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post #21 of 633 Old December 14th, 2012, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by eleanor08 View Post
Our society is wrong... Everyone, myself included..


its is society that is wrong but these classes would be able to sort out the good from bad. plus you have to remember all the ppl that play those games and watch those shows and movie that show signs of intelligence and know right from wrong with guns are the ones that get hurt by people like guy from ct...they will find some new law to punish ppl based on it. i think if we have these classes those ppl wouldnt pass cause i think they should make it a moral choice on some questions that make an automatic fail.

plus eleanor dont say you are in the wrong cause it seems you know the value of the gun.


+1 to whiskey on his point about the current generation. im part of it and ive seen way to many kids get comforted to where ppl said it wasnt there fault. i grew up getting "spanked" and told if i messed up it was my fault and learn to find a way to fix it. either messing up a yard care by replacing plants to paying for my own vehicles so i would value them and fix them. kids these days are worse imo.

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post #22 of 633 Old December 14th, 2012, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Lee. 30 View Post
No matter what ppl will get their hands on guns illegally even if they are criminals, under aged etc.. imo. I have owned a few guns myself for years and have had PLENTY of training with them and even served as a unit armorer for 2 years while I was at FT Bragg. I myself keep my weapons at the house to protect my family. I sometimes want to get a ccw but I personally know that I don't have the longest fuse(and other diagnosed mental issues) and I don't think it would be wise for me to have a ccw so I have chosen myself not to get one "self gun control". When I travel cross country I keep one in the trunk though just in case of a break down. Even though I have plenty of knowledge on weapons, weapons training, and have been in situations before where I have had to discharge my weapon(over seas). I still choose not to carry a gun on my person. Maybe starting on the High School level they need to start educating kids on self gun control and the dangers of those killing tools that also serve other purposes.

It may take a little while at a gun shop or a pawn shop with the background check to get a gun and that varies by State. But to those of you that have been to those gun shows there is an ease of access there to guns and almost any nut or criminal can walk in there and walk out of there with quite a few guns.
I couldnt agree more with all of this, I dont carry my gun for the same reason lol

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post #23 of 633 Old December 14th, 2012, 05:36 PM
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Gun control? Education, preventing known violent criminals to own, weapon holstered, safety on.

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post #24 of 633 Old December 14th, 2012, 08:02 PM
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Gun Control to me is knowing how to aim for the head instead of the leg.

All states that have no gun control laws at all * last time I checked Maryland was one of them * have the absolute lowest crime rate that involve guns. Its because people aren't stupid. They know ANYONE could have a gun hidden and read to go. I like the fact that at the Texas Capital you can walk in, show your CC licence, and go through wihtout going through metal detectors and being search...etc etc while the Schools that go on tour their and anyone else not armed have to go through the process. It works well because who wouldn't shoot someone that is harming children, honestly.

I am for guns because I know with the right guidance and training, people can be effective, yet mature.

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post #25 of 633 Old December 14th, 2012, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 1BDSTNG View Post
I'm not going to get into this on the wrong thread so I just want to know your stance on gun control.
I have guns and I think the American people should have them. If you take away guns from law abiding citizens then we will be ducks on a pond.
How am I supposed to protect my family in the event of a break in? Call the police? What if I going to the movies with my family and someone tries to take/harm my wife and child. I know how I'll stop it. 2 in the chest, 1 in the head.
I have a shotgun passed down to me from my Father. No other guns. I've been known to go to a shooting range with friends and partake in target practice. I don't believe in gun control. Mao did, as did Stalin and Hitler. I don't consider myself a citizen of a totalitarian state (yet), so I believe in the individual right to own a weapon. I will add that I am lukewarm with regard to the constitution and opposed to the Bill of rights. I don't see the original ten amendments (at least 9 of them anyway) as anything other than lawyer loopholes to distract politicians and the average man from the topic of slavery.

Protect yourself by all means, but beware of placing your trust in the freedom to do so in the 2nd amendment.
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post #26 of 633 Old December 14th, 2012, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by KrimsonKnight View Post
plus eleanor dont say you are in the wrong cause it seems you know the value of the gun.
Thank you, I was referring to the fact that I watch the Walking Dead and find the show entertaining (maybe not this season...), but I wouldn't want my son (3 months old) watching, or learning about the show. I watch it and get a kick out of it, and then I stop look at it from his point of view (or a young child) and see people killing other people with guns, hammers, shovels, you name it.. I wouldn't want him to understand what is happening, and think its ok to "play" zombie.

Kind of like when you see kids play fighting, like there acting out what they see on TV. When I see that it makes me want to move out to the woods, and throw away my TV.. I want my son to enjoy and learn about the out doors, and learn values in life. Not play video games, and learn about fighting and stuff like that. I find it sad that we hardly look at the stars anymore, I find it sad that the only consolation I can pick out is Orion.. I want my son to be able to school me on the stars some day.. And at this rate, he's not going to learn it from his dad..

Sorry got off track there..

I plan to combat these type of horrible senseless acts of violence with education and nurturing to my son. Tell him, and SHOW him whats right, whats wrong, teach him HONOR... And I WILL be showing him how to handle and respect weapons, not to be afraid of them, but to RESPECT them, and LIFE..

