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post #21 of 38 Old February 5th, 2015, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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I understand. Makes perfect sense. A friend of mine has a wrecked 05 with a build mmr motor with 5000 miles on it. 750 hp kenne bell, suspension, tires all for 10k. trying to get him down a couple grand. if it doesn't work, I think I've decided on a turbo (hellion kit with a turbonetics turbo) instead of a sc.
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post #22 of 38 Old February 6th, 2015, 12:22 AM
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Man I'd swipe that if you could. Supercharger alone is like atleast 6k I believe
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post #23 of 38 Old February 11th, 2015, 03:29 PM
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Stock 3v will handle 500rwhp if you give it plenty of fuel and don't go crazy on the timing. I ran ~500rwhp on the stock motor at 12lbs of boost and 21* timing on 93 octane for 4 years. Eventually bent a rod because I had a fuel system hiccup and it leaned out on me.
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post #24 of 38 Old February 11th, 2015, 11:13 PM
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Still on stock original motor making 590whp/525tq (on my tuner's high-reading dyno) or 530whp/484tq (at a mixed car dyno day on a more conservative dyno). I make power with just 9.5psi. Even more remarkable, my ambient atmospheric pressure is just 12.0psi (for a total of 21.5psi absolute). This would be equivalent to a sea-level car running just 7psi boost (14.5 Patm+7psi boost).

Anyhow, the first point of bringing this up is just to agree with the guy that said it's not really about the boost so much, but about the torque and a good tune.

The second point is that the 450/450 or 500/500 is a good rule of thumb, but I'm sure guys have lost motors making far less power whereas I'm running a bit over that. (And I'm prepared to get a built motor if/when I blow my stocker).

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post #25 of 38 Old February 12th, 2015, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
Still on stock original motor making 590whp/525tq (on my tuner's high-reading dyno) or 530whp/484tq (at a mixed car dyno day on a more conservative dyno). I make power with just 9.5psi. Even more remarkable, my ambient atmospheric pressure is just 12.0psi (for a total of 21.5psi absolute). This would be equivalent to a sea-level car running just 7psi boost (14.5 Patm+7psi boost).

Ya think? You know that's like 700 at the motor. Lol

Anyways, what makes your car an apples to oranges comparison, that you fail to mention, is the fuel you burn. You can do things with E85 that you can't with regular gas. The fact that it burns slower and you can do things with timing and compression, puts it a whole different category.


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post #26 of 38 Old February 12th, 2015, 08:16 AM
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Ya think? You know that's like 700 at the motor. Lol

Anyways, what makes your car an apples to oranges comparison, that you fail to mention, is the fuel you burn. You can do things with E85 that you can't with regular gas. The fact that it burns slower and you can do things with timing and compression, puts it a whole different category.
I always give that disclaimer to my tuner's dyno (RWR Motorsports, Littleton CO). I tuned my prior car (Subaru) on the lowest reading dyno anywhere so when I switched platforms and shops I was acutely aware of just how different dyno's read. It's also why I went to a local dyno at another shop to find out what it "really" makes. Just goes to show that there can be easily a 10%+ difference in dyno readings on the same car in the same town. I throw that number (590whp) out there first though since that is the tuner most Mustang guys use in my town so for them it's apples to apples.

E85 is great for sure and is an important mod for me indeed. I didn't outline my whole mod list in my post but the abbreviated version is in my sig. The point is, as others have pointed out, that boost doesn't determine power output... it is the mix of mods that does with boost being a huge factor of course. E85 will go a long ways in prevention detonation for me, but I still have the big torque that gives my motor a chance of failing every time I go WOT....

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post #27 of 38 Old February 12th, 2015, 08:56 PM
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These guys are spot-on in this thread...target ~10-12 PSI at the maximum based on the rest of your build...use conservative timing, address your fuel system...stay around 500 RWHP or so and you will do fine.

My build = 9 PSI with longtube headers, stock cams and heads and a TVS blower...I make just shy of 500 RWHP. Before the headers it took 12 PSI to make similar power. The headers actually lowered boost 3 PSI and I picked up a bit of power on the same timing.

My car has had zero issues engine-wise and I've been boosted since ~2009. I have ~40,000 miles. Last 30,000 or so have been boosted.


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post #28 of 38 Old November 22nd, 2016, 03:26 PM
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I have a take off blower, heat exchanger, throttle body and injectors from a GT 500 (and DOB manifold) that I'm thinking about installing on my 07 GT 5 speed. The car only has 15,000 miles on it. I'm thinking about doing the entire bottom end of the engine instead of trying to get the stock short block to live under boost. I figure that way I can employ the "go big or go home" mentality and not worry about it. My only concern is passing smog here in Cali. Ford sells these kits and they have a CARB EO number, so I'm fairly confident that I can get it through smog. Any input, info, advice is greatly appreciated.
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post #29 of 38 Old November 22nd, 2016, 04:12 PM
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I have a take off blower, heat exchanger, throttle body and injectors from a GT 500 (and DOB manifold) that I'm thinking about installing on my 07 GT 5 speed. The car only has 15,000 miles on it. I'm thinking about doing the entire bottom end of the engine instead of trying to get the stock short block to live under boost. I figure that way I can employ the "go big or go home" mentality and not worry about it. My only concern is passing smog here in Cali. Ford sells these kits and they have a CARB EO number, so I'm fairly confident that I can get it through smog. Any input, info, advice is greatly appreciated.
This thread is almost a year old. While I appreciate that you searched for a similar topic, I suggest posting your own topic, if you haven't already! Good luck.

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post #30 of 38 Old November 22nd, 2016, 06:03 PM
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This thread is almost a year old. While I appreciate that you searched for a similar topic, I suggest posting your own topic, if you haven't already! Good luck.
Hmm that's like me saying go back to your v6 section.....great suggestion though

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post #31 of 38 Old November 22nd, 2016, 09:06 PM
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Hmm that's like me saying go back to your v6 section.....great suggestion though
Except that him posting a topic of his own benefits him by getting answers, since there is no mention of CARB in this thread, but plenty of members probably can help answer his question.

Whereas, I have knowledge other than just V6 specific, so....

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post #32 of 38 Old November 29th, 2016, 07:30 AM
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What is a safe amount of boost for a 05 gt (stock internals)...i hear 6 then i hear 8....anybody know what that equates to in horsepower?
Short answer - Boost doesn't really matter.

Long answer below:


I don’t think “boost” has been advertised or explained correctly by the industry. And then the common “base knowledge” that we have is lacking in scope or detail.

A blower is only an air pump. When you pick a pulley size you are picking how much air it will pump through out the RPM range. At the end of the day it takes “X” amount of air (plus a little fuel of course) to make “X” amount of HP. Of course engine size, compression ratio, engine efficiency, etc have a factor in this but on a basic level if you jam 1000cfm of air into a 4.6L V-8 motor it will make almost the same HP as if you were to jam 1000cfm into a 2.5L 4cyl. Granted the 4cyl with have more boost (see next paragraph).

Boost is only a representation of the restriction that the motor represents. For example, if you put heads/cams on a blown car and don’t change the pulley it will “loose boost” because it has less of a restriction. This doesn’t mean the blower is not operating efficiently or there is something wrong. It just means it’s easier for the air to get through the motor. In the above example it will make more HP and have less boost.

Boost is not the only factor when the term “safe” comes up (in regards to the combustion chamber). Boost is coupled directly to timing, air/fuel (A/F) and intake air temps (IAT’s) when it comes to keeping things safe. They all work together. For example, you can run a high boost numbers and not lean on the timing real hard (were going to assume good IAT’s and A/F) and have a perfectly safe combustion chamber. On the other end of the spectrum you can run low boost with a lot of timing and put holes in pistons. A/F has a lot to do with what is safe in the combustion chamber also. If you run leanish numbers (12.0-12.5:1) it doesn’t matter what your boost or timing is, you will start hurting parts. And lastly if you have high IAT’s they will hurt the combustion chamber almost in the exact same way running lean does. The good thing about our ECU’s is that they automatically start pulling timing as the IAT’s go up as a “safety net” in case the car is heat soaked or the IC pump stops working. So by itself boost does not hurt parts, only boost in combination with aggressive timing, high IAT’s or lean A/F ratios hurts stuff.

Boost, when thought of as cylinder pressure, or cylinder pressure increase is a non issue. 15psi of boost only adds about 8% to the cylinder pressure or “rod loading”. Which is very, very little. For comparisons sake if you change a motors redline from 6,200rpm to 6,450rpm (which people do all the time) you are increasing the rod loading by the same 8% You are safer with 15lbs of boost than revving your motor to 6,500rpm (which people do all the time).

