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post #1 of 18 Old February 11th, 2013, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs down Nancy Pelosi's brother-in-law is given $737m of taxpayers' money to build giant ...

And you wonder where your tax dollars are going? Well, the left wing loves funneling it to their crony capitalist friends and family members!

Nancy Pelosi's brother-in-law is given $737m of taxpayers' money to build giant solar power plant in middle of the desert

Nancy Pelosi's brother-in-law given loan bigger than Solyndra for solar plant | Mail Online

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post #2 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 01:24 AM
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And you wonder where your tax dollars are going? Well, the left wing loves funneling it to their crony capitalist friends and family members!

Nancy Pelosi's brother-in-law is given $737m of taxpayers' money to build giant solar power plant in middle of the desert

Nancy Pelosi's brother-in-law given loan bigger than Solyndra for solar plant | Mail Online
At least the money is going to advance green projects that will help our nation in the long run and not to some ridiculous rat hole like the one that Michelle Bachmanns husband has trying to convert gay people to straight.

So far us taxpayers have been taken for almost a million dollars on some bullshit program that has no redeeming value whatsoever.

What I find funny is Bachmann is the first to whine about overbloated entitlement programs yet she is more than comfortable with her husband milking the system. Gotta love those Republicans and their faux morality!!!

John

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post #3 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 01:35 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Novanutcase View Post
At least the money is going to advance green projects that will help our nation in the long run and not to some ridiculous rat hole like the one that Michelle Bachmanns husband has trying to convert gay people to straight.

So far us taxpayers have been taken for almost a million dollars on some bullshit program that has no redeeming value whatsoever.

What I find funny is Bachmann is the first to whine about overbloated entitlement programs yet she is more than comfortable with her husband milking the system. Gotta love those Republicans and their faux morality!!!

John
What the hell does this have to do with Bachman and gay marriage? that is a separate issue and peanuts compared to this scam!

This is a shell game stealing tax payer money and giving it to politicians and their family members as well as cronies from other failed green energies companies (Solyndra) that already took us for massive amounts of money!

So you're for more of this wasteful crony capitalist green energy scamming like Solyndra? Man, you really are sold on the propaganda! They can take all the money they want and funnel it to their cronies and family so long as they tell you it is for "green energy" right?

I think I need to start a green energy business. They'll finance the whole damn thing, too! At least I know if it won't profit, that government will subsidize it and keep me making millions!

You can't be serious. Tell me your post was sarcasm!

That's nearly a Billion dollars! See picture below! You couldn't rob banks and get away with that much cash! I suppose the new bank robbers are politicians and their cronies? Right? Shesh!
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post #4 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 02:47 AM
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What the hell does this have to do with Bachman and gay marriage? that is a separate issue and peanuts compared to this scam!

This is a shell game stealing tax payer money and giving it to politicians and their family members as well as cronies from other failed green energies companies (Solyndra) that already took us for massive amounts of money!

So you're for more of this wasteful crony capitalist green energy scamming like Solyndra? Man, you really are sold on the propaganda! They can take all the money they want and funnel it to their cronies and family so long as they tell you it is for "green energy" right?

I think I need to start a green energy business. They'll finance the whole damn thing, too! At least I know if it won't profit, that government will subsidize it and keep me making millions!

You can't be serious. Tell me your post was sarcasm!

That's nearly a Billion dollars! See picture below! You couldn't rob banks and get away with that much cash! I suppose the new bank robbers are politicians and their cronies? Right? Shesh!
It has everything to do with Bachmanns BS. You're complaining about money being misappropriated by the government to cronies. Marcus Bachmanns gay therapy conversion idiocy is a perfect example of this.

As I said before, at least this is furthering the cause for green energy development. No different than when the oil and gas industries were(and still are) receiving massive subsidies from our government when they were a fledgling industry.

Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, Pelosi's brother in law is actually qualified to run a project like this and that it's not some tin foil conspiracy that you seem to like to propogate to prove how evil the left is in their desire to bankrupt our nation?

From Factcheck.org....

FactCheck.org : Ron Pelosi’s Connection to Tonopah Solar Energy

Ron Pelosi’s Connection to Tonopah Solar Energy

Q: Did the Energy Department give a loan to an energy company connected to Nancy Pelosi’s brother-in-law?
A: Yes. The loan was awarded to Tonopah Solar Energy for a project in Nevada. Ron Pelosi was then a board member with a subsidiary of Pacific Corporate Group, an investment partner in Tonopah’s parent company.

FULL QUESTION

This came from a typically unreliable source, any truth to it?

The Solar thing just got a little more interesting…….REALLY!

