Presidential Election 2016 - Page 19 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
View Poll Results: Who is going to win the election?
Trump 19 57.58%
Clinton 11 33.33%
Johnson 2 6.06%
One of those other weirdos... 1 3.03%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

 247Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #361 of 419 Old December 20th, 2016, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
missippi roolz
 
socialist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,983
         
iTrader: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
Agreed. Like I said, I own my vote for him. If he goes full liberal, then that's on me. Ooops.

However, I made a calculated choice, and the choice of Trump was more likely to see the preservation of our rights as a whole than a Clinton Presidency.

Also, regarding the "Russian Hacker" rabbit hole... No one, I repeat NO ONE ever brings up that whoever leaked the emails illustrated precisely why they were deleted. They showed criminal doings of Clinton, the DNC in general, and that they're trying to remake the country into a more socialist nation. The Russian Hackers also had nothing to do with "Carlos Danger's" laptop, the FBI investigation into the deleted emails, and the fact that they announced her guilty, but "chose not to prosecute" as that would have been seen as tampering with the election.

Never mind that she and those around her did a great many criminal, and terrible things to try and win the election. No, let's just use a handy scapegoat and blame the Russians for the loss, instead of the plain and simple fact that she's a horrible person, and enough people saw it to not elect her.
True, the content is damning no matter what. But I bet if you dug into nearly every single politician in Washington's email you'd find that they are literally all criminals. Shit, I can't even imagine the correspondence between Cheney and his goons. He's much too mischievous and cunning to slip up though.

So yeah, the content is important in context in our situation. But it wouldn't be important if it wasn't leaked. And chances are every one of them has dirt that is probably best left buried.

A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked. (Mark 14:51-52)
socialist is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #362 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 01:15 AM
Pawsitively sexy
 
Sixpointslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lower Sussex, DE
Posts: 10,561
                   
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
Really? The recounts in Florida and the whole hanging chad debacle ring a bell? Was it exactly like this election? No. But the left is trying to undermine the votes (even though there isn't any significant evidence they were hacked), and it was the left that championed electronic voting machines for this very reason, was it not? The recounts didn't work, so they learned from it and didn't try that trick this time. Now they tried to plea to the electoral college's "sensibilities" to get them to vote for the person who lost.
I know it was a long time ago, Woody, but those recounts were mandatory and not just some liberal ploy. Some 500 odd votes separating candidates in a state as large as Florida is razor thin. Not to mention, had Florida flipped, Gore was our President. There were pretty legitimate circumstances for what came after the election then.

On the other hand, no state was remotely as close this time around, and the electoral college didn't come down to one single state like before. But yet the non-mandatory recounts were still ordered, the whole "fuck the electoral collage" wave started, and eventually came the plea for faithless electors. It was a significantly larger, much more cry baby reaction than what happened in 2000 and for results that were never actually in question like back in 2000. It's completely fucking different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
It's a very, very common left side tactic. I direct you to the election of Stuart Smalley, er, I mean Al Franken. He LOST. He lost and they recounted FIVE TIMES (it may have been three, but it was way more than it should have) until they "found" a box chock full of votes for Franken. MN let it happen because they are all a bunch of good progressives who think that they just can't lose, it's just not right.
The worthless ass stole the election, and he'll continue to win in MN because that's what they do here.
The fine details may change from year to year, but the root cause doesn't. The DNC are not good losers.
Don't know, don't really care. I'm not claiming that the DNC are good losers, only that the RNC isn't any better. See South Carolina for a live view into my point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
Yes, Trump said he was prepared to fight the results. I expect that because (here's the shocker) HE'S A DEMOCRAT! I don't care if he ran as a Republican. He is not, never has been, and never will be a conservative. All his antics are exactly what the Democrats do when they don't get their way, and I for one find it hilarious how quickly the Democrats call him out on it by doing the exact same thing. While I am not a fan of Trump overall, and felt there were better people, he's what we had, and I do feel he's better than Clinton ever could be. I also feel it's about time that the "Republicans" played by the same dirty rules as the Democrats, at least in this instance, to shine a nice big light on it. It'd be even better if they could see their own reflection being pushed back at them, but they won't.

