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post #81 of 391 Old December 18th, 2013, 10:02 PM
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What about pornstars? I'm sure they're addicted to sex, not all but some if not most. Just because I'm 19 doesn't change what I mean, and shouldn't change what you think I meant.

Have I had gay thoughts? Probably. I've probably wondered what it'd be like. Your telling me it's never crossed your mind? Ever? You've never wondered why two gays could be gay? You've never questioned these kinds of things? You just accept it?

I just like how people make up things they love, I get the gay thing. Bi? No. Soon beastiality will be okay because that's "hardwired" in their brain because they didn't know if they liked man or woman.

I hate tomatoes, I hate pickles, but in the right meals, I really like them. Does that make me bi in that case? How is it they both are disgusting on their own, but on a burger they compliment each other so well? What your saying is you'll never like peas, so you'll never like men. But if you ate peas in a dish that made them taste good, then what? Would you question what you've been missing out with peas all along? Or do you continue to hate the pea?


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Clearly you don't understand the definition of addiction. I highly doubt pornstars are "addicted" to sex. They get paid well for it, but most of them retire from "old age" at 30 so they do as many movies as they can to get paid as much as possible.
An addict will throw their life away to get more. They'll skip work, skip school, skip out on important family events, sell all their stuff, steal, lie, etc to keep feeding their addiction. It doesn't matter what they're addicted to, that's what they do.

And no, liking certain foods in certain combinations doesn't make you bi. Are you picking the examples apart just to be a troll, or do you really not get the reference? I don't care for mustard, but in certain dishes it does combine nicely. That's simple chemistry, but I have yet to find anything that makes peas taste good.

And in my opinion, beastiality and incest and other similar things are always wrong because animals are not capable of making that choice, much like pedophilia... It's taking advantage of people/animals that cannot defend themselves and cannot make an informed choice as to what is happening.

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post #82 of 391 Old December 18th, 2013, 10:15 PM
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Clearly you don't understand the definition of addiction. I highly doubt pornstars are "addicted" to sex. They get paid well for it, but most of them retire from "old age" at 30 so they do as many movies as they can to get paid as much as possible.
An addict will throw their life away to get more. They'll skip work, skip school, skip out on important family events, sell all their stuff, steal, lie, etc to keep feeding their addiction. It doesn't matter what they're addicted to, that's what they do.

And no, liking certain foods in certain combinations doesn't make you bi. Are you picking the examples apart just to be a troll, or do you really not get the reference? I don't care for mustard, but in certain dishes it does combine nicely. That's simple chemistry, but I have yet to find anything that makes peas taste good.

And in my opinion, beastiality and incest and other similar things are always wrong because animals are not capable of making that choice, much like pedophilia... It's taking advantage of people/animals that cannot defend themselves and cannot make an informed choice as to what is happening.
So now every pornstar just does it for money? Is that a fact or assumption? You seem uncertain, so we'll take it as an assumption.


I'm not picking example apart to be a troll. I like how I go into further explanation in these threads adding to what others say with a deeper meaning and its considered "trolling". You used vegitables as an example, not me. I'm using the same example you are but clearly your not liking your own example further explained.

But what if I love animals so much I want to marry them? How do you know they don't love me too? You don't. Neither do I, because it's an animal. How do you know people are born bi? Gay? Straight? You don't. Your assuming since YOU can't change your orientation, that people have to be born gay. Am I wrong? So since YOU can't change neither can others is what I'm getting from all of this.


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post #83 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 10:07 AM
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So now every pornstar just does it for money? Is that a fact or assumption? You seem uncertain, so we'll take it as an assumption.


I'm not picking example apart to be a troll. I like how I go into further explanation in these threads adding to what others say with a deeper meaning and its considered "trolling". You used vegitables as an example, not me. I'm using the same example you are but clearly your not liking your own example further explained.

But what if I love animals so much I want to marry them? How do you know they don't love me too? You don't. Neither do I, because it's an animal. How do you know people are born bi? Gay? Straight? You don't. Your assuming since YOU can't change your orientation, that people have to be born gay. Am I wrong? So since YOU can't change neither can others is what I'm getting from all of this.


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As I've already said, animals are not capable of making that kind of choice, neither are children or severely mentally handicapped people. If you "love" your dog so much you have to fuck it, you have a mental problem. It may be hardwired into your brain, I can't say. I'm not a psychologist. I do know that asking a person who is biologically driven one way for whatever reason to stop being that way is a moot point unless they deeply want to change that.

For example, alcoholism. The number one treatment for that disease is to remove yourself from all forms of alcohol. Mouthwashes, rubbing alcohol, etc. Again, I cannot speak for all alcoholics, but the ones I know who are recovering from alcoholism will not touch a single drink, because one becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes three empty bottles and a lot of other issues. My own ex wife threw away our marriage and her rights to our children (not to mention the life of our son) due to alcoholism. It is not a "learned" trait, it is a disease deep in the core of her person. Anytime she takes a drink, she goes on a bender and doesn't come up till someone intervenes.

To bring that back to sexuality... Mineral Grey brought up identical twins that one is gay, one is straight. Raised the same way, same genetics, but yet, two completely different people. Different personalities, different tastes, different. So, that pretty much proves my point in my opinion. It's not a genetic thing, it's something else that isn't tangible. It isn't "fixable" it's just how you are.

Those people who are sexually attracted to kids, or dogs, or horses, whatever... It isn't "fixable". Again, my opinion, but someone who pursues kids or animals is fundamentally broken not because they have different tastes, but because their tastes make them pursue those that cannot choose for themselves if they wish to participate. That is fundamentally wrong. To me, and this is again just my opinion, homosexuality and bisexuality aren't fundamentally wrong so long as the partner is willing and aware of their choice to participate. If a gay man tries to have sex with a non gay man, that's rape just the same as if a straight man tries to have sex with an unwilling straight woman.

For what it's worth, I'm all for expanding our discussion. I asked if you were trolling because I'm trying to find another "hardwired" difference, in my case dislike of peas, that is something I can't fundamentally change in myself. Not trying to distract, but to expand the understanding.

Again I will ask you... Did you have to choose to be straight? I'm not asking about wondering why gay people are gay, because that's irrelevant and doesn't mean you're questioning your own sexuality. Questioning your own sexuality is saying, "Do I find men sexuallyattractive?" and not being sure. I never had to ask myself that. I personally find the the thought of two men together sexually as gross, but I'm sure that there's gay people who think of men and women together as gross. So that's a moot point. I'm just saying, I was never attracted to men. I never had any curiosity as to being sexual with a man because I don't get turned on by them. Therefore, I'm simply not gay. My assumption, being that I'm not an expert, is that if I were to ask gay people about their sexuality, that they would have a similar answer.

And as far as the porn stars, no I don't know that they aren't sexual addicts. However, I can surmise from what I do know that most of them are just doing it for the money. I'm sure there are addicts, just has to be, but to think that they all are is shortsighted. If they were all addicts, they would be fucking everyone, everywhere, all the time because that's what addicts do.

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post #84 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 10:32 AM
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As I've already said, animals are not capable of making that kind of choice, neither are children or severely mentally handicapped people. If you "love" your dog so much you have to fuck it, you have a mental problem. It may be hardwired into your brain, I can't say. I'm not a psychologist. I do know that asking a person who is biologically driven one way for whatever reason to stop being that way is a moot point unless they deeply want to change that.

For example, alcoholism. The number one treatment for that disease is to remove yourself from all forms of alcohol. Mouthwashes, rubbing alcohol, etc. Again, I cannot speak for all alcoholics, but the ones I know who are recovering from alcoholism will not touch a single drink, because one becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes three empty bottles and a lot of other issues. My own ex wife threw away our marriage and her rights to our children (not to mention the life of our son) due to alcoholism. It is not a "learned" trait, it is a disease deep in the core of her person. Anytime she takes a drink, she goes on a bender and doesn't come up till someone intervenes.

To bring that back to sexuality... Mineral Grey brought up identical twins that one is gay, one is straight. Raised the same way, same genetics, but yet, two completely different people. Different personalities, different tastes, different. So, that pretty much proves my point in my opinion. It's not a genetic thing, it's something else that isn't tangible. It isn't "fixable" it's just how you are.

Those people who are sexually attracted to kids, or dogs, or horses, whatever... It isn't "fixable". Again, my opinion, but someone who pursues kids or animals is fundamentally broken not because they have different tastes, but because their tastes make them pursue those that cannot choose for themselves if they wish to participate. That is fundamentally wrong. To me, and this is again just my opinion, homosexuality and bisexuality aren't fundamentally wrong so long as the partner is willing and aware of their choice to participate. If a gay man tries to have sex with a non gay man, that's rape just the same as if a straight man tries to have sex with an unwilling straight woman.

For what it's worth, I'm all for expanding our discussion. I asked if you were trolling because I'm trying to find another "hardwired" difference, in my case dislike of peas, that is something I can't fundamentally change in myself. Not trying to distract, but to expand the understanding.

Again I will ask you... Did you have to choose to be straight? I'm not asking about wondering why gay people are gay, because that's irrelevant and doesn't mean you're questioning your own sexuality. Questioning your own sexuality is saying, "Do I find men sexuallyattractive?" and not being sure. I never had to ask myself that. I personally find the the thought of two men together sexually as gross, but I'm sure that there's gay people who think of men and women together as gross. So that's a moot point. I'm just saying, I was never attracted to men. I never had any curiosity as to being sexual with a man because I don't get turned on by them. Therefore, I'm simply not gay. My assumption, being that I'm not an expert, is that if I were to ask gay people about their sexuality, that they would have a similar answer.

And as far as the porn stars, no I don't know that they aren't sexual addicts. However, I can surmise from what I do know that most of them are just doing it for the money. I'm sure there are addicts, just has to be, but to think that they all are is shortsighted. If they were all addicts, they would be fucking everyone, everywhere, all the time because that's what addicts do.
My gay friends never chose to like the same sex, they just do. I've had this discussion with them until everyone in the room is blue in the face. They just like the same sex for no other reason than that's how they feel. I never woke up one day and went "I think I like women", I just did. When I came of age (sexual maturity), I felt a strong attraction to women but not all women, just the ones that I liked. They've told me that for as long as they can remember, they've been attracted to the same sex, there was no choice in the matter. My closest gay friend said "Why would anyone choose to be gay? Why would someone choose to be a hated minority".
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post #85 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 12:48 PM
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Woodman,


You posted, "To bring that back to sexuality... Mineral Grey brought up identical twins that one is gay, one is straight. RAISED THE SAME WAY, same genetics, but yet, two completely different people."(emphasis mine)_______I never stated RAISED THE SAME WAY. My point is it cannot be genetic. There may very well be environmental factors regarding how one twin was raised slightly different than the other that are unaccounted for. The study I referenced made note of this very point.




You continued, " It isn't "fixable" it's just how you are. "______I can cite studies where it has been demonstrated that homosexuals that WANT to change have had some success. The numbers show that it IS POSSIBLE to change, in certain cases, when a change is DESIRED.

I in no way mean to imply that these people NEED TO CHANGE. That is up to them. How they live their life is not of my concern. BUT, once the debate enters the public forum as in whether societal laws that affect everyone need to change, then it becomes EVERYONES concern. Hence, the current debate.





"Those people who are sexually attracted to kids, or dogs, or horses, whatever... It isn't "fixable"."____Does this imply that a self-confessed pedophile, who has of yet NOT ACTED on his desire, should be locked up? After all, 'it's not fixable'.


"To me, and this is again just my opinion, homosexuality and bisexuality aren't fundamentally wrong so long as the partner is willing and aware of their choice to participate."____Here you imply that consent releases an act from it's evilness. There are 3 things that make an act evil.

1. Circumstance.

2. Intention.

3. An objectively evil act.

I'll touch on just #3, as this, I hold, applies here. I can expound on the other two if need be. An objectively evil act is an act that cannot be ordered in accordance with our human nature. Regardless of the circumstances or the intent, the act itself is evil. For instance, for one to kill an innocent toddler. Under no circumstance or intent is the killing of a innocent 2 year old correct.

Let's say one could go back in time and be able to kill Hitler when he was just a child, the act itself of killing a child, regardless of the good intent or circumstance of preventing the Holocaust, is still evil. The maxim one should not do evil so that good may come applies here. The act of killing a child is ALWAYS evil. Regardless of the circumstance or the intent, the act of killing an heretofore innocent child is evil.

Homosexuality, the ACT not the PERSON commiting the act, is an objectively evil act. Under no circumstance, even if consent is granted, can the act be ordered in accord with our human nature. The very act itself is contrary to our physical structures and hence to our human nature.



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post #86 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 02:26 PM
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I'm not simply arguing that marriage of homosexuals is wrong, but rather that homosexual behavior itself is wrong. If the conduct is wrong, then logically a marriage founded upon such conduct is also wrong...so there's no sense in focusing on the marriage part for it is dependent upon the in/correctness of the sex part.

p1) The function of our sex organs is to reproduce.

p2) This can only be accomplished between a male and a female.

p3) Any other pairing is contrary to the evident function of our sex organs, and to our human nature.

p4) What is contrary to human nature is a perversion of human nature.

p5) A perversion of human nature should not be condoned by society.

Conclusion: Therefore, same sex marriage, seeing that it is contrary to our human nature should not be condoned by our legislature.

Our widely varied applications and uses that we may assign to our sex organs is not in discussion. That our sex organs can have multiple purposes, i.e. allow urination, does not negate my argument. What is under consideration is THEIR evident function that allows reproduction, not what function WE may assign.

That our sex organs can have multiple functions is granted. That the population is in the billions is granted. This does not negate the argument, for if reproduction would cease, in approximately 100 years (not accounting for possible invitro fertilization), all humanity would be extinct, regardless of the high number of human population that currently exists.

Other functions provided by our sex organs: Although intimacy and pleasure is a result of sexual intercourse and sexual activity, it is argued that intimacy, pleasure, etc.. has a function to ensure the continuation of the reproduction of the species by providing a pleasureable experience and thereby ensuring that copulating will occur.

It is argued that the function of intimacy and pleasure during the sex act to create a strong bond between mother and father so that they remain together to care for their offspring, increasing the probability the offspring will grow to be healthy and strong and therefore survive.

Therefore, the only natural relationships are those which conform to the function of the species. Male and female are functionaly manifest in a manner that is complimentary. Homosexuality goes contrary to this complimentary manifestation of our sex organs, and is therefore a perversion of our nature. The term 'natural' is used in context with Natural Law theory.
I used to have the same opinion, until my last job where we had a lesbian working there, honest to god lesbian. She was the "guy", if you will. However, I have met alot of gay people who flaunt it for what seems like attention. She completely changed my opinion on it though. She is a really good person, someone I consider a friend and I don't see why she shouldn't be able to get married if she didn't want to. She just likes girls, who cares? Why does it effect me? It doesn't. I don't look at her any differently than I would my other friends because who really cares at the end of the day if they are gay and a good person? There is people who are gay that flaunt it and that's annoying. But there's also people who are a certain race, financial status, religious beliefs, etc etc that flaunt their certain things too. And I hate all people equally that flaunt anything to the point its annoying. I do not however hate people just for being gay. Same reason I don't hate people just for being rich, of a certain race or their religious beliefs. If they give me other reasons to hate them because of that reason then sure, but not because the fact that they are that thing.
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post #87 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 02:48 PM
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Woodman,


You posted, "To bring that back to sexuality... Mineral Grey brought up identical twins that one is gay, one is straight. RAISED THE SAME WAY, same genetics, but yet, two completely different people."(emphasis mine)_______I never stated RAISED THE SAME WAY. My point is it cannot be genetic. There may very well be environmental factors regarding how one twin was raised slightly different than the other that are unaccounted for. The study I referenced made note of this very point.
Identical twins raised in the same household are for all intents and purposes raised the same. One parent may favor one child more than the other, but that happens in families without twins too. To say it is nurture over nature is sugar coating a lot of intangible things.


Quote:

You continued, " It isn't "fixable" it's just how you are. "______I can cite studies where it has been demonstrated that homosexuals that WANT to change have had some success. The numbers show that it IS POSSIBLE to change, in certain cases, when a change is DESIRED.

I in no way mean to imply that these people NEED TO CHANGE. That is up to them. How they live their life is not of my concern. BUT, once the debate enters the public forum as in whether societal laws that affect everyone need to change, then it becomes EVERYONES concern. Hence, the current debate.
And just like alcoholism, people do not change UNLESS THEY WANT TO. A person typically doesn't change undesirable behavior until they have no other choice. Not saying that homosexuality is undesirable, but if they see their own homosexuality as that, that would be the only way to change, and that is probably due to outside pressure from peers, religion, etc. I would love to see a study on one of these "changed" people throughout the rest of their life, to see how many times they "cheat" on heterosexuality like an alcoholic would on drinking. Your natural inclinations do not change easily.


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"Those people who are sexually attracted to kids, or dogs, or horses, whatever... It isn't "fixable"."____Does this imply that a self-confessed pedophile, who has of yet NOT ACTED on his desire, should be locked up? After all, 'it's not fixable'.
You cannot punish someone unless a crime is committed. Criminalizing someone just because they harbor thoughts not acted upon is tyrannical and unjust. It is the ability to prevent ourselves from acting out on dark or illegal desires that makes us able to function as a society.
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"To me, and this is again just my opinion, homosexuality and bisexuality aren't fundamentally wrong so long as the partner is willing and aware of their choice to participate."____Here you imply that consent releases an act from it's evilness. There are 3 things that make an act evil.

1. Circumstance.

2. Intention.

3. An objectively evil act.

I'll touch on just #3, as this, I hold, applies here. I can expound on the other two if need be. An objectively evil act is an act that cannot be ordered in accordance with our human nature. Regardless of the circumstances or the intent, the act itself is evil. For instance, for one to kill an innocent toddler. Under no circumstance or intent is the killing of a innocent 2 year old correct.

Let's say one could go back in time and be able to kill Hitler when he was just a child, the act itself of killing a child, regardless of the good intent or circumstance of preventing the Holocaust, is still evil. The maxim one should not do evil so that good may come applies here. The act of killing a child is ALWAYS evil. Regardless of the circumstance or the intent, the act of killing an heretofore innocent child is evil.

Homosexuality, the ACT not the PERSON commiting the act, is an objectively evil act. Under no circumstance, even if consent is granted, can the act be ordered in accord with our human nature. The very act itself is contrary to our physical structures and hence to our human nature.



.
Evil is unnatural? It is part of human nature... You cannot have good without bad, and by what marker do we judge homosexuality as evil? Earlier you gave yourself a pass on blowjobs because you "know what the intent of the penis is for" so then the blowjob is just for pleasure. Well... two men having sex or two women having sex with each other is "just for pleasure" so why exactly is it evil? Evil essentially states a religious meaning... Crime is crime, evil is biblical. So if you're choosing to mix your "natural law" idea that you can conveniently change to suit your purposes with religion which also tends to conveniently change depending on who is in charge, so be it. But to classify something that is merely pleasurable as evil seems to be a self serving definition.

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woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
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ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
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post #88 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 03:13 PM
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"She is a really good person,..."____I have no doubt. Why shoudn't she be?



"... I don't see why she shouldn't be able to get married if she didn't want to."____She can legally marry anyone in any state, that she so desires if the other person is willing, AS LONG as the other person is of the OPPOSITE SEX. Same restriction, same freedom. Equal rights.



" She just likes girls, who cares? Why does it effect me?"____do you really believe that you live in a vacuum? That societal laws somehow do not affect EVERYONE to some extent or another?

The decision to allow same sex marriage has broad public dimension because it relates to concerns about how society sets moral standards and so, it involves everyone.


" I do not however hate people just for being gay."____Who said anything about HATE?


"Same reason I don't hate people just for being rich, of a certain race or their religious beliefs." _____No, but by your post it is evident that you DISAGREE with certain religious beliefs, yet most certainly you don't hate. Why then is it that when one disagrees with a certain lifestyle it is labeled as hate?

Why is one side allowed to disagree and it is just 'disagreement', but the other sides disagreement labeled as 'hate'?

---------- Post added at 02:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 PM ----------

__________________________________________________ ________________________


Woodman,

"Evil is unnatural? It is part of human nature...You cannot have good without bad,..."-----This is true, one cannot have good without evil. Does it then follow that evil is natural? To be sure, evil exists, but do we not choose to go against our nature to commit it? Or, if it is within our nature to be evil, is our nature not what it should be? Why would that be?






"....and by what marker do we judge homosexuality as evil?"______If what is true is what is in accord with our nature as made evident by the design of our physical structures, and if what is true is good. Then it follows that what is contrary to our nature is not good, and hence evil. The act of homosexuality is NOT in accord with our nature as made evident by our physical structures, and therefore is not in accord with our nature, and hence not true. Since homosexuality is not true, then it is not good. If it is not good, then it is evil.




"Earlier you gave yourself a pass on blowjobs because you "know what the intent of the penis is for" so then the blowjob is just for pleasure."____No pass given. For I stated, "It is argued that the function of intimacy and pleasure during the sex act to create a strong bond between mother and father so that they remain together to care for their offspring, increasing the probability the offspring will grow to be healthy and strong and therefore survive."



"Well... two men having sex or two women having sex with each other is "just for pleasure" so why exactly is it evil?"____See previous response.


"Evil essentially states a religious meaning... Crime is crime, evil is biblical."____Not neceassarily, could an atheist say that Hitler was evil and yet continue as an atheist? Sure.
Evil, in this context, does not necessarily imply the supernatural.



"So if you're choosing to mix your "natural law" idea that you can conveniently change to suit your purposes...."____Did I 'conveniently change' Natural Law to suit my purpose? Please quote me where I did this.


"...with religion which also tends to conveniently change depending on who is in charge, so be it."____I am not a Romanist, so your point is well taken. Scripture however does not change, and true religion, I hold is scripturally based.


"But to classify something that is merely pleasurable as evil seems to be a self serving definition."____Does a pedophile obtain pleasure in their actions? Are their actions not evil?
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post #89 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 04:18 PM
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Scripture has a lot of contradictions. I don't put much faith in scripture as to what our creator truly wants. Scripture is mans interpretation of what he thinks god wants and many times what he thinks god wants falls in line with whatever agenda he holds to be true.

John

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post #90 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 04:57 PM
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Scripture has a lot of contradictions. I don't put much faith in scripture as to what our creator truly wants. Scripture is mans interpretation of what he thinks god wants and many times what he thinks god wants falls in line with whatever agenda he holds to be true.

John
Again, you present unsupported assertions. Easily dismissed.

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post #91 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 05:30 PM
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When did I ever say it wasn't okay for you to disagree with people being gay? I never did, I typed that on my cell phone like I am this so maybe my choice of words aren't up to snuff if I sat down and wrote a good response.

I find it odd that you care that much about what someone else chooses to do with their life. Its funny because you keep saying you are free to believe that way. True, you are free to believe that way. Going by the same set of freedoms, shouldn't someone be free to be gay if they choose?

Also, I'm so tired of people posting scripture that proves being gay is wrong. Scripture means NOTHING to people who do not believe in it. You cannot use scripture to prove anything at all. You prove something using the scientific method of having a theory and providing hard evidence to back that theory. Scripture is NOT hard evidence, it is the beliefs of one religion. Religion cannot be proved, therefore religion holds no water in the fact that being gay is wrong. If you believe its gross then whatever but you cannot PROVE it is wrong at all.

---------- Post added at 05:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by 2001MineralGreyGt View Post
Again, you present unsupported assertions. Easily dismissed.
How is John saying what he said about scripture unsupported? Every single educated person knows that scripture is not able to be proven. Scripture, and the bible for that matter is an interpretation of what one religion THINKS happened. Scripture and the bible hold no relevance at all in anything other than the church it belongs to. Bring up religion as your proof of something in a research paper and it'll get thrown straight in the trash. Scripture and religion cannot be proven as accurate and therefore cannot even be close to remotely considered in a scientific experiment.
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post #92 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 05:34 PM
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When did I ever say it wasn't okay for you to disagree with people being gay? I never did, I typed that on my cell phone like I am this so maybe my choice of words aren't up to snuff if I sat down and wrote a good response.

I find it odd that you care that much about what someone else chooses to do with their life. Its funny because you keep saying you are free to believe that way. True, you are free to believe that way. Going by the same set of freedoms, shouldn't someone be free to be gay if they choose?

Also, I'm so tired of people posting scripture that proves being gay is wrong. Scripture means NOTHING to people who do not believe in it. You cannot use scripture to prove anything at all. You prove something using the scientific method of having a theory and providing hard evidence to back that theory. Scripture is NOT hard evidence, it is the beliefs of one religion. Religion cannot be proved, therefore religion holds no water in the fact that being gay is wrong. If you believe its gross then whatever but you cannot PROVE it is wrong at all.


Whew! That's alot of assertions there!!

Since, you say you are on your cell phone, maybe you are limited in only being able to type assertions, and are unable (unwilling?) to type ARGUMENTS. That is, a conclusion and the reasons by which that conclusion was arrived at.

Assertion's are very similar to certain odoriferous bodily orifices, seems everyone has those as well.
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post #93 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 06:26 PM
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An assertion.......Im pretty sure every single scientist in the world will agree with me that religion and the scriptures from said religion are NOT able to be used to "prove" anything at alll. You cannot use something as "proof" that in itself has not been proven. It would be like using time travel as proof that we can put a man on mars. Time travel has not been proven, therefore it cannot be used as proof of anything. Its the exact same thing as religion.

Every single one of your posts is the same uneducated BS that basically says we are assuming things. Me stating that religion holds no precedence in ANYTHING but the church it is used in is NOT an assumption. It is simple and pure fact.

I have not seen one thing you have posted, other than scripture that has PROVED why being gay is bad. Other than the fact you think its gross. Which is perfectly fine if thats your opinion. You cannot say you have proof it is bad though when you do not.

Personally, I think your a troll that is trying to get everyone worked up.
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post #94 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 06:48 PM
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An assertion.......Im pretty sure every single scientist in the world will agree with me that religion and the scriptures from said religion are NOT able to be used to "prove" anything at alll. You cannot use something as "proof" that in itself has not been proven. It would be like using time travel as proof that we can put a man on mars. Time travel has not been proven, therefore it cannot be used as proof of anything. Its the exact same thing as religion.

Every single one of your posts is the same uneducated BS that basically says we are assuming things. Me stating that religion holds no precedence in ANYTHING but the church it is used in is NOT an assumption. It is simple and pure fact.

I have not seen one thing you have posted, other than scripture that has PROVED why being gay is bad. Other than the fact you think its gross. Which is perfectly fine if thats your opinion. You cannot say you have proof it is bad though when you do not.

Personally, I think your a troll that is trying to get everyone worked up.

HA! " have not seen one thing you have posted, other than scripture that has PROVED why being gay is bad. Other than the fact you think its gross."____PLEASE, quote me where I either used scripture to base my argument against homosexuality on, or where I said, "It's gross." I'll wait.


"Personally, I think your a troll that is trying to get everyone worked up."____That you have resorted to attacking ME, rather than MY ARGUMENTS demonstrates that you are unable to continue in a logical and reasonable manner.

Earlier on this thread, I was specifically asked WHY I was against same-sex marriage, I proceeded to give REASONS why I held to my view. Ever since, I have merely been defending my beliefs and subjecting them to rigorous scrutiny by those that have an opposing view. How else is one to arrive at truth but by subjecting ones view to the fire?

If one cannot give an adequate response when asked, "Why do you beleive that?", then one does not have sufficient reason to hold that the belief is valid.

To be sure, you hold that I am wrong, so please...show me where my reasoning is flawed. Have I stated a claim that is false? Which one? Why do you think it is false?

This is how a discussion becomes fruitful. To just come on here and say "I think you are a troll", does not further either your beliefs nor mine.
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post #95 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 07:03 PM
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People like you cannot even be argued with. You are so far one way you cannot have an argument at all.

This is like debating the need for a capitalism with Foxwell. Its a never ending battle when someone is so far out there that they do not even consider the other side.

"The man who knows only one side of the case, knows little of that".


Im not attacking you, although I do feel bad for you. It must be hard judging people who have no effect on your own personal life. Who cares what someone does with their life, you dont like it? Tough shit, you dont have to be gay, nor do you have to associate yourself with gay people.
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post #96 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 07:27 PM
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People like you cannot even be argued with. You are so far one way you cannot have an argument at all.

This is like debating the need for a capitalism with Foxwell. Its a never ending battle when someone is so far out there that they do not even consider the other side.

"The man who knows only one side of the case, knows little of that".


Im not attacking you, although I do feel bad for you. It must be hard judging people who have no effect on your own personal life. Who cares what someone does with their life, you dont like it? Tough shit, you dont have to be gay, nor do you have to associate yourself with gay people.


You posted, "Its a never ending battle when someone is so far out there that they do not even consider the other side.", you are so right.


You continue, "It must be hard judging people who have no effect on your own personal life. Who cares what someone does with their life, you dont like it? Tough shit,..."-----Tell me, would this apply to you as well?
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post #97 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 08:07 PM
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People like you cannot even be argued with. You are so far one way you cannot have an argument at all.

This is like debating the need for a capitalism with Foxwell. Its a never ending battle when someone is so far out there that they do not even consider the other side.

"The man who knows only one side of the case, knows little of that".


Im not attacking you, although I do feel bad for you. It must be hard judging people who have no effect on your own personal life. Who cares what someone does with their life, you dont like it? Tough shit, you dont have to be gay, nor do you have to associate yourself with gay people.
So your not gay how do you know "how it is"? How do you think me and mineral feel debating with most people on this forum?


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just wasted my whole night on this thread
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Wait till you waste your entire life on this forum...

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post #98 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 08:14 PM
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Again, you present unsupported assertions. Easily dismissed.
Leviticus? King James Bible Version.....

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."


As you seem to be a religious person would you stick to this decree in regards to supporting putting gay people to death for their acts? If not why not? Does not the Bible say that they shall surely be put to death? Even though every country deems murder as a capital crime would you take exception if it was a gay person that was killed for their lifestyle?

Also, if the Bible is the word of God why are there different versions of it? Isn't God's word pure and absolute? Why would there need to be different versions of one pure message?

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post #99 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 08:19 PM
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Leviticus? King James Bible Version.....

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."


As you seem to be a religious person would you stick to this decree in regards to supporting putting gay people to death for their acts? If not why not? Does not the Bible say that they shall surely be put to death? Even though every country deems murder as a capital crime would you take exception if it was a gay person that was killed for their lifestyle?

Also, if the Bible is the word of God why are there different versions of it? Isn't God's word pure and absolute? Why would there need to be different versions of one pure message?

John
Good job. You can quote the old testament. If you understood the bible more you would know why the new testament was written.


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just wasted my whole night on this thread
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post #100 of 391 Old December 19th, 2013, 08:25 PM
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So your not gay how do you know "how it is"? How do you think me and mineral feel debating with most people on this forum?


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You've never been able to debate. Theres even a burnout box thread for you and your failed debates.

---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 PM ----------

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Good job. You can quote the old testament. If you understood the bible more you would know why the new testament was written.


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And if you could actually debate you would have replied to his post informing him why the new testament was written. Or actually answered his question. However, you now have your new buddy so you jumped back up on your terrible debating soap box again.
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