The Tonopah Solar company in Harry Reid’s Nevada is getting a $737 million loan from Obama’s DOE.

The project will produce a 110 megawatt power system and employ 45 permanent workers.

That’s costing us just $16 million per job.

One of the investment partners in this endeavor is Pacific Corporate Group (PCG).

The PCG executive director is Ron Pelosi who is the brother to Nancy’s husband.

Just move along folks…..nuthin goin on here.

FULL ANSWER

Shortly after the solar energy company Solyndra filed for bankruptcy — after receiving a $535 million loan from the Department of Energy — we received several emails from readers asking us to look into the claims made in the chain email above. It gets some of the basic facts correct.

It’s true that Tonopah Solar Energy, a subsidiary of SolarReserve, received a $737 million loan from the government to build a new solar facility in Nevada.
It’s also true that the project is expected to create 45 permanent jobs. However, many construction jobs also would be supported. Furthermore, there’s no indication at present that the loan won’t be repaid. So it’s misleading to claim it is costing taxpayers $16 million per job.
And Ron Pelosi, Nancy Pelosi’s brother-in-law, had been the executive director with PCG Asset Management, a subsidiary of PCG, until April 2009. But he was only an “independent director” on the company’s board in September 2011 when the loan guarantee for Tonopah was finalized. As an independent director, Pelosi sat on the board of directors, but did not oversee day-to-day management of the company.

What we can’t say one way or the other is whether the loan the company received from the Energy Department had anything to do with Ron Pelosi, as the email suggests. We spoke to company officials for SolarReserve and PCG, and they denied that Pelosi had any influence on the loan. They also stated to us that Ron Pelosi’s compensation agreement does not allow him to benefit personally from the loan, a statement we are not in a position to confirm or dispute.

Update, Feb. 2, 2012: In a statement to FactCheck.org, Ron Pelosi also said that “the loan the company received had nothing to do with me.” He added that he “knew nothing regarding their proposed or actual transactions,” and “did not speak with any person in connection with their plans.” He said that “those who say I did are attempting to smear Nancy Pelosi and me for their own political purposes.”

Pelosi also provided us with email correspondence between him and David Fann, the former president and CEO of PCG Asset Management, indicating that he was only to receive $25,000 annually as a member of the company’s board of directors.

The Loan

The Department of Energy announced on Sept. 28 that it had “finalized a $737 million loan guarantee to Tonopah Solar Energy LLC to develop the Crescent Dunes Solar Energy Project” in Nevada. The 110 megawatt solar power tower will be the “first of its kind in the United States and the tallest molten salt tower in the world,” according to a press release from the department.

The project, which had the backing of Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada and the state’s former Republican Gov. Jim Gibbons, is expected to generate enough renewable electricity to power up to 75,000 homes at peak hours.

The email claims that the project will “employ 45 permanent workers … costing us just $16 million per job.” But that math is misleading. The project is expected to create 45 permanent jobs, according to figures available on the website of the Energy Department’s Loan Programs Office. But in addition to those permanent positions, the project could create as many as 600 construction jobs over a 30-month period and “more than 4,300 direct, indirect and induced jobs” throughout the country, according to Kevin Smith, the chief executive officer of SolarReserve.

More important, if things go according to plan, the government might actually make money on the deal. SolarReserve anticipates paying back the government’s loan with interest, Smith said.

Smith, Nov. 4: It’s important to stress that this is a loan that earns the government an approximately 4% annual interest rate. This is not an ‘expenditure’ by the government, but rather a loan that has to be fully paid back with interest so it should not cost the tax payers any money at all.

And Smith said that the project, which is just starting the construction phase, already has a 25-year purchase agreement to sell 100 percent of the electricity generated to NV Energy, the largest utility company in Nevada. “This essentially ensures the project has the revenue stream necessary to pay back the loan,” he said.


The Pelosi Connection

On Sept. 29, the conservative Weekly Standard called the loan an example of “crony capitalism” in a blog post, citing, in part, Ron Pelosi’s connection to SolarReserve through PCG. That blog item was then featured temporarily on the Drudge Report under the heading: “Crony Capitalism: Massive Solar Loan Benefits Pelosi’s Kin.”

Ron Pelosi worked for PCG Asset Management as the executive director from March 2008 until April 2009, when he resigned. SolarReserve’s CEO said the company didn’t apply for the loan guarantee until the fall of 2009. And when the loan for the project was finalized in September 2011, Pelosi was only serving as an “independent director” on the board of PCG Asset Management. But did he have anything to do with the loan going through?

Fortune.com called this “the next fake solar scandal” on its website. And the San Francisco Chronicle labeled the claims of “crony capitalism” erroneous, reporting that the Energy Department officials and Rep. Nancy Pelosi had called the claims “absurd.”

We can’t say definitively whether Ron Pelosi had anything to do with the loan or not. But, for what it’s worth, officials for SolarReserve and PCG deny that he did.

Smith, SolarReserve’s CEO, told FactCheck.org in an email that PCG “does not have a seat on our Board and have had no direct activity in any project and have done no lobbying on our behalf.” He even went so far as to say that he “never met or talked to Ron Pelosi and did not even know he existed” until after the project’s final financing was announced in September.

Smith also said that PCG has just a 2 percent investment in SolarReserve (through some New York pension funds). He didn’t provide us with any documentation to that effect, however.

PCG spokesman Brian Maddox also denied that Pelosi, or anyone else from the company, had lobbied for the Energy Department to make the loan to SolarReserve. In an exchange of emails with FactCheck.org, Maddox said that Pelosi was employed at the time the loan was finalized, but that PCG’s investment in SolarReserve “substantially antecedes” the time when Pelosi joined the company.

More to the point, he also said that Pelosi “is not compensated on the performance” of that investment. But even though we asked, Maddox didn’t provide us with any documentation of the basis for Pelosi’s compensation.

Update, Feb. 2, 2012: As we previously noted, Ron Pelosi was not actually “employed” by PCG at the time the loan guarantee was finalized. He was on the board of a subsidiary of the company. And Pelosi provided us with email correspondence between him and the former president and CEO of PCG Asset Management, indicating that he was only to receive $25,000 annually as a member of the company’s board of directors.

– Dave Bloom, with D’Angelo Gore

Correction, Feb. 2, 2012: The original Ask FactCheck incorrectly stated that “Ron Pelosi is an executive with Pacific Corporate Group” and that he had been employed there when the loan was finalized. Pelosi was the executive director with PCG Asset Management, a subsidiary of Pacific Corporate Group, from March 31, 2008, until April 13, 2009. And he was an “independent director” on that company’s board from March 16, 2011, until November 10, 2011. The Energy Department finally approved the loan guarantee for Tonopah Solar Energy’s project in September 2011. We have corrected this article accordingly.

Sources

Smith, Kevin, CEO SolarReserve. Email Sent to FactCheck.org. 4 Nov 2011.

Maddox, Brian, PCG Spokesman. Email Sent to FactCheck.org. 9 Nov 2011.

Department of Energy. “DOE Finalizes $737 Million Loan Guarantee to Tonopah Solar Energy for Nevada Project.” Press release. 28 Sep 2011.

SolarReserve. “SolarReserve Completes Financing for Advanced Technology Solar Power Project in Nevada.” Press release. 28 Sep 2011.

SolarReserve. “SolarReserve Signs Power Contract with NV Energy for Utility Scale Solar Power Project in Nevada.” Press release. 22 Dec 2009.

Hemingway, Mark. “Crony Capitalism: $737 Million Green Jobs Loan Given to Nancy Pelosi’s Brother-In-Law.” WeeklyStandard.com. 29 Sep 2011.

Garofoli, Joe. “Pelosi brother-in-law not tied to solar project.” San Francisco Chronicle. 30 Sep 2011.

Primack, Dan. “The next fake solar scandal.” Fortune.com. 29 Sep 2011.


At least this project actually benefits society and will be paid back with interest whereas Bachmanns does nothing for us other than to line their own pockets and inflict their brand of "correct thinking" on those poor souls!

Please do us all a favor and actually fact check whatever you're going to post. Posting this kind of stuff that is so easily refuted ruins your credibility and makes you sound like a propagandist that can't be taken seriously.

John

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post #5 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 03:16 AM Thread Starter
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I don't believe in factcheck.org, snopes, and all these other BS biased propaganda outlets that dispute every fact known to man to attempt to discredit them with crap so the right and left wing machine can keep moving forward with their BS.

It is a conflict of interest for politicians to be giving money, subsides, grants, loans, etc., to family members, politically connected business partners, etc.

I don't have more time to reply right now, but I find it really laughable that you would search the internets to justify this crony capitalist BS.

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post #6 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 03:20 AM
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I don't believe in factcheck.org, snopes, and all these other BS biased propaganda outlets that dispute every fact known to man to attempt to discredit them with crap so the right and left wing machine can keep moving forward with their BS.

It is a conflict of interest for politicians to be giving money, subsides, grants, loans, etc., to family members, politically connected business partners, etc.

I don't have more time to reply right now, but I find it really laughable that you would search the internets to justify this crony capitalist BS.

What I find laughable is that you point at my link as laughable since it comes from the internet yet you're basing your source from an internet site!!

I forgot you don't believe in written reporting unless it comes from a right wing source lambasting it's left wing brothers. It's all a conspiracy by the government to control the people and turn us into the next USSR! Nevermind.....next......

John

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post #7 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 03:28 AM Thread Starter
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I forgot you don't believe in written reporting unless it comes from a right wing source. It's all a conspiracy by the government to control the people and turn us into the next USSR. Nevermind.....next......

John
No, I don't take every freaking liberal left-wing drive-by-fact-checker site as the Gospel.

The Annenberg Foundation is part of the liberal left-wing front in general anyway, so of course they have bias and political agendas.

So who is going to fact check the fact checkers?

Right now, I'm about a week behind on studying for a major exam tomorrow, so no more time to argue politics.

Have fun living in that bubble where everything the left-wing says is truth and everything else is lies and propaganda!

Later..

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post #8 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 03:32 AM
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So who is going to fact check the fact checkers?
That question needs to be directed at the source you originally posted. Do you know if the information your source is purporting to be true is fact if whatever is written and fact checked cannot be trusted?

Going by what you say, that would mean that nothing that is written can be considered factual!

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post #9 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 03:44 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Novanutcase View Post
That question needs to be directed at the source you originally posted. Do you know if the information your source is purporting to be true is fact if whatever is written and fact checked cannot be trusted?

Going by what you say, that would mean that nothing that is written can be considered factual!

John
Nice circle-jerk post. Let me do the same... It's funnah!

I suggest you fact check your fact checker and then check the facts from the sites you fact check the fact checker with.

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post #10 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 08:39 AM
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At least the money is going to advance green projects that will help our nation in the long run and not to some ridiculous rat hole like the one that Michelle Bachmanns husband has trying to convert gay people to straight.

So far us taxpayers have been taken for almost a million dollars on some bullshit program that has no redeeming value whatsoever.

What I find funny is Bachmann is the first to whine about overbloated entitlement programs yet she is more than comfortable with her husband milking the system. Gotta love those Republicans and their faux morality!!!

John
So you proved his point. The government is doing an excellent job of pissing away your tax dollars.

Doesn't matter which party gets it, they're all pissing it away.

What about the hovercraft up in AK they spent millions on, and are now trying to sell? It goes great with their useless bridges and airports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novanutcase View Post
At least this project actually benefits society and will be paid back with interest whereas Bachmanns does nothing for us other than to line their own pockets and inflict their brand of "correct thinking" on those poor souls!

Please do us all a favor and actually fact check whatever you're going to post. Posting this kind of stuff that is so easily refuted ruins your credibility and makes you sound like a propagandist that can't be taken seriously.

John
...you mean just like Solyndra?

Those are exactly the same things they said about Solyndra, until it went under.

It's funny these politicians rail against the evil rich, while I don't recall anyone remotely middle/lower class in congress, and they just keep handing the rich more and more money. The Pelosi household has no shortage of wealth, so why do they need govt money? And if it was a viable business venture, wouldn't banks be tripping over themselves to offer than loan?
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So you proved his point. The government is doing an excellent job of pissing away your tax dollars.

Doesn't matter which party gets it, they're all pissing it away.

What about the hovercraft up in AK they spent millions on, and are now trying to sell? It goes great with their useless bridges and airports.



...you mean just like Solyndra?

Those are exactly the same things they said about Solyndra, until it went under.

It's funny these politicians rail against the evil rich, while I don't recall anyone remotely middle/lower class in congress, and they just keep handing the rich more and more money. The Pelosi household has no shortage of wealth, so why do they need govt money? And if it was a viable business venture, wouldn't banks be tripping over themselves to offer than loan?
I'm glad someone has time and tries to pull the blinders off this guy. Thanks!

I don't have the time to waste pointing out the obvious when folks like him are blinded by their own bias. What's shocking is he works pretty hard to justify and defend the cronyism and wasteful spending done in our government that he loves to dispute on the other side, like the Bachman thing that has nothing to do with this post and is just a stupid distraction.

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post #12 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 10:29 AM
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I suggest you fact check your fact checker and then check the facts from the sites you fact check the fact checker with.
Amazing! Someone else on here made that argument before too on a different topic about Paul Ryans speech at the RNC being loaded with a few lies and the fact checkers broke it down. Some refused to listen to the fact checkers and said the fact checkers should be fact checked bc they don't trust the fact checkers. It was almost a direct quote of what you just said. Im going to avoid jumping into this. That statement in particular just stood out to me lol.

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post #14 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 11:53 AM
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So you proved his point. The government is doing an excellent job of pissing away your tax dollars.

Doesn't matter which party gets it, they're all pissing it away.

What about the hovercraft up in AK they spent millions on, and are now trying to sell? It goes great with their useless bridges and airports.
No ones arguing the fact that that is happening but the original post is slanting that practice at one side of the political landscape and completely negating any responsibility for the others actions. My point was that both sides do it. If you're going to post something like John did and blame it all on the left he's skewing the argument. John has a history of doing this. My pointing out Bachmanns BS is a comparison of a program that has no redeeming value that is being directly funded through the cronyism that John is railing against versus a program that has a chance at affecting millions of people in a positive way.

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...you mean just like Solyndra?

Those are exactly the same things they said about Solyndra, until it went under.
Solyndra was a panel manufacturer not a power generator. They were unsuccessful because China was subsidizing their solar panel manufacturers driving the price down to unsustainable levels for the company to be able to compete. As the factcheck article states, Tonopah already has a 25 year contract for 100% of the electricity it produces. Solyndra didn't have any guaranteed contracts in place to hedge the loan they were getting from the government.

I'm sure, back in the day when the oil/gas industry was struggling to find it's feet, they had many failed companies that lost the government loans and subsidies it was afforded much like todays green energy industry is experiencing.

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It's funny these politicians rail against the evil rich, while I don't recall anyone remotely middle/lower class in congress, and they just keep handing the rich more and more money.
So who are these politicians that are railing against the evil rich? You're veiling your post to slant to the right since you and I both know that the left is the one that almost exclusively puts the screws to the rich to keep their financial influence to a minimum. Basically what you are saying in this statement is that the left are the only ones that are doing this. Yes, I know you've mentioned in previous posts that you include both sides in the blame but in the above statement that sentiment gets left out.

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The Pelosi household has no shortage of wealth, so why do they need govt money?
You do realize that none of the Pelosi's profited directly from the venture other than the $25,000 that Ron Pelosi made being an independent board member, at least according to everything that I've read.

Check the facts before your write | Hernando Today

Check the facts before your write

Mike Stansbury's Sunday letter restated a slur against the Pelosi family and the Obama administration, re: a federal loan to Tonopah Solar Energy, a subsidiary of a company called Solar Reserve.

Stansbury claims that Ronald Pelosi, the brother of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, stands to benefit from the loan.

In fact, the San Francisco Chronicle and Fortune magazine have both, several days ago, reported that this is not true.

Mr. Pelosi is an executive at the Pacific Corporate Group. A subsidiary of PCG, the PCG Clean Energy and Technology Fund (East) invested in Solar Reserve.

From Fortune magazine: "It is true that Ronald Pelosi is an executive at Pacific Corporate Group, one of the private equity firms that plugged more than $100 million into SolarReserve. But it is patently false that he will benefit from the loan...

"Ronald Pelosi joined PCG this past spring, whereas the firm first invested in SolarReserve three years ago. More importantly, Ronald Pelosi does not have a financial interest in the fund that houses SolarReserve. If the fund generates big profits on its investment, Pelosi gets nothing. If the fund's investment gets wiped out, Pelosi won't take a hit."

Now I understand that Mr. Stansbury is simply re-publicizing gossip he's picked up from the right wing media. But certainly before he sends off a letter slandering public officials and career civil servants, he should check the readily available facts.

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Originally Posted by WickedSnake00 View Post
And if it was a viable business venture, wouldn't banks be tripping over themselves to offer than loan?
There could be a myriad of reasons that loan is coming from the public sector. I'm sure the low interest rate the government is willing to give them is the most enticing reason since the government isn't in the loan for profit business like the banks are. Yes, they make a small profit but not like the banks do. Maybe it could be that they weren't able to gather enough loans in the private sector to be able to bouy their books for sufficient liquidity to float them in the beginning? Again, there could be a myriad of reasons why it's not some evil plot to siphon money into the pockets of friends/families.

So why, when the oil/gas industry was in it's infancy, did they need to, and continue to, get government subsidies? Because the government recognized that the private sector wouldn't back them up financially and the energy these companies would provide would help to fuel this nation. Can you imagine what this country would be like had the government not subsidized and grown our oil/gas companies? We would probably look like a lot of the other 3rd world countries rather than the prosperous country that we are today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
Nice circle-jerk post. Let me do the same... It's funnah!

I suggest you fact check your fact checker and then check the facts from the sites you fact check the fact checker with.
So how's about you answer the question rather than try and skirt it with some sort of glib humor?

John

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post #15 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
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post #16 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 01:22 PM
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Ah crap, you're drawing me in to another lengthy argument. I can feel it already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novanutcase View Post
No ones arguing the fact that that is happening but the original post is slanting that practice at one side of the political landscape and completely negating any responsibility for the others actions. My point was that both sides do it. If you're going to post something like John did and blame it all on the left he's skewing the argument. John has a history of doing this. My pointing out Bachmanns BS is a comparison of a program that has no redeeming value that is being directly funded throught the cronyism that John is railing against versus a program that has a chance at affecting millions of people in a positive way.

And you are equally as eager to show Bachman (a Republican) pissing away tax dollars, while justifying an extensive loan to a Democrat. On the surface it does not appear to be a sweeping condemnation.

Solyndra was a panel manufacturer not a power generator. They were unsuccessful because China was subsidizing their solar panel manufacturers driving the price down to unsustainable levels for the company to be able to compete. As the factcheck article states, Tonopah already has a 25 year contract for 100% of the electricity it produces. Solyndra didn't have any guaranteed contracts in place to hedge the loan they were getting from the government.

I'm sure, back in the day when the oil/gas industry was struggling to find it's feet, they had many failed companies that lost the government loans and subsidies it was afforded much like todays green energy industry is experiencing.

They could be making chopsticks for all I care, the point is it was a shakey bet from the get-go, yet they were all too eager to fork over that money to their buddies.

So who are these politicians that are railing against the evil rich? You're veiling your post to slant to the right since you and I both know that the left is the one that almost exclusively puts the screws to the rich to keep their financial influence to a minimum. Basically what you are saying in this statement is that the left are the only ones that are doing this. Yes, I know you've mentioned in previous posts that you include both sides in the blame but in the above statement that sentiment gets left out.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard "the rich need to pay their fair share..." I could be giving half my income to the government because of my tax bracket.

I did not specify party, but you can agree the hypocrisy of saying "Pay more so we can piss away more!" regardless of party. That's like asking your boss for a raise so you can fund your crack habit.


You do realize that none of the Pelosi's profited directly from the venture other than the $25,000 that Ron Pelosi made being an independent board member, at least according to everything that I've read.

Check the facts before your write | Hernando Today

Check the facts before your write

Mike Stansbury's Sunday letter restated a slur against the Pelosi family and the Obama administration, re: a federal loan to Tonopah Solar Energy, a subsidiary of a company called Solar Reserve.

Stansbury claims that Ronald Pelosi, the brother of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, stands to benefit from the loan.

In fact, the San Francisco Chronicle and Fortune magazine have both, several days ago, reported that this is not true.

Mr. Pelosi is an executive at the Pacific Corporate Group. A subsidiary of PCG, the PCG Clean Energy and Technology Fund (East) invested in Solar Reserve.

From Fortune magazine: "It is true that Ronald Pelosi is an executive at Pacific Corporate Group, one of the private equity firms that plugged more than $100 million into SolarReserve. But it is patently false that he will benefit from the loan...

"Ronald Pelosi joined PCG this past spring, whereas the firm first invested in SolarReserve three years ago. More importantly, Ronald Pelosi does not have a financial interest in the fund that houses SolarReserve. If the fund generates big profits on its investment, Pelosi gets nothing. If the fund's investment gets wiped out, Pelosi won't take a hit."

Now I understand that Mr. Stansbury is simply re-publicizing gossip he's picked up from the right wing media. But certainly before he sends off a letter slandering public officials and career civil servants, he should check the readily available facts.

DallasDunlap

Brooksville


So at the same time you state that he's getting $25k from the venture, but he doesn't benefit at all? It just so happens he's part of the capital fund (which is evil when Mitt Romney is involved) but neither benefits nor suffers because of it? Is he just there for the free coffee? I do not see an assertion that clarifies how he is an executive, yet does not stand to benefit from any sort of performance of that fund.


There could be a myriad of reasons that loan is coming from the public sector. I'm sure the low interest rate the government is willing to give them is the most enticing reason since the government isn't in the loan for profit business like the banks are. Yes, they make a small profit but not like the banks do. Maybe it could be that they weren't able to gather enough loans in the private sector to be able to bouy their books for sufficient liquidity to float them in the beginning? Again, there could be a myriad of reasons why it's not some evil plot to siphon money into the pockets of friends/families.

So why, when the oil/gas industry was in it's infancy, did they need to, and continue to, get government subsidies? Because the government recognized that the private sector wouldn't back them up financially and the energy these companies would provide would help to fuel this nation. Can you imagine what this country would be like had the government not subsidized and grown our oil/gas companies? We would probably look like a lot of the other 3rd world countries rather than the prosperous country that we are today.

