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  Topic Review (Newest First)
July 27th, 2015 06:57 PM
evil02gt I will be over 500rwhp so I guess I should pin and weld.
July 27th, 2015 04:09 PM
CalBoy101 Yikes, the guy in the thread below (Travis) had problems with the TFS crank gears moving around when he only used one pin.

Its an aggressive NA build with 125 lb springs and higher RPMs.

400HP 2V...Almost - Page 3 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
July 27th, 2015 02:02 PM
CalBoy101 Imbalance with the pins are welds isn't an issue if they are evenly spaced, plus the diameter of the circle of welds and pins is so small that they wouldn't effect the balance even if they weren't evenly spaced.

I was wrong about TFS recommending to weld or pin the gears, what they say is when using these gears on high HP builds they recommend having the crank machined for a full length key.

That wasn't an option for me so I welded and pinned.
July 27th, 2015 01:07 AM
evil02gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k02 View Post
Welding TFS crank gears? - Modular Revolution Forums
Two really really smart modular guys in this thread.
Great read! I had not thought about imbalance until I read that thread. I am buying the crank gears from Crimson. Now I have to decide if I am going to tack and pin them.
July 26th, 2015 11:24 PM
y2k02 Welding TFS crank gears? - Modular Revolution Forums
Two really really smart modular guys in this thread.
July 26th, 2015 10:00 PM
CalBoy101 I know guys have gotten away not welding or pinning the gears but the key in the crank isn't engaged in the crank under the back gear so under heavy load (high RPM, heavier springs) it can snap that part of the key off.
In the instructions that come with the gears TFS recommends welding or pinning them.

Its cheap insurance because if it does snap your engine is likely a goner.

I ended up using 1/8" OD 7/8" long hardened steel pins on my gears, this length ends up being just right. The gears drill pretty easily but you at least need a drill press.

If I hadn't welded them also I might have gone thicker on the pin size but since I had welds in 4 spots I figured three 1/8" pins spaced evenly would be enough, each pin has a shear strength of around 1300 lbs.

The reason I pinned them after welding them is the welds looked so-so, I used a tig but ended up with some surface cracking, I guess because of the alloy type used on the gears.

If I had gone with just tack welds I probably would have used 4 evenly spaced pins instead of 3.

I had to buy a box of 100 of these pins which I'll never use up so if anybody wants 4 pins PM me your mailing address and I'll send them to you in a letter envelope.
July 26th, 2015 08:36 PM
y2k02 I used to use the tf gears. They were not pinned or welded. Never had a issue with them. Now I use the mmr adjustable cam gears without issue.
July 26th, 2015 08:24 PM
evil02gt I can weld and pin the gears. Probably going to go that route.
July 26th, 2015 08:04 PM
Sonic 02 Having a junk spare crank is very helpful when welding crank gears
July 26th, 2015 06:54 PM
CalBoy101 If you have a way to weld or pin the cranks gears I'd go that way but if that's going to be a big hassle I'd go with adjustable cam gears.

I think the only good way to pin the cranks gears is to at least tack weld them while they are on the crank hub first, then take them off and drill the holes for the pins.

A mig welder would be fine for that but if you don't have one then that's a deal killer on the crank gears.
July 26th, 2015 08:10 AM
evil02gt I am still torn. I have watched videos and read articles and still can't decide.
July 25th, 2015 06:11 PM
Sonic 02 Price on cam gears is more expensive . Somebody else can chime in on this but I think the cam gears give more adjustability.
July 25th, 2015 05:37 PM
evil02gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalBoy101 View Post
I think there are pluses and minuses to the adjustable cam gears.

On the plus side its definitely quicker and easier and they can be reset for different cams down the line.

On the negative side they weigh more (probably not a big deal) and at least with the early versions there were some problems with them losing adjustment but I'm assuming that's been sorted out by now.

There are 2 adjustable sets I know about, the TFS ones and Cloyes also makes a set, I haven't used either so hopefully someone will chime in on which ones are better.

The TFS crank gears are simpler but the welding or pinning takes some extra effort.

I tried welding mine first but they are made out an alloy that doesn't weld so hot (at least with my so-so welding skills) and since the welds weren't great I pinned them also.

