Under the valve covers - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #1 of 23 Old August 3rd, 2015, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Under the valve covers

Recently got my son an 06 GT that needs some work. It has 140k miles and was clearly neglected. The engine was missing under a load which new spark plugs cured(kudos to this forum form the plug change technique). Currently we are chasing the p0345, 349 cam potion sensor codes. I have replaced both sensors and the alternator but the codes still come up. I am going to pull the drivers side valve cover and and am looking for some input on what problems to look for.
It also has a failed(stripped gears) IMRC actuators which I have locked in the full open position until we can find a new actuator.
The car severely lacks power in the upper rpm range.
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 23 Old August 3rd, 2015, 02:43 PM
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You could just delete the CMCVs altogether and gain a few HP in the bargain. The lack of upper rpm power and cam codes could be due to a faulty solenoid that's preventing the phasers from retarding the cam timing (hence no "VTEC" effect).


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post #3 of 23 Old August 3rd, 2015, 02:51 PM
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While you have the valve cover off verify cam timing to rule out the cams jumping a tooth.

Also what alternator did you get? Our factory ones are crap and Ive heard to get ones from a crown vic because apparently theyre a lot better.


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post #4 of 23 Old August 3rd, 2015, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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Too late on the alternator, got the lifetime warrantied one from Advanced.
By looking at the cam phasers can you tell if there is a problem?
Can the solenoids be swapped from side to side?
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post #5 of 23 Old August 3rd, 2015, 05:46 PM
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what year Crown Vic has the same alternator?

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post #6 of 23 Old August 3rd, 2015, 05:53 PM
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Solenoids can be swapped side to side to rule them out, but usually you can see that it's broken. The screen will be torn up.

To check the timing you would have to pull the front cover as well. While the covers are off check out the cam phaser for visual defects. I had a phaser go out of me and caused an over retard CEL. I could spin the timing mark portion of it with my hand, entirely too soft.

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post #7 of 23 Old August 3rd, 2015, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svtwin73 View Post
what year Crown Vic has the same alternator?

Under the valve covers-imageuploadedbyag-free1438644865.218273.jpg

I took this screenshot a long time ago so I could swap mine out one day when mine went out. Now whether its correct Im not sure but nobody else in the thread fought him so hopefully hes right.


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post #8 of 23 Old August 3rd, 2015, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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Both solenoid's screens looked good, swapped them side to side for good measure.
Everything else seems ok, chains are tight, nothing seems loose or broken.
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post #9 of 23 Old August 3rd, 2015, 08:02 PM
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Have you checked the crank sensor? Cam sensors key of of this signal. It's a long shot. I'm betting it's in the wiring somewhere. Check all connector pins. Unwrap wire harness and follow the wires all the way. Double check your grounds too. Those codes refer to the signal and the circuit as opposed to the actual position of the cam. It's electrical. If all of that checks out I would have to suspect a malfunction within the PCM.


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post #10 of 23 Old August 3rd, 2015, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, I will take a look at the crank position sensor and the wiring.
Do you think this cam sensor issue would cause the lack of power at higher rpm?
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post #11 of 23 Old August 3rd, 2015, 11:16 PM
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Thanks, I will take a look at the crank position sensor and the wiring.
Do you think this cam sensor issue would cause the lack of power at higher rpm?
It might but I don't know no suppose if it can't determine where the cam is it will throw off the tune. Not real versed on variable cam timing. First car I've ever built with it.


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post #12 of 23 Old August 4th, 2015, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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Has anyone actually seen a case where the timing chain jumped out of time on a stock untouched engine?
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post #13 of 23 Old August 4th, 2015, 11:40 AM
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If the plungers were bad, yes.

07 gt, CMS cams, hurst, CAI/tuned, LT's, o/r h, m80's, FRPP mani, UDP, lowered with steeda 1.25/1.5, exedy mach 400/race flywheel, 1-pc DS, BMR upper/lowers, 4.10's, CHE brace with TL's, and a few other things that dont add up to much.
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post #14 of 23 Old August 11th, 2015, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, it's official. I have seen a motor first hand that has jumped out of time. The driver side cam is 1 tooth off. It was easy to see why with the timing chain cover off. The passenger side upper guide had broken loose from its upper mounting bolt and an 8" piece of the guide was just laying on top of the chain. The drivers side lower guide had some how stripped the lower mounting bolt, which also holds the oil pump on, out of the block. Needless to say there was a LOT of play in the chains!
So now I have to helicoil the bolt hole in the block and also account for some missing chain guide pieces.
I will head out tomorrow and get some parts on order, ie timing chain set, oil pump, water pump...
Can someone tell me if the oil pan can be taken off with the engine in the car? It looks like it can if I jack the motor slightly.
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post #15 of 23 Old August 11th, 2015, 09:10 PM
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I hear the oil pan can be removed with lifting the motor a bit.

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post #16 of 23 Old August 12th, 2015, 03:18 PM
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Jack the engine up by unbolting eginge mounts and jacking up on crank pulley, it's strong enough to hold. It can be done this way, but still very difficult

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post #17 of 23 Old August 12th, 2015, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jetdude View Post
Ok, it's official. I have seen a motor first hand that has jumped out of time. The driver side cam is 1 tooth off. It was easy to see why with the timing chain cover off. The passenger side upper guide had broken loose from its upper mounting bolt and an 8" piece of the guide was just laying on top of the chain. The drivers side lower guide had some how stripped the lower mounting bolt, which also holds the oil pump on, out of the block. Needless to say there was a LOT of play in the chains!
So now I have to helicoil the bolt hole in the block and also account for some missing chain guide pieces.
I will head out tomorrow and get some parts on order, ie timing chain set, oil pump, water pump...
Can someone tell me if the oil pan can be taken off with the engine in the car? It looks like it can if I jack the motor slightly.
Ive seen it happen too. Just not on these cars but on a Subaru.

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post #18 of 23 Old August 14th, 2015, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, timing chains, guides, tentioners and oil pump all changed. No more rattling on start up. Car runs great until 4k rpm and just stops pulling. Still has codes P0345 "Cam Position Sensor A Circuit Bank 2" and P0349 "Cam Position Sensor A Circuit Intermittent Bank 2". It's time to chase some wires. Does anyone have a wiring diagram that shows the cam position sensors to the computer? Do the Haynes manuals have descent schematics? My SCT tuner should be here any day. Will try to do some data logs then, hopefully something shows up..
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post #19 of 23 Old August 14th, 2015, 12:51 PM
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I will take a look at the Haynes manual when I get home and post pics if they are there.

07 gt, CMS cams, hurst, CAI/tuned, LT's, o/r h, m80's, FRPP mani, UDP, lowered with steeda 1.25/1.5, exedy mach 400/race flywheel, 1-pc DS, BMR upper/lowers, 4.10's, CHE brace with TL's, and a few other things that dont add up to much.
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post #20 of 23 Old August 14th, 2015, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Also, how would I know if a phaser was bad? It isn't noisy.
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