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post #1 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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Presidents. Will change future voting habits. Thoughts?

Personally, there's one HUGE requirement for my voting in the future... I do not believe the Commander and Chief of the United States should be authorized to serve as the position without some sort of prior service in the military. That's one big thing I liked about Bush, at least I felt like he cared. This may seem so minor to many of you, but I believe a true leader is one that has walked in your shoes and at one time was willing to put in just as much work as you have. I hate being led by someone that has never wore boots and filled a sandbag (when in reference to any sort of military movement).

The last non-military background President was Clinton... And before that, FDR, which was 1945... So over the past 60 years, we've had 2 presidents that weren't prior service.

Maybe this is my age speaking. I'm 23 and only served during the Obama administration. I really liked how Bush seemed to have DEEP respect for soldiers. I just don't feel that way about Obama. I'm still butt hurt over the whole flags at half staff for Whitney, but none for Chris.


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post #2 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 05:28 PM
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I agree that it should also be a requirement. And the only argument you hear from people against it is "Abraham Lincoln didn't serve, are you saying he shouldn't have been President?"

You dont get to be leader of a company without experience in whatever you are the leader of. But apparently you can be leader of the most powerful Military in the world and make decsions with said Military that ultimately effects the world based solely on what you've read in books and not on experience.

That said, some Presidents have had Military experience that wasn't worth much. I dont mean to say Military experience isn't worth anything. But I will use myself as an example. I obtained the rank of E3 and was an aircraft mechanic half the time and work admin in a hospital the other half. Yes, I have Military experience, but hardly to the level that would make it useful in a position such as POTUS. So simply requiring Military experience is not going to change much. If you want someone with deep Military knowledge you would only be able to elect Presidents that say obtained a rank of 06 and above. And I dont see that happening. On paper it seems like a good idea, but in practice I don't think it would really change much because there is a huge difference between someone who did one enlistment as an enlisted service member, and someone who was in for 20+ years and a high ranking officer. One really doesn't know much about the high level strategical operations of the military that would be useful for the POTUS and one does, yet they both technically served in the Military.
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post #3 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 06:06 PM
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I don't think military experience should be a requirement for the job. The military doesn't have a monopoly on executive experience. You have CEO's, governors, mayors, etc...

As for the respect thing, I suppose it's a matter of what you put emphasis on. I totally agree with the notion that Obama doesn't do a good job of showing personal support for the troops. But is that really your main concern? I'd appreciate kind words now and then from the boss, but working conditions and pay mean infinitely more to me then some sweet talk. When you focus on actual treatment of soldiers (properly supplying, adequate healthcare, etc...) both Presidents Bush and Obama have been outstanding failures.

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post #4 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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I think you are missing my point... For instance, you wore your boots, you wore the uniform... You made it to E-3, served probably 6 years and lets say some Joe just got out of basic training, and all the sudden your Platoon SGT says he is going to be the First SGT... You and every other guy under him that he gave orders to would probably laugh when he gave you an order.

It's a pride thing, I've marched, I'd laid in the mud and the sand, waded through water, completed probably a million push ups for being an idiot... What has he done? Has he filling 100 sand bags, has he done PMCS in the motor pool? Every command that would come out of a presidents mouth, I believe it came from the heart/soul of Bush and from the brain of Obama. Not saying I want a president to act of emotion and feeling, but I like a little compassion... I don't give a **** what rank you are, that stunt Obama regularly pulls, not saluting a soldier back is the biggest, most disrespectful thing I know... This is why I'd probably be in prison right now if I was ever on presidential detail.


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post #5 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 06:19 PM
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Starship Troopers. There are citizens and civilians.

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post #6 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 06:56 PM
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I agree. It sucks sometimes, but it's sort of the same concept as someone going to college and getting a job in the front office bypassing working on the factory floor. Suddenly a 22 year old fresh out of college has authority over middle aged people on the factory floor. It happens everywhere in society.

I do understand your frustration though, and I share it with you.
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post #7 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 07:43 PM
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Isn't the whole point to have the Commander in Chief be a civilian? To keep a balance between the interests of the military and the interests of the country's citizens?

I'm not going to say whether he deserves the title or not, but I'm fairly certain that strategic decisions for the military come with extremely in depth advising from high ranking military officials. I can't say I've ever been in the situation room but I'd bet that's a pretty good guess.

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post #8 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brtnstrns View Post
Isn't the whole point to have the Commander in Chief be a civilian? To keep a balance between the interests of the military and the interests of the country's citizens?
When you are discharged / retire you technically become a civilian again..
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post #9 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by brtnstrns View Post
Isn't the whole point to have the Commander in Chief be a civilian? To keep a balance between the interests of the military and the interests of the country's citizens?

I'm not going to say whether he deserves the title or not, but I'm fairly certain that strategic decisions for the military come with extremely in depth advising from high ranking military officials. I can't say I've ever been in the situation room but I'd bet that's a pretty good guess.
Agreed, but those high ranking positions in the Military are appointed by him.
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post #10 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Nasty View Post
When you are discharged / retire you technically become a civilian again..
Correct, which is why military guys can/have been presidents but its not necessarily a requirement. As someone stated above, just because you've been through the experience doesn't necessarily you can make strategic decisions better than someone else. That's why I doubt presidents make military decisions without any military input.

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Agreed, but those high ranking positions in the Military are appointed by him.
Well yeah, but he can't just appoint his buddy Jim-Bob from college to general.

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post #11 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 08:28 PM
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When you are discharged / retire you technically become a civilian again..
When you retire you keep your rank and become a member of the reserve forces subject to recall in a moments notice. Retired personnel still have access to base/post facilities.

Civilian control over our military is an important part of our constitution. But we have had some Presidents that have pushed civilian control too far. President Johnson and Secretary of Defense McNamara planned strategic attacks from the White House. The theory was that war was too important to let the generals be in charge. Pilots had an approved target list and taking out any target not on the list could lead to a courts martial even if it was shooting at you. They planned the B-52 bombing routes so that the Buffs went in and came out the same way resulting in considerable loss of aircraft. McNamara was considered a business "whiz kid." Great with numbers and statistics he advocated a war of attrition. Taking the enemy's territory was no longer a strategic objective. Body counts were. Our Army would fight sometimes vicious battles to take objectives only to give them back the next day. Since body counts were so important all units were reporting far more kills than they really had.

Fast forward to the first Gulf War. As a fighter pilot President Bush had been shot down during WWII. He listened to his generals. Never underestimate the psychological power of overwhelming force. The bombers blasted the Iraqi defenses day and night, day after day. Then the Army moved. Not to fight and give back but to take turf. Enemy soldiers surrendered by the hundreds and thousands no longer having the will to fight.

Now I ask you which is the better way to fight a war?

Both Presidents had served in the Navy. But they had very different views of how the military should conduct business. Personally, I think civilians should be responsible for deciding whether or not to go to war. When the shooting starts then they should let the experts do their job. I'm biased on this issue but I believe that military service is something that should be considered when selecting a President.

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post #12 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 08:35 PM
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Well yeah, but he can't just appoint his buddy Jim-Bob from college to general.
Then how do you explain Eric Holder
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post #13 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 08:40 PM
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Then how do you explain Eric Holder
Isn't that civilian law? Not military strategery?

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post #14 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 09:56 PM
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i can see what youre saying OP. personally, i think a good president should come from a blue collar, working background.




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post #15 of 22 Old March 26th, 2015, 11:00 PM
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When you retire you keep your rank and become a member of the reserve forces subject to recall in a moments notice. Retired personnel still have access to base/post facilities.

Civilian control over our military is an important part of our constitution. But we have had some Presidents that have pushed civilian control too far. President Johnson and Secretary of Defense McNamara planned strategic attacks from the White House. The theory was that war was too important to let the generals be in charge. Pilots had an approved target list and taking out any target not on the list could lead to a courts martial even if it was shooting at you. They planned the B-52 bombing routes so that the Buffs went in and came out the same way resulting in considerable loss of aircraft. McNamara was considered a business "whiz kid." Great with numbers and statistics he advocated a war of attrition. Taking the enemy's territory was no longer a strategic objective. Body counts were. Our Army would fight sometimes vicious battles to take objectives only to give them back the next day. Since body counts were so important all units were reporting far more kills than they really had.

Fast forward to the first Gulf War. As a fighter pilot President Bush had been shot down during WWII. He listened to his generals. Never underestimate the psychological power of overwhelming force. The bombers blasted the Iraqi defenses day and night, day after day. Then the Army moved. Not to fight and give back but to take turf. Enemy soldiers surrendered by the hundreds and thousands no longer having the will to fight.

Now I ask you which is the better way to fight a war?

Both Presidents had served in the Navy. But they had very different views of how the military should conduct business. Personally, I think civilians should be responsible for deciding whether or not to go to war. When the shooting starts then they should let the experts do their job. I'm biased on this issue but I believe that military service is something that should be considered when selecting a President.
Agreed!

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i can see what youre saying OP. personally, i think a good president should come from a blue collar, working background.
While I don't think it needs to be a requirement I have to agree that it certainly helps in regards to being able to sympathize with the middle class.

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post #16 of 22 Old March 27th, 2015, 04:17 PM
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I think at the very least they should be required to at least hold a real job before office. Not be a spoon fed politician that went to law school, straight into some position and that's it.
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post #17 of 22 Old March 27th, 2015, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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What's keeping military service from being a requirement? I mean you can't make General right off the street.


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post #18 of 22 Old March 27th, 2015, 07:12 PM
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What's keeping military service from being a requirement? I mean you can't make General right off the street.
While I can agree that military service is certainly a plus I don't think it really needs to be a requirement. I will say that I agree that whoever is going to get elected at least have held a real job for a number of years so that they understand what it really is like to try and make ends meet.

I get what you're saying but I think you're limiting your view to foreign policy and what is happening NOW in the middle east. A General may be a great at military command but terrible at fiscal or social issues.

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post #19 of 22 Old March 27th, 2015, 10:07 PM
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We go by the requirements set forth in the Constitution.

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No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

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post #20 of 22 Old March 28th, 2015, 12:03 AM
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With technology and the trends heading towards 'electronic voting', your vote IS NOT IN DEMAND.

It will appear that way in terms of ads and what you hear on tv and radio & via the internet, but the advances in technology today are opening up the door for uncontrolled election fraud.

---------- Post added at 11:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Spurred Snake View Post
What's keeping military service from being a requirement? I mean you can't make General right off the street.
Every person who meets the requirement of US citizen, shoukd be sent to the military, with the exception of those becoming naturalized in their 50s, if they want to enjoy the privilege of citizenship


In fact, the movie 'Starship tToopers' is making more sense to me now than ever...
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