Will Trump turn things around? Probably not. Not for lack of trying though. He's going to have to fight both sides in the house and senate to get anything done.
He's been no less a Republican to this point than Bush II ever was. I won't pretend he's an actual conservative, but he fits right in with the RNC. Hell, he may be more of a Republican than the last two nominees were given his actions and comments over the last few months.

2012 CTS-V

Not stock


Sixpointslow is offline  
post #363 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 01:31 AM
US Air Force (retired)
 
Eagle2000GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 13,429
                     
Garage
iTrader: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
Also, regarding the "Russian Hacker" rabbit hole... No one, I repeat NO ONE ever brings up that whoever leaked the emails illustrated precisely why they were deleted. They showed criminal doings of Clinton, the DNC in general, and that they're trying to remake the country into a more socialist nation. The Russian Hackers also had nothing to do with "Carlos Danger's" laptop, the FBI investigation into the deleted emails, and the fact that they announced her guilty, but "chose not to prosecute" as that would have been seen as tampering with the election.
You are correct. The Russians had nothing to do with Clinton's deleted or Weiner's emails. There were four separate email issues. The first were those on Clinton's personal server that were deleted some time between December 2014 and March 2015. The second were the hacked DNC emails that were hacked maybe early 2016. The third were Podesta's emails that were hacked in March 2016 a few months before Trump became the nominee when Podesta fell for a phishing scheme and handed them his personal information. The fourth were the emails on Anthony Weiner's computer. The FBI gained access to it because of his sexting. Somehow they were related to the deleted emails and the FBI temporarily reopened the investigation.

ProCharger P-1SC, 9 psi, STD 396/383; Uncorrected 388/375; SAE 383/370.
Ret. USAF 1969-1973,1980-1996: Vietnam veteran. Aircraft maintenance. R & D, ICBM Operations.
Also own: 1997 Harley FXDWG, 1998 F-150, and 2002 Corvette LS1
Eagle2000GT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #364 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 01:40 AM
Pawsitively sexy
 
Sixpointslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Lower Sussex, DE
Posts: 10,561
                   
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Lee. 30 View Post
This topic was coming up prior to the election results as we all know for obvious reasons. On another note back in 2012 this topic came up quite a bit also and JohnC you even responded to this popular vote topic in one of those threads you even agreed that it was ridiculous for someone to win the popular vote and lose the election back in 2012 but that's as the numbers were still coming in and it looked like Romney was going to beat President Obama in the popular vote.

When it boiled down to it I don't Think that was the final results though. I know sometimes stances can change like the wind I guess it all depends on who is in what position. Your reaction post #33 . Yeah I know how it goes man.

https://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...results-2.html

P.S. hopefully all of that was put in a way that it can be read by everyone and not clouded with too much jibber jabber.
@JohnC is the fucking poster child for changing his mind on positions based on how the political landscape looks.

Just look at how adamant he is about how the popular vote shouldn't mean dick (and for the record, I agree).

The issue is that when it looked like the script might have been flipped back in 2012, JohnC did not feel the way he feels today...



And get used to it, JohnC. Over the next few years as you suddenly ignore the massive deficit spending you once considered one of the biggest problems facing the country or play down the crony capitalism going on under Trump, I'm going to be there to remind you what a shit storm you made about it all when it was happening under Obama.

T-Lee. 30 and nileppezdel77! like this.

2012 CTS-V

Not stock


Sixpointslow is offline  
post #365 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 09:57 AM
MM Fanatic
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 4,562
               
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by brtnstrns View Post
True, the content is damning no matter what. But I bet if you dug into nearly every single politician in Washington's email you'd find that they are literally all criminals. Shit, I can't even imagine the correspondence between Cheney and his goons. He's much too mischievous and cunning to slip up though.
I have zero doubt that there is as much criminal and crony correspondence in all levels and all "sides" of our political structure. I despise that, and want to get rid of all the incumbents because of it. I'm tired of hearing about how they all need "experience" to do their job. Fuck that. They need to have a brain, be rational, and not be bought like 99% of our current elected officials are. They need to weigh the will of their constituents, balance that out with their knowledge of our constitution, and choose accordingly.
Quote:

So yeah, the content is important in context in our situation. But it wouldn't be important if it wasn't leaked. And chances are every one of them has dirt that is probably best left buried.
I disagree completely. It is extremely important, whether or not it was "leaked". It was thankful that it was leaked, because it hopefully opened the eyes of people to try and reign in the idiocy and corruption of our government. This is precisely why we have elections every two years, to kick out the shitty people. Sadly, the people doing the voting are by and large lazy, thoughtless morons and they keep voting FOR the corruption because "it doesn't matter". It DOES matter.

