Why don't y'all do coil-overs?? - Forums at Modded Mustangs
 
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post #1 of 16 Old July 22nd, 2013, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
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Why don't y'all do coil-overs??

With how much shocks/struts/springs cost, why don't you go do coil-overs so you can get some height adjustability? The Eibach Pro-Street Coil Overs are only $1200! Is there a reason why people don't do this more??
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post #2 of 16 Old July 22nd, 2013, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Red07GT View Post
With how much shocks/struts/springs cost, why don't you go do coil-overs so you can get some height adjustability? The Eibach Pro-Street Coil Overs are only $1200! Is there a reason why people don't do this more??
From what I've heard, the Eibach's are mediocre. I'm sure someone will chime in. I know whiskey just put CO's on his. I don't remember what brand he went with. You usually have to pay to play when it comes to CO's

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post #3 of 16 Old July 22nd, 2013, 06:27 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah that explains the huge price jumps. The R1 model is like 2g's and then one above that is almost 3!

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post #4 of 16 Old July 22nd, 2013, 07:11 AM
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I have H&R Coil overs and I like em. I'm going to yank them out in a few months in favor of some air bags



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post #5 of 16 Old July 22nd, 2013, 09:10 AM
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Whiskey has ground control coilovers. 1600 dollars, i think. Custom valved koni yellows with spring rate of your choice. He says they're the cheapest coilovers he would recommend.

Eibach made their name in springs, not shocks.

If you don't need the adjustability of coilovers, just get springs/shocks


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post #6 of 16 Old July 22nd, 2013, 10:48 AM
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Another thing to consider is cheap coilovers are going to have cheap internals on the dampers(struts/shocks). Cheap parts won't last as long and won't ride as good as higher quality parts. So people buy higher quality struts/shocks and go with lowering springs for a similar to slightly less cost than entry level coilovers while maintaining better ride characteristics and still achieving the desired look.


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post #7 of 16 Old July 22nd, 2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red07GT View Post
With how much shocks/struts/springs cost, why don't you go do coil-overs so you can get some height adjustability? The Eibach Pro-Street Coil Overs are only $1200! Is there a reason why people don't do this more??
Yes, yes there is... The reason is because you can get a much better handling car, with adjustable damping (adjustable shocks/struts) and a better choice of spring for a good bit less. I would take a set of Koni Yellows, H&R Race springs and a set of Ground Control street camber plates (or Maximum Motorsports or Vorshlag) all day long and be at that same price. The Koni's are going to be better capable of dealing with the spring rate and ride really well and they have a lifetime warranty with a known quality life span. Those Eibachs, well, lets just say this, Eibach is known for making all things springs and they do them reasonably well but dampers (shocks/struts), they are mediocre at best.

The other thing is people have no idea the performance they leave on the table by getting coilovers and having them installed incorrectly. Once you "set" your ride height, you really need to have the car corner balanced and aligned. That corner balancing should have you or an analogue of you in the driver seat. In doing so you ensure that the car has equal grip in right and left hand corners. THAT IS HUGE!!!!

Lastly, do you have any options with lower end coilovers? Nope. You are stuck with whatever compromise that Eibach/H&R/blah blah blah, give you for spring rates and damping. Don't like the way your Eibachs ride, tough, there isn't any other available valvings and no one to service them except Eibach themselves.

The cheapest set of coilovers that you can do that with are Ground Control's coilovers. At $1650 shipped to most places in the US, they are a bargain. You get a set of "custom" (3 valving options) valved Koni Yellow inserts in Ground Control's strut bodies and Koni Yellows out back, your choice of springs (unlimited choice here, in 10lb/in intervals) and Ground Control's camber plates which are pretty nice. Best of all, the Koni inserts are still warrantied by Koni North America which means if during the lifetime of the product they blow, Koni pays for it. Ground Control also has a ridiculously nice warranty that replaces all manufacturing defects and they will reservice any of their camber plates should you not feel comfortable doing it yourself (it's pretty easy). From there your options really, really, really start to get expensive, KW Variant 3's, AST 4150's, Moton Club Sports, and on and on until you get to the stupid high end stuff like Penske, JRZ, etc which can be upwards of 5000 or more for just the shocks/struts!

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Originally Posted by crackpotfox View Post
Whiskey has ground control coilovers. 1600 dollars, i think. Custom valved koni yellows with spring rate of your choice. He says they're the cheapest coilovers he would recommend.

Eibach made their name in springs, not shocks.

If you don't need the adjustability of coilovers, just get springs/shocks


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Yes, and while there is a lot of "These are what I run, I like them" I think I've backed up my reasoning for liking them with logical arguments to show that there is more than just fanboyism going on here. +1 to everything else said here.

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Another thing to consider is cheap coilovers are going to have cheap internals on the dampers(struts/shocks). Cheap parts won't last as long and won't ride as good as higher quality parts. So people buy higher quality struts/shocks and go with lowering springs for a similar to slightly less cost than entry level coilovers while maintaining better ride characteristics and still achieving the desired look.
And definitely +1 to this. Conekiller and I both run coilovers, Conekiller is on AST4150's with some trick valving in them to make them ride like he's floating on clouds but get stupid aggressive when he dials them in. It's a setup that I am very jealous of and I hope that I get to ride in the first week of September (HINT HINT NUDGE NUDGE COME TO NATIONALS ).



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post #8 of 16 Old July 22nd, 2013, 12:13 PM
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Whiskey, if i thought you were a fanboy or whatever, i wouldn't ask you questions and spread the subsequent knowlege.


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post #9 of 16 Old July 22nd, 2013, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you guys again for the valuable insight. I will not be going with the cheap coil-overs now. You guys are awesome :beer::thumbup:

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post #10 of 16 Old July 23rd, 2013, 11:11 AM
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H&r race springs, koni yellows, mm cc plates, and a phb from am with the discount is about 1286 shipped. I'm pricing for my choice and decided to share


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post #11 of 16 Old July 23rd, 2013, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
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H&r race springs, koni yellows, mm cc plates, and a phb from am with the discount is about 1286 shipped. I'm pricing for my choice and decided to share


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Is it necessary for you to do the Caster/Camber plates? Would the GT500 strut mounts and camber bolts not be enough adjustability for you?? I ask 'cause I just bought the Eibach Pro-line springs and DIDN'T do the CC plates but the mounts and bolts.

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by crackpotfox View Post
H&r race springs, koni yellows, mm cc plates, and a phb from am with the discount is about 1286 shipped. I'm pricing for my choice and decided to share


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And btw, CrackPotFox, that horsey avatar is freaky as fuck!!
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post #12 of 16 Old July 23rd, 2013, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Red07GT View Post
Is it necessary for you to do the Caster/Camber plates? Would the GT500 strut mounts and camber bolts not be enough adjustability for you?? I ask 'cause I just bought the Eibach Pro-line springs and DIDN'T do the CC plates but the mounts and bolts.

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:17 PM ----------



And btw, CrackPotFox, that horsey avatar is freaky as fuck!!

Cc plates give you the option to run a lot of camber for track use, they are also better built and more durable than the gt500 mounts which are only marginally better than stock, if you don't want to pay full price for cc plates the least I'd personally go is steada hd mounts. But plenty of people run gt500 mounts and bolts with no issue, for me though I prefer over doing as opposed to under

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post #13 of 16 Old July 23rd, 2013, 11:02 PM
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A couple of reasons FOR camber plates of which I'll briefly gloss over (if you want more details, the second page of the Suspension sticky at the top of this page has my "rant" on camber bolts).

1.) Durability: The GT500 mounts are not a whole lot more durable than the stock mounts are. They have a larger bearing in them, that's true, but said bearing doesn't make the mount itself stronger. I had issues with mine, snapped one of the 4 studs off while swapping them onto my stock struts and springs for winter and ended up having to take it all apart when the stud snapped. Upon taking it apart the GT500 mount failed exactly like the stock unit did, bearings everywhere and the whole nine yards.

2.) Adjustment at the strut top vs the knuckle: It seems trivial but adjusting camber at the knuckle where the strut meets the spindle changes the scrub radius of the front end. If you are adjusting negative camber out you are actually increasing the scrub radius that is already built into the stock suspension. Add wider wheels with a different offset and center line from stock and you'll start to notice that your tires wear out excessively quick. I've noticed before a few cases where people had factory spec camber (around -0.75) and came on here asking how to dial out MORE because the insides of their tires are getting destroyed. It took me a while to realize what the cause was, but the only thing I can attribute it to was dialing out a lot of camber by using the camber bolts dicked with the scrub radius enough that on their wheel/tire combo it would eat the inside shoulder of the tires.

By moving the adjustment to the strut top, you don't change the amount of scrub radius since the actual angle with which the wheel/tire rotates around the strut remains the same as factory. You can dial out your negative camber safely this way.

On camber bolts: I don't recommend any bolts but the Ford OEM bolts (expensive, about $120 for the set which includes two caster bolts that are useless) which require slight modification to the strut ears to accommodate. These, and the H&R bolts (hens teeth) are the only bolts that can be torqued to the full 148lb*ft of torque value. Most aftermarket bolts are around 80lb*ft. Why does it matter? Well, Ford redesigned the front spindles going into the 2011 model year because of a number of failures caused by improper bolt torque allowing the spindle to move inside the spindle ears. Several of these failures were reported on street driven vehicles as well as a few FR500 race cars. The redesign included a wider "ear" on the spindle and new bolts with a higher 166lb*ft of torque threshold and finer threads. Since most camber bolts can't be torqued tot he full value, you are losing clamping force on the spindle and there is a potential for damage to occur. It's unlikely, but it was concerning enough to Ford to redesign the front of the 2011+ cars.

That's just my opinion on the matter anyway.



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post #14 of 16 Old July 24th, 2013, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Wow I hope I don't screw myself now! I can always add cc plates if I start having this issues, right?

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post #15 of 16 Old July 24th, 2013, 01:05 PM
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Wow I hope I don't screw myself now! I can always add cc plates if I start having this issues, right?

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Yes you can add them later, it's just more work!



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post #16 of 16 Old July 24th, 2013, 01:13 PM
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Geez so much work to actually do it right.


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