Purely speculation. At the same time you can look at companies and innovations in aerospace, automotive, and electronics that have not been subsidized, yet flourished.

My point is that why are we throwing around risky loans when we don't even have the money to pay the bills, let alone we just so happen to be handing that money over to relatives of congress, or campaign backers?

Just imagine your congressman walking up to you on the street and saying "Hey, I'm going to need half your paycheck." "Why?" "This guy that funded my campaign, he's got a real sweet startup company. It's totally going to revolutionize clean energy. I just need your money to give to him." I don't know about you, maybe you would give him half your paycheck and an extra five for bus fare, but I'd probably sock him in the mouth for that kind of audacity.
John
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post #17 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
What the hell does this have to do with Bachman and gay marriage? that is a separate issue and peanuts compared to this scam!

This is a shell game stealing tax payer money and giving it to politicians and their family members as well as cronies from other failed green energies companies (Solyndra) that already took us for massive amounts of money!

So you're for more of this wasteful crony capitalist green energy scamming like Solyndra? Man, you really are sold on the propaganda! They can take all the money they want and funnel it to their cronies and family so long as they tell you it is for "green energy" right?

I think I need to start a green energy business. They'll finance the whole damn thing, too! At least I know if it won't profit, that government will subsidize it and keep me making millions!

You can't be serious. Tell me your post was sarcasm!

That's nearly a Billion dollars! See picture below! You couldn't rob banks and get away with that much cash! I suppose the new bank robbers are politicians and their cronies? Right? Shesh!
This right here, the taxpayers made Al Gore rich....
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post #18 of 18 Old February 12th, 2013, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedSnake00 View Post
Ah crap, you're drawing me in to another lengthy argument. I can feel it already.
You know you love it!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedSnake00 View Post
Originally Posted by Novanutcase View Post

No ones arguing the fact that that is happening but the original post is slanting that practice at one side of the political landscape and completely negating any responsibility for the others actions. My point was that both sides do it. If you're going to post something like John did and blame it all on the left he's skewing the argument. John has a history of doing this. My pointing out Bachmanns BS is a comparison of a program that has no redeeming value that is being directly funded throught the cronyism that John is railing against versus a program that has a chance at affecting millions of people in a positive way.

And you are equally as eager to show Bachman (a Republican) pissing away tax dollars, while justifying an extensive loan to a Democrat. On the surface it does not appear to be a sweeping condemnation.

Yes I am. I wanted to make sure and try and put some sort of counterpoint to a one sided claim so that those reading don't take his post as gospel.

Solyndra was a panel manufacturer not a power generator. They were unsuccessful because China was subsidizing their solar panel manufacturers driving the price down to unsustainable levels for the company to be able to compete. As the factcheck article states, Tonopah already has a 25 year contract for 100% of the electricity it produces. Solyndra didn't have any guaranteed contracts in place to hedge the loan they were getting from the government.

I'm sure, back in the day when the oil/gas industry was struggling to find it's feet, they had many failed companies that lost the government loans and subsidies it was afforded much like todays green energy industry is experiencing.

They could be making chopsticks for all I care, the point is it was a shakey bet from the get-go, yet they were all too eager to fork over that money to their buddies.

Shaky bet according to who? When these kinds of loans are appropriated they go through a lengthy committee process to assess the viability of the company and the loan amount. Obviously the committee in charge of appropriating the funds didn't feel that way. As I mentioned before, all those oil and gas companies that benefited from government subsidies....should they have not been subsidized? All those pipelines that were built with government loan money? Should those have not been built so that we can enjoy the cheap gas we are fortunate enough to get in this country and that has helped move our country forward? If you can forecast which company will be assured of turning a profit give me a call. My checkbook is ready and waiting to start said company up! Woohoo! Guaranteed profits!!

So who are these politicians that are railing against the evil rich? You're veiling your post to slant to the right since you and I both know that the left is the one that almost exclusively puts the screws to the rich to keep their financial influence to a minimum. Basically what you are saying in this statement is that the left are the only ones that are doing this. Yes, I know you've mentioned in previous posts that you include both sides in the blame but in the above statement that sentiment gets left out.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard "the rich need to pay their fair share..." I could be giving half my income to the government because of my tax bracket.

Who mentioned anything about "rich need to pay their fair share"?

I did not specify party, but you can agree the hypocrisy of saying "Pay more so we can piss away more!" regardless of party. That's like asking your boss for a raise so you can fund your crack habit.


Well of course but you are assuming that any appropriations that come out of washington never make it to the program and doesn't actually make it to it's intended target. That's not to say that money isn't wasted on a massive scale. Of course it is. That is why better oversight needs to be implemented not let's just lop off X amount and those in the program be damned!

My reply was because the tone of your statement pointed at the left wing as the fiscal culprits when, clearly it's both sides that have an equal share of the blame. I'm not saying the Dems are innocent in this whole deal but to say that a loan to a company is being made solely to line the pockets of a family member is speculation and hearsay at best. Until you are able to prove without a doubt that Ron Pelosi was directly profiting from the deal the article is moot.


You do realize that none of the Pelosi's profited directly from the venture other than the $25,000 that Ron Pelosi made being an independent board member, at least according to everything that I've read.

Check the facts before your write | Hernando Today

Check the facts before your write

Mike Stansbury's Sunday letter restated a slur against the Pelosi family and the Obama administration, re: a federal loan to Tonopah Solar Energy, a subsidiary of a company called Solar Reserve.

Stansbury claims that Ronald Pelosi, the brother of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, stands to benefit from the loan.

In fact, the San Francisco Chronicle and Fortune magazine have both, several days ago, reported that this is not true.

Mr. Pelosi is an executive at the Pacific Corporate Group. A subsidiary of PCG, the PCG Clean Energy and Technology Fund (East) invested in Solar Reserve.

From Fortune magazine: "It is true that Ronald Pelosi is an executive at Pacific Corporate Group, one of the private equity firms that plugged more than $100 million into SolarReserve. But it is patently false that he will benefit from the loan...

"Ronald Pelosi joined PCG this past spring, whereas the firm first invested in SolarReserve three years ago. More importantly, Ronald Pelosi does not have a financial interest in the fund that houses SolarReserve. If the fund generates big profits on its investment, Pelosi gets nothing. If the fund's investment gets wiped out, Pelosi won't take a hit."

Now I understand that Mr. Stansbury is simply re-publicizing gossip he's picked up from the right wing media. But certainly before he sends off a letter slandering public officials and career civil servants, he should check the readily available facts.

DallasDunlap

Brooksville

So at the same time you state that he's getting $25k from the venture, but he doesn't benefit at all? It just so happens he's part of the capital fund (which is evil when Mitt Romney is involved) but neither benefits nor suffers because of it? Is he just there for the free coffee? I do not see an assertion that clarifies how he is an executive, yet does not stand to benefit from any sort of performance of that fund.

So he's supposed to work for free? The amount is what is important here in relation to the actual loan. The $25,000 is a pittance in comparison to the loan amount.

"Ronald Pelosi joined PCG this past spring, whereas the firm first invested in SolarReserve three years ago. More importantly, Ronald Pelosi does not have a financial interest in the fund that houses SolarReserve. If the fund generates big profits on its investment, Pelosi gets nothing. If the fund's investment gets wiped out, Pelosi won't take a hit."



There could be a myriad of reasons that loan is coming from the public sector. I'm sure the low interest rate the government is willing to give them is the most enticing reason since the government isn't in the loan for profit business like the banks are. Yes, they make a small profit but not like the banks do. Maybe it could be that they weren't able to gather enough loans in the private sector to be able to bouy their books for sufficient liquidity to float them in the beginning? Again, there could be a myriad of reasons why it's not some evil plot to siphon money into the pockets of friends/families.

So why, when the oil/gas industry was in it's infancy, did they need to, and continue to, get government subsidies? Because the government recognized that the private sector wouldn't back them up financially and the energy these companies would provide would help to fuel this nation. Can you imagine what this country would be like had the government not subsidized and grown our oil/gas companies? We would probably look like a lot of the other 3rd world countries rather than the prosperous country that we are today.

Purely speculation. At the same time you can look at companies and innovations in aerospace, automotive, and electronics that have not been subsidized, yet flourished.

Correct! It is speculation on my part but since no one has the real answer as to why that's all we have to go on. BTW all those industries you listed have had government subsidies made available to them at some point in their history.

My point is that why are we throwing around risky loans when we don't even have the money to pay the bills, let alone we just so happen to be handing that money over to relatives of congress, or campaign backers?

Pelosi never touched the money nor did it ever touch him personally in regards to the loan. How can you say that he's being handed money?

Just imagine your congressman walking up to you on the street and saying "Hey, I'm going to need half your paycheck." "Why?" "This guy that funded my campaign, he's got a real sweet startup company. It's totally going to revolutionize clean energy. I just need your money to give to him." I don't know about you, maybe you would give him half your paycheck and an extra five for bus fare, but I'd probably sock him in the mouth for that kind of audacity.

So your view is that the appropriations committees are doing it all wrong and graft is so rampant that they are now not even bothering to do it covertly? Touche!!

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