As I said above, I hate corruption. Sadly, that is a trait of powerful people. I am not giving excuses to Trump. I know he'll have his cronies in offices, and this is not a justification, but it is a very common, and almost impossible thing not to have. People, especially those in power, promote those who have done them right in the past. Can that be construed as cronyism? Yes, but it is in my mind understandable. You got elected based on your ideals and beliefs, it makes sense to nominate those you feel close to for the offices available. Not justification, just understanding as to why it happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
Woodman is offline  
post #366 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 10:13 AM
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
T-Lee. 30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,149
                 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to T-Lee. 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixpointslow View Post
@JohnC is the fucking poster child for changing his mind on positions based on how the political landscape looks.

Just look at how adamant he is about how the popular vote shouldn't mean dick (and for the record, I agree).

The issue is that when it looked like the script might have been flipped back in 2012, JohnC did not feel the way he feels today...



And get used to it, JohnC. Over the next few years as you suddenly ignore the massive deficit spending you once considered one of the biggest problems facing the country or play down the crony capitalism going on under Trump, I'm going to be there to remind you what a shit storm you made about it all when it was happening under Obama.

Spot on!

-03 GT V1S trim 5psi, 3xxhp/3xxtq
-06 TBSS LS3H,cam,f.exhaust 4xxrwhp/4xxrwtq
-03 Dakota SLT Quad cab 2wd stock

Iraq and Afghanistan War Vet . Convoys and convoy security. My Wife is also a Army and Afghanistan war vet.
T-Lee. 30 is online now  
post #367 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
missippi roolz
 
socialist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,983
         
iTrader: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
I disagree completely. It is extremely important, whether or not it was "leaked". It was thankful that it was leaked, because it hopefully opened the eyes of people to try and reign in the idiocy and corruption of our government. This is precisely why we have elections every two years, to kick out the shitty people. Sadly, the people doing the voting are by and large lazy, thoughtless morons and they keep voting FOR the corruption because "it doesn't matter". It DOES matter.
Right. I was speaking in terms of it's effect on the election. If nobody knew about it, it wouldn't have been a factor. Not "it's not important" as in "it doesn't matter in any regard".

I agree that it was a good spotlight on the potential corruption of politics - although I don't think it was nearly as crazy as what some people do - but at least some people assumed the corruption anyway but it was good evidence.

The problem is that the Democrats aren't seeming to take responsibility and acting like they'll change and become trustworthy to their voters. As someone who is on the verge of just accepting the title "Liberal" and "Democrat" just to get everyone to shut the fuck up as if they're actually insulting me, it concerns me that the DNC will just fuck themselves in the next election by not putting up a person the constituents truly believe in.
Woodman likes this.

A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked. (Mark 14:51-52)
socialist is online now  
post #368 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 03:02 PM
MM Fanatic
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 4,562
               
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by brtnstrns View Post
Right. I was speaking in terms of it's effect on the election. If nobody knew about it, it wouldn't have been a factor. Not "it's not important" as in "it doesn't matter in any regard".

I agree that it was a good spotlight on the potential corruption of politics - although I don't think it was nearly as crazy as what some people do - but at least some people assumed the corruption anyway but it was good evidence.

The problem is that the Democrats aren't seeming to take responsibility and acting like they'll change and become trustworthy to their voters. As someone who is on the verge of just accepting the title "Liberal" and "Democrat" just to get everyone to shut the fuck up as if they're actually insulting me, it concerns me that the DNC will just fuck themselves in the next election by not putting up a person the constituents truly believe in.
Gotcha, I see what you're saying.

