What I Expect A Trump Administration Will Do - Page 10 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #181 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 01:25 PM
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You're wasting your time. It will be viewed as "liberal propaganda" or "the liberal media bias". Boehner and Luntz will be labeled as a RINO's and the unmitigated ignorance will continue.

John
Haha, I know. I originally PM'd it to SixPoint knowing it was a fruitless effort but figured some others might be interested. It's funny because that kind of response just proves the point really. If you go back in time, those guys obviously toed the line and started out by being totally on board with everything. Then the TEA partiers came in and took it to the ultimate extreme with the sole intention of preventing Obama from doing anything at all. So now they just point to "well he just didn't want to cooperate and acted like a dictator". And then once the more level-headed ones were like "whoa, shit guys, this is getting out of hand" the party turned on them and treated them like they were liberals all along when really, it was the party that moved away.

Whatever. Now we're supposed to "give Trump a chance". lulz okay...

BTW: Vice News is certainly left leaning, but they mostly just let the people they're interviewing do the talking and it's really interesting to hear Boehner and Luntz talk about their experiences where they were completely opposed to Obama but the more extreme members turned on them for trying to not derail every little thing and yelling at Obama during presidential addresses trying to shit on his character instead of his political leanings. Once Joe Wilson yelled "You lie!" at Obama, he became a TEA party celebrity and it spiraled out of control from there.

But yeah, it's easier to just tell us we're brainwashed by the propaganda so I guess I'll just accept that I'm no longer a free thinker and want everyone's guns rounded up.

Sorry, I forgot where I was trying to go with this. Basically: the polarization will not be mended anytime in the foreseeable future and we will likely continue to be pushed in opposite directions based on a few key issues until the empire falls.
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post #182 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 01:33 PM
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Have Democrats ever said that they were going to make a concerted effort to keep any president from being successful in office? As far as Harry Reid, you need to look no further than your own primaries to find equal bile.

Durwood, you seem to be OK with the new level of low. As far as "win at any cost" how about we put the team politics aside and do what is best for the country.



It's one thing to throw a tantrum because your candidate lost. It's quite another to make a concerted effort to sabotage the winners administration and in doing so hurt the country.
Again, are you serious?
Obama and the Democrats have been doing nothing but trying to undermine Trump's presidency for the last two months.

I'm not "ok" with the "new low" (which isn't a new low, it's the same low it's always been just from a different perspective). I don't like politics, politicians, etc. I however cannot lie to myself and say that it's any different, because it really isn't. The fine details change with the era, but it's like saying, "When I was your age, we didn't..." when we damn well did, it just wasn't recorded constantly in live feeds and facebook posts.

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Yes you are correct. Democrats aren't looking for that. Any idea why there has been a paradigm shift in trying to work things out? Maybe the landscape has changed due to extremist in your party and your candidates demeanor?
There hasn't been a paradigm shift. The sides have been devolving to not working together for decades. Look at George W Bush's presidency. There was absolutely no go between from the R to the D, he was a poor president because he didn't even try to veto anything, but he would have lost because the Democrats had essentially a veto proof majority. To say that the rift is new is in-genuine at best.
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So on the one hand your frustrated because Democrats are talking