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post #21 of 136 Old June 2nd, 2014, 10:53 PM
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The more I think on it, the more I see it as a distraction.

What isn't on front page news today? The VA scandal.

What is on the front page? A president breaking the law to "get one of ours back" never mind that the father posts anti american propaganda, the son went AWOL, etc. It stinks to high heaven.
Makes sense.

Six soldiers gave up their lives looking for this guy and he sends home notes to his mother that he is not proud to be an American. This story is blowing up , I will believe the soldiers that served with this guy and there is one common statement being made.....this guy is a real pos.
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post #22 of 136 Old June 2nd, 2014, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah but I think both are pretty big issues in their own right.
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post #23 of 136 Old June 2nd, 2014, 11:06 PM
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As a soldier I will reserve judgement until we get more facts. That said if he is a traitor he should get the death penalty. I agree with fox if I was captured the greater good I'd more important. Leave me to rot no matter how I was captured.

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post #24 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 12:05 AM
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As a soldier I will reserve judgement until we get more facts. That said if he is a traitor he should get the death penalty. I agree with fox if I was captured the greater good I'd more important. Leave me to rot no matter how I was captured.
Shew... Just as I thought there was no hope, someone posted something rational.

This guy may very well be a total asshole who directly caused the death of other soldiers, or he may have not been, but nobody posting here has any real evidence to point to other then hearsay. Jumping to a conclusion is foolish.

As for the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" claim, some of you need to brush up on your history. We've done so plenty in the past, right along with installing evil dictators, selling arms to terrorists, and plenty of other ridiculous things much more likely to bite us in the ass(and they did). That narrative that this is an unprecedented event is such a great example of how this is already just another game of politics.

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post #25 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 03:29 AM
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Also, why don't we put GPS on the terrorists? Implant it and send them on their way lol.
Dude I can almost guarantee you that the CIA has planted micro sized trackers on them.

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post #26 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 06:13 AM
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Foxwell, it's documented in sworn statements and HIS OWN writing that he had turned anti American. How much more.evidence do you need to prove to you that he wasn't a friend? Also, way to skirt around the LAWS that were broken for this deal and go after the only thing they broke that wasn't a law.

---------- Post added at 06:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:11 AM ----------

There's no disputing the laws broken for this deal, and I'd like you to bring up some proof of us actually trading TERRORISTS for Americans. In the past we have traded prisoners of the opposing MILITARY, but no time in the past to my knowledge have we ever fought a terrorist group like we are now, therefore we never flat out traded terrorists for an American before.
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post #27 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 07:33 AM
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Foxwell, it's documented in sworn statements and HIS OWN writing that he had turned anti American. How much more.evidence do you need to prove to you that he wasn't a friend? Also, way to skirt around the LAWS that were broken for this deal and go after the only thing they broke that wasn't a law.

---------- Post added at 06:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:11 AM ----------

There's no disputing the laws broken for this deal, and I'd like you to bring up some proof of us actually trading TERRORISTS for Americans. In the past we have traded prisoners of the opposing MILITARY, but no time in the past to my knowledge have we ever fought a terrorist group like we are now, therefore we never flat out traded terrorists for an American before.
I'm not defending the guy, I'm saying as usual, the angry mob is at it responding to a news headline without any concern for more information.

And what is the difference between a terrorist and a militant if both groups have the end goal of killing Americans? You're reveling in bullshit. We've traded POW's for POW's, guns for POW's, and even ended a war prematurely, effectively rendering the loses suffered a complete waste, for POW's(Vietnam, anyone?).

Let's recap my two points I'm trying to drive home.
  1. We need to let the story unravel before jumping on bandwagons.
  2. This is not some unprecedented move. We've done it, other countries have done it. It happens. It is the way it is.

Let's go over what I wasn't getting at.
  1. Defending anyone, be it the administration, Obama, or Bergdahl.

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post #28 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 08:37 AM
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I based my opinion on comments made by soldiers within numerous articles who say he is a deserter. There are quotes from his letters home outlining his feelings of America. I recall reading he mailed his uniform home also. I guess it is feasible that a terrorist group could have put him up to that after being captured. It doesn't make a lot of sense for a terrorist group to want to label this guy a deserter though. How is labeling somebody a deserter going to help exchange their terrorist buddies? It is more feasible that this guy was anti American and made his feelings known to the terrorists. Most other POW situations with terrorists don't turn out well. How did this guy manage to survive for 5 years without ending up on a video camera with guys in masks taking his head off? It said he is now having trouble comprehending English. It's been about tens years since I ran an excavator but I could jump on one today and be precise with it. Who is to say this guy isn't going to become a domestic terrorist? We just confirmed the first American Suicide Bomber in Syria.

As far as my thoughts on negotiating. I may have watched a few too many war movies lol. There is a lot of back room deals made. I do however have faith that our special operations teams could take out any target and return to us what is ours.
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post #29 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 09:21 AM
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Exactly, we are not basing our claims on one news story. There has been MANY stories about this, since the day he left that outpost 5 years ago, and not one story has ever agreed that he did not willingly walk away, or did not mention his many anti American letters, emails, and actions. Look it up, there is first hand accounts from Soldiers in the field it him, there is letters HE wrote proclaiming his disdain with America and what I means to be an "American". There are flags everywhere and evidence of this guy, and his family spewing ant America propaganda. Then you say you need proof and that we are jumping to conclusions.....Really? Jumping to conclusions? After its been told by countless news outlets, numerous eye witness testimonies from Soldiers who were there, and the fact that he put it in writing is still not good enough for you? And apparently we are the ones jumping to conclusions. ....

What more evidence do we need to start thinking he's a piece of shit? Will it become more official when our almighty government says how much of a POS he is? You know, because they have proved themselves so trustworthy lately....

The evidence is staring you in the face. Hell, the eye witness testimonies should be good enough, but on top of it there is numerous written letters from him. All of the eye witnesses say the same thing, all of their stories line up. Even MSNBC has reported how he is said to be a deserter and his anti American views. And they are always on Obamas nuts. Don't you find it funny how not one news outlet has tried to say he "Served with Honor and Distinction" as Rice told the National media during the address from the White House"?

---------- Post added at 09:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 AM ----------

Also, yeah we have exchanged prisoners at the end of the war before. But we didn't break the law to do so. They deliberately broke the law releasing them. Did they not?
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post #30 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 09:33 AM
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Are you done? The testimonies were far from a consensus. How many troops out at war do you think have ever said to themselves "This war is bullshit". I can assure you the answer to that question is not one guy.

So yes, you are jumping the gun, and you're taking select stories at face value. Your insistence that we don't make trades like this, when that is historically wrong, gives me little faith that your other claim, that evidence is overwhelming that the Sgt was a deserter, is correct. On the contrary to what you are pointing to, the articles I have seen have pointed to the disappearance to this day being shrouded in mystery, not a closed case of this man being a traitor.

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---------- Post added at 09:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------

So much pro America chest bumping going on while simultaneously ignoring a very important tenant of our society. Innocent until proven guilty.

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post #31 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 09:50 AM
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What about this?

Taliban prisoner swap was ILLEGAL and could lead to Obama's IMPEACHMENT

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post #32 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Wow.
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post #33 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 11:02 AM
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That is the only thing I take issue with. I personally don't give a care about the returned guy, deserter or not. He's not the issue. The issue is that the President of the United States flat out refuses to obey the laws, he bypasses all the checks and balances the system has designed into it, and the entire country suffers. Is he the only president to do so? No, he isn't. But it has to stop, and I feel impeachment is a good idea. Let's see how poorly President Biden does. That'll be interesting to watch at least.

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post #34 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 11:16 AM
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Supposedly, this is a written first hand account, from someone who was there.


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Forwarded from Jeff Howard. "We were at OP Mest, Paktika Province, Afghanistan. It was a small outpost where B Co 1-501st INF (Airbone) ran operations out of, just an Infantry platoon and ANA counterparts there. The place was an Afghan graveyard. Bergdahl had been acting a little strange, telling people he wanted to "walk the earth" and kept a little journal talking about how he was meant for better things. No one thought anything about it. He was a little “out there”. Next morning he's gone. We search everywhere, and can't find him. He left his weapon, his kit, and other sensitive items. He only took some water, a compass and a knife. We find some afghan kids shortly after who saw an american walking north asking about where the taliban are. We get hits on our voice intercepter that Taliban has him, and we were close. We come to realize the kid deserted his post, snuck out of camp and sought out Taliban… to join them. We were in a defensive position at OP Mest, where your focus is to keep people out. He knew where the blind spots were to slip out and that's what he did. It was supposed to be a 4-day mission but turned into several months of active searching. Everyone was spun up to find this guy. News outlets all over the country were putting out false information. It was hard to see, especially when we knew the truth about what happened and we lost good men trying to find him. PFC Matthew Michael Martinek, Staff Sgt. Kurt Robert Curtiss, SSG Clayton Bowen, PFC Morris Walker, SSG Michael Murphrey, 2LT Darryn Andrews, were all KIA from our unit who died looking for Bergdahl. Many others from various units were wounded or killed while actively looking for Bergdahl. Fighting Increased. IEDs and enemy ambushes increased. The Taliban knew that we were looking for him in high numbers and our movements were predictable. Because of Bergdahl, more men were out in danger, and more attacks on friendly camps and positions were conducted while we were out looking for him. His actions impacted the region more than anyone wants to admit. There is also no way to know what he told the Taliban: Our movements, locations, tactics, weak points on vehicles and other things for the enemy to exploit are just a few possibilities. The Government knows full well that he deserted. It looks bad and is a good propaganda piece for the Taliban. They refuse to acknowledge it. Hell they even promoted him to Sergeant which makes me sick. I feel for his family who only want their son/brother back. They don’t know the truth, or refuse to acknowledge it as well. What he did affected his family and his whole town back home, who don’t know the truth. Either way what matters is that good men died because of him. He has been lying on all those Taliban videos about everything since his “capture”. If he ever returns, he should be tried under the UCMJ for being a deserter and judged for what he did. Bergdahl is not a hero, he is not a soldier or an Infantryman. He failed his brothers. Now, sons and daughters are growing up without their fathers who died for him and he will have to face that truth someday."
My take is he deserted his post in combat. Court Martial and Leavenworth. And since when do we negotiate with terrorists?

Obama, ya done messed up this time.

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post #35 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 11:20 AM
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There's a FB page "Bowe Bergdahl Is A Traitor". Not saying FB is a good source but it has some info on it. It is prefaced by saying the page in no way was created to advocate the VA Scandal or the Impeachment of Obama. There are pictures of the soldiers who were killed and injured looking for Bergdahl. These include Master Sergeant Mark Allen who is in a wheel chair, and can't speak, basically in a vegetative state. I just saw an interview with his Bergdahl's commanding officer who reported him being called a hero is a " spit in the face".

Like I said before I'm not in the military but work in a paramilitary organization. If a group of people called one of my guys "corrupt" and I knew he wasn't I would defend the hell out of them. When your own guys, your own people, and your fellow soldiers call you out, then there is a real problem and there is truth.
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post #36 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 12:35 PM
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Not read through this thread, but here is my take:

-This was a political stunt to get attention away from the VA scandal; backlashed big time for the administration
-Impeach the asshole that traded five HIGH RANKING TERRORISTS for a DESERTER without giving Congress any notice
-Give the deserting asshole over to a firing squad.

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post #37 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 01:46 PM
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There's a FB page "Bowe Bergdahl Is A Traitor". Not saying FB is a good source but it has some info on it. It is prefaced by saying the page in no way was created to advocate the VA Scandal or the Impeachment of Obama. There are pictures of the soldiers who were killed and injured looking for Bergdahl. These include Master Sergeant Mark Allen who is in a wheel chair, and can't speak, basically in a vegetative state. I just saw an interview with his Bergdahl's commanding officer who reported him being called a hero is a " spit in the face".

Like I said before I'm not in the military but work in a paramilitary organization. If a group of people called one of my guys "corrupt" and I knew he wasn't I would defend the hell out of them. When your own guys, your own people, and your fellow soldiers call you out, then there is a real problem and there is truth.
^This. These aren't "rumors". This is truth. There is things like integrity and taking care of the guy to your left and your right instilled in every troop in the U.S. from the moment they enter boot camp or basic (whatever the hell you want to call it). Yes there will be liars. Yes there will be guys who care about noone but themselves. But, the majority of the nations warriors are not liars, cheats, or selfish. They do not jeopardize their personal standing just to see someone burn at the stake. I do not know these men, nor do I know Bergdahl, but I can tell you that I trust these men's word.

This isn't something you lie about and spread rumors. Desertion, under the UCMJ, is punishable by death. Not only did Bergdahl Desert, but he defected. As in, choose to be the enemy. U.S. troops died looking for him. U.S. troops died because of undermanned positions due to the effort put into looking for him. The Taliban does not keep prisoners. The cut their heads off. So why did Bergdahl manage to stay alive for 5 years?

He's a coward and a traitor and deserves the treatment of both.
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post #38 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 03:53 PM
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Are you done? The testimonies were far from a consensus. How many troops out at war do you think have ever said to themselves "This war is bullshit". I can assure you the answer to that question is not one guy.

So yes, you are jumping the gun, and you're taking select stories at face value. Your insistence that we don't make trades like this, when that is historically wrong, gives me little faith that your other claim, that evidence is overwhelming that the Sgt was a deserter, is correct. On the contrary to what you are pointing to, the articles I have seen have pointed to the disappearance to this day being shrouded in mystery, not a closed case of this man being a traitor.

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---------- Post added at 09:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------

So much pro America chest bumping going on while simultaneously ignoring a very important tenant of our society. Innocent until proven guilty.

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Lol!!! This guy said a HELL of a lot more than "This war is bullshit". Are you even serious now?

---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

Also, I'm still waiting for your links on evidence of us trading terrorists for Americans in the past. Trading military personal for military personnel at the end of the war is much different. Also, it is done following the law. You have provided nothing to.back your claims either, so you saying my statements have no credibility is wrong, especially when yours have none either going by your own definition of credibility.

Or do you plan to skirt around this too by trying to poke holes into my story while avoiding the holes in yours.

---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 PM ----------

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^This. These aren't "rumors". This is truth. There is things like integrity and taking care of the guy to your left and your right instilled in every troop in the U.S. from the moment they enter boot camp or basic (whatever the hell you want to call it). Yes there will be liars. Yes there will be guys who care about noone but themselves. But, the majority of the nations warriors are not liars, cheats, or selfish. They do not jeopardize their personal standing just to see someone burn at the stake. I do not know these men, nor do I know Bergdahl, but I can tell you that I trust these men's word.

This isn't something you lie about and spread rumors. Desertion, under the UCMJ, is punishable by death. Not only did Bergdahl Desert, but he defected. As in, choose to be the enemy. U.S. troops died looking for him. U.S. troops died because of undermanned positions due to the effort put into looking for him. The Taliban does not keep prisoners. The cut their heads off. So why did Bergdahl manage to stay alive for 5 years?

He's a coward and a traitor and deserves the treatment of both.
EXACTLY!
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post #39 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 04:02 PM
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He's a fucking traitor and so are his parents. I pray Obama gets impeached and that pos pfc gets the firing squad.

Here's some articles written by his squad leader and the big dicked hitters that went to get him.


Squad leader: Bergdahl ‘unstable,’ ‘abandoned his post’

OAF Exclusive: The Truth About Bowe Bergdahl ? #OAF





Care packages for the troops!


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post #40 of 136 Old June 3rd, 2014, 04:30 PM
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Did a little more reading on this today. And I have to say I'm leaning towards he's a flat out traitor. I haven't found any articles from those that personally served with him defending him. His folks seem to be in denial as well.

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