Now, while I am sure that there are a good number of left leaning "liberals" who have voted Democrat because that's what they've always done, and there are those who vote for them because they don't understand the way government is supposed to work, the voters are only a symptom of the problem. Those in power of the DNC are the real issue. They have capitalized on the fact that a huge amount of the voters vote D because it's what they've always done. They may disagree with a large number of their stances on issues, but they've voted Democrat for so long they can't not vote Democrat. Add to it a great many people are VERY lazy, don't do any research and take whatever information is spoon fed to them, and it shows why the DNC has gone the way they have. They really do hold themselves as more intelligent than everyone else, really think people need to be backwoods rubes to vote Republican, etc. Never mind that they have said that they need to have a "public face" and a "private face" to keep the people from seeing who you really are, nevermind they are more than willing to steamroll over another (equally unviable in my opinion) candidate to promote their "chosen one", they simply think that the general public is too stupid to make a reasonable choice, so they're going to force it on them. That in my opinion is one of the reasons they cannot bear to lose, why they fight so hard to change the rules when cheating doesn't work. The DNC does learn more quickly than the RNC though... They probably won't admit why they're wrong, but they'll adapt faster than the RNC.

The only reason the RNC "adapted" is because a liberal democrat ran as a republican. He played by DNC rules and it really pissed them off. By doing so, he helped bring to light all of the corruption inside of the group, and if we're lucky the people will remember that and work to change it.

As far as labeling yourself, why bother? I don't consider myself a republican even though I tend to vote republican. I vote based on the long term results of the elections. I don't get caught up in petty shit like overturning Roe v Wade (which really, the RNC should just drop. It's a stupid fight, much light gun bans and the DNC, but I digress). What I do is look at the history of the people running, I look at how they've voted, what their ideals are, etc. Clinton was in my opinion a horrible choice for president. The DNC always talks about furthering our rights, being the champion for them, yet they are always the first to curtail them. The primary reason I have not voted for a Democrat in a national election is since I have been able to vote, I have yet to see one I think is worth electing. Take Bill Clinton for example. I was 18 when he ran, and I was geared up to vote for him until he said something that made me lose ALL respect for him. Bear in mind, I thought he was the coolest guy to run for president yet. He had all the women cooing over him, he seemed cool, and then his lying stupid mouth said when asked about smoking pot, "Well, I put the cigarette in my mouth, but I didn't inhale."

BULLSHIT! LYING POLITICIAN BULLSHIT! It not only insulted my intelligence, but it was the stupidest, most asinine thing to say. Had he said something along the lines of, "Well, it was the 60's and yes I tried it as many people did. But I didn't care for it, so I don't smoke it anymore." then my respect of him would have remained intact as that would have been a "more honest" if not completely honest answer.
By answering in that cagey, lying manner, then everything else that came out of his mouth became recognizable as a lie. All his answers were non-answers like that. Well I did A but did not do B. Yes I knew that woman, no I didn't have sex with her. All the women coming out of the woodwork claiming to have been raped by him (most of which had actually reported it to some form of law enforcement when it actually happened, unlike the accusations against Trump during the campaign) suddenly seemed much more convincing to me.

Once you spot HOW someone lies, it's easy to spot the lies. And both Bill and Hillary lie in nearly every sentence they speak.

Notice when Obama was asked about smoking pot, he answered that he did at one point. I respected that. Didn't vote for him because I didn't like his ideals, but I respected that of him. His lies are also easy to spot. "Let me be clear..." That means he's lying.

I personally would love to get people of good character into politics. I don't see it happening though, because the voters are petty, whiny, petulant idiots. Good people in politics are a rarity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
Woodman is offline  
post #369 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
missippi roolz
 
socialist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,983
         
iTrader: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
Gotcha, I see what you're saying.

