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  Topic Review (Newest First)
October 16th, 2015 07:08 PM
CJackson Turbo are junk!!!


[color=gray]Sent from [url=http://www.autoguide.com/mobile]😣😤nbj vyx6,;dtzy could have u. Ovh77,😣😃🔠😳
October 16th, 2015 06:32 PM
Scott2001GT I remember these discussions 6-7 years ago on here. Weird how somethings don't die.
October 16th, 2015 01:39 PM
blown 02 There is no wrong choice here. Both kits will get the job done. If you want max power out of your built motor/trans car then go big turbo. If you want great power out of you weekends street car go smaller turbo, centri or roots. Both kits are reliable when put together and installed correctly. You just have more parts to install with a turbo kit and slightly more things to troubleshoot if something fail. You only have a cold side with centri and roots supercharger. You bring the entire exhaust system into play with a turbo kit.
October 16th, 2015 10:16 AM
mellis After shredding belts with my vortech countless times, and some at the track i got extremely sick of searching alignment issues, which are next to impossible to solve, i switched to an on3 kit. The miles and miles of piping people are talking about? lol. Same amount as my vortech kit pretty much. The headers face forward so its super easy to hook up. Exhaust leaks, ok maybe? Easy to solve with some copper RTV in-between the vbands. THEY ARE TOO HOT!.... wrap the hotside and put a blanket on the turbo, solves that. We can go back and forth all day and night about something that can go wrong with a certain part. If its set up correctly it will work. Parts will fail, but that's the name of the game.

#thattorquetho
October 16th, 2015 08:54 AM
sneaky98gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey View Post
I am curious if the OP is asking from the perspective of going down the track. I have always looked at it from the typical pros/cons of turbo v. supercharger.. ie lag vs. parasitic loss. I came across a article that talked about manual cars preferring supercharger and auto preferring turbo due to more heat (thus more boos) being built up on turbos under load ie: footbrake or transbrake and less time between shifts for boost to fall off.

I am interested as well, so perhaps someone with experience of having both on a gear-jammer can give an opinion. My car is a 5 speed as well and I am trying to decide whether or not I want to keep it, or switch to an auto... though boost type isn't really going to make my decision, it is a factor in the grand scheme.
Much of the problem with turbos on manuals is that people tend to get too big and/or too cheap of a turbo. If it's slow to spool at all, it's going to hurt a manual car at the track, both between shifts and getting it off the line. A good billet wheel, ball bearing Precision (or similar) turbo at a 62 or maybe 67 mm size will make plenty of power for 99% of guys out there, and will spool virtually instantaneously. Learn to slip the clutch off the line, and shift it pretty hard, and a manual car will run quite well. But if you opt to run a cast wheel, journal bearing 76 mm On3 turbo, be prepared to have a car that makes great peak power and traps great, but won't run good ETs because it's so laggy.

I know several local guys running in the 10s on turbo cars, and they're all running relatively small turbos.
October 16th, 2015 01:44 AM
Whiskey I am curious if the OP is asking from the perspective of going down the track. I have always looked at it from the typical pros/cons of turbo v. supercharger.. ie lag vs. parasitic loss. I came across a article that talked about manual cars preferring supercharger and auto preferring turbo due to more heat (thus more boos) being built up on turbos under load ie: footbrake or transbrake and less time between shifts for boost to fall off.

I am interested as well, so perhaps someone with experience of having both on a gear-jammer can give an opinion. My car is a 5 speed as well and I am trying to decide whether or not I want to keep it, or switch to an auto... though boost type isn't really going to make my decision, it is a factor in the grand scheme.
October 16th, 2015 12:33 AM
T-Lee. 30 Op plan out your goals for the car and whatever reputable shop you plan on taking your car to ask them their opinion on the subject based off of how far you plan on going with your personal ride. Of course that's not saying discount everything you heard in here but talk to the dyno/tuning shop(s) you plan on taking your car to and see what they tell you based off of your goals. Gl.
October 15th, 2015 05:28 PM
SSG Pate
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaky98gt View Post
As I said, anecdotal evidence. Just my personal experience. If I knew you, I'd say "all but one of the people I know....".