Thats how I define gun control..

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post #27 of 633 Old December 14th, 2012, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by eleanor08 View Post
Thank you, I was referring to the fact that I watch the Walking Dead and find the show entertaining (maybe not this season...), but I wouldn't want my son (3 months old) watching, or learning about the show. I watch it and get a kick out of it, and then I stop look at it from his point of view (or a young child) and see people killing other people with guns, hammers, shovels, you name it.. I wouldn't want him to understand what is happening, and think its ok to "play" zombie.

Kind of like when you see kids play fighting, like there acting out what they see on TV. When I see that it makes me want to move out to the woods, and throw away my TV.. I want my son to enjoy and learn about the out doors, and learn values in life. Not play video games, and learn about fighting and stuff like that. I find it sad that we hardly look at the stars anymore, I find it sad that the only consolation I can pick out is Orion.. I want my son to be able to school me on the stars some day.. And at this rate, he's not going to learn it from his dad..

Sorry got off track there..

I plan to combat these type of horrible senseless acts of violence with education and nurturing to my son. Tell him, and SHOW him whats right, whats wrong, teach him HONOR... And I WILL be showing him how to handle and respect weapons, not to be afraid of them, but to RESPECT them, and LIFE..

Thats how I define gun control..
Agreed!

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post #28 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 02:15 AM
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What do you guys think about guns in school? Should all faculty or students be allowed to have guns?

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post #29 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 02:31 AM
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Give every teacher a gun, but do a background check and what not.

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post #30 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 02:52 AM
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Give every teacher a gun, but do a background check and what not.

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That kinda sounds like your suggesting it be a requirement. I was thinking like IF a teacher wants to carry a gun in class and is qualified, then they should be alowed to. Now students..I kinda think the same. Especially all the cops that go to my school, I would have no problem if they were allowed to bring their guns

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post #31 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 03:09 AM
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Give every teacher a gun, but do a background check and what not.

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That kinda sounds like your suggesting it be a requirement. I was thinking like IF a teacher wants to carry a gun in class and is qualified, then they should be alowed to. Now students..I kinda think the same. Especially all the cops that go to my school, I would have no problem if they were allowed to bring their guns

FBI — FBI Releases Preliminary Statistics for Law Enforcement Officers Killed in 2010

One in Eight Police Officer's killed in the United States in the line of duty in 2010 was killed with their own weapon. One in four had their weapon stolen at or before the time of their death. These are men who undergo fantastic amounts of weapons training and education on how to deal with criminals. You think a small female teacher could adequately stop a motivated student who wanted to shoot up the class with her gun? You think a male math teacher could adequately stop a motivated student who wished to sneak into his classroom, steal his firearm and get revenge on those peers who bullied him? Absolutely not.

You are off your rocker if you think the action to combat firearm abuse in this country is more firearms.

More guns is not the solution, and more gun ownership is not the solution. That simply increases the probability of something like this occurring. Going down to basic statistics, when you have more guns, more guns are likely to go off. What this argument creates is a very "Wild Wild West" type scenario, and in today's society is just not the case or answer to this issue. You may feel that way living in Texas or Alabama or something, but I have now lived in two major metropolitan areas, including New York City...if everyone on the subway had a gun, including myself, I would be scared shitless every day. I already am afraid if I trek into Spanish Harlem or some parts of North Brooklyn or a few parts of the Bronx. We don't need that everywhere.

The solution is better education about guns. The solution is that fire arms should only even be displayed or used when ABSOLUTELY necessary. You'll notice a police officers use of a fire arm to be an absolute last resort and/or act of desperation to save lives, including their own. This should be the only time guns are tolerated, acts of desperation and/or last resort. More guns is not the solution.

A licensure and examination process would keep guns in the hands of law abiding citizens who maintain ownership for personal sport and protection. It also begins the process of weeding out loonies who look to buy guns to shoot up movie theaters. The Columbine shooters purchased their ammunition at Wal-Mart for crying out loud. You should have to show and scan a license to purchase firearms and ammunition. For those who still commit crimes who are not licensed owners, the chances for a conviction and stricter punishment are greater because they've now committed more crimes. Makes it much harder for criminals and loonies to obtain firearms. Keeps firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens who own them for limited and proper use. Those who do use firearms that they are not licensed to use and who commit criminal action with said firearms, have a greater probability of criminal conviction in court as they have now violated more laws. Everyone wins.

I see no reason why my proposition on the first page isn't one that should be adopted by Congress.



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post #32 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by eleanor08 View Post
I plan to combat these type of horrible senseless acts of violence with education and nurturing to my son. Tell him, and SHOW him whats right, whats wrong, teach him HONOR... And I WILL be showing him how to handle and respect weapons, not to be afraid of them, but to RESPECT them, and LIFE..
your getting off tracked brought it back to what whiskey said about how the current generation and mine was. ppl blamed stuff on others for us and didnt try to teach us cause they were told its wrong on how they grew up. i hear it all the time cause my dad raised me right imo...i got smacked when needed it and was told not to make excuses and fix the problem. now these people from my generation are having kids and are going more extreme in what they were told and i see kids growing up not knowing right from wrong with guns and blades cause there is no guidance and no parenting telling them its wrong.

the only ppl allowed to carry a gun in a school should be somebody full trained and confident in themself imo.

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post #33 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 06:53 AM
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post #34 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 07:16 AM
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Simply put: Let me own whatever the hell I want.

Of course, it's more complicated than that. There is a jumblefuck of conflicting points in my head. For example, I think that more guns = less crime, and I personally want less restrictions on firearms, however, I believe that there is a point of diminishing return. I don't think the equilibrium of laws can be found, and therefore am willing to live with the tradeoff of having more firearms rights.

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post #35 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by NoColoradoGT View Post
FBI — FBI Releases Preliminary Statistics for Law Enforcement Officers Killed in 2010

One in Eight Police Officer's killed in the United States in the line of duty in 2010 was killed with their own weapon. One in four had their weapon stolen at or before the time of their death. These are men who undergo fantastic amounts of weapons training and education on how to deal with criminals. You think a small female teacher could adequately stop a motivated student who wanted to shoot up the class with her gun? You think a male math teacher could adequately stop a motivated student who wished to sneak into his classroom, steal his firearm and get revenge on those peers who bullied him? Absolutely not.

You are off your rocker if you think the action to combat firearm abuse in this country is more firearms.

More guns is not the solution, and more gun ownership is not the solution. That simply increases the probability of something like this occurring. Going down to basic statistics, when you have more guns, more guns are likely to go off. What this argument creates is a very "Wild Wild West" type scenario, and in today's society is just not the case or answer to this issue. You may feel that way living in Texas or Alabama or something, but I have now lived in two major metropolitan areas, including New York City...if everyone on the subway had a gun, including myself, I would be scared shitless every day. I already am afraid if I trek into Spanish Harlem or some parts of North Brooklyn or a few parts of the Bronx. We don't need that everywhere.

The solution is better education about guns. The solution is that fire arms should only even be displayed or used when ABSOLUTELY necessary. You'll notice a police officers use of a fire arm to be an absolute last resort and/or act of desperation to save lives, including their own. This should be the only time guns are tolerated, acts of desperation and/or last resort. More guns is not the solution.

A licensure and examination process would keep guns in the hands of law abiding citizens who maintain ownership for personal sport and protection. It also begins the process of weeding out loonies who look to buy guns to shoot up movie theaters. The Columbine shooters purchased their ammunition at Wal-Mart for crying out loud. You should have to show and scan a license to purchase firearms and ammunition. For those who still commit crimes who are not licensed owners, the chances for a conviction and stricter punishment are greater because they've now committed more crimes. Makes it much harder for criminals and loonies to obtain firearms. Keeps firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens who own them for limited and proper use. Those who do use firearms that they are not licensed to use and who commit criminal action with said firearms, have a greater probability of criminal conviction in court as they have now violated more laws. Everyone wins.

I see no reason why my proposition on the first page isn't one that should be adopted by Congress.
You said fantastic amounts of weapons training, I don't think any police academy meets that standard. Its all up to the individual. I know cops that other than the first time they recieved their weapon only touch their gun every 6 months when they have to go to the range, and I know people that go to the range every weekend. Who would you rather be protected by? I do agree with you though that more guns = more guns going off. But I think there should be a fair chance by having at least 1 known gun in a school. Now I would prefer a full-time armed officer in every elementary school, but thats not gonna happen. So if we have to resort to letting a 130lb female teacher be the one to carry a gun in school, I'm fine with that.

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post #36 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 11:53 AM
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post #37 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 12:03 PM
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People kill people. Criminals are criminals for a reason shoplifting, stealing, killing, rape, you name it. Is it legal? No. It's our right in the country not only to defend ourselves, but to bear arms, even against the government.


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post #38 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 03:25 PM
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People kill people. Criminals are criminals for a reason shoplifting, stealing, killing, rape, you name it. Is it legal? No. It's our right in the country not only to defend ourselves, but to bear arms, even against the government.


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Probably one of the few times I agree with you!

Gun Rights and Gun Control are such a sticky subject because both sides of the argument make very valid points. How do you arm a public from tyranny without them killing each other?

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post #39 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 03:40 PM
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Going down to basic statistics, when you have more guns, more guns are likely to go off.
It's funny that you mention basic statistics. In the other thread (that's could merge into this topic), Zip posted a link that shows percentage of people that own firearms and the number of firearm homicides. I typed it all into Excel and did some of this basic statistics and guess what basic statistics shows? It shows that the number of guns owned and gun homicides are NOT well correlated. Here's the graph I made with Zip's data (first shows all data, second zooms in on the Y-axis for more detail). X-axis is percentage that owns firearms. Y-axis is firearm homicides.



Notice the R^2 value of 0.11.....yeah, it is basic statistics.

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post #40 of 633 Old December 15th, 2012, 03:49 PM
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Probably one of the few times I agree with you!

Gun Rights and Gun Control are such a sticky subject because both sides of the argument make very valid points. How do you arm a public from tyranny without them killing each other?

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