Get out your dead horse beatin' sticks...I want to talk about cams! - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #1 of 30 Old January 18th, 2016, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Get out your dead horse beatin' sticks...I want to talk about cams!

I know this has been hashed out a million times but I'm just going to start this out with three statements.

1. I know cams are supposed to be the last thing you do. I've seen that posted enough times by 07Boss to know that. But, I've reached a point with my car where anything else I want to do power-wise (supercharging or building an engine) will cost thousands of dollars, so a) I'm not yet sure if I'm willing to spend that much on this car, and b) even if I do it will be years down the road.

2. This car is my daily from April-ish to November-ish and I don't want to change gears (I have 3.55's) so I will need something that takes both of those factors into consideration.

3. One hurdle I have is that if I need to get any dyno tuning done, the closest place I know of with a dyno is at least 2 hours away, so that might be a problem. I of course can get tunes from Bama, I know not everyone is crazy about them but I've had fairly good luck with their tunes. I know they have tunes for Hot Rods and Comp cams but has anyone ever had them do a tune for somebody else's cams? Worst comes to worst I am open to ordering a tune from somewhere else if I have to.

Now, that being said I've been looking at the CMS Stage 1's and heard lots of great things about them. I might also be open to swapping the valve springs if it would be worth the added expense (I have a feeling on stock heads it probably wouldn't).

I'd like input from any of you that have cams though, whatever they may be. I feel like I have all the supporting mods in place to get good results from a cam swap.

2005 Mustang GT
CMS Stage 1 cams, Lito Tune, C&L Racer, CMDP, SR UDP, JBA LT's & catted H, FRPP Touring AB, Koni STR.T, BMR springs, J&M upper/mount, BMR lowers & brackets, J&M pb, Steeda Tri-Ax, Brembos
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post #2 of 30 Old January 18th, 2016, 02:59 PM
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If you're not wanting to change the gears then you are going to be left with relatively mild cams, so needing to change out springs or whatever is not going to be necessary. A tune would probably not be necessary either. I ran my comp NSR stage II's with no tune for months. It took a week or so to learn the idle but other than that they ran fine.

IMO I wouldn't want to spend the $. I mean without changing gears you are going to be limited on your choices and I'm not sure any of those would be worth the $600 or so.


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post #3 of 30 Old January 18th, 2016, 03:07 PM
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I know this has been hashed out a million times but I'm just going to start this out with three statements.

1. I know cams are supposed to be the last thing you do.

2. I don't want to change gears (I have 3.55's) so I will need something that takes both of those factors into consideration.

3. One hurdle I have is that if I need to get any dyno tuning done, the closest place I know of with a dyno is at least 2 hours away, so that might be a problem.
3 reasons you listed that you may not be ready to take on this endeavor. Cams are as involved if not more involved than most FI kits and with the necessary supporting mods can run almost the same cost. Dont cut corners, theyll cost you more in the long run.

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post #4 of 30 Old January 18th, 2016, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
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So a stage 1 wouldn't be happy with 3.55's? Some of the power curves I've seen don't look all that bad at lower RPM's. I'd just like to keep it somewhat highway friendly.

And like I said I feel like I do have all/most of the supporting mods. Tune, longtubes, CMDP's.

I kinda want the sound too. Not anything extreme but something to say it isn't stock.

For as many people that have cams on here it sure seems like a lot of you guys are quick to poo-poo them when somebody says they want them. This is probably the last engine-related thing I will do on this car for a long time because like I said, everything else requires cracking open the pocket vault to the tune of $2000 or more.

2005 Mustang GT
CMS Stage 1 cams, Lito Tune, C&L Racer, CMDP, SR UDP, JBA LT's & catted H, FRPP Touring AB, Koni STR.T, BMR springs, J&M upper/mount, BMR lowers & brackets, J&M pb, Steeda Tri-Ax, Brembos
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post #5 of 30 Old January 18th, 2016, 03:38 PM
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So a stage 1 wouldn't be happy with 3.55's? Some of the power curves I've seen don't look all that bad at lower RPM's. I'd just like to keep it somewhat highway friendly.

And like I said I feel like I do have all/most of the supporting mods. Tune, longtubes, CMDP's.

I kinda want the sound too. Not anything extreme but something to say it isn't stock.

For as many people that have cams on here it sure seems like a lot of you guys are quick to poo-poo them when somebody says they want them. This is probably the last engine-related thing I will do on this car for a long time because like I said, everything else requires cracking open the pocket vault to the tune of $2000 or more.

But in this case you're not willing to change gears. Any cam is going to narrow up and move your power band. And the bigger you go the greater the change. If you were willing to change gears I would say go for it and go with either comp nsr II's or the CMS I's. The CMS stage I's suggest 3.73 gears and so does the comp stage II's. The only cams I would even thinking about running with stock gears is the comp stage I's but that is neither going to net you much power or even sound too much different from stock.

What can we do do convince you to swap gears?


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post #6 of 30 Old January 18th, 2016, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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But the difference between 3.55's and 3.73's is negligible at best, so...?

I just never had any desire to swap gears. I'd like to keep the RPM's where they are on the highway and first gear is short enough already.

2005 Mustang GT
CMS Stage 1 cams, Lito Tune, C&L Racer, CMDP, SR UDP, JBA LT's & catted H, FRPP Touring AB, Koni STR.T, BMR springs, J&M upper/mount, BMR lowers & brackets, J&M pb, Steeda Tri-Ax, Brembos
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post #7 of 30 Old January 18th, 2016, 08:28 PM
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You wouldn't really be getting your bang for your buck with such a mild cam. Even hotrods and the like need more gear to be driveable.

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post #8 of 30 Old January 18th, 2016, 08:44 PM
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355 with cams would suck

---------- Post added at 08:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 PM ----------

410 cams and long tubes = good combo

.

tuned by performance dyno 496 rwhp 432 rwtq
July 2013 rotm winner
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post #9 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghunt View Post
I know this has been hashed out a million times but I'm just going to start this out with three statements.

1. I know cams are supposed to be the last thing you do. I've seen that posted enough times by 07Boss to know that. But, I've reached a point with my car where anything else I want to do power-wise (supercharging or building an engine) will cost thousands of dollars, so a) I'm not yet sure if I'm willing to spend that much on this car, and b) even if I do it will be years down the road.

2. This car is my daily from April-ish to November-ish and I don't want to change gears (I have 3.55's) so I will need something that takes both of those factors into consideration.

3. One hurdle I have is that if I need to get any dyno tuning done, the closest place I know of with a dyno is at least 2 hours away, so that might be a problem. I of course can get tunes from Bama, I know not everyone is crazy about them but I've had fairly good luck with their tunes. I know they have tunes for Hot Rods and Comp cams but has anyone ever had them do a tune for somebody else's cams? Worst comes to worst I am open to ordering a tune from somewhere else if I have to.
1. Cams are going to cost you around $750 so they ain't cheap. You'll also need new cam phaser bolts (another $50).
2. Installation time is at least 1/2 a day. If you're paying someone else to do it, factor in at least another $300.
3. While the Ford Hot Rod cams, Brenspeed Detroit Rockers, and Comp NSR Stage 2 cams don't require a tune, they'll perform better with one. Brenspeed can supply you with an e-mail tune at a cost of around $100.

Total cost will be near $1000 even with a self-install (you'll need a timing chain wedge) so ask yourself if it's worth the expense for a 20-30rwhp gain with all the extra power only coming from 4700rpm upwards.


2006 GT Deluxe - 5MT - 12.52 @ 109.33
311rwhp 328rwtq with stage 1 bolt-ons
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post #10 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 12:15 AM
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Yea i ran 373s witb the comp cam nsr stage 2s. They sucked. I just recently put 430s in and much more happy. Change gears
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post #11 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 02:26 AM
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Change gears
That's another cost to consider when you're contemplating a cam swap.
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post #12 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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Alright then, no cams it is I guess. God nothing outside of bolt-ons is even affordable for this damn car.

2005 Mustang GT
CMS Stage 1 cams, Lito Tune, C&L Racer, CMDP, SR UDP, JBA LT's & catted H, FRPP Touring AB, Koni STR.T, BMR springs, J&M upper/mount, BMR lowers & brackets, J&M pb, Steeda Tri-Ax, Brembos
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post #13 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 09:43 AM
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I did my cams for less then 450.
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post #14 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 09:54 AM
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Alright then, no cams it is I guess. God nothing outside of bolt-ons is even affordable for this damn car.
You car already has a list of nice mods. Just enjoy it for what it is.
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post #15 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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I did my cams for less then 450.
How? I can only assume used cams, I'd buy used ones if I could find any.

And yes I know the car has a fair bit done but I always like to have projects going on, especially during the winter when it's just sitting and I can't drive it.

So I've found other threads where people said they had CMS Stage 1's with 3.73's and their car drove great. I can't imagine there would be that much of a difference between 3.55's and 3.73's in that regard. I suppose I wouldn't be totally opposed to gears if it didn't cost so much to have them installed, and I don't think that's something I would want to attempt myself.

2005 Mustang GT
CMS Stage 1 cams, Lito Tune, C&L Racer, CMDP, SR UDP, JBA LT's & catted H, FRPP Touring AB, Koni STR.T, BMR springs, J&M upper/mount, BMR lowers & brackets, J&M pb, Steeda Tri-Ax, Brembos
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post #16 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 12:15 PM
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I love my cms cams....but I have 4.10's. Depends who does the tuning though. Bama could not get it to work, but lito had zero trouble. Car will still drive with 3.55's ok.

07 gt, CMS cams, hurst, CAI/tuned, LT's, o/r h, m80's, FRPP mani, UDP, lowered with steeda 1.25/1.5, exedy mach 400/race flywheel, 1-pc DS, BMR upper/lowers, 4.10's, CHE brace with TL's, and a few other things that dont add up to much.
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post #17 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 12:43 PM
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You can still get the cams and you might not mind how they feel. Ultimately it is up to you and what you feel/think. I mean like you said the difference between 3.55's and 3.73's is pretty small and might not be that big of a deal for you. Were just telling you that to get the most out of them you would need to swap gears. You having a stick means that you can yourself make the driving adjustments you need to to keep the rpms up to keep you in the cams effective range. But on that note you also seem to not want to wind up the motor a bit.

IMO these motors run better up in the rpm's, well most motor do, but it just seems like these things are happy cruising around at 3K rpm's. My car makes max torque right around 3600-4000. My car cruises right at 2800-3000 on the freeway all day long. My shift points are set really late. I don't go into 5th gear until at least 65-70 mph.

Anyways, if you don't mind the little bit of sluggishness down low it still might be worth it. For most of us we just wouldn't go that route and ultimately you are the one driving it, not us.


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post #18 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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So I have to ask, you guys with 5 speeds and 4.10's, what RPM's are you turning at 75 mph in 5th gear?

2005 Mustang GT
CMS Stage 1 cams, Lito Tune, C&L Racer, CMDP, SR UDP, JBA LT's & catted H, FRPP Touring AB, Koni STR.T, BMR springs, J&M upper/mount, BMR lowers & brackets, J&M pb, Steeda Tri-Ax, Brembos
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post #19 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 03:26 PM
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I have 4.56's and hit 2500rpm @ 65mph with my 26" race tires on. I average 26+ mpg driving to the track (180 miles round trip). First gear is not too short, I think 4.56's are just about perfect...

gears are quiet, exhaust is quiet (frpp shorty headers, oem h-pipe with cats, frpp gta mufflers), no complaints at all - wish I would've done it sooner (had 4.10's for several years)

2005 GT, N/A 302rwhp/317rwtq, 3500 lbs
12.095 @ 111.08, 1.576 60'
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post #20 of 30 Old January 19th, 2016, 03:40 PM
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Roughly 2200-50 in 5th at 75mph on a 27" tire.

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