An example of “Shaky Science” and a contributor to some of the disinformation out there is Kenne Bell (I used to have one on my car…..junk). They will tell you that their kit will make “X” hp at lets say 8.5psi. If you read carefully though you will see that they always run all of their “tests” at 11.5:1 A/F ratio with……..wait for it……25deg of timing! That’s a LOT of timing and they are only getting away with that by using 100+ octane fuel. They say for consistence sake. So if you back the timing down to even “aggressive” (16-18deg) you are looking at a considerable HP loss. When I was at 450hp-ish the base KB kit was supposed to make 450+ at 8.5psi. I put the supplied pulley on my car and had it tuned it made 438rwhp at 10.2psi. Yeah, their “8.5psi” pulley made a touch over 10psi on a stock motor and it didn’t make as much power as it should have with less boost. We ended up running 16deg of timing to keep things nice and safe. And to poke another hole in KB’s “Science”/claims you could only get 1-2 runs before their crappy IC system heat soaked and it pulled enough timing to chop 50-60hp out of it. All of their published numbers are with a constant IAT that is not pulling timing. That is not at all representative of real life unless you are making a pass, cooling the car down for an hour, making another pass, etc. Just driving around town has the IAT’s up near the point where it will start chopping out timing.

Now for the other “safe”. The safe threshold for the stock motor is 450-500rwhp. Assuming everything that is going on in the combustion chamber is okey dokey the safe HP is based solely on the mechanical strength of the motor (Rods, pistons, crank, block, bolts, etc). In actuality it’s the rods that give up first. It doesn’t matter how you are making HP, be it with supercharger boost, turbo boost, nitrous, or naturally aspirated (as long as it is not being spun to the moon) the lower end will only take so much force before it breaks. It doesn’t care how that force is being made. Be it 5psi, 25psi, a bucket of nitrous, etc. the bottom end does not know where the power is “coming from”.

So at the end of the day to keep the motor safe you want to exert only 450-500rwhp on the mechanicals of the motor. And you want what is going on in the combustion chamber to be safe. For the first tune on our test car we went REAL SAFE with the tune. We could have easily thrown more timing at it and leaned it out slightly and made close to 500rwhp without changing the boost. So there is your sliding scale. Do you want 450rwhp with 12psi and super safe timing or 450wrhp with 10psi and timing with a little attitude? We went with the safe route. We could probably run 89 octane with this tune and not hurt a thing. We won’t be doing that, but we could.

Additionally we have found it is VERY common for boost gauges to read incorrectly. Even the ones that are “attached” to the dyno’s out there. Every boost gauge should be considered suspect until proven otherwise.
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post #33 of 38 Old March 7th, 2017, 10:21 PM
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OK, so I resurrected an older thread, so what. I had a pertinent question and I'm new in here. I have gotten a PM telling me to leave old threads to die, that I'll just piss off the old school crew, others in this thread complaining. I did the research, found the thread, DIDN"T ask a stupid Q without doing my homework and looking everywhere first... Do you have to $hit gold nickels in here to get some help?? I think I'll just go back to lurking in here and not try to be one of the good ole boys... Total shame because I've been in the fabrication biz for 30+ years and I have a lot of info to share. Thanks for the warm welcome. Have a nice day
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post #34 of 38 Old March 7th, 2017, 10:30 PM
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that I'll just piss off the old school crew
I.E. a bunch of people that are pissed at the world because they were never one of the "cool kids".
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post #35 of 38 Old March 8th, 2017, 06:31 AM
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OK, so I resurrected an older thread, so what. I had a pertinent question and I'm new in here. I have gotten a PM telling me to leave old threads to die, that I'll just piss off the old school crew, others in this thread complaining. I did the research, found the thread, DIDN"T ask a stupid Q without doing my homework and looking everywhere first... Do you have to $hit gold nickels in here to get some help?? I think I'll just go back to lurking in here and not try to be one of the good ole boys... Total shame because I've been in the fabrication biz for 30+ years and I have a lot of info to share. Thanks for the warm welcome. Have a nice day
The whole forum is dead I don't see a problem with it. Fuck em
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post #36 of 38 Old March 8th, 2017, 11:08 AM
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I have no issues with resurrecting threads. BUT if you have a question that is not specifically covered in the thread you resurrect or in the same aspect, it just seems you would get better results/response by posting your own topic, with a title that describes the question. Just trying to help people out. Heck. we're 6 months past when the original question that res'd the thread was posted, and I don't see any answer to the question... There is one post which answers the original questions, but doesn't answer the CARB EO question... no issues resurrecting threads, but as we saw here, no answers were gained.

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post #37 of 38 Old May 27th, 2017, 07:21 PM
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I ran 10# on 06 GT stock internals, upgraded clutch and driveshaft. it was a procharger sc-1 @470whp/416t. Some advice I wish I'd had is to not go with gears as low as mine @4.10, it makes 1st gear completely unusable. have you bought your kit yet? PM me offline if you want any details on a procharger, I pulled it after my daughter started driving this spring.
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post #38 of 38 Old June 3rd, 2017, 07:05 PM
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I see people running gt500 super chargers with modded super chargers doing around 10 give or take and they say they haven't had any problems but I wouldn't do more than that personally that why I'm building a 5.0 stroker and putting my smaller pulley ported supercharger on it
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