ObamaCare's HHS Contraception Mandate Struck Down - Page 3 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #41 of 137 Old November 10th, 2013, 09:50 AM
FBGM
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Londonderry NH
Posts: 6,177
         
iTrader: 0 reviews
so by subsidize what do you mean? Pay for people that are poor and have children but shouldn't have them because they are a burden on society?

Saleen SuperCharged, C500 Side Exhaust, Cervinis Ram Air IV Hood, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, Chrome GT500 Replica wheels, GT500 Front Splitter ModBMR 1.25 Lowering Springs, ADJ Panhard Bar, CHE Torque Limiters and K Member Brace
kmac1622 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
 
JohnC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 5,024
           
iTrader: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFoxwell View Post
Why should I have to subsidize someone else's children?
Because socialism.

Seriously, though....

If someone decides to have 6 kids and has to stay home to raise them, you don't want to help?

Yet in another post, you stated that you wanted a system that guarantees everyone a standard of living (free housing, food, etc), even if they're able to work but just choose not to.

I'm confused....

2010 CGM Camaro 2SS RS 6L90
Stage II ProCharger D1X
760rwhp @ 14 PSI

JohnC is online now  
post #43 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 08:52 AM
Pawsitively sexy
 
Sixpointslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lower Sussex, DE
Posts: 10,561
                   
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
Because socialism.

Seriously, though....

If someone decides to have 6 kids and has to stay home to raise them, you don't want to help?

Yet in another post, you stated that you wanted a system that guarantees everyone a standard of living (free housing, food, etc), even if they're able to work but just choose not to.

I'm confused....
Look at the word under my screen name, John. Figured that was an appealing response to a poor man hating guy such as yourself.

2012 CTS-V

Not stock


Sixpointslow is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #44 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 10:50 AM
Priest of the Car Gods
 
ReverendDexter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rohnert Park, CA
Posts: 17,313
                     
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFoxwell View Post
A flat tax solves this. Why should I have to subsidize someone else's children?
EF, I know that you're stating these at least somewhat sarcastically, but as it's an expected statement I'm responding to it as if it were serious.

Flat tax is fair in the same way that first-past-the-post voting is fair; it's "obvious" and easy to understand so people think it's a good idea, but it conflates fair with equal.

Whether equal actually is fair depends on the situation, and for the situation of taxation that's a very deep can of worms. Digest version is that I don't believe that equal is fair where taxation is concerned because I don't believe that income/wealth are directly tied to one's virtues or lack thereoft, and I certainly do not believe that anyone creates their income/wealth in a vacuum.

Insofar as subsidizing other people's kids, yeah, that sucks, but the alternative is worse. What you're paying for is to live in an educated society that is driven by skilled labor, enterprise, and invention instead of a place only known for its cheap labor.

Function > Form, always
ReverendDexter is offline  
post #45 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 01:32 PM
MM's Caller of Bullshit
 
Destination S197's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 7,909
                     
Garage
iTrader: 1 reviews
I'm surprised at how many people believe that womens birth control is to sustain an erotic lifestyle. It's hormone control for a lot of women and right along with condoms for pregnancy prevention.

Your religious liberty stops when it begins to impact the life of other people. I believe you should not be able to limit care to someone based on your religious feelings on it. There has been a problem with some highly religious pharmacists not filling prescriptions or refusing medicines based on disagreeing with its use for religious reasons. Birth control falls under health care IMO, after all, health insurance covers Viagra. So men get to have their aging erection paid for but women can't get birth control. The sexism is starting to fall into place. Old men writing laws for young women.
Destination S197 is offline  
post #46 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 01:59 PM
MM Fanatic
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 4,562
               
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmac1622 View Post
Im not really old enough to understand all these forms and taxes but if someone was the exact same as me in every way, minus they didn't have to have their expenses looked then yes I would be angry. Imgaine if 2 people were payed 100k and one person had to pay taxes and the other didn't all other things being equal, wouldn't you be angry that you are being unfairly taxed?
There are so many variables that you can set when it comes to paychecks, it's almost a given no two people will pay the same taxes.

For example... My insurance has a $3000 personal deductible, $6000 family deductible. So generally speaking, I rack up that $3000 early in the year due to being a type 1 diabetic. So I have $3000/year deposited pre-tax into my health savings account to use towards that deductible. So that's $3000 I don't have to pay taxes on, and it goes straight to medical expenses. Add to that the cost of my insurance ($450/month) which comes out pre-tax (I think). I also pay for day care for after school, which the federal government says I can pull $5000/year pre-tax, so I have that going into a cafeteria plan that I submit a form for when the bill comes due. So, pre-tax I have for medical and childcare $8000 coming out that I don't have to pay taxes on. That reduces my taxable income from $40,000 per year to $32,000 per year, which drops me a bracket or two.

If you didn't choose to do these same things (both systems I use are "use it or lose it" systems. If I don't spend the money by year end, it's gone.) because you don't have a life long medical condition or didn't have children, that's $8000 more a year you are taxed on, making you pay more in taxes.

I am also submitting to my 401K, so that's more money that is not counted toward my taxable income, further dropping me lower on the tax rate.

So far this year, I have paid in $960 federal tax, $2100 social security, $490 medicare, and $1610 local income tax (which never makes sense to me). By the end of the year, I'll have paid approximately $1100 in federal tax, and I expect to receive around $2000 back due to the child credit.

Am I cheating the system? No... Everything I do is legal and by the book. But I essentially pay nothing into the federal government because they give me more back than I paid in all year. That to me is how fucked up our tax system is. Lots of working class people are taking advantage of the same rules as me, and paying no income tax. Does it piss you off I use the system to my advantage? I hope not, but if it does then you can do one of two things... Vote to change the system and eliminate loopholes, or take advantage of the same things I do and get your money you earned back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
Woodman is offline  
post #47 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
 
JohnC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 5,024
           
iTrader: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destination S197 View Post
I'm surprised at how many people believe that womens birth control is to sustain an erotic lifestyle. It's hormone control for a lot of women and right along with condoms for pregnancy prevention.

Your religious liberty stops when it begins to impact the life of other people. I believe you should not be able to limit care to someone based on your religious feelings on it. There has been a problem with some highly religious pharmacists not filling prescriptions or refusing medicines based on disagreeing with its use for religious reasons. Birth control falls under health care IMO, after all, health insurance covers Viagra. So men get to have their aging erection paid for but women can't get birth control. The sexism is starting to fall into place. Old men writing laws for young women.
Religious people have liberties, too.

You're liberties end when it forces religious folks to participate in killing babies (for instance abortion).

Some religious folks believe contraceptives are a form of killing babies.

Now aside from that, you give the religious folks no choice. But if you let the religious folks have their choice not to participate, the Females still have a choice to get contraceptives and abortions outside of the employer, or she can find an employer who will offer those services. She has many more choices than the religious employer.

So I think the right thing to do is to allow the employer who's religious to choose not to participate and allow the employed Female a choice to get contraceptives and abortions outside of the employer, or find an employer who does offer it if it's such an important issue for her.

Disclaimer: I'm not religious.

2010 CGM Camaro 2SS RS 6L90
Stage II ProCharger D1X
760rwhp @ 14 PSI

JohnC is online now  
post #48 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 08:24 PM
MM's Caller of Bullshit
 
Destination S197's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 7,909
                     
Garage
iTrader: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
Religious people have liberties, too.

You're liberties end when it forces religious folks to participate in killing babies (for instance abortion).

Some religious folks believe contraceptives are a form of killing babies.

Now aside from that, you give the religious folks no choice. But if you let the religious folks have their choice not to participate, the Females still have a choice to get contraceptives and abortions outside of the employer, or she can find an employer who will offer those services. She has many more choices than the religious employer.

So I think the right thing to do is to allow the employer who's religious to choose not to participate and allow the employed Female a choice to get contraceptives and abortions outside of the employer, or find an employer who does offer it if it's such an important issue for her.

Disclaimer: I'm not religious.
There is no "religious liberty" in the way that you say it. You have the right to practice your religion however you see fit until it denies other people equality. Believing birth control kills babies doesn't make it true and last time I checked, having an opinion wasn't good enough to deny people something like contraception.

All the employer has to do is provide health coverage. The employer isn't giving that person anything else but they want to see how far they can get their beliefs to reach. I don't see how any employer can dictate what someone gets under health coverage. Choosing a health insurance provider is something that a employer should have the power to choose but whether or not someone can get specific medications or contraceptions through that insurance is just plain stupid.

The employer isn't paying for birth control, they're paying for a plan that covers birth control. They would rather deny people health coverage and complain about their ability to practice their religion however they wish than to provide people with health insurance that covers birth control. I would also still like to know why erection medication (viagra) is covered and they're A OK with that but birth control, not so much. You know why, because they're still trying to take power from women and assert the male dominance as stated in their good books.

Stupid stupid stupid stupid.
Destination S197 is offline  
post #49 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
 
JohnC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 5,024
           
iTrader: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destination S197 View Post
There is no "religious liberty" in the way that you say it. You have the right to practice your religion however you see fit until it denies other people equality.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but someone has to debate the other side for the folks who aren't represented here.

We'll stop right here.

Religious business owners are not denying equalities. Abortions and contraceptives shouldn't even be the burden of an employer. That is a CHOCIE one makes in their PRIVATE life when they have sex.

The second part of that is it is not denying equalities because the Females still have the choices I listed before.

"Females still have a choice to get contraceptives and abortions outside of their employer, or she can find an employer who will offer those services. She has many more choices than the religious employer."

They can get their contraceptives and abortions outside of work.

No one should be forced to fund abortions or other folks birth control anyway.

And to be honest, I don't have issue with contraceptives myself, but we have to be fair here. Forcing a person to fund shit like abortions against their religious beliefs is not fair at all. To them, it is like participating in the murder of an infant.

Even in war you have a choice not to kill. You can be a religious conscientious objector. But somehow in private life, religious folks are forced to participate in killing babies via abortion and such.

2010 CGM Camaro 2SS RS 6L90
Stage II ProCharger D1X
760rwhp @ 14 PSI

JohnC is online now  
post #50 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 10:21 PM
MM's Caller of Bullshit
 
Destination S197's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 7,909
                     
Garage
iTrader: 1 reviews
My argument for the birth control is that it isn't just for that, it has a lot of other beneficial uses to women but they seem to focus on the sex life aspect of it. Yes, it prevents birth but it also prevents the growth of uterine tissue in other ares of the body lowering the pain caused my Endometriosis. It can help clear up acne, help prevent some forms of cancer, and also lessen the severity of PMS pain and lighten the monthly periods of women, and for some, lower the frequency to only two three times a year.

Of course its ONLY for killing babies though.

The employer isn't participating in anything which is what I don't get. All they need to do is supply health insurance through an insurer. If that insurer covers birth control, it isn't baby death by proxy for the employer. IMO, it's just another form of societal control from the religious majority.
Destination S197 is offline  
post #51 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
 
JohnC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 5,024
           
iTrader: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destination S197 View Post
My argument for the birth control is that it isn't just for that, it has a lot of other beneficial uses to women but they seem to focus on the sex life aspect of it. Yes, it prevents birth but it also prevents the growth of uterine tissue in other ares of the body lowering the pain caused my Endometriosis. It can help clear up acne, help prevent some forms of cancer, and also lessen the severity of PMS pain and lighten the monthly periods of women, and for some, lower the frequency to only two three times a year.
I guess you don't read the disclaimers and negative side effects of birth control, ehh?

The Pill Side Effects and Risks | Going Off the Pill

Quote:
When most girls are prescribed the birth control pill it's done flippantly and with little information. Before we delve into the numerous risks of short and long term hormonal birth control use, we would like to credit the pill with regulating periods, alleviating cramping and acne, preventing unwanted pregnancy, and reducing the risk of ovarian cancer.



1. Cancer

28 different studies have linked an increased risk of cervical cancer with prolonged oral contraceptive use. More than 50 studies have shown a small increase of risk for breast cancer from prolonged oral contraceptive use. For women over 45, the risk for breast cancer increased by one and half times (144%) more than for women who never used the pill. A study published in the British Journal of Cancer revealed that out of every 100,000 women on the pill for 10 years or more, there are 50 extra cases of breast cancer. In both cases, the risk is reduce after 10 years of discontinuation.



2. Blood clots

This is probably the most talked about risk. Estrogens can cause the liver to produce clotting factors. About 40 out of 100,000 birth control users develop blood clots, a small amount of which lead to fatalities. Most of these will happen within the first year of use.



3. Autoimmune disease

Estrogen can negatively impact the body's immune response, triggering a predisposition to autoimmune disease. A British study published in 2009 found women taking the birth control pill had a higher risk of developing lupus. Another study from McGill University in Montreal reviewed the data of 1.7 million women who had prescriptions for the birth control pill. After an eight year follow-up, the researchers found that hormonal birth control had increased the risk for developing lupus by up to 2.5-fold. The risk was lower for women taking oral contraceptives which had lower doses of estrogen.



3. Heart Attacks & Strokes

Several studies, including one published in MedLink Neurology, have found that women who take any kind of oral contraceptives are twice as likely to have a stroke than those who don’t. This risk is increased in women who get migraines with a visual aura, smoke, or have high blood pressure. A study from the University of Belgium found that the chance of finding artery-blocking plaques increased by up to 30% for every 10 years of pill use.



4. Fertility Problems

Prolonged use of hormonal birth control can damage the cervical crypts that produce cervical fluid. The production cervical fluid is vital during ovulation for it creates a hospitable travel and living environment for the sperm. It can take years for the body to heal and begin producing good quality cervical fluid. In rare cases, the damage to the cervical crypts is irreversible.



5. Depletion of Nutrients

Studies have indicated that women taking the birth control pill have a different type of vitamin B-6 in their system. Many claim long term hormonal contraceptive use can lead to B-6, B-12, and folic acid deficiency. This can be a problem as these nutrients metabolize homocysteine, a compound which if elevated can increase the risk of cardiovascular disease. Studies dating back to the 70's have documented the pill being responsible for depleting vitamin C, magnesium, selenium, zinc and the amino acid tyrosine. Having these vitamin deficiencies increases the chance for heart disease, depression, a child with birth defects, a weakened immune system, osteoporosis, high blood pressure, blood clots, muscle cramps, weakness, anxiety, depression, cardiovascular problems, and insomnia.



6. Decreased Bone Density

The decrease of normal estrogen levels can negatively impact bone density. Several studies, including recent ones published in Contraception and The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism have found that women under 30 who have taken oral contraceptives for 2 or more years show bone density loss. The loss was more significant in women taking low-dose estrogen birth control pills.



7. Gallbladder Disease

Both estrogen and progesterone increase chances of gallstone formation by increasing bile production and impeding bile flow. Several studies have discovered an increased chance of gallbladder disease among users of oral contraceptives. The risk is most significant in women taking pills containing a form of progestin called drospirenone found in the Yaz and Yasmin brands.



8. Poor Milk Production

Hormonal birth control containing artificial estrogen has been shown to decrease milk production and milk nutritional value in nursing mothers.



9. Impaired sex drive & decreased sexual enjoyment

This is the ironic side effect of the pill. Women take birth control to gain sexual freedom and are instead left having passionless and painful sex. Unfortunately low libido is one of the most common side effects of hormonal contraceptives. The pill can prevent the female body from effectively using testosterone (due to increased levels of sex-hormone binding globulin) which can significantly decrease sex drive. Women on the pill tend to have less sex, fewer orgasms and have a harder time attaining arousal. Long term oral contraceptive use has been found to decrease libido even after discontinuation of use. More research needs to be done to determine whether this is a permanent effect or not.

Many women also experience vaginal dryness which causes painful sex and leads to decreased sexual enjoyment. Eventually this pain can become the focus of the sexual experience, resulting in her dreading sex, and both parties often feeling frustrated and guilty. The birth control pill can also effect the production of androgens, which directly influence pleasure during intercourse. The saddest part of this side effect is that couples rarely attribute it to the pill. Women often feel that they are doing something wrong or something is wrong with their body for no reason.



10. Depression, PMS and Severe Mood Swings

Many women have reported experiencing emotional side effects after taking the pill, ranging from exacerbated PMS to severe depression. Some have reported feeling like a completely different person while taking the pill.

Often women don't realize that the pill is behind these symptoms until they go off their hormonal contraceptives and their mood stabilizes. This may be due to the fact that the pill is advertised to help reduce PMS, which for some it does. Women experiencing depression brought on by the pill will often be prescribed anti-depressants, which can add another layer of side effects, subtracting from their quality of life. An Australian study conducted in 2005 found that pill takers had an average depression rating of 17.6 compared to 9.8 in non-users.

These emotional side effects can have serious implications in the long term. They can effect work, relationships, self esteem, and overall well-being. Women of all ages have reported feeling like a completely changed individual after discontinuation of the pill.



11. Impaired Muscle Growth

The pill, specifically the synthetic version of progesterone (progestin) inhibits the production of muscle-building hormones and increases cortisol, which breaks down muscle. Birth control containing lower doses of progestins has not shown to have any negative effect on building muscle.



12. Less Desirable to Men

When a woman ovulates, not only does she feel sexier and more easily aroused, but men are actually more attracted to her. On a very primal level, a man can sense when a woman is fertile. Single women who chart their cycles have reported that they wait until they're ovulating to go out because they find it easier to attract sexual partners during this time.

A study done by the University of New Mexico discovered that fertile strippers make up to $30.00 more per hour than their on the pill counterparts, with earnings peaking during the time of ovulation. Because the pill prevents ovulation from occurring, men may subconciously view women taking oral contraceptives as infertile, therefore finding them unsuitable for mating.



13. Impaired Partner Selection

The pill can suppress your natural ability to pick sexual partners that are genetically different from you. A study done in the U.K. documented the men women chose before and after going on the pill. The results showed that that after going on the pill, the women chose men that were genetically closer to them than before they were on the the pill. Since genetic dissimilarity increases the probability of having healthy children, this side effect may be worth taking seriously.



14. High Blood Pressure

Several studies have demonstrated a direct link between oral contraceptives and an increase in blood pressure. When paired with factors such as smoking, obesity, and age, the pill can significantly increase the overall risk for cardiovascular disease.



15. Yeast Infections, Candida Prevalence, & Vaginitis

A strong relationship has been established between the use of hormonal contraceptives and vaginal infection. Certain types of Candida can have up to 70% prevalence in women that take the pill. Studies have shown that Candida prevalence (with several types of Candida documented) is higher in women taking birth control than women who are not. Oral contraceptives have also been found to be the most common cause of vaginitis when compared to any other type of hormonal birth control.



16. Nausea

One of the most widely reported side effects is feeling nauseous right after taking the daily dose of the birth control pill. The severity of this ranges from woman to woman and usually disappears within the first year of use.



17. Trouble Sleeping

If the pill causes the depletion of vitamin c and/or magnesium, the woman is more likely to develop insomnia or another sleep disorder.



18. Other

The following symptoms have been known to be improved by as well as caused by the pill, depending on the woman:

Weight loss or gain

Tender breasts

Emotional sensitivity before period (PMS)

Acne – the pill has been popularized to improve acne yet very few brands of oral contraceptive have been approved for acne treatment. Taking the wrong pill can actually increase breakouts for some women.

Headaches – women who suffer from headaches that are specifically caused by hormones (usually around the time of their period) are sometimes prescribed the pill to help alleviate symptoms. For women who experience other types of headaches, the pill can exacerbate​ the pain and frequency. Women who suffer from migraines with a visual aura and take oral contraceptives, run an increased risk of stroke.

Hair Thinning - artificial progesterone can impede hair growth in two different ways: triggering the shedding of hair before a new growth cycle can be achieved, and increasing hair loss in already genetically predisposed women. Pills containing higher levels of estrogen are sometimes prescribed to improve hair loss symptoms. Unfortunately, elevated levels of estrogen can cause many other side effects.

Fwiw, my wife and I decided against all forms of Birth Control because drugs have side effects and it isn't worth it. We buy condoms and use them + the pull out method just to be sure when she is in her fertile cycle.

Reason for the pull out method of top of the jimmy-hats is because I've had condoms break, so we don't 100% trust them.

But when the fertile cycle is over, it's bare-back time!

2010 CGM Camaro 2SS RS 6L90
Stage II ProCharger D1X
760rwhp @ 14 PSI

JohnC is online now  
post #52 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 11:28 PM
MM's Caller of Bullshit
 
Destination S197's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 7,909
                     
Garage
iTrader: 1 reviews
And here are the side effects of Viagra, which is still covered under provided health insurance.

Quote:
Does Viagra oral have side effects?
The following side effects are associated with Viagra oral:
Common side effects of Viagra oral:
Indigestion--------- Less Severe
Visible Water Retention--------- Less Severe
Temporary Redness of Face and Neck --------Less Severe
Head Pain---------- Less Severe
Nosebleed ---------Less Severe


Infrequent side effects of Viagra oral:
Problems with Eyesight Severe
Acute Infection of the Nose, Throat or Sinus-----Severe
Inflammation of the Nose----- Less Severe
Sinus Irritation and Congestion --------Less Severe
Stuffy Nose--------- Less Severe
Urinary Tract Infection---------- Less Severe
Redness of Skin------ Less Severe
Joint Pain----- Less Severe
Backache -------Less Severe
Dizzy------- Less Severe
Fever------- Less Severe
Flu-Like Symptoms---------- Less Severe
Rash------- Less Severe
Diarrhea----------Less Severe


Rare side effects of Viagra oral:
Depression----------- Severe
Disease of the Nerves--------- Severe
Retinal Hemorrhage--------- Severe
Cataracts ------------Severe
Eye Disease Caused by Blood Flow Problems --------Severe
Poor Vision--------- Severe
Eye Hemorrhage ------Severe
Hearing Loss --------Severe
Angina--------- Severe
Disease of Inadequate Blood Flow to the Heart Muscle----------- Severe
Disease of the Muscle of the Heart with Enlargement---------- Severe
Atrioventricular Heart Block --------Severe
Complete Stoppage of the Heart ---------Severe
Abnormal Heart Rhythm---------- Severe
Chronic Heart Failure------- Severe
Blood Clot in the Brain ---------Severe
Blood Pressure Drop Upon Standing---------- Severe
Abnormally Low Blood Pressure------- Severe
Inflammation of the Esophagus--------- Severe
Blood coming from Anus------- Severe
Inflammation of the Bladder --------Severe
Continued Painful Erection-------- Severe
Skin Rash with Sloughing ---------Severe
Rupture of a Tendon ----------Severe
Abnormal Increase in Muscle Tone----------- Severe
Feeling Faint -------Severe
Seizures -------Severe
Pain--------- Severe
Uncoordinated ---------Severe
Fluid Retention in the Legs, Feet, Arms or Hands------ Severe
Fast Heartbeat--------- Severe
Heart Throbbing or Pounding-------- Severe
Shock--------- Severe
Chest Pain------ Severe
Problems with Bladder Control --------Severe
High Amount of Uric Acid in the Blood-------- Severe
High Blood Sugar --------Severe
Abnormal Liver Function Tests------- Severe
Reaction due to an Allergy-------- Severe
Diabetes that is Not Under Control ----------Severe
Low Blood Sugar --------Severe
High Amount of Sodium in the Blood--------- Severe
Anemia ---------Severe
Decreased White Blood Cells-------- Severe
Migraine Headache Less----------- Severe
Sensitive to Light Less --------Severe
Pink Eye ----Less Severe
Dry Eye---- Less Severe
Dilated Pupil ------Less Severe
Pain in the Eye ---Less Severe
Abnormal Dreams ------Less Severe
Episode of Short-term Memory Loss---- Less Severe
Ringing in the Ears ------Less Severe
Earache --------Less Severe
Abnormal Heart Electrical Signals -------Less Severe
Throat Irritation---- Less Severe
Inflammation of the Voice Box------ Less Severe
Herpes Simplex Infection----- Less Severe
Bronchitis---- Less Severe
Asthma----- Less Severe
Inflammation of the Gums----- Less Severe
Dry Mouth ------Less Severe
Painful, Red or Swollen Mouth-------Less Severe
Painful, Red or Swollen Tongue---- Less Severe
Burning Stomach --------Less Severe
Inflammation of the Large Intestine----------- Less Severe
Inflammation of the Lining of the Stomach and Intestines-------- Less Severe
Bloody Urine ------Less Severe
Swelling of the Testicles-------- Less Severe
Enlarged Breasts---------- Less Severe
Sun-Sensitive Skin--------- Less Severe
Contact Dermatitis ------Less Severe
Itching --------Less Severe
Skin Ulcer---------- Less Severe
Hives------ Less Severe
Arthritis------- Less Severe
Inflammation of the Covering of the Tendon ------Less Severe
Muscle Weakness------ Less Severe
Muscle Pain ---------Less Severe
Nerve Pain-------- Less Severe
Bone Pain---- Less Severe
Drowsiness------- Less Severe
Sensation of Spinning or Whirling------ Less Severe
Chronic Trouble Sleeping------ Less Severe
Excessive Sweating------- Less Severe
Chills--------Less Severe
Involuntary Quivering ------Less Severe
Numbness------ Less Severe
Puffy Face from Water Retention------- Less Severe
Excessive Thirst -------Less Severe
Trouble Breathing ------Less Severe
Cough --------Less Severe
Increase in the Amount of Phlegm -------Less Severe
Throwing Up ------Less Severe
Difficulty Swallowing------ Less Severe
Frequent Urination------ Less Severe
Urination During the Night------ Less Severe
Stomach Cramps------- Less Severe
Weak Reflexes------- Less Severe
Numbness and Tingling --------Less Severe
Inflammation of the Lining of a Joint------- Less Severe
Feeling Weak ---------Less Severe
Gout --------Less Severe
Sexual Problems------ Less Severe
Problem with Ejaculation------ Less Severe
Destination S197 is offline  
post #53 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 11:44 PM
MM Fanatic
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 4,562
               
iTrader: 0 reviews
To put it quite simply, no it isn't "fair" that a religion allows for viagra but not birth control. But, they do two separate things. Catholicism isn't against enjoying sex, it's against preventing pregnancy. As backwards as that seems, it is simply the way it is.

That said, If you were a woman who wants to use birth control AND have it covered by your employer's health care coverage, then simply do not work for a Catholic institution. It's really that simple. As I pointed out earlier in this discussion, if you take employment from ANY employer, and don't agree with their rules and regulations, you shouldn't be working there and instead work elsewhere. Let the people who believe in those rules work there, and there is no issue worth discussing.

What truly isn't "fair" is the federal government forcing a private business of ay kind or individuals to provide something against their beliefs or means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
Woodman is offline  
post #54 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
 
JohnC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 5,024
           
iTrader: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destination S197 View Post
And here are the side effects of Viagra, which is still covered under provided health insurance.
I thought we were talking about contraceptives and abortion?

You bring up supposed benefits of BC and I brought up the negatives.

Viagra side effects are pointless.

That's just to make your peter work when you can't get it to salute and is not a contraceptive.

---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
That said, If you were a woman who wants to use birth control AND have it covered by your employer's health care coverage, then simply do not work for a Catholic institution. It's really that simple. As I pointed out earlier in this discussion, if you take employment from ANY employer, and don't agree with their rules and regulations, you shouldn't be working there and instead work elsewhere. Let the people who believe in those rules work there, and there is no issue worth discussing.

What truly isn't "fair" is the federal government forcing a private business of ay kind or individuals to provide something against their beliefs or means.
Agree.

2010 CGM Camaro 2SS RS 6L90
Stage II ProCharger D1X
760rwhp @ 14 PSI

JohnC is online now  
post #55 of 137 Old November 11th, 2013, 11:47 PM
MM's Caller of Bullshit
 
Destination S197's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 7,909
                     
Garage
iTrader: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
I thought we were talking about contraceptives and abortion?

You bring up supposed benefits of BC and I brought up the negatives.

Viagra side effects are pointless.

That's just to make your peter work when you can't get it to salute and is not a contraceptive.

---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 AM ----------



Agree.
The only reason I brought up Viagra was the following quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novanutcase View Post
True. I just don't like businesses having to be forced to pay for someone elses erotic lifestyle. It's a cognitive choice. Yes, people overeat, don't exercise enough, etc. but sex is a little different.

John
Destination S197 is offline  
post #56 of 137 Old November 12th, 2013, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
 
JohnC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 5,024
           
iTrader: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destination S197 View Post
The only reason I brought up Viagra was the following quote.
Oh. I'll let Nova/John comment on that.

2010 CGM Camaro 2SS RS 6L90
Stage II ProCharger D1X
760rwhp @ 14 PSI

JohnC is online now  
post #57 of 137 Old November 12th, 2013, 12:28 AM
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
Novanutcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 6,062
               
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
Catholicism isn't against enjoying sex, it's against preventing pregnancy.
It's not????....that's not what I was taught in Cathechism.....Sex as a single person is strictly taboo and sex as a married couple was used as an instrument for procreation. Anything else was looked down upon.....

John

SOLD - '03 GT, Max Moto Max Grip Box, Wilwood SL 6 front/DL4 rear Big Brake Kit, Corbeau Seats, MGW Short Shifter, MAC Long Tube Headers/Prochamber mid/ Flowmaster 40, FRPP 4.10, TrickFlow Diff Cover/75mm TB/Plenum, Eaton Posi, Moser 31 spl Axles
Novanutcase is offline  
post #58 of 137 Old November 12th, 2013, 12:40 AM
Pawsitively sexy
 
Sixpointslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lower Sussex, DE
Posts: 10,561
                   
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novanutcase View Post
It's not????....that's not what I was taught in Cathechism.....Sex as a single person is strictly taboo and sex as a married couple was used as an instrument for procreation. Anything else was looked down upon.....

John
Yup. And people wonder why I'm an atheist.

2012 CTS-V

Not stock


Sixpointslow is offline  
post #59 of 137 Old November 12th, 2013, 09:03 AM
MM Fanatic
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 4,562
               
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novanutcase View Post
It's not????....that's not what I was taught in Cathechism.....Sex as a single person is strictly taboo and sex as a married couple was used as an instrument for procreation. Anything else was looked down upon.....

John
Hormonal birth control was invented by a catholic priest who also happened to be a scientist. He created it because in the 50's, the church body decided that it is not sinful for married people to have sexual relations when pregnancy is not possible (not ovulating, elderly couple, etc). Thus, the "rhythm" method was born, and later the birth control pill. It wasn't until the pill was invented that the catholic church changed their stance once again (they do this often) and said that while using the rhythm method is acceptable, preventing ovulation is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
Woodman is offline  
post #60 of 137 Old November 12th, 2013, 11:49 PM
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
Novanutcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 6,062
               
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
Hormonal birth control was invented by a catholic priest who also happened to be a scientist. He created it because in the 50's, the church body decided that it is not sinful for married people to have sexual relations when pregnancy is not possible (not ovulating, elderly couple, etc). Thus, the "rhythm" method was born, and later the birth control pill. It wasn't until the pill was invented that the catholic church changed their stance once again (they do this often) and said that while using the rhythm method is acceptable, preventing ovulation is not.
As far as I understand it the inventor of "The Pill" was an endocrinologist by the name of Gregory Pincus. Hormonal Birth Control was invented by an Austrian scientist by the name of Ludwig Haberlandt. Is Ludwig Haberlandt the priest you are referring to?

John

SOLD - '03 GT, Max Moto Max Grip Box, Wilwood SL 6 front/DL4 rear Big Brake Kit, Corbeau Seats, MGW Short Shifter, MAC Long Tube Headers/Prochamber mid/ Flowmaster 40, FRPP 4.10, TrickFlow Diff Cover/75mm TB/Plenum, Eaton Posi, Moser 31 spl Axles
Novanutcase is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Forums at Modded Mustangs forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome