Donald Trump for President. What say you? - Page 105 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #2081 of 2473 Old December 14th, 2017, 08:31 AM
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I have no idea what the CIA does. Neither do you. Neither do any possible source that you might imagine.

I like discussing issues with you. I hate the personal attacks you levy on me.
It would be an attack if it wasn't true. I'm simply pointing out that you support those positions I point out. That you see them as attacks falls in line with your presidents own penchant for being sensitive to the truth.

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post #2082 of 2473 Old December 14th, 2017, 12:38 PM
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It would be an attack if it wasn't true. I'm simply pointing out that you support those positions I point out. That you see them as attacks falls in line with your presidents own penchant for being sensitive to the truth.

John
Actually, that isn't true. You often accuse me of positions that I don't hold just because I'm a conservative and YOU think that is what a conservative believes.

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post #2083 of 2473 Old December 16th, 2017, 11:16 PM
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What’s up guys? 1 year into Trump’s term and I couldn’t be happier. I feel proud. I confidently call two terms for Trump......anybody care to doubt me? ��
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post #2084 of 2473 Old December 17th, 2017, 12:16 AM
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What’s up guys? 1 year into Trump’s term and I couldn’t be happier. I feel proud. I confidently call two terms for Trump......anybody care to doubt me? ��
Me....he's gonna get impeached......

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post #2085 of 2473 Old December 17th, 2017, 02:02 AM
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What’s up guys? 1 year into Trump’s term and I couldn’t be happier. I feel proud......anybody care to doubt me? ��
I doubt it’s 1 year into his term yet since his inauguration was January 20th and we’re still in December quite a few days before Xmas.

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post #2086 of 2473 Old December 17th, 2017, 03:56 AM
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What’s up guys? 1 year into Trump’s term and I couldn’t be happier. I feel proud. I confidently call two terms for Trump......anybody care to doubt me? ��
Border wall- nope
Immigration ban- blocked
ACA repeal- failed
MIDDLE CLASS tax relief- not looking too great
Hold senate/house seats- failed AND look terrible for backing a child molester

But hey, we get awesome tweets!

I'll never say never again though. We live in a fucked up country. That said, Trump better have one hell of a political foil like he had with Hillary. Even that may not save him.

Fox is a perfect example. There has been no noticeable change in the average American's life. I'm your pretty standard 100k a year household of two and shit isn't any better for me. I'm a white male middle class man who listens to country and drives a Silverado with two labs. Am I not exactly the kind of guy the cheeto was supposedly out to help? Haven't seen it. Hell, he fucked the internet and I can't even get it yet.

In a few years when ISP's finally feel safe to come out and they start charging you a special monthly premium for PornHub, remember who allowed it instead of blaming the Democrat in office at the time.
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post #2087 of 2473 Old December 17th, 2017, 06:57 AM
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He's going to have to make it through the primary first. True, he will have an advantage being a sitting president but sitting presidents have been ousted by their party before. If he wins the primary and the Democrats run a moderate that is half way credible he will lose. A lot of the votes that he got was not for him. It was against Clinton. And a lot of people, myself included, was voting mostly because they didn't want another revisionist appointed to the Supreme Court. I have no idea who he will be running against in the primary but at this time I intend to vote against him.

With the left wing of the party taking control I'm not sure the Democratic party can nominate a moderate. We will have to wait and see.

But that is still three years away. Who knows what will happen in three years. North Korea might have nuked an American city. I don't believe anyone is actually that crazy but it is possible. Baring something catastrophic if the economy is booming then he might win it all.

---------- Post added at 06:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 AM ----------

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I'm your pretty standard 100k a year household of two and shit isn't any better for me. I'm a white male middle class man who listens to country and drives a Silverado with two labs.
Interesting. My wife and I broke the $100 mark a couple of years. But we both worked two jobs on top of my military retirement to do it. I worked a full time job and taught accounting courses at night. She worked a full time job and taught anthropology classes at night. An income of $100k isn't exactly middle class. That is closer to the $59k level. $100k is normally classified as upper-middle class.
What Is Upper Middle Class? Income and Other Definitions | Money

But analysts are quick to point out that upper middle class income is location dependent. A person may be upper middle class or even upper class as far as national income levels are concerned but middle class as far as location is concerned.

I'm not surprised that you haven't seen a change in your economic situation. Nothing has been implemented yet. Most most middle class Americans will see a tax break when the law is implemented. Those that won't have been using high state income taxes to reduce their federal tax burden. These seem to be the same states where people with an income of $120,000 think of themselves as middle class.

I fully understand why people do not want to lose the deduction. Absolutely no one wants to pay more taxes but I have a theoretical question: Why should someone in a low or no income tax state with an identical income to someone in a high tax state pay more federal income tax? Why should the first be forced to subsidize the second?

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post #2088 of 2473 Old December 17th, 2017, 09:37 AM
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As far as the border wall, less than a year(as pointed out by T.Lee), you think a wall is going to be planned and completed? Come on that’s ridiculous. As far as immigration I have seen a large boost in activity by ICE. Checkpoints etc. They just showed up in my town and a locked up an illegal from Canada. We will see about the ACA and Tax Relief.

He’s doing what he said. Like I said, I called it before on here that Trump would win the election to receive laughs and ridicule from the “MM Political Wisemen”. How incorrect some were.
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post #2089 of 2473 Old December 17th, 2017, 12:48 PM
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My favorite part of the tax bill is that the tax rate reduction ends in 2025. Historically, it's pretty safe to assume a Republican will be seated for 8 years and then ousted by a Democrat. So they timed it just right to let the tax cuts expire as soon as a Democrat is likely to take over the presidency. Then they'll be ready to fling away "so-and-so increased everyone's taxes!"

Damn the GOP are some serious fucking douchebag assholes.

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post #2090 of 2473 Old December 17th, 2017, 02:21 PM
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That isn't any different than the ACA penalty for not enrolling. The penalty was put off until Obama was re-elected. By the way, fiscal conservatives in the Senate insisted on that clause. They were not confident that the economy would grow as fast as promised and wanted something to reduce deficit spending in case it didn't. Increased deficit spending is also why the Senate insisted on a one year delay before reducing corporate taxes.

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post #2091 of 2473 Old December 17th, 2017, 03:23 PM
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My favorite part of the tax bill is that the tax rate reduction ends in 2025. Historically, it's pretty safe to assume a Republican will be seated for 8 years and then ousted by a Democrat. So they timed it just right to let the tax cuts expire as soon as a Democrat is likely to take over the presidency. Then they'll be ready to fling away "so-and-so increased everyone's taxes!"

Damn the GOP are some serious fucking douchebag assholes.

I was hearing that the tax rate for INDIVIDUALS expire in 2025-2026 but the tax rate that they put in place for CORPORATIONS are permanent if all of it goes through. Hearing that I was wondering why both of them couldn’t be set as permanent or temporary why was one locked in for good and the other put on the temporary block.

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post #2092 of 2473 Old December 17th, 2017, 03:25 PM
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I was hearing that the tax rate for INDIVIDUALS expire in 2025-2026 but the tax rate that they put in place for CORPORATIONS are permanent if all of it goes through. Hearing that I was wondering why both of them couldn’t be set as permanent or temporary why was one locked in for good and the other put on the temporary block.
Correct.

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post #2093 of 2473 Old December 17th, 2017, 06:45 PM
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Things are rarely permanent. Not a single Democrat has voted for tax reduction. Just as soon as the pendulum swings back the other way the Democrats will increase corporate taxes. I'm sure it will be a rallying cry for the next several elections. According to this article the reason that the reduced corporate tax rate doesn't have a sunset clause is to reduce business uncertainty. Obama complained that business had money but wasn't spending it. And he was right. They were trying to survive. They had dug in, sitting on the cash they had, waiting to see what the future was bringing. By reducing uncertainty business can have more confidence in the investments they are making.
Republicans? corporate tax rate isn?t permanent.

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post #2094 of 2473 Old December 18th, 2017, 03:37 PM
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According to this article the reason that the reduced corporate tax rate doesn't have a sunset clause is to reduce business uncertainty. Obama complained that business had money but wasn't spending it.
I see. Corporations need financial stability but the middle class....fuck them......

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post #2095 of 2473 Old December 18th, 2017, 04:03 PM
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Not a single person has said that except you. I posted a link earlier that said 70% of the middle class do not itemize. The doubling of the standard deduction will get all of them a larger refund.

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I see. Corporations need financial stability but the middle class....fuck them......

John
That’s kind of what it sounds like. If not why wasn’t that long term stability given to individuals as well.

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post #2097 of 2473 Old December 18th, 2017, 10:06 PM
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Obama had the stimulus package that was suppose to get us out of the recession. It was very slow to work because he didn't fully understand that Keynesian economics in a global economy stimulates other countries' economies. He complained several times that businesses (corporations) were sitting on cash that could be used to stimulate the economy. Hell, things like taxing savings accounts (yes, other countries do it.) was floated. He wanted them to create jobs. He wanted them to spend their cash reserves because it would create jobs but no one is going to do that if they believe the future is uncertain. General Motors was overextended and went bankrupt. Chrysler was overextended and went bankrupt. Ford, to get the cash they needed sold Jaguar and Land Rover in 2008 for $2.3 billion dollars to get the cash reserves necessary to survive the recession. They survived.


Why would any company spend money when survival is on the line? If you want jobs, the job creators need to think the future is worth the risk or else they will just dig in and try to weather the storm.

Have none of you ever been in business?

The worst years of my life were during the great recession as CFO of a company that was just barely surviving. I absolutely hated calling in long-term employees, people I knew well, to tell them they no longer had a job. We tried to downsize through attrition but that wasn't enough. I know you jackasses think that it is easy but it isn't. We were letting go friends or children of friends. We were a small company with 110 full time employees. One of the owner almost broke down during a meeting when we discussed letting 10 people go. We had no work for them. He said, "You know we are running their lives." I told him yes I know and we will do everything possible to help them, but you need to think of it differently. We are trying to save 100 jobs.

Footnote: Things did get worse. We tried everything. We eventually stopped manufacturing and started importing. I am now retired and teaching. The company is still alive. It has 35 people. Importing takes fewer people than manufacturing.

Want to know where our manufacturing equipment went when we sold it? Some went to the Philippines. The rest went to Brazil. There wasn't a single US company that wanted to compete in that market.

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post #2098 of 2473 Old December 19th, 2017, 05:34 AM
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Obama had the stimulus package that was suppose to get us out of the recession. It was very slow to work because he didn't fully understand that Keynesian economics in a global economy stimulates other countries' economies. He complained several times that businesses (corporations) were sitting on cash that could be used to stimulate the economy. Hell, things like taxing savings accounts (yes, other countries do it.) was floated. He wanted them to create jobs. He wanted them to spend their cash reserves because it would create jobs but no one is going to do that if they believe the future is uncertain. General Motors was overextended and went bankrupt. Chrysler was overextended and went bankrupt. Ford, to get the cash they needed sold Jaguar and Land Rover in 2008 for $2.3 billion dollars to get the cash reserves necessary to survive the recession. They survived.


Why would any company spend money when survival is on the line? If you want jobs, the job creators need to think the future is worth the risk or else they will just dig in and try to weather the storm.

Have none of you ever been in business?
What would have been your alternative? The fact remains that the stimulus package DID pull us out of the recession. I won't sit here and pretend like it was a strong recovery, but ask virtually any economist and they'd agree that things were better off with than without any stimulus.

And those same principles apply to the health insurance market. Republicans have been pointing to the collapsing ACA market and saying "Ha, we told you!" when the reality is they set the thing on fire. The negative rhetoric, the constant attempts at repealing it, ending the mandate. All of these things in various amounts have dumped uncertainty into a market that seemed at one point like it was on the way to stabilizing. It's pretty hard to navigate a road course when one hand is trying to stay on the road and the other is trying to crash the vehicle. Again, not saying that Obamacare was flawless, but it was never given much of a chance either and I'm pretty confident in my belief that there is no better alternative out there for the Republicans to push forward. A lot of Trump supporters are going to be negatively affected by the grand collapse of the ACA and I suspect people aren't going to care about his finger pointing when shit hits the fan.

The same goes for his tax plan. You've got a set of cuts that are going to, at best, deliver a modest cut to some, but not all, middle class families and corporate cuts that aren't going to create this fucking utopia that he and his advisers are touting. These corporations aren't going to use the money to create jobs, they're going to use the money to pay dividends. Yes, many Americans (myself included) invest, but investment earnings skew significantly in the direction of the rich.

The non profit Tax Policy Center analysis of the Trump tax plan says that by 2027 4 out of ever 5 dollars in cuts will go to the richest 1% of the country. Meanwhile, these cuts are inevitably going to be paid for my cutting entitlement programs that almost exclusively hurt the poor. Republicans decried wealth redistribution when Bernie talked about putting money in the pockets of the average guy, yet they cheer this shit on.
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post #2099 of 2473 Old December 19th, 2017, 10:48 AM
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Have none of you ever been in business?

The worst years of my life were during the great recession as CFO of a company that was just barely surviving. I absolutely hated calling in long-term employees, people I knew well, to tell them they no longer had a job. We tried to downsize through attrition but that wasn't enough. I know you jackasses think that it is easy but it isn't. We were letting go friends or children of friends. We were a small company with 110 full time employees. One of the owner almost broke down during a meeting when we discussed letting 10 people go. We had no work for them. He said, "You know we are running their lives." I told him yes I know and we will do everything possible to help them, but you need to think of it differently. We are trying to save 100 jobs.

Footnote: Things did get worse. We tried everything. We eventually stopped manufacturing and started importing. I am now retired and teaching. The company is still alive. It has 35 people. Importing takes fewer people than manufacturing.
LOL what?

See, here's the disconnect. You think when some of us on here bitch about greedy companies we're talking about this kind of company:



But fail to realize we're specifically talking about something more along these lines:



I doubt anyone here has any issue with the smaller, properly maintained companies that follow the rules and are just trying to provide a product people want. We have issues with the global corporations that obliterate or consume competition, while writing the rules themselves through lobbying and bribery, while hoarding cash and shoveling it to the top and skirting around taxation, and then crying about said taxes and using that bitching to justify laying off staff, if only they could be tax-free then they would hire everyone! boohoo woe is the corporation! Then they get said tax cuts so they buy out or undercut smaller businesses, destroying jobs in the process and investing in automation at every turn, continuing to destroy jobs.

I hope you're still around the day that the trucking industry gets hit buy automation. We'll see what kind of boogeyman the GOP blames the collapse of the economy on when 3.5 million people simultaneously find themselves out of work with the majority of them not having transferable skills to new industries and only a relative handful needed to maintain a fleet.

---------- Post added at 07:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 AM ----------

Also, I've been on the receiving end of layoffs. I didn't hold it against my boss. He was visibly distraught over having to walk me out. But you think the guys calling the shots from the top of a 150,000 employee global corporation give a shit? Yeah right.

But you know what I do and what most people that witnessed the events of 2008 should do? I constantly make sure I'm developing skills that can be transferred to different industries to ensure that I can always find employment in the event that I lose a job. What do we call that? Hard work maybe? And coming from me? The entitlement generation? Yet we coddle these people and prop up dying industries because it's all these people know? GTFO.

This is the world we live in post-2008. Very few companies reward loyalty. You've constantly got to have your eye on something else. Luckily, after three companies, I've finally found a company that I feel loyal to and that's because its small and is privately owned. I even have a friendly personal relationship with the president. The second it gets bought out by a larger company or goes public and starts focusing on shareholders? You can bet your ass I'll be getting my resume ready in case I end up facing a situation where I have to move on.

I didn't take it personally when I got laid off. I didn't cry to a politician to prop up the oil industry artificially so I could have my precious job back. I fucking moved on and went into a more stable industry. Yet I'm the dirty liberal millenial that thinks he's entitled to everything since I received participation trophies growing up. Yeah...

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post #2100 of 2473 Old December 19th, 2017, 11:04 AM
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I doubt anyone here has any issue with the smaller, properly maintained companies that follow the rules and are just trying to provide a product people want. We have issues with the global corporations that obliterate or consume competition, while writing the rules themselves through lobbying and bribery, while hoarding cash and shoveling it to the top and skirting around taxation, and then crying about said taxes and using that bitching to justify laying off staff, if only they could be tax-free then they would hire everyone! boohoo woe is the corporation! Then they get said tax cuts so they buy out or undercut smaller businesses, destroying jobs in the process and investing in automation at every turn, continuing to destroy jobs.

I hope you're still around the day that the trucking industry gets hit buy automation. We'll see what kind of boogeyman the GOP blames the collapse of the economy on when 3.5 million people simultaneously find themselves out of work with the majority of them not having transferable skills to new industries.
Exactly. What I want is for these size corps to be left alone to be able to do business in both a safe and RESPONSIBLE way. Not just deregulating said industry so that they don't have to buy so many safety goggles or pollute streams at will because profit. That is what happens when you get conservatives legislating taxes and corporate law. They see things in only black and white. Either the economy or the environment. They don't realize that we can do both. Look at Buffalo. Tesla worked with their administration to open a battery factory that will employ more people than when the steel mills were running at full clip without having to pollute the locale in the process yet conservatives see that as a threat.

They say they are trying to unrestrain corps from the chains of regulation yet those same corps are having record profits. It's disingenuous and an outright lie for them to say that we need to goose the economy. The economy is doing great in regards to the stock market and corporate earnings(the big boys not the little corps). The one sector that isn't is wage gap whos chasm continues to widen regardless of the fact that more money in middle class hands has proven out to reliably improve the economy. Yes I know, the Tax bill does that.....for most.....and only for the next 5 years. GOP Senators promise that when that 5 years comes up they will extend it but that historically isn't the case.

The problem I see is that, in the Reagan era that conservatives continually point to as evidence of their austerity model having been successful, there was really no place to go for corps when it came to manufacturing as offshoring was the exception rather than the rule and public perception of American quality kept it that way. That's why lowering taxes helped them expand but todays corps are more inclined to use the increase in their bottom line to effect stock buybacks and pay out investor dividends. Job creation is very low on the priority list. Corps have admitted that this is exactly what they will be doing yet conservatives continue to push this awful tax bill simply to satiate Nero and have SOMETHING to talk about come 2018.

John
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SOLD - '03 GT, Max Moto Max Grip Box, Wilwood SL 6 front/DL4 rear Big Brake Kit, Corbeau Seats, MGW Short Shifter, MAC Long Tube Headers/Prochamber mid/ Flowmaster 40, FRPP 4.10, TrickFlow Diff Cover/75mm TB/Plenum, Eaton Posi, Moser 31 spl Axles
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