I used three 1/8" hardened pins, the gears do drill pretty well for the pins.

If you haven't done this timing before here's a pretty good video on the basic process:

How to degree the cams on the Ford 4.6L 2V SOHC. - YouTube

Here's an example using TFS crank gears (he uses the Cloyes gears also $$$) TCCoA Forums

TFS really should supply some pins and instructions on how to use them with the gears.

This is my first build and everything I do is a learning process. I have to admit the cam install and Timi g is kind of intimidating. With all of the stuff I have done to the car I dread to see what bugs I have to work out.
July 25th, 2015 05:04 PM
CalBoy101 I think there are pluses and minuses to the adjustable cam gears.

On the plus side its definitely quicker and easier and they can be reset for different cams down the line.

On the negative side they weigh more (probably not a big deal) and at least with the early versions there were some problems with them losing adjustment but I'm assuming that's been sorted out by now.

There are 2 adjustable sets I know about, the TFS ones and Cloyes also makes a set, I haven't used either so hopefully someone will chime in on which ones are better.

The TFS crank gears are simpler but the welding or pinning takes some extra effort.

I tried welding mine first but they are made out an alloy that doesn't weld so hot (at least with my so-so welding skills) and since the welds weren't great I pinned them also.

I used three 1/8" hardened pins, the gears do drill pretty well for the pins.

If you haven't done this timing before here's a pretty good video on the basic process:


Here's an example using TFS crank gears (he uses the Cloyes gears also $$$) TCCoA Forums

TFS really should supply some pins and instructions on how to use them with the gears.
July 25th, 2015 04:36 PM
evil02gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic 02 View Post
I went with cam gears this time around because I got sick of buy new crank gears every time I get new cams.
Do you see any disadvantages to using cam gears? My cams will be in this engine until I pull it and replace it with my forged setup.
July 25th, 2015 02:35 PM
Sonic 02 I went with cam gears this time around because I got sick of buy new crank gears every time I get new cams.
July 25th, 2015 02:21 PM
evil02gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson View Post
If you're interested I'll probably have a set of tfs crank gears for sale by the end of the weekend. No miles on them, just used for a mock up. Pm me if interested.
Sent you a pm.
July 25th, 2015 01:40 PM
WickedSnake00
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalBoy101 View Post
I'm doing the timing on my build right now.

I like the TFS adjustable crank gears, they get you typically within 1 degree of where you want to be.

You can then use the slop in the keyway of the stock gears, basically rotating them one way or the other before tightening them, this gets you a little more than +/- 1/2 degree which is usually enough to get the timing dialed in. If not you can grind the keyway tab on the gear a little smaller, using something like a dremel or die grinder with a small carbide or diamond rotary tip.

The stock gears are really well made and are nicely hardened, I doubt the aftermarket gears are made as well.

The only rub on the TFS crank gears is they need to either be welded or pinned together once you get your setting because the factory crank key isn't full strength on the end close to the crank shoulder.

One thing I learned the hard way, some guys take a used lifter and take the spring out and use it as is or weld it and use it during the timing.

The extra slop from this approach gives you some error in your timing measurement, you need to use one of adjustable lifters (TFS/Summit sells a kit with one of these) and adjust it so you have zero lash on the rocker before making the measurements.

For getting your top dead center I like the Crane brass tool, Crane 99412-1. This will screw pretty far into the chamber, which helps on a 2v because of the spark plug being angled and at the side.

I would take the rockers in that cylinder (either 1 or 6) out though when using this stop as it sticks in far enough that a valve might hit it if the rockers are in.

Re your valve springs, what max boost and RPM are you planning to run?
This is pretty much everything I did.

I want to say my lifter and piston stop were Comp cams though. I'd also note that the lifter was a solid lifter, not adjustable. Works just the same, but just an aluminum piece that prevents any movement during measurement.
July 25th, 2015 01:10 PM
Crimson If you're interested I'll probably have a set of tfs crank gears for sale by the end of the weekend. No miles on them, just used for a mock up. Pm me if interested.
July 25th, 2015 01:07 PM
evil02gt Thanks Calboy!
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