Here in NC, there's a visual inspection for the emissions stuff like EGR, evap system, cats, etc. So even if you are able to work it out via the tune and/or electrically, they can still physically see it isn't there. PITA.



There is a massive, MASSIVE difference in an OEM setup that's been produced tens or hundreds of thousands of times, and an aftermarket kit that may have sold a few thousand.

Go talk to anyone with a diesel truck or Ecoboost car that has swapped their OEM turbo for an aftermarket one, and I'd put money that it won't last a quarter as long as the stock one would.



Very few?

Buick LeSabres, Regals, and Rivieras
Jaguar XJRs and XKRs
Pontiac Bonnevilles and Gran Prixs
Nissan Frontiers and Xterras
Cobras and Lightings
Chevy Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS, Cobalt SS
Some of the Mercedes C-Class (Kompressors?), I believe
Mini Coopers

Just off the top of my head.

Sure, there's plenty of turbo cars, too. Supras, GSXs, Cyclones, and Talons come to mind. But Eaton has put a many a roots blower on production cars.

You need to go back and do some more research about how many cars are really running around out there on turbos that are reliable. If you truly believe just swapping out a factory turbo for a BETTER aftermarket one makes it unreliable then that just shows how much you dont know about what your talking about. Almost every single diesel truck FOR YEARS is turbo with all their exhaust and dont have issues even after putting a more efficient unit on them.
more then half the cars produced today are TURBO so they are very reliable..
October 15th, 2015 04:21 PM
Oiljunkie on3 and run around 8psi or so.

then when you can afford to build a short block you can up the boost.

then when you want more you can start customizing the on3 kit, bigger IC, bigger turbo, bigger down pipe.

then when you really want to get wild heads, cams and your making more power and no playing with pulleys and belts.

However if you don't plan on going far and you just want a budget 400HP then get a used centri kit.
October 15th, 2015 09:28 AM
maxgst From personal experience these are the problems I had with my turbo eclipse:

-I used an aftermarket header that whenever it got really got it would expand, and after it cooled back down it would develop exhaust leaks where it connects to the head, or where it connected to the turbo. I ended up replacing the turbo/manifold gasket 3 times and the manifold/head gasket 4 times.
-One of the oil lines from the turbo to oil pan cracked, leaked everywhere
-The heat from the turbo burnt up two alternators
-Intercooler piping that came with the car blew couplers at least ten times before I upgraded
-BOV line dry rotted and started leaking
-And the last straw was then the turbo blew right before selling the car haha. The turbo was a 16g which is an updated turbo from what comes in the evos.

Moral of the story: use quality parts the first time around and avoid a lot of problems.
October 15th, 2015 01:11 AM
sneaky98gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAzombie View Post
I would not call my car a loud, piecemeal heap by a long shot.
As I said, anecdotal evidence. Just my personal experience. If I knew you, I'd say "all but one of the people I know....".

Here in NC, there's a visual inspection for the emissions stuff like EGR, evap system, cats, etc. So even if you are able to work it out via the tune and/or electrically, they can still physically see it isn't there. PITA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSG Pate View Post
Wow there is all kinds of straight up BS in here...

Turbos are reliable which is why they now sit in almost every ford car made now ECOBOOST, BMW VW, KIAs, BMW's, and even some new Chevrolet, Lexus ETC are kicking them off.
There is a massive, MASSIVE difference in an OEM setup that's been produced tens or hundreds of thousands of times, and an aftermarket kit that may have sold a few thousand.

Go talk to anyone with a diesel truck or Ecoboost car that has swapped their OEM turbo for an aftermarket one, and I'd put money that it won't last a quarter as long as the stock one would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR View Post
Don't use cheap Chinese parts and you won't have a problem. I've had my turbo setup for 8 years without an issue.

I don't know where you're getting your info on PD blowers. Very few cars had them. There were way more cars rolling off the assembly lines with turbos than PDs in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s. That number has only grown in recent years.
Very few?

Buick LeSabres, Regals, and Rivieras
Jaguar XJRs and XKRs
Pontiac Bonnevilles and Gran Prixs
Nissan Frontiers and Xterras
Cobras and Lightings
Chevy Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS, Cobalt SS
Some of the Mercedes C-Class (Kompressors?), I believe
Mini Coopers

Just off the top of my head.

Sure, there's plenty of turbo cars, too. Supras, GSXs, Cyclones, and Talons come to mind. But Eaton has put a many a roots blower on production cars.
October 14th, 2015 09:56 PM
RDY4WAR
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaky98gt View Post
It's got about 5 times as many places that exhaust can leak; you've got a wastegate to worry about functioning properly; you've got additional oil lines to worry about working correctly and/or leaking; you've got the heat to worry about and how it might affect nearby components; etc. etc. etc. And generally speaking, I'd say these cheap Chinese turbos won't come close to lasting as long. I looked around a while back when I was considering a turbo, to try and find someone who had run any aftermarket turbo for 50, 75, 100,000+ miles, like virtually every Eaton ever made has or will run. Never found any.

I'll agree that it's not much of a deal, especially to someone who works on their own cars and a little maintenance isn't a problem, like you or me. But it absolutely is less reliable than a supercharger. And while I'm sure there are exceptions out there, I don't know a single person who daily drives their turbo Mustang because they spend more time working on it than driving it. The ones who do drive at least some on the street have a loud, piecemeal, thrown-together heap with exhaust leaks everywhere, and can't pass inspections because they don't have the EGR, cats, or mufflers. Anecdotal evidence, I know..., but that's my experience with the dozen or so people I know who have turbo Mustangs.

The people I know who DD supercharged cars? A lot.

10-15 years ago, before fuel economy was so important, positive displacement superchargers were king from OEMs, not turbos. And even today, turbo setups on 'V' motors other than trucks where they have plenty of space for them are very uncommon. Sure, they exist (Mercedes AMG and BMW M5 / M6 come to mind), but outside of a $75k+ price tag, you're gonna find TVS blowers pretty much always.
Don't use cheap Chinese parts and you won't have a problem. I've had my turbo setup for 8 years without an issue.

I don't know where you're getting your info on PD blowers. Very few cars had them. There were way more cars rolling off the assembly lines with turbos than PDs in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s. That number has only grown in recent years.
October 14th, 2015 09:42 PM
SSG Pate For a stock motor car do a centri such as a Vortech or pro charger they are Less complicated and it will more then blow up your motor without some of the extra expenses.


Wow there is all kinds of straight up BS in here...



Turbos are reliable which is why they now sit in almost every ford car made now ECOBOOST, BMW VW, KIAs, BMW's, and even some new Chevrolet, Lexus ETC are kicking them off.
October 14th, 2015 09:16 PM
Scott2001GT Roots blowers have never dominated the market ever. Do it right and you won't have issues with either boosted application.
October 14th, 2015 08:24 PM
blown 02 In it's simplest form a supercharger is less complicated than a turbo setup. You have less part to install, less places for leaks (only a intake side) and for a person would doesn't work on cars cheaper to pay for install. Yes we all know that a turbo is going to make more power than a supercharger (equally sized and boosted) and both are capable of destroying a stock motor.

I think the OP need to read up more on what supercharger and turbo do or how they performs and figure out what he really want the car to do.
October 14th, 2015 07:46 PM
BAzombie
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaky98gt View Post
I don't know a single person who daily drives their turbo Mustang because they spend more time working on it than driving it. The ones who do drive at least some on the street have a loud, piecemeal, thrown-together heap with exhaust leaks everywhere, and can't pass inspections because they don't have the EGR, cats, or mufflers.
I have 2 1/2 years (April-Oct) on my On3 kit. 16K miles. No problems with inspection either. I am allowed 2 N/A's for insp here in NY though.

I would not call my car a loud, piecemeal heap by a long shot.
October 14th, 2015 02:59 PM
machery
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaky98gt View Post
It's got about 5 times as many places that exhaust can leak; you've got a wastegate to worry about functioning properly; you've got additional oil lines to worry about working correctly and/or leaking; you've got the heat to worry about and how it might affect nearby components; etc. etc. etc. And generally speaking, I'd say these cheap Chinese turbos won't come close to lasting as long. I looked around a while back when I was considering a turbo, to try and find someone who had run any aftermarket turbo for 50, 75, 100,000+ miles, like virtually every Eaton ever made has or will run. Never found any.

I'll agree that it's not much of a deal, especially to someone who works on their own cars and a little maintenance isn't a problem, like you or me. But it absolutely is less reliable than a supercharger. And while I'm sure there are exceptions out there, I don't know a single person who daily drives their turbo Mustang because they spend more time working on it than driving it. The ones who do drive at least some on the street have a loud, piecemeal, thrown-together heap with exhaust leaks everywhere, and can't pass inspections because they don't have the EGR, cats, or mufflers. Anecdotal evidence, I know..., but that's my experience with the dozen or so people I know who have turbo Mustangs.

The people I know who DD supercharged cars? A lot.

10-15 years ago, before fuel economy was so important, positive displacement superchargers were king from OEMs, not turbos. And even today, turbo setups on 'V' motors other than trucks where they have plenty of space for them are very uncommon. Sure, they exist (Mercedes AMG and BMW M5 / M6 come to mind), but outside of a $75k+ price tag, you're gonna find TVS blowers pretty much always.
You make a good point
October 14th, 2015 02:36 PM
sneaky98gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott2001GT View Post
How is a turbo unreliable? Pretty sure more manufacturer cars are turbo and not centrifugal. Get a GEN 2 on3 kit and be done.
It's got about 5 times as many places that exhaust can leak; you've got a wastegate to worry about functioning properly; you've got additional oil lines to worry about working correctly and/or leaking; you've got the heat to worry about and how it might affect nearby components; etc. etc. etc. And generally speaking, I'd say these cheap Chinese turbos won't come close to lasting as long. I looked around a while back when I was considering a turbo, to try and find someone who had run any aftermarket turbo for 50, 75, 100,000+ miles, like virtually every Eaton ever made has or will run. Never found any.

I'll agree that it's not much of a deal, especially to someone who works on their own cars and a little maintenance isn't a problem, like you or me. But it absolutely is less reliable than a supercharger. And while I'm sure there are exceptions out there, I don't know a single person who daily drives their turbo Mustang because they spend more time working on it than driving it. The ones who do drive at least some on the street have a loud, piecemeal, thrown-together heap with exhaust leaks everywhere, and can't pass inspections because they don't have the EGR, cats, or mufflers. Anecdotal evidence, I know..., but that's my experience with the dozen or so people I know who have turbo Mustangs.

The people I know who DD supercharged cars? A lot.

10-15 years ago, before fuel economy was so important, positive displacement superchargers were king from OEMs, not turbos. And even today, turbo setups on 'V' motors other than trucks where they have plenty of space for them are very uncommon. Sure, they exist (Mercedes AMG and BMW M5 / M6 come to mind), but outside of a $75k+ price tag, you're gonna find TVS blowers pretty much always.
October 14th, 2015 01:47 PM
maxgst
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott2001GT View Post
How is a turbo unreliable? Pretty sure more manufacturer cars are turbo and not centrifugal. Get a GEN 2 on3 kit and be done.
Its simply more unreliable because it consists of more parts, and more things that can go wrong. There are lot of potential places for exhaust leaks, all that extra exhaust pipe under the hood can lead to problems like rising coolant temps, burnt alternators (happened a lot to my eclipse), BOVs can leak, waste-gates wear out over time (ask an bmw n54 owner)... everything else is pretty much the same as a supercharger kit.
October 14th, 2015 01:37 PM
machery Following
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