Now, while I am sure that there are a good number of left leaning "liberals" who have voted Democrat because that's what they've always done, and there are those who vote for them because they don't understand the way government is supposed to work, the voters are only a symptom of the problem. Those in power of the DNC are the real issue. They have capitalized on the fact that a huge amount of the voters vote D because it's what they've always done. They may disagree with a large number of their stances on issues, but they've voted Democrat for so long they can't not vote Democrat. Add to it a great many people are VERY lazy, don't do any research and take whatever information is spoon fed to them, and it shows why the DNC has gone the way they have. They really do hold themselves as more intelligent than everyone else, really think people need to be backwoods rubes to vote Republican, etc. Never mind that they have said that they need to have a "public face" and a "private face" to keep the people from seeing who you really are, nevermind they are more than willing to steamroll over another (equally unviable in my opinion) candidate to promote their "chosen one", they simply think that the general public is too stupid to make a reasonable choice, so they're going to force it on them. That in my opinion is one of the reasons they cannot bear to lose, why they fight so hard to change the rules when cheating doesn't work. The DNC does learn more quickly than the RNC though... They probably won't admit why they're wrong, but they'll adapt faster than the RNC.

The only reason the RNC "adapted" is because a liberal democrat ran as a republican. He played by DNC rules and it really pissed them off. By doing so, he helped bring to light all of the corruption inside of the group, and if we're lucky the people will remember that and work to change it.

As far as labeling yourself, why bother? I don't consider myself a republican even though I tend to vote republican. I vote based on the long term results of the elections. I don't get caught up in petty shit like overturning Roe v Wade (which really, the RNC should just drop. It's a stupid fight, much light gun bans and the DNC, but I digress). What I do is look at the history of the people running, I look at how they've voted, what their ideals are, etc. Clinton was in my opinion a horrible choice for president. The DNC always talks about furthering our rights, being the champion for them, yet they are always the first to curtail them. The primary reason I have not voted for a Democrat in a national election is since I have been able to vote, I have yet to see one I think is worth electing. Take Bill Clinton for example. I was 18 when he ran, and I was geared up to vote for him until he said something that made me lose ALL respect for him. Bear in mind, I thought he was the coolest guy to run for president yet. He had all the women cooing over him, he seemed cool, and then his lying stupid mouth said when asked about smoking pot, "Well, I put the cigarette in my mouth, but I didn't inhale."

BULLSHIT! LYING POLITICIAN BULLSHIT! It not only insulted my intelligence, but it was the stupidest, most asinine thing to say. Had he said something along the lines of, "Well, it was the 60's and yes I tried it as many people did. But I didn't care for it, so I don't smoke it anymore." then my respect of him would have remained intact as that would have been a "more honest" if not completely honest answer.
By answering in that cagey, lying manner, then everything else that came out of his mouth became recognizable as a lie. All his answers were non-answers like that. Well I did A but did not do B. Yes I knew that woman, no I didn't have sex with her. All the women coming out of the woodwork claiming to have been raped by him (most of which had actually reported it to some form of law enforcement when it actually happened, unlike the accusations against Trump during the campaign) suddenly seemed much more convincing to me.

Once you spot HOW someone lies, it's easy to spot the lies. And both Bill and Hillary lie in nearly every sentence they speak.

Notice when Obama was asked about smoking pot, he answered that he did at one point. I respected that. Didn't vote for him because I didn't like his ideals, but I respected that of him. His lies are also easy to spot. "Let me be clear..." That means he's lying.

I personally would love to get people of good character into politics. I don't see it happening though, because the voters are petty, whiny, petulant idiots. Good people in politics are a rarity.
Haha, I guess not applying the label to myself - moreso that when someone inevitably goes "OMG, you're such a liberal!" I'll say "alright, so what?" as opposed to try to go into detail about why I'm not really - especially based on the generalizations made about the left from the right.

So yeah, someone tries to derogatorily call me a liberal for proclaiming that I think immediate changes need to happen to protect the future of the human race from pollution and climate change but they won't derogatorily call me a conservative for wanting a handful of pistols, maybe a couple of assault rifles and a Kel-Tec KSG to mount on the wall just because it looks fucking bad ass.

A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked. (Mark 14:51-52)
socialist is online now  
post #370 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 07:56 PM
MM Fanatic
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 4,562
               
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by brtnstrns View Post
Haha, I guess not applying the label to myself - moreso that when someone inevitably goes "OMG, you're such a liberal!" I'll say "alright, so what?" as opposed to try to go into detail about why I'm not really - especially based on the generalizations made about the left from the right.

So yeah, someone tries to derogatorily call me a liberal for proclaiming that I think immediate changes need to happen to protect the future of the human race from pollution and climate change but they won't derogatorily call me a conservative for wanting a handful of pistols, maybe a couple of assault rifles and a Kel-Tec KSG to mount on the wall just because it looks fucking bad ass.
See, that's the thing. By applying labels to ourselves, we limit ourselves. When someone flat out calls themselves a liberal or conservative, I feel it paints their beliefs on their sleeve. I too feel that things need to change to make the world a better place, and protect it from everything that happens. I don't however want to weaponize every cause, be it the anti climate change cause, the pro/anti gun cause, etc. We can believe in anything we like, but when the government DEMANDS that we ACCEPT the one solution that makes them lots of money while everyone else pays through the nose for whatever snake oil they're selling to "fight" it I tend to look at things a little more suspiciously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
Woodman is offline  
post #371 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
missippi roolz
 
socialist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,983
         
iTrader: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
See, that's the thing. By applying labels to ourselves, we limit ourselves. When someone flat out calls themselves a liberal or conservative, I feel it paints their beliefs on their sleeve. I too feel that things need to change to make the world a better place, and protect it from everything that happens. I don't however want to weaponize every cause, be it the anti climate change cause, the pro/anti gun cause, etc. We can believe in anything we like, but when the government DEMANDS that we ACCEPT the one solution that makes them lots of money while everyone else pays through the nose for whatever snake oil they're selling to "fight" it I tend to look at things a little more suspiciously.
I gotcha.

Maybe that's the big difference with ideologies. I don't trust the people in government really at all - but at least they have some form of reason to answer to the citizens of the country. Now, how often does that happen in practice? Eh, hard to say as there's some good and bad.

But I have a fuckload less trust in the large corporations that seem to really run the country and dictate a whole lot of bullshit that screws over consumers while convincing everyone they're somehow doing people a favor by aiming to keep wages stagnated. i.e. Capitalism in theory is great but in true practice is shown to be very damn corruptible without forms of regulation.

I think the "conservative" ideology has those mistrusts flipped.

*prepares for bringing rare contributors out of the woodwork*

A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked. (Mark 14:51-52)
socialist is online now  
post #372 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 10:58 PM
MM Fanatic
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 4,562
               
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by brtnstrns View Post
I gotcha.

Maybe that's the big difference with ideologies. I don't trust the people in government really at all - but at least they have some form of reason to answer to the citizens of the country. Now, how often does that happen in practice? Eh, hard to say as there's some good and bad.

But I have a fuckload less trust in the large corporations that seem to really run the country and dictate a whole lot of bullshit that screws over consumers while convincing everyone they're somehow doing people a favor by aiming to keep wages stagnated. i.e. Capitalism in theory is great but in true practice is shown to be very damn corruptible without forms of regulation.

I think the "conservative" ideology has those mistrusts flipped.

*prepares for bringing rare contributors out of the woodwork*
It's two sides of the same coin.
I prefer capitalism over other things like communism and socialism. The problem is that the businesses invest in the crooked poliicians, who get re-elected over and over, who support the businesses who support them, and it goes on and on.

The government really isn't answering to the people like they should, and it's not just Republicans doing it. Case in point Clinton. Both sides of the politics are just as corrupt, and you cannot tell me that the government is pursuing climate change out of the goodness of their hearts, especially when it brings them a lot of profit.

Blaming the corporations for greed and our ills isn't really the accurate thing. Those corporations wouldn't be there if the customers weren't buying their stuff. Blaming the politicians for allowing it is more fair, but then who elects them? The lazy voter.

