrive pulley, you will be selling that as well. If you have the Steeda's you are looking at 150ish in your pocket for that alone.
+1 great advice and it's what I did. Sold my UD pullies, CAI, CMD Plates and bought a Magnachager. Have never once thought it was a bad idea and still four years later love hearing that blower whine @WOT on the highway!
mhanksii is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old April 13th, 2012, 05:28 PM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
wrathchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 2,516
       
iTrader: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustcruisinGT View Post
I'm just stuck on my next mod. I have full bolt ons, cams, gears, tuned. I really don't wanna spend the money on a blower 5-6 grand plus labor and tune is ridiculous and I'll have to limit it on a stock bottom end. I have a nitrous kit sitting in my room but I think the fact of having one motor tune and one spray tune is a huge turn off to me. My build plans? Simple I don't want any other car in my category to beat me in a straight line including the M3 BMW


For all the money you are going to spend, just put your car back to stock and sell it and buy either a used GT500 or a 2012 GT. A 2012 GT with a reflash and intake will walk the M3, and absolutely walk your 2010 with heads/cams.

BAMA tune JLT CAI FRPP manifold J&M adj panhard bar/LCAs UMI LCA reloc brackets Eibach Prosystem GT500 strut tops Hot Rod Cams JBA LTs GT500 TB Meziere EWP FRRP 4.10
wrathchild is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old April 13th, 2012, 05:29 PM
Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 481
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Livernois makes the FRPP heads. The Stage 2's are about $2000 and the Stage 3's are about $3000. I have the Stage 3's. Don't know if they were worth it but I got 'em

IMO, you don't need head studs unless you are over 20psi. You can buy the FRPP 3v head changing kit for about $65. Includes all new head bolts and new oem head gaskets. That's what I have on my car.
FordEvangelist is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old April 13th, 2012, 07:36 PM
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 224
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathchild View Post
For all the money you are going to spend, just put your car back to stock and sell it and buy either a used GT500 or a 2012 GT. A 2012 GT with a reflash and intake will walk the M3, and absolutely walk your 2010 with heads/cams.
I agree, Buy a GT500 and slap a 2.9L Whipple on it, going that way will net you 700rwhp and be a heck of a lot cheaper than building a car from scratch.
debit_free_2010 is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old April 13th, 2012, 07:45 PM
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 224
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordEvangelist View Post
Livernois makes the FRPP heads. The Stage 2's are about $2000 and the Stage 3's are about $3000. I have the Stage 3's. Don't know if they were worth it but I got 'em

IMO, you don't need head studs unless you are over 20psi. You can buy the FRPP 3v head changing kit for about $65. Includes all new head bolts and new oem head gaskets. That's what I have on my car.
Yeah, my engine builder/tuner guy said the FRPP heads weren't worth the money. He also didn't like the Livernois heads, sorry.

In the end, he said the stock 3v heads work well and he's tuned a few 700+hp 3v's using the stock heads.

I made 565/505 on the stock heads with 14psi boost and the stock exhaust manifolds and 93 octane BP pump gas.
debit_free_2010 is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old April 14th, 2012, 12:08 AM
Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 481
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Livernois and FRPP are the same heads. The ported heads will flow a bit more than oem but the oem heads do work well. Stage 3 gets you 1mm oversize valves as well with upgraded valve guides.

Heads are like throttle bodies... oem is good for 99% of the cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by debit_free_2010 View Post
Yeah, my engine builder/tuner guy said the FRPP heads weren't worth the money. He also didn't like the Livernois heads, sorry.

In the end, he said the stock 3v heads work well and he's tuned a few 700+hp 3v's using the stock heads.

I made 565/505 on the stock heads with 14psi boost and the stock exhaust manifolds and 93 octane BP pump gas.
FordEvangelist is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old April 15th, 2012, 12:36 PM
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 72
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to mhanksii Send a message via Yahoo to mhanksii
Quote:
Originally Posted by debit_free_2010 View Post
Yeah, my engine builder/tuner guy said the FRPP heads weren't worth the money. He also didn't like the Livernois heads, sorry.

In the end, he said the stock 3v heads work well and he's tuned a few 700+hp 3v's using the stock heads.

I made 565/505 on the stock heads with 14psi boost and the stock exhaust manifolds and 93 octane BP pump gas.
What mods got you those numbers?
mhanksii is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old April 15th, 2012, 08:06 PM
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 224
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhanksii View Post
What mods got you those numbers?

It's a basic forged stroker, Kellogg crank, Manley rods w/ARP2000 bolts, custom grind Comp Cams, GT500 pumps, 60# injectors, Cometic HG's. However I used a set of custom 4032 alloy high compression NA pistons that a shop swapped out that had only 6 dyno runs on them.

With a light weight FW and 1 piece DS, that thing spins up wicked fast.
debit_free_2010 is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old April 15th, 2012, 08:15 PM
Not Banned
 
101fng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Johnson City, TN
Posts: 6,620
               
iTrader: 2 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by debit_free_2010 View Post
It's a basic forged stroker, Kellogg crank, Manley rods w/ARP2000 bolts, custom grind Comp Cams, GT500 pumps, 60# injectors, Cometic HG's. However I used a set of custom 4032 alloy high compression NA pistons that a shop swapped out that had only 6 dyno runs on them.

With a light weight FW and 1 piece DS, that thing spins up wicked fast.
Now how much more do you think you could get out of that thing with just some light port work on the heads?

101fng is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old August 25th, 2013, 12:27 AM
Premium Member
 
tigerhonaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 332
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to tigerhonaker Send a message via Skype™ to tigerhonaker
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by FordEvangelist View Post
Livernois makes the FRPP heads. The Stage 2's are about $2000 and the Stage 3's are about $3000. I have the Stage 3's. Don't know if they were worth it but I got 'em

IMO, you don't need head studs unless you are over 20psi. You can buy the FRPP 3v head changing kit for about $65. Includes all new head bolts and new oem head gaskets. That's what I have on my car.
Hello,

I sure would like to hear and read all about those Ford Racing {High Flow} heads you have.

Terry aka "tigerhonaker"
tigerhonaker is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Forums at Modded Mustangs forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome