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post #1 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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Black Minnesota man Philando Castile, shot, killed by police [VIDEO] | City Pages

So I know the standard responses are going to show up to this: "I'll withhold my judgement till the investigation is complete" "lets see what this guy's criminal history is" "why was he reaching for his gun" "who knows if the girl's side of the story is true"

So what are you supposed to do? Everyone says if you're a legal CCW holder, to calmly let the police officer know in a traffic stop. But what if after that, when you're told to show your license, you get blasted to death because you did exactly what the officer asked?

Yeah, in any case I get pulled over, I tell the officer "I'm going to reach for my license, its in my wallet" or "is it okay if I get my insurance out of the glove compartment?". But is that really a requirement to not get fucking murdered? Come on now. When you're nervous (aka, every single person when they get pulled over) you can easily forget things like that.

Broken taillight ends up in the death of this guy. An officer fired four point-blank shots into a vehicle with a fucking passenger and a child in the backseat! Really? Is this going to be justified again?
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post #2 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 03:00 PM
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Yeah. I heard this on the news. I am a little stunned by this, and if it plays out exactly from what I heard on the news then the cop needs to be charged with manslaughter, child endangerment, and everything. This is complete bullshit if the story is true, and so far it sounds like it is.

I quoted the most disturbing part and I agree with it 100%

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Originally Posted by brtnstrns View Post

Yeah, in any case I get pulled over, I tell the officer "I'm going to reach for my license, its in my wallet" or "is it okay if I get my insurance out of the glove compartment?". But is that really a requirement to not get fucking murdered? Come on now. When you're nervous (aka, every single person when they get pulled over) you can easily forget things like that.

Broken taillight ends up in the death of this guy. An officer fired four point-blank shots into a vehicle with a fucking passenger and a child in the backseat! Really? Is this going to be justified again?
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post #3 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 03:06 PM
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Black Minnesota man Philando Castile, shot, killed by police [VIDEO] | City Pages

So I know the standard responses are going to show up to this: "I'll withhold my judgement till the investigation is complete" "lets see what this guy's criminal history is" "why was he reaching for his gun" "who knows if the girl's side of the story is true"

So what are you supposed to do? Everyone says if you're a legal CCW holder, to calmly let the police officer know in a traffic stop. But what if after that, when you're told to show your license, you get blasted to death because you did exactly what the officer asked?

Yeah, in any case I get pulled over, I tell the officer "I'm going to reach for my license, its in my wallet" or "is it okay if I get my insurance out of the glove compartment?". But is that really a requirement to not get fucking murdered? Come on now. When you're nervous (aka, every single person when they get pulled over) you can easily forget things like that.

Broken taillight ends up in the death of this guy. An officer fired four point-blank shots into a vehicle with a fucking passenger and a child in the backseat! Really? Is this going to be justified again?
Being a CCW holder in Minnesota, this concerns me greatly.

We do NOT have duty to inform in this state. This is not justifying the officer's actions, or anything else, just saying that we do not have duty to inform, and if I am pulled over for a broken light (which did happen recently) I did not inform the officer.

That said, no, the guy doesn't deserve to get shot four times for following instructions. The guy having weed in the car doesn't justify the officer's actions either.

Sadly, the only "evidence" is his girlfriend showing us his dead body after all the action happened, and that's all we have to go on. Guy doesn't have a criminal history that I'm aware of other than some petty shit, he can't be that much of a criminal because he has a CCW, but without knowing what happened up to the shooting, it becomes he said/she said and it's going to end up being not guilty for the cop even if he was in the wrong.

Here's what I did when I was pulled over last month for a headlight out.

I saw the officer turn around to follow me, I was going 7 over the limit (was going downhill, had gotten away from me) and that plus the light out got his attention. As soon as he turned around, I pulled my wallet out of my pocket so I would have my hands nowhere near my sidearm.

He pulled me over, I turned on my flashers and since we were on a state highway and there was a cross street coming up, I pulled onto the cross street to get him out of the line of traffic. I turned off my vehicle (my work van) and turned on the dome light, rolled window down, and waited for him to approach with my hands on the wheel. He shone his flashlight inside, I greeted him, and he asked for my license, which I gave. I did not give him my permit, nor did I announce my gun. He asked for insurance, I asked permission to reach into the glove compartment for it, he let me know I had a headlight out, and I was moving a little too fast, but he wasn't going to ticket me because I was still under 10 over the limit. I apologized for the speed, told him that I try to keep it closer to the mark and I would pay more attention. Gave him insurance, he whacked the headlight to see if it would come on (it didn't) and i assured him I would have work fix it asap (next day).

No issues, no problems.

However, if he had asked me to exit the vehicle, or was acting nervous, I would have informed him calmly and politely that I was a CCW holder, that I was carrying, and that I meant him no harm. I would have followed his instructions to the letter.

What I see people doing, and it is in good faith most of the time, is reaching for things, trying to have all their shit together. Just lay chilly, don't reach, don't rummage, it makes you look guilty. Looks like you're hiding something, etc. Be cool. Be polite. Don't say any more than you need to. Don't admit guilt. Don't do anything more than told, or politeness requires.

Guy may not have deserved to be shot. I don't have enough evidence to say who is at fault. For all I know he was doing something else that got him shot. It doesn't seem fully likely, but I don't know. I'm not going to make a judgement at all until they release the body camera footage. If they don't release it, it means the cop is at fault, and guys like that need to be called out for it, and let go from the force. I don't want officers getting shot, I don't want drivers getting shot. I don't want my permit revoked because it's too risky for the officer to know who is a good guy and who is a bad guy.

I am going to say both parties did things wrong. Doesn't justify anything that happened, but yes, both parties did things wrong.

I carry every damn day. I don't want to get pulled over for something like a light out and get shot by some trigger happy, nervous asshole, so I keep my mouth shut and I do not move unless asked to. It would be a good idea for any CCW holder to have their ID and their CCW readily available when driving. Put them in your phone case if you have a phone holder. Put them in your lap while you drive. Take the extra step to cover YOUR ass so you don't get shot reaching for your wallet.

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post #4 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Any time I've gotten pulled over I do everything you do: all windows down, lights on, car turned off with keys on the dashboard, hands on the wheel, being respectful and finishing sentences by saying "officer". I definitely do everything I can to not come off as threatening. I don't do this because I'm afraid of getting shot, but because I hope to keep the whole thing as relaxed as possible (and of course try to get off with a warning instead of a ticket since I'm sure the cop has had to deal with some fucking assholes before me).

But damn, if its true and the guy was reaching for his wallet after the officer told him to get his license and was shot because of it. That's scary to think that possibility is there and hopefully the officer would be charged just as any civilian would and the rest of the department needs to get some damn trigger training. Getting fired and finding a job at a PD one county over while settling out of court using taxpayer money isn't enough justice if this is truly the case.

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he whacked the headlight to see if it would come on
LOL. I'm imagining the scenario like this:

Officer: "Sir, your headlight is out"
Woodman: "It is?"
Cop smashes headlight
Officer: "Yes...it is..."
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post #5 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 03:44 PM
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This entire situation happened not too long after that other guy was shot like 6 times I think in the chest in Louisiana. Two cops had him down on the ground and the from the video it looked like one of the cops pulled the gun out of his pocket. That's also what one of the witnesses (the store owner) said. Crazy stuff both of them have been all over FB.

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post #6 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 05:24 PM
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OP, "is this going to be justified again". What case are we talking about?

I haven't really looked into the shooting that took place in the car. The one at the gas station is a simple case of do what the police tell you to fucking do. If you know you have a weapon on you and you fight with the police plan on being shot. The dude was a big guy actively fighting with police. He was also reaching for a weapon. Had I been in the same situation I would have shot him to.

Even in a fight where there is no weapon involved. There is only so long you can go until you gas out. Tasers suck and fail more times than not. I like OC spray much better. When you get to that point you need to make a decision. For me I would first start with ditching the accepted tactics and starting punching the person in the face/nose/jaw, dropping elbows etc. If that didn't work and I thought they were going to gain the upper hand, I wouldn't have a problem shooting somebody to survive. We are given handguns for a reason other than just carrying around more weight on the duty belt.

We always go back to blaming the cop, which in some cases is warranted. However 99% of the time death can be avoided if you do what you are told.

It's not a black and white thing, it's a case of failure to comply with police direction for one reason or another.
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post #7 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfive View Post
OP, "is this going to be justified again". What case are we talking about?

I haven't really looked into the shooting that took place in the car. The one at the gas station is a simple case of do what the police tell you to fucking do. If you know you have a weapon on you and you fight with the police plan on being shot. The dude was a big guy actively fighting with police. He was also reaching for a weapon. Had I been in the same situation I would have shot him to.

Even in a fight where there is no weapon involved. There is only so long you can go until you gas out. Tasers suck and fail more times than not. I like OC spray much better. When you get to that point you need to make a decision. For me I would first start with ditching the accepted tactics and starting punching the person in the face/nose/jaw, dropping elbows etc. If that didn't work and I thought they were going to gain the upper hand, I wouldn't have a problem shooting somebody to survive.

We always go back to blaming the cop, which in some cases is warranted. However 99% of the tine death can be avoided if you do what you are told.

It's not a black and white thing. The facts are that more crimes are perpetrated by blacks. It's just how it is. It's not because they were born black it has to do with the area they were born in, and the way they were raised. They really don't know any better or don't care.

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 PM ----------

And I want to clarify of statistics are checked it will show White's commit more violent crimes, but it needs to be noted "White's" includes Hispanics, and percentage wise Hispanics commit a whole bunch of crimes as well.
Not surprised at all to hear any of this from you f.five. I figured it would be a matter of time before you said something along these lines.

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

Op this is a longer video to the article and video you linked in.


https://youtu.be/b8GFGtFB0CQ

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post #8 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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OP, "is this going to be justified again". What case are we talking about?

I haven't really looked into the shooting that took place in the car. The one at the gas station is a simple case of do what the police tell you to fucking do. If you know you have a weapon on you and you fight with the police plan on being shot. The dude was a big guy actively fighting with police. He was also reaching for a weapon. Had I been in the same situation I would have shot him to.

Even in a fight where there is no weapon involved. There is only so long you can go until you gas out. Tasers suck and fail more times than not. I like OC spray much better. When you get to that point you need to make a decision. For me I would first start with ditching the accepted tactics and starting punching the person in the face/nose/jaw, dropping elbows etc. If that didn't work and I thought they were going to gain the upper hand, I wouldn't have a problem shooting somebody to survive. We are given handguns for a reason other than just carrying around more weight on the duty belt.

We always go back to blaming the cop, which in some cases is warranted. However 99% of the time death can be avoided if you do what you are told.

It's not a black and white thing, it's a case of failure to comply with police direction for one reason or another.
I'm not referring to the other recent one. I haven't looked into that one much.

I'm referring to this case. If this guy was doing what he was told with his daughter in the backseat and girlfriend next to him, why was he killed? If you have to fear for your safety just for putting your hand behind your back (you know, where most of us keep our wallets with IDs in them), then shit has gotten out of hand.

I know the response is going to be "we don't know all the details" etc etc. But really, these things need to bring up a conversation for how LEOs are investigated and punished. I know you're not going to agree with me since you are LEO but internal investigations, firings and re-hirings and payouts to victims being paid by tax-payers when wrongful deaths happen just ain't going to keep cutting it.
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post #9 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 06:26 PM
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T-Lee strap up a duty belt on the civilian side and maybe you will have the same thoughts I do. It's a whole different animal than what you are used to, I guarantee it. And many of my colleagues are military combat veterans.

And I changed that post pretty much to keep you from getting all ass hurt and pulling the black card. But like normal you are always creeping waiting to push your agenda. Not surprised you saved it and brought it back up at all. You remind me of a black officer I actually had part in hiring. Good kid, but couldn't drop the black chip off his shoulder. I gave him guidance on how to succeed and what to do. He went down to the academy and pulled the black card like five times putting some other recruits at risk for no reason because he was predisposed to think everybody was against him. He didn't finish the academy if you get my drift. I've been onto your game for a while, and thank you for your service but your aren't that fucking special dude......get over yourself.

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 PM ----------

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I'm not referring to the other recent one. I haven't looked into that one much.

I'm referring to this case. If this guy was doing what he was told with his daughter in the backseat and girlfriend next to him, why was he killed? If you have to fear for your safety just for putting your hand behind your back (you know, where most of us keep our wallets with IDs in them), then shit has gotten out of hand.

I know the response is going to be "we don't know all the details" etc etc. But really, these things need to bring up a conversation for how LEOs are investigated and punished. I know you're not going to agree with me since you are LEO but internal investigations, firings and re-hirings and payouts to victims being paid by tax-payers when wrongful deaths happen just ain't going to keep cutting it.
I agree with internal investigations. I actually had my first one after almost 15 years. I was exonerated. The problem I have is with the entire social media community jumping off on a video. These things need to be thoroughly investigated. I can't wait until we get body cameras next month.
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post #10 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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I agree with internal investigations. I actually had my first one after almost 15 years. I was exonerated. The problem I have is with the entire social media community jumping off on a video. These things need to be thoroughly investigated. I can't wait until we get body cameras next month.
Yeah, seems like they help all around. My brother in law has had some pretty asinine shit brought up against him from some of the morons he has to deal with (like stealing $20 and a couple pills from some crazy lady or something) that ultimately led to an investigation of him.

But when its like "whoops, camera fell off" "whoops, camera didn't turn on" "whoops, lost the footage" and "we've investigated ourselves and found that we had no wrong-doing" - how do you expect people to trust you (not "you" FoxFive - general "you")? Especially when the majority of officers actually are decent people.
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post #11 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 06:54 PM
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It's like anything else, there has to be some level of trust in the process by the public. That starts with having a good PD from the top down. Have there been cover ups in Law Enforcement, sure there has. There has also been cover ups by Doctors misdiagnosing people, cover ups by college coaches with regard to athletes, and you just witnessed a cover up of the woman running to be President. There are cover ups in every profession.

You have to trust that isn't the norm, and it's not.
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post #12 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 06:57 PM
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T-Lee strap up a duty belt on the civilian side and maybe you will have the same thoughts I do. It's a whole different animal than what you are used to, I guarantee it. And many of my colleagues are military combat veterans.

And I changed that post pretty much to keep you from getting all ass hurt and pulling the black card. But like normal you are always creeping waiting to push your agenda. Not surprised you saved it and brought it back up at all. You remind me of a black officer I actually had part in hiring. Good kid, but couldn't drop the black chip off his shoulder. I gave him guidance on how to succeed and what to do. He went down to the academy and pulled the black card like five times putting some other recruits at risk for no reason because he was predisposed to think everybody was against him. He didn't finish the academy if you get my drift. I've been onto your game for a while, and thank you for your service but your aren't that fucking special dude......get over yourself.[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 PM ----------
I barely responded to you dude so why did you take that as me being ass hurt? I'm not gonna respond to the rest of that shit you just spewed out of that ass you call a mouth after saying what you just said to me take your thanks and shove it up your ass with an elephant dick you douchbag. I in no way disrespected you in that first post but just then I had every intention to go eat raw infested pork and let it do work in you come talking crazy to me out of the blue asshole fuck that and fuck you! Special these ...s in your mouth.

:It wasn't Me that had something about race all over my post it was You in that deleted post. My response was very short.

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post #13 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 07:03 PM
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I barely responded to you dude so why did you take that as me being ass hurt? I'm not gonna respond to the rest of that shit you just spewed out of that ass you call a mouth after saying what you just said to me take your thanks and shove it up your ass with an elephant dick you douchbag. I in no way disrespected you in that first post but just then I had every intention to go eat raw infested pork and let it do work in you come talking crazy to me out of the blue asshole fuck that and fuck you! Special these ...s in your mouth.
You're touched dude.
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post #14 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 07:03 PM
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Btw I have nothing further to say to you period I'm sure your chest has some sort of response for that.

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post #15 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 08:23 PM
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Sounds good.....carry on..... And to think you indirectly question my stability when I mention anything about my drive to survive.

---------- Post added at 07:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------

Before this derailed to answer the question about CCW I see no need to offer it up if the officer doesn't inquire? If the officer asks for an ID and retrieving it may introduce the firearm I would let the officer know, and ask him/her how they would like me to proceed.

I watched the video and one thing I would like to see is the man's demeanor prior to being shot. Was he confrontational about the stop? Acting agreesive? That would play into it if he was. Just because he can legally carry has zero bearing on anything when it comes to officer safety and reaction.

But the video in itself seems pretty damning. You can tell the officer is shook up, doesn't sound like a cold blooded killer.

When I was in the academy we actually ran through a simunitions scenario where they had a motorist open the glove box and there was a handgun in there. We had 4 or so scenarios before this and had been shot or shot at in some of them. Most people did not shoot at the sight of the gun, a few did. Overall it was a great thing to go over.
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post #16 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 09:05 PM
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The officer in the Minnesota video sounded very distraught and I do not feel that he truly wanted to shoot him, it was a split second decision. I believe race had no role in this case. That's just my opinion.

This is exactly why my gun stays in the center console and my wallet goes in the cup holder. In the event of a traffic stop the cop can see everything and I have no reason to tell him about my gun or CCW.

In most cases I've had my license, registration, and insurance card out and ready before the cop even got out of his car.

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post #17 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 10:59 PM
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The officer in the Minnesota video sounded very distraught and I do not feel that he truly wanted to shoot him, it was a split second decision. I believe race had no role in this case. That's just my opinion.

This is exactly why my gun stays in the center console and my wallet goes in the cup holder. In the event of a traffic stop the cop can see everything and I have no reason to tell him about my gun or CCW.

In most cases I've had my license, registration, and insurance card out and ready before the cop even got out of his car.
The most intelligent response in this thread so far.

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------

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I barely responded to you dude so why did you take that as me being ass hurt? I'm not gonna respond to the rest of that shit you just spewed out of that ass you call a mouth after saying what you just said to me take your thanks and shove it up your ass with an elephant dick you douchbag. I in no way disrespected you in that first post but just then I had every intention to go eat raw infested pork and let it do work in you come talking crazy to me out of the blue asshole fuck that and fuck you! Special these ...s in your mouth.

:It wasn't Me that had something about race all over my post it was You in that deleted post. My response was very short.
That's right it was me that altered that post. I didn't give any false information in it. I did in fact think specifically of you before altering it when I saw your name in the thread and how you would react about any racial matters or the word "black" mentioned. I have a right to change a post after reflecting on it. The fact of the matter is you have been creeping my posts and quoting them for some time. Remember I'm, " locked and loaded", and that I wanted to randomly kill looters. Basically taking everything I say literally and then try to paint me in a bad light or make me seem heavy handed. My record is spotless.

The funny thing is that you're black and when I pressed you a little about the "black card"you flipped out calling me a "douchbag", telling me to shove an "Elephant dick" up my ass, and to put your "nuts" in my mouth. You are military and in the past when I questioned some military practices you flipped out and felt the need to try and threaten me with your Sergent rank. It's ok for you to consistently shit on the police profession but when something that pertains to you is questioned you act out of line not indicative of any Sergeant I would want to follow.

You chime in on anything that has the word "Black"and "Police" in it. I'm a Sergeant as well, have been for 7 years and my patrol team trusts me. I'm not out to get them or myself hurt. I don't care if they are black, white, or pink. No I don't hesistate. If somebody presents a dangerous threat such as a gun, they will be dealt with. When you were overseas if the situation arose I hope you would have done or did the same thing.

Not all police shootings are justified, but not all white cop on black male shootings are unjustified. When it's said and done I don't give a fuck what you think, or how you twist things.
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post #18 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 11:03 PM
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FOX NEWS just showed what appeared to be an officer in Dallas, Texas laying on the ground with officers surrounding him with guns drawn. Shots were fired. Police told reporters to back off, there is a man with a rifle. Not good...

I'm not sure, but it looked like he was in a pool of blood. They took the feed down before I could really get a good look.

EDIT: Megyn Kelly just said two officers have been shot. It sounds like he's shooting from a parking deck.

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post #19 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver GT View Post
FOX NEWS just showed what appeared to be an officer in Dallas, Texas laying on the ground with officers surrounding him with guns drawn. Shots were fired. Police told reporters to back off, there is a man with a rifle. Not good...

I'm not sure, but it looked like he was in a pool of blood. They took the feed down before I could really get a good look.

EDIT: Megyn Kelly just said two officers have been shot. It sounds like he's shooting from a parking deck.
Not Good.
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post #20 of 264 Old July 7th, 2016, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by foxfive View Post


---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 PM ----------



That's right it was me that altered that post....................................
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Lee. 30 View Post
..I'm sure your chest has some sort of response for that.
Figured it was coming eventually. Hopefully you feel better after that looks like it's been in there for quite some time. Back to tv time for me.

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