Record Gun Sales Surge Continue As Democrats Push Confiscation - Page 2 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #21 of 40 Old December 9th, 2015, 03:52 PM
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What worries me about CCW and open carry is exactly what you illustrated. I honestly think that in an active shooter situation a typical CCW or open carry citizen will, more than likely, make the situation worse rather than better along with probably hurting an innocent by accident. I understand the whole concept of having a weapon for self defense but studies have shown and continue to show that in active shooter incidents most people carrying will make the situation worse if they draw their weapon and fire. Most police also agree. I've read articles where police have said that even with their continued training in active shooter scenarios they have a hard time taking the shooter out and, unless the private citizen continually trains for that scenario, they will, more than likely, make the situation worse for him and those around him.

John
I would be interested to see these studies.

I have seen articles in the past where CCW holders have stopped situations before they became a big headline. So I've seen several examples and heard people's opinions. But I have never seen any studies that prove it's worse. I would have imagined those studies would be plastered in the media.

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post #22 of 40 Old December 9th, 2015, 05:41 PM
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Isn't it refreshing that the left has finally admitted their goal is a total ban and confiscation of firearms? Now that they have shown their hand we need to double down on protecting our right to keep and bear arms!
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post #23 of 40 Old December 13th, 2015, 11:39 PM
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Isn't it refreshing that the left has finally admitted their goal is a total ban and confiscation of firearms? Now that they have shown their hand we need to double down on protecting our right to keep and bear arms!
They did? When?

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post #24 of 40 Old December 14th, 2015, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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Isn't it refreshing that the left has finally admitted their goal is a total ban and confiscation of firearms? Now that they have shown their hand we need to double down on protecting our right to keep and bear arms!
The NYT was calling for an all out gun ban and confiscation, too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/op...rica.html?_r=0

The New Republic also.

https://newrepublic.com/article/1254...-guns-yes-them

Hillary Clinton is already on record that she wants an AWB and would even consider an Aussie ban and mandatory buyback.

She has also called NRA members terrorists basically: http://time.com/2891821/hillary-clin...6-gun-control/

This Ban & Confiscation talk came about after Republicans pointed out that Gun Control doesn't work by citing CA restrictive Assault Weapons laws and how they did nothing to stop those terrorists.

Those terrorists did not care about the law and illegally swapped out the bullet button, used 30rd mags anyway, etc., from what I heard.

Only folks who follow the law are us, not criminals, and terrorists. When they make stupid anti-2A laws, it just makes everyone else less safe because it limits our weapons to defend ourselves with.

Hey, murder and mass murder is against the law, too, but the law never stopped anyone from it before.

They can make all the laws they want, but anyone who sets their mind to killing can do it easily in a number of ways, with or without guns.

I'd much rather those people been armed in San Bernardino so they could have fought back.

---------- Post added at 07:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 AM ----------

Looks like Bernie is in for the ban....

Bernie Sanders Doubles Down On Gun Control

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“The president is right. Condolences are not enough,” Sanders said in an interview with MSNBC’s Chris Hayes on Thursday. “We’ve got to do something … We need sensible gun control legislation.”

Sanders, a Democratic presidential hopeful, went on to specify that he supports banning assault weapons and closing the loophole that exempts private, unlicensed gun sales from background checks -- often known as the “gun show loophole.

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post #25 of 40 Old December 14th, 2015, 09:12 AM
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President Obama and Democrat frontrunner Hillary Clinton have both signaled support for “Australian-style” gun control, which is forced confiscation.
This has always been the ultimate goal of the left. But they used to think they could accomplish it in small increments so that no one would really notice. They have become impatient with the process.
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Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton has said that the Supreme Court is wrong on the Second Amendment, that Australian style mandatory gun buybacks should be considered in the United States, and that she would implement new gun control through executive action.
More proof that Democrats do not believe in the Constitution. They want things and they are not about to let the Constitution, Supreme Court, Congress or anything else stop them. They have become encouraged by Obama's executive actions and yearn for more.

I ran across this in Wikipedia looking up Hitler the other day. I do not consider Wikipedia a reliable source but this was interesting. I highlighted the more interesting phrases.
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The Great Depression provided a political opportunity for Hitler. Germans were ambivalent to the parliamentary republic, which faced strong challenges from right- and left-wing extremists. The moderate political parties were increasingly unable to stem the tide of extremism, and the German referendum of 1929 helped to elevate Nazi ideology.[120] The elections of September 1930 resulted in the break-up of a grand coalition and its replacement with a minority cabinet. Its leader, chancellor Heinrich BrŁning of the Centre Party, governed through emergency decrees from President Paul von Hindenburg. Governance by decree would become the new norm and paved the way for authoritarian forms of government.
I do not think it is possible to legally implement Australian style confiscation by decree. But neither Obama nor Clinton care about the law. Their base in the northeast and west coast are cheering them on and they couldn’t care less about flyover country. Rule by decree might just be enough to make Montana,Texas and other flyover states succeed.
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Law enforcement professionals have stated that such an effort would lead to a civil war. It is reasonable to conclude that many of those purchasing firearms and ammunition by the 1,000-round case are stocking up for that exact possibility.
People are fools if they believe they can alone defeat the full force of the government when it comes for their guns. But if the states once again succeed then it could lead to civil war.
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post #26 of 40 Old December 14th, 2015, 12:43 PM
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They did? When?

John
Nearly every liberal media outlet has called for an all out confiscation and many democrats have said so as well. Google that shit!
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post #27 of 40 Old December 14th, 2015, 12:46 PM
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I posted this in another thread. It applies here as well.

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Just a thought but we are probably one seat away from having our Constitutional rights interpreted away. We have an aging Court. If Clinton wins she will fill that seat with someone who will let her take away Constitutional rights by executive order.
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post #28 of 40 Old December 14th, 2015, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Nearly every liberal media outlet has called for an all out confiscation and many democrats have said so as well. Google that shit!
No no no.... That's just right wing tin foil hattery! Democrats aren't patently anti-second amendment and no they don't want all our guns! They just want common sense gun control!

Seriously. I knew it was coming.

Until they slipped up and couldn't hold in their end goal any longer because republicans kept pointing out their stupid gun control doesn't work and criminals don't follow gun control laws (San Bernardino Terrorist attack), they had everyone fooled. Oops! Now the cat's out of the bag!

Watch them. Soon all the liberal media is going to backpedal when they see their popularity shrink over this.

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post #29 of 40 Old December 14th, 2015, 01:22 PM
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I agree that a ban will do nothing but I just haven't been seeing the onslaught of media decreeing this although I've been pretty busy lately so I haven't been watching the news much.

As far as all Democrats wanting gun confiscation I think you're all wrong. Sure there are idiot leftists just like there are right wing nut jobs but, at least from the small slice of Dems that I know, none of them want guns confiscated.

There is one woman in particular that is a friend of one of my liberal friends that is completely fringe. She wants all guns confiscated. Her and I continually have arguments about this whenever we meet. She keeps saying that if no guns are available then no one can use them to kill anyone. I remind her that the Tsarnaev Brothers used a pressure cooker to do their dirty work. Should we ban pressure cookers?

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post #30 of 40 Old December 14th, 2015, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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I agree that a ban will do nothing but I just haven't been seeing the onslaught of media decreeing this although I've been pretty busy lately so I haven't been watching the news much.

As far as all Democrats wanting gun confiscation I think you're all wrong. Sure there are idiot leftists just like there are right wing nut jobs but, at least from the small slice of Dems that I know, none of them want guns confiscated.

There is one woman in particular that is a friend of one of my liberal friends that is completely fringe. She wants all guns confiscated. Her and I continually have arguments about this whenever we meet. She keeps saying that if no guns are available then no one can use them to kill anyone. I remind her that the Tsarnaev Brothers used a pressure cooker to do their dirty work. Should we ban pressure cookers?

John
You're right. Most of them just want to do it in small progressive steps like they have been doing the whole time, fighting tooth and nail to restrict, limit and ban firearms.

Read: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015...-united-states

They left out the ban on 7N6 AK74 ammo via BATFE (which IMHO should not be legal). http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...45x39-imports/

NRA also left this out of the timeline, I guess because they want to hide the fact that they did NOTHING to stop it before or after.

Charles Wrangle stole our 2A rights when he counted the voice vote on the Hughes Amendment to ban full auto's aka machine guns as Yea's when it was clearly Nay's. When called out on it and asked to take an electronic vote, he agreed, and it clearly showed the Nay's had it on the Hughes Amendment (see screen shot or watch whole video), but he ignored it and falsely counted the voice vote as majority Yea.

This is the circus that caused us to lose some major 2A rights:




And John, I think Calguns are the ones who searched the Library of Congress and found that. Nice how they unconstitutionally stole our rights even when the majority vote in committee was Nay.

That shit needs to be overturned. I want my rights back! Charles Rangel should have been impeached for abusing his power and falsely counting Nay's as Yea's.
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post #31 of 40 Old December 14th, 2015, 04:37 PM
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I heard on a Canadian radio station this morning that Canada just passed a universal gun registration. Guns owners have 12 months to register their rifles and shotguns, which can be done free online they stressed. Pistols were already previously registered like the US. Good luck woth your new Commie President, Canada

Our pistols are not "registered" with the government. It is against federal law to have a national gun registry, whether it's a pistol, rifle, etc. You may be registered locally somehow, but no place I've lived has registered firearms with their local government.
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We with ever see a surplus 1911 on the market. I hope so because I would buy one. But I won't hold my breath.
They are coming to market, but they will be hard to come by due to popularity, and many, many of them have been in use since they were originally built (many dating back to the 1930's) and may have seen service. They will be very tired, very worn, and most likely need a few replacement parts. I used to shoot my Grandfather's "Property of the United States" 1911 when I was a kid, and my box stock Springfield 1911A1 is much more accurate. Best I could shoot was a 4" grouping with my granddad's, my gun will shoot 2" groups all day long.

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I have a little Kel-Tec P3AT for a carry gun, it's a tiny pocket gun - not much heavier than an iPhone. So it's easy to just toss in a pocket and go. But I'm starting to wonder what I might actually accomplish, should I ever have to use it. Brandishing a gun is one thing - actually defending yourself (or someone else) with a gun is a whole different matter. I mean ... how many people who carry could actually hit their intended targets without exacerbating the situation or endangering more people? Unless I was really close, I'm not confident I could improve a terrorist/gunman situation with my little .380.

When I took my CCW class, I got a chuckle during the shooting tests. Virtually everyone in the class brought long-barreled .22 revolvers or full frame big cal autos for taking their tests. Since you can use "any handgun" for the shooting test, nobody risked using a little pocket gun - but the majority of them planned to actually carry something small and compact like me.

I know this seems odd, but perhaps we need to have a national discussion about choice or weapon and marksmanship. Whatever value the self-defense/vigilante types might provide against terrorism - it would surely be improved by making them better trained and equipped. What do you think?
Ideally in a CCW situation you're defending yourself because you're in an immediate threat situation. Thus, your assailant is within or about to be within arm's reach. We're not supposed to be shooting across malls and past unarmed people to hit the "bad guy".

The shooting qualification for CCW is a joke, but for it's intended purpose, hitting someone within 20 feet of you while full of adrenaline, it's fairly accurate.

---------- Post added at 02:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 PM ----------

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What worries me about CCW and open carry is exactly what you illustrated. I honestly think that in an active shooter situation a typical CCW or open carry citizen will, more than likely, make the situation worse rather than better along with probably hurting an innocent by accident. I understand the whole concept of having a weapon for self defense but studies have shown and continue to show that in active shooter incidents most people carrying will make the situation worse if they draw their weapon and fire. Most police also agree. I've read articles where police have said that even with their continued training in active shooter scenarios they have a hard time taking the shooter out and, unless the private citizen continually trains for that scenario, they will, more than likely, make the situation worse for him and those around him.

John
I have yet to be in a situation where i have to draw my weapon, but I think too much armchair quarterbacking is done as to what the "typical CCW holder" will do.

The intent isn't to stop a mass shooting, save everyone and get your own action movie franchise. The intent is to defend YOURSELF. So, let's pretend we have a responsible CCW holder in the mall with his family and someone starts shooting with an AK-47. My assumption is that the primary instinct is to find out where the gunfire is coming from, and take cover. Draw weapon so that if the shooter approaches you, you have the OPPORTUNITY to defend yourself. No one expects you, or should expect you, to go running in guns blazing and clear the room of threats. That's not the point of CCW.

If you do get the opportunity to take out the active shooter, great! But I wouldn't go looking for that opportunity. I'd be trying to stay out of the line of fire.

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post #32 of 40 Old December 14th, 2015, 04:38 PM
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Im a democrat and I encourage people to buy guns.
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post #33 of 40 Old December 14th, 2015, 05:05 PM
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As far as all Democrats wanting gun confiscation I think you're all wrong. Sure there are idiot leftists just like there are right wing nut jobs but, at least from the small slice of Dems that I know, none of them want guns confiscated.

There is one woman in particular that is a friend of one of my liberal friends that is completely fringe. She wants all guns confiscated.
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Im a democrat and I encourage people to buy guns.
You guys should probably check the Democrat's party platform. Everything Obama has been trying to do is in his party's platform. I used to be an independent voting for the man not the party. We had some very good, moderately conservative Democrat representatives... until they got to Washington D.C. I still remember Evan Bayh's comment when he voted against the wishes of Indiana. He said he was voting for the good of his party. He retired after that. He is the only one that said it out loud but all Democrats yield to the DC establishment.

We have to live with the two party system. I may not like the Republican candidate but I refuse to trust the Democrat's candidate anymore. He may talk moderate in Indiana but he will vote liberal in DC.
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post #34 of 40 Old December 14th, 2015, 09:18 PM
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I was surprised how many crazy fucks decide to come out of the closet and reveal how crazy they are in the fucking store. I'm just working a shitty job trying to buy some shitty groceries and this crazy fuck walks in and starts going ape shit on people. I was referring to an older video about an Aldi crazy fuck but then there was a recent one at Walmart. I just want something more than bologna to throw at him.

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 PM ----------

Cops: Man choked woman at grocery store after argument over cellphone - Post-Tribune

Richmond man dies following altercation outside liquor store - Richmond Standard

Whole Foods fires security firm after violent altercation with shopper at Oakland store | abc7news.com

One person injured after fight outside local liquor store | WREG.com

Fight escalates and leads to shot fired at Davenport convenience store | WQAD.com

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post #35 of 40 Old December 15th, 2015, 04:57 PM
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I have yet to be in a situation where i have to draw my weapon, but I think too much armchair quarterbacking is done as to what the "typical CCW holder" will do.

The intent isn't to stop a mass shooting, save everyone and get your own action movie franchise. The intent is to defend YOURSELF. So, let's pretend we have a responsible CCW holder in the mall with his family and someone starts shooting with an AK-47. My assumption is that the primary instinct is to find out where the gunfire is coming from, and take cover. Draw weapon so that if the shooter approaches you, you have the OPPORTUNITY to defend yourself. No one expects you, or should expect you, to go running in guns blazing and clear the room of threats. That's not the point of CCW.

If you do get the opportunity to take out the active shooter, great! But I wouldn't go looking for that opportunity. I'd be trying to stay out of the line of fire.
I guess my original post was pointed at those that would try and stop the AS. Studies have shown that when citizens get into the fray innocents are at a much higher risk of being hit than if the citizen didn't fire a shot. Most police suggest what you posted rather than actively trying to go after the shooter and I agree in that instance and fully support someone carrying. My worry is that when the adrenaline is pumping and human nature takes over they're more than likely going to try and take out the AS. Police have confirmed that even they with all the training they do have a hard time taking down an AS so a civilian that doesn't regularly train in that scenario will, more than likely, make the situation worse. I read one article where a policeman said that it also puts the citizen in danger since when the police arrive they don't know who the actual AS is so if you're in a gun battle with the AS you will be a suspect until they can determine who is the bad guy and that could end very badly for the citizen.

John
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post #36 of 40 Old December 15th, 2015, 05:19 PM
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I guess my original post was pointed at those that would try and stop the AS. Studies have shown that when citizens get into the fray innocents are at a much higher risk of being hit than if the citizen didn't fire a shot. Most police suggest what you posted rather than actively trying to go after the shooter and I agree in that instance and fully support someone carrying. My worry is that when the adrenaline is pumping and human nature takes over they're more than likely going to try and take out the AS. Police have confirmed that even they with all the training they do have a hard time taking down an AS so a civilian that doesn't regularly train in that scenario will, more than likely, make the situation worse. I read one article where a policeman said that it also puts the citizen in danger since when the police arrive they don't know who the actual AS is so if you're in a gun battle with the AS you will be a suspect until they can determine who is the bad guy and that could end very badly for the citizen.

John
You bring up "human nature" taking over. I know that my human nature is to not get my ass shot, not put myself in a vulnerable position if I can help it, and escape it in any way I can. If I can help someone else survive at the same time, bonus, but if it's just me in a mall and a gunman opens fire, I'm gone unless he's between me and the door. I have no desire to be the hero of the day, I have no desire to do anything but survive the day. I think that "human nature" is first and foremost self preservation. That's why so many people hide and run in these situations, they don't want to get shot. I know a lot of people love to brag about how they'd have taken care of some active shooter in some situation, but 99% of that is armchair quarterbacking or what they wish they would do vs. what they would actually do.

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post #37 of 40 Old December 15th, 2015, 07:39 PM
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If I see a situation where a dude has a hand gun or 2 or three guys have handguns, (pussy thug group) I would have a hard time just bolting to the door if I had something to stop them with. Now if they come in as a group of people with a hell of a lot more ammo than me on a completely different task of terrorism, then I am just out. If I am in a position to at least make 'em stop (pussy thug group) and draw their attention on me, and I have the cover. Most of the pussy thug groups I have seen go in with a gun but once a single shot is fired at them, they run like cockroaches (most of the time). If I go to jail then so be it. If it's in a public place, there should be cameras. If it's hand gun vs hand guns I think it's going to be on.

If it's like this



I'm going do the same thing as the cop.

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post #38 of 40 Old December 15th, 2015, 11:59 PM
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If I see a situation where a dude has a hand gun or 2 or three guys have handguns, (pussy thug group) I would have a hard time just bolting to the door if I had something to stop them with. Now if they come in as a group of people with a hell of a lot more ammo than me on a completely different task of terrorism, then I am just out. If I am in a position to at least make 'em stop (pussy thug group) and draw their attention on me, and I have the cover. Most of the pussy thug groups I have seen go in with a gun but once a single shot is fired at them, they run like cockroaches (most of the time). If I go to jail then so be it. If it's in a public place, there should be cameras. If it's hand gun vs hand guns I think it's going to be on.

If it's like this



I'm going do the same thing as the cop.
See, my whole purpose in having a CCW is self preservation. If I or my family is attacked, I want the ability to defend myself/family. I'm not going up against a "pussy thug" group if I don't have to. I honesty don't differentiate between a group of "thugs" and a group of "terrorists", the end result is the same. They shoot up the place, terror ensues, thus to me it's ALL terrorism.

That said, if I have the opportunity to take out the threat, I'll respond as needed. If I don't or I'm not sure what's going on yet, I'm going to retreat to a less dangerous area if possible and assess my options. I don't have anything to prove. I don't care how my actions are observed, I just want to leave with my life and my family alive, and I'll do what is necessary to make that happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
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post #39 of 40 Old December 16th, 2015, 12:06 AM
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Well you have a family, so you have a lot to live for

I live to show up for work on time.

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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
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post #40 of 40 Old December 16th, 2015, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dr.gonzo! View Post
Well you have a family, so you have a lot to live for

I live to show up for work on time.
I've always had the come out alive mentality.

If you don't want to stay alive, you're too easy to pick off and thus no longer a threat to the bad guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
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