Conservatives aren't all about money above everything else. That's the pitch the Democrats want you to believe. Just like the Democrats aren't about equality, education, and peace like they say they are, that's just their pitch, and their actions show a much different thing. Obama lobbing missiles across Syria recently being a good point. It's all smoke and mirrors essentially. A big show to look busy while the back room deals make everything happen.
socialist likes this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
Woodman is offline  
post #373 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 11:08 PM
I Post Entirely Way Too Much
 
Novanutcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 6,058
               
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
It's two sides of the same coin.
I prefer capitalism over other things like communism and socialism. The problem is that the businesses invest in the crooked poliicians, who get re-elected over and over, who support the businesses who support them, and it goes on and on.
The problem is that businesses are the ones that pushed the citizens united ruling that has allowed them to corrupt our electoral system. I wholly blame conservatives for this but I despise the fact that liberals have taken to it like a duck to water. It's insulting when liberals rail about money in government while they hold their hands out.

John
Eagle2000GT likes this.

SOLD - '03 GT, Max Moto Max Grip Box, Wilwood SL 6 front/DL4 rear Big Brake Kit, Corbeau Seats, MGW Short Shifter, MAC Long Tube Headers/Prochamber mid/ Flowmaster 40, FRPP 4.10, TrickFlow Diff Cover/75mm TB/Plenum, Eaton Posi, Moser 31 spl Axles
Novanutcase is offline  
post #374 of 419 Old December 21st, 2016, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
missippi roolz
 
socialist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,983
         
iTrader: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
It's two sides of the same coin.
I prefer capitalism over other things like communism and socialism. The problem is that the businesses invest in the crooked poliicians, who get re-elected over and over, who support the businesses who support them, and it goes on and on.

The government really isn't answering to the people like they should, and it's not just Republicans doing it. Case in point Clinton. Both sides of the politics are just as corrupt, and you cannot tell me that the government is pursuing climate change out of the goodness of their hearts, especially when it brings them a lot of profit.

Blaming the corporations for greed and our ills isn't really the accurate thing. Those corporations wouldn't be there if the customers weren't buying their stuff. Blaming the politicians for allowing it is more fair, but then who elects them? The lazy voter.

Conservatives aren't all about money above everything else. That's the pitch the Democrats want you to believe. Just like the Democrats aren't about equality, education, and peace like they say they are, that's just their pitch, and their actions show a much different thing. Obama lobbing missiles across Syria recently being a good point. It's all smoke and mirrors essentially. A big show to look busy while the back room deals make everything happen.
It's definitely not just the Republicans, no. But in some instances, what's beneficial in some aspect for the "elite" (or whatever) also happens to benefit the greater good - obviously this idea can be applied to all sorts of issues, red or blue.

I don't feel like going into a whole lot of detail about shit that I already have a decent grasp of guessing what people's opinions are but I'll give one example: the Republicans seem to be frothing at the mouth to overturn the Title II classification of ISP's under the banner that it "hurts businesses" when really, it protects the everloving shit out of the consumers because right now, ISP's are creating loopholed-monopolies all over the country and are clinging on in every way they can to keep services artificially inflated as people abandon cable television. The Republicans paint this as if they're looking out for the little guy, while in reality, the little guy is consistently getting stomped out of existence - not because they're being bought out or out-competed, but because the price of entry is literally unobtainable with the current system and Title II looks to ease those issues. But the new FCC will very likely come in and gut all the work that has been done in that regard because "deregulation".

This could potentially start a shitstorm but whatever, I don't hear about how conservatives put money before all-else through democrats or the media. Nearly all of it comes from the horses mouth.

A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked. (Mark 14:51-52)
socialist is online now  
post #375 of 419 Old December 22nd, 2016, 08:52 AM
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 511
         
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by brtnstrns View Post
*prepares for bringing rare contributors out of the woodwork*
This post is BS.

*heads back into woodwork*
Woodman and socialist like this.

-Will


sneaky98gt is offline  
post #376 of 419 Old December 22nd, 2016, 09:43 AM
Rent Asunder!
 
RDY4WAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Augusta, Ga
Posts: 11,806
                     
iTrader: 0 reviews
The Republican vs Democrat debate is like a Chevy vs Ford debate. People are going to align themselves to one side or the other and don't care to hear any ounce of logic from the other side. If you try telling a Ford fanboy that small block Chevy heads outflow small block Ford heads, they'll deny it all day long... even though it's the truth. If you try tell a Chevy fanboy that small block Ford blocks are stronger and superior for stroker engines, they'll also deny it all day long... even though it's the truth.

If the 2 sides of the aisle would just come together and work out the best of both worlds, you'd have a kickass engine. The same can be said for politics. However, this actually happened in the domestic engine world. Chevy engineers met with Ford engineers and came up with a great design that had good crankcase clearance, extremely good flowing heads (for factory heads anyway), an independent intake manifold to reduce intake heat, etc... Ford rejected the plans and went with the modular engine instead. Chevy accepted the plans and the LS platform was born which then roflstomped the shit out of the modular platform the next 15 years. Even today, you see guys putting superchargers on 2v 4.6L just to get 380-400whp. On an LS1, that's a cold air, headers, ported TB, a mild cam, and tune. Bam, you're there for a fraction of the cost. You will never convince a diehard modular fan of this however. Again, this is how politics works.
Woodman likes this.

1993 Camaro bracket car
2002 Tahoe family/tow rig
2006 Altima daily
RDY4WAR is offline  
post #377 of 419 Old December 22nd, 2016, 10:18 AM
MM Fanatic
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 4,562
               
iTrader: 0 reviews
I think the thing that troubles me the most is the press. For as long as I can remember, they've aligned themselves with the Democrat/Liberal side, and the free press shouldn't have a side. They should be investigating and reporting on everything, not just regurgitating what the White House staffers tell them to. We've as a group gotten so used to being given very little actual truth in the news that we actively fight against people telling us more of the story and giving it some perspective.

Case in point, the pipeline issue in South Dakota. The vast majority of the Tribe's claims were untrue or previously worked out. It's a bid for attention and the media ate it up without doing any due diligence on it.

The reason we have a free press is to keep the government in check. They have the ability to report corruption, the ability to report all the crimes, and they are protected by the constitution that if they shine a light on illegal activity performed by the government, the government cannot go after them. Yet they carry the torch for a horribly corrupt person, and act as cheerleaders.

It's pathetic.
Eagle2000GT likes this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
Woodman is offline  
post #378 of 419 Old December 22nd, 2016, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
missippi roolz
 
socialist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,983
         
iTrader: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR View Post
... try telling a Ford fanboy that small block Chevy heads outflow small block Ford heads, they'll deny it all day long...
What the fuck did you just say to me?!?!?!
Woodman likes this.

A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked. (Mark 14:51-52)
socialist is online now  
post #379 of 419 Old December 22nd, 2016, 12:07 PM
US Air Force (retired)
 
Eagle2000GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 13,429
                     
Garage
iTrader: 1 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR View Post
The Republican vs Democrat debate is like a Chevy vs Ford debate. People are going to align themselves to one side or the other and don't care to hear any ounce of logic from the other side. If you try telling a Ford fanboy that small block Chevy heads outflow small block Ford heads, they'll deny it all day long... even though it's the truth. If you try tell a Chevy fanboy that small block Ford blocks are stronger and superior for stroker engines, they'll also deny it all day long... even though it's the truth.
It's more than that. It's the Chevy fanboys creating a law mandating a Chevy motor in a Ford and then using the full force of government to enforce it.
RDY4WAR and Woodman like this.

ProCharger P-1SC, 9 psi, STD 396/383; Uncorrected 388/375; SAE 383/370.
Ret. USAF 1969-1973,1980-1996: Vietnam veteran. Aircraft maintenance. R & D, ICBM Operations.
Also own: 1997 Harley FXDWG, 1998 F-150, and 2002 Corvette LS1
Eagle2000GT is offline  
post #380 of 419 Old December 22nd, 2016, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
missippi roolz
 
socialist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,983
         
iTrader: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle2000GT View Post
It's more than that. It's the Chevy fanboys creating a law mandating a Chevy motor in a Ford and then using the full force of government to enforce it.
OR, to make your analogy even scarier: It's the Ford fanboys creating a law mandating a 4.6L 2V motor in a Chevy and then using the full force of government to enforce it.

I'd say there's more people open to an LS swap on this planet than a Modular 2V swap. Us dirty liberals WILL PUT MODULAR TWO VALVES IN ALL VEHICLES!
Woodman likes this.

A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked. (Mark 14:51-52)
socialist is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Forums at Modded Mustangs forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome