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post #1 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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What is your stand on minimum wage?

In Florida the minimum wage sits at $8.05/hour.

Working 40 hours a week that comes out to $322 before taxes, or $267.26 after taxes.

That's $1069.04 a month! Now,

Housing: here in South Florida you will not find a one bedroom apartment for less than $650 a month. So lets say you move into a 3/4 bedroom apartment with a couple of roommates and pay $400/month. Or maybe move into a trailer home and pay $350.

Electricity: if you live in a 4 bedroom apartment in Florida you will be paying about $50 in electricity per room.

Water: $10/month/room.

Cell phone: Cheapest plan is Metro PCS at $35 with no data.

Lets be realistic, you need a car in South Florida. Public transportation sucks, and everything is far. Insurance will run you about $75/month for the cheapest policy out there.

Gas: if you are lucky and don't work too far away, you might be able to get away with $20/week.

Health insurance: $30-$60 if you are under Obama Care.

So, living in a trailer home, using a cellphone with no data, having no internet or cable at home, having a auto insurance policy that does not cover anything, and barely driving around, you are looking at ~$650/month.

That leaves you about $100 a week to eat, go out, buy cloths, pay for your car, save up for emergencies...

It seems almost ridiculous that someone working 40 hours a week in one of the most advanced countries in the world has to live like this.


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post #2 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 11:51 AM
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If you're past about the age of 25 and still working for minimum wage, you need to look in a mirror to find the problem. Minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage. Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be careers. Of course the younger generation is going to be impacted by this more because you guys are just starting out in the workforce. As you get experience and gain skills, you will move up the corporate ladder and success will follow you. If you aren't a productive worker and just bitch about how minimum wage should be higher, you'll always be working for minimum wage.

I agree that the budget does sound ridiculous but that's what welfare and subsidies are there for. Anyone making that little a month is going to qualify for EBT, WIC, and Medicaid. They'll qualify for SNAP and housing subsidies. This is all stuff that we already pay for with taxes.

When you raise the minimum wage, you're not hurting the big companies with hundreds of billions to spare. You're hurting that locally owned grocery store that already only has a 5% (or less) profit margin to stay in the market. Raising the minimum wage will force them to lay people off or possibly even close their doors. The same goes for many other small mom and pop shops that make up the vast majority of small businesses all across the country. These are the ones that are hurt by minimum wage hikes.

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post #3 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 12:00 PM
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Minimum wage was never meant to be a "living" wage, it's a starting wage. No one should strive to get a minimum wage job.

Also raising minimum wage would cause the price of everything listed in the OP to rise. Well except Obamacare, that's going up on it's own.
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post #4 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 12:05 PM
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This has come up quite a few times and ppl seem to be quite divided on it. Imo it should be somewhat based off of the cost of living in the area and it's well known that it's not just young teens working these minimum wage jobs anymore and they span well beyond just fast food places even though ppl narrow it down to just that whenever the convo usually comes up.

In many of those situations you really have ppl that are working but depending on their pay and hours they are eldgible for gov't assistance. So they are basically the working poor. And some ppl have certain thoughts about ppl on gov't assistance but a shift in wages imo could possibly eliminate quite a few ppl from the rolls of gov't assistance the working poor. Imo it shouldn't be outrageous raises across the board but those that are paid to do it should sit down and do the figures to come up with decent figures based off of the cost of living.

The argument always get broken down to well some of those ppl are doing a job that any trained ape can do or since you feel they should get a raise what should the number be. Its not my personal job to figure that out. The fact is we all know those wages have not kept up with the cost of living and Something should be done about it and at the same time ppl frown upon ppl on gov't assistance when quite a few of them have jobs they just fall into a certain bracket with their pay.

When my wife worked H.R. in Tx in two different places some ppl refused to take the job bc it started them off at the minimum wage rate quite a few ppl just felt it was beneath them in a way coming in looking for jobs. Talking to ppl about this in person and on the net some ppl take a weird tone from some about any grown person making min wage.

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post #5 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 12:26 PM
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The bigger issue is jobs. You see politicians on both sides of the isle proclaiming they've created x number of jobs, but when you look at these jobs they're mostly minimum wage jobs. We lose decent paying manufacturing jobs and in turn have moved to customer service type jobs making a good chunk less. I just recently mentioned in Boattle's "I'm angry" thread that the three most common jobs in America were all customer service/retail jobs. Minimum wage jobs. They are the fastest growing occupations in America and have been for quite some time. We're entering trade agreements heavily lobbied for by big business that boost profits and line the pockets of shareholders at the expense of the average American worker. This is what needs to end.

That said, I think people on both ends overstate the effects of raising minimum wage. Proponents say it will be a boost to the economy, although how much is up for debate. Opponents say it will price out small business, but there are much larger factors effecting that problem in this country as opposed to a wage hike. We've seen I believe 5 hikes since 1980 and never had an exodus of small business from any of them. The one true fact here is that wage increases have not kept pace with inflation and that is, in my opinion, something worth fixing. It just isn't the sole answer to our problems. Not by a long shot.
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post #6 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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I understand that minimum wage is not supposed to be a living wage, but if that were the case only college or highschool students should be working minimum wage jobs. And we all know that isn't the case.


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post #7 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 01:33 PM
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Also note that the likelihood of people working these jobs actually getting 40 hours a week is, a lot of the time, near zero.
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post #8 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 01:42 PM
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Here is the problem the way I see it. My family owns a small business, and we were able to survive when the economy went in the toilet. To mandate these $15.00 an hour wages that most of the people are clamoring for would most certainly mean I would have to fire one or two people and chances are, our prices would have to rise. Not only that, but what do I do with the people who are making $15 an hour right now compared to the people who are making less than they are? Do they not also deserve a wage increase due to their higher job positions? Do I leave them at $15 or do I bump their wages up as well to reflect their seniority, experience, or job title within the company. For our company, we pay people based on their job position (obviously) and their experience and whether or not they earned their raise. These are things that we have to think about as well, not just the people that we now have to pay a higher wage to. I personally know of 4 companies that have barely weathered the storm and are just clinging to life at the moment and something like this would end up killing them right now when they can barely afford the $600 it cost to put one new tire on their trucks.

I do believe that some sort of minimum wage hike would be necessary though. The $8.75 is a little bit too low to live in some places especially in my area of New York where rent is somewhere around $1200/month and in some cases with utilities included. I can see $10.00 being the minimum wage and I think our business might be able to absorb some of those costs without having to fire someone but we would have to raise our costs. In our field we are competing (pretty damn successfully might I add) with 2 of the biggest White Glove Delivery companies in the world right now and our field is becoming heavily saturated right now by everyone and their mother who thinks they can properly do this job. Thankfully most people can't match our level of service as well as the other 2 in the New York Metro area. The issue is, those companies have such huge profits and avenues of income that they can take little something from here and something from there to compensate for decreasing their costs in order to push us out of the market and with their names they are someone that people seem to turn towards before they realize A) how difficult they are to work with and B) they can often times fuck up a wet dream. So if I can't increase my costs in order to be competitive I can't keep a good marketing program (even though 98% of our business is by word of mouth) in order to take prospective clients from those people to make money.

I mean it is easy to say that yeah we should increase the minimum wage so that so and so can have a comfortable life but by the same token people aren't realizing what that will have to do to the small business owners who aren't really getting by. I can speak for my parents since they both work here but at the end of the month they barely have enough money to do anything. Sometimes they don't take a check for that week or my uncle wont take a check for that week and I have had to hold my checks for several weeks at a time in some cases in order to keep the business afloat.

Minimum wage according to Census Data if I am remembering correctly was earned by a very large majority of people in their early 20's with a small segment of those people being above that age range. In all honesty, if you are making minimum wage and barely squeaking by and only working 40 hours, than you are the problem. You need to figure out a way to cut your expenses or to work more hours. Not to mention, look at the backlash by the people who were earning minimum wage in Seattle who now asked for their hours to be cut so that they could maintain their benefits that they were getting before the wage hike. Something meant to lift people out of poverty didn't matter because they wanted to be in the same income bracket to maintain those benefits. What is going to happen when the wage reaches full effect?
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post #9 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 01:58 PM
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That Seattle "backlash" was a whopping 5 people asking for reduced hours. Yet somehow 5 people got blown up into all of Seattle...

http://www.snopes.com/seattle-15-minimum-welfare/
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post #10 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 02:00 PM
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That Seattle "backlash" was a whopping 5 people asking for reduced hours. Yet somehow 5 people got blown up into all of Seattle...

Minimum Rage : snopes.com
I hesitated to even put that in there because in all honesty I figured you would probably grab onto that one thing. No offense intended.
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post #11 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 02:04 PM
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lose the minimum wage laws. it's not the government's business to make that decision. if somebody is willing to work for $1 an hour, why should the government tell them it's illegal for them to do so? if a person thinks they deserve $15 an hour, they need to convince their employer of that, not pressure the big nanny to enact more regulations to cater to them instead of encouraging them to actually gain marketable skills. why do people always immediately think government intervention is the solution to everything?
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post #12 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 02:11 PM
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I hesitated to even put that in there because in all honesty I figured you would probably grab onto that one thing. No offense intended.
I wasn't trying to discount the rest of what you had to say. I didn't address it because it's anecdotal evidence. Not much to discuss there as far as an outsider to the situation goes.

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post #13 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 02:13 PM
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I think ideally, a minimum wage increase would coincide with an increase overall. You can't just bump minimum wages up to match people that are higher skill levels. The higher skill levels would have to bump up as well. This would obviously increase the cost of some consumables but when a lot of consumables that used to be within reach of normal people are no longer attainable (hell, Ford Mustang prices) then its obvious wages aren't keeping up with inflation.

Hell, I make what I consider good money for a mechanical design engineer, but I can't go out and buy a Mustang GT without landing in a five year loan for $400-500/month. That seems ridiculous to me. But at the same time, it doesn't make sense for someone working a cash register to make as much as me when I went to school for five years to become specialized in something.

Basically, there needs to be a readjustment, but both sides are looking at extreme cases. I won't get into the fact that the top dogs in this country have been doing just fine getting their increased wages and outperforming inflation like its nobody's business while the rest of us stagnate, but that'll rustle some jimmies - oh well have at it...
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post #14 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 02:14 PM
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lose the minimum wage laws. it's not the government's business to make that decision. if somebody is willing to work for $1 an hour, why should the government tell them it's illegal for them to do so? if a person thinks they deserve $15 an hour, they need to convince their employer of that, not pressure the big nanny to enact more regulations to cater to them instead of encouraging them to actually gain marketable skills. why do people always immediately think government intervention is the solution to everything?
Because it WAS the solution. I know you're a very intelligent guy and surely you're aware of just how bad people had it before labor laws.

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post #15 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 02:14 PM
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lose the minimum wage laws. it's not the government's business to make that decision. if somebody is willing to work for $1 an hour, why should the government tell them it's illegal for them to do so? if a person thinks they deserve $15 an hour, they need to convince their employer of that, not pressure the big nanny to enact more regulations to cater to them instead of encouraging them to actually gain marketable skills. why do people always immediately think government intervention is the solution to everything?
This is a terrible idea...especially in a market where the employers have all the chips
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post #16 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 02:16 PM
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You always hear about increasing minimum wage but never about curbing inflation? Why is that?
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post #17 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Minimum wage should increase to reflect inflation, but increasing minimum wage to $15 an hour seems a bit over the top to me.


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post #18 of 63 Old November 10th, 2015, 02:31 PM
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You always hear about increasing minimum wage but never about curbing inflation? Why is that?
I've been on the bandwagon of raising rates for sometime now.

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Minimum wage should increase to reflect inflation, but increasing minimum wage to $15 an hour seems a bit over the top to me.
Don't quote me here, but I think the historical average up until the 80's was around $10 an hour accounting for inflation.

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post #19 of 63 Old November 11th, 2015, 02:42 AM
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I think it's a great idea. Sure, it's mathematically stupid – but why not let liberals lead us completely off the cliff. We're already at the precipice. What's a few more steps? Do we really think businesses will just sulk about their loss of profitability and continue on as usual? Give me a break. I think a few things will happen ...

With a $15 minimum wage mandate, many employers will double-down on other ways to reduce total labor costs – starting with automating any task which doesn't absolutely require a flesh-and-blood worker. For the workers who remain – the workplace will quickly become a different and uncomfortable place. Every fringe-benefit will be stripped, every moment of the work day will become more structured, the efficiency of every task will be scrutinized, and employees will be rigidly disciplined for any infraction. Many businesses will also redistribute total wages – reeling in wages of employees already making more than the new minimum. In short, the workplace will become a far more oppressive place. After the $15 minimum wage, if you take a 10 minute poop break, you WON'T be doing it on the clock.

And that's just he beginning. The price of many products and services will obviously go up. Unfortunately, the price increases will most hurt the very same people the new law was meant to help. For a skilled/certified worker who makes $100,000 a year, a 25% price increase in fast food prices, basic consumables, fuels, home goods, food, etc. is not a major budget breaker. But those price increases will surely be felt by those newly liberated $15/hr employees. And they'll discover that extra $200 a week largely evaporates in increased living expenses – leaving them be right back where they started.

And then it gets really ugly. The 109 MILLION welfare and food-stamp recipients will suddenly find their benefits to be insufficient. So to bring this liberal fantasy full circle, we will need to raise welfare and food-stamp payments to compensate for higher consumer prices. The same will go for social security recipients, who will soon find their benefits insufficient too – they'll need an adjustment as well. The result is a big increase in total entitlement spending, more borrowing from China, larger federal budget deficit, more national debt, etc.

So in the end, the same people will be poor, the same products will cost more, and the federal government (the actual taxpayers – what few still exist) will be saddled with supporting the same entitlement beneficiaries, but now at a new higher cost. But that's no problem – we can fix that. We'll just raise taxes to pay for it all, which will reduce business development, depress consumer spending, increase unemployment, etc. So sure, why not? Let's just finish destroying the American economy so burger-flippers and cashiers can feel better about their careers.

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post #20 of 63 Old November 11th, 2015, 02:52 AM
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If only there was ever evidence or even just historical perspective to substantiate the doomsday scenarios that are always presented when this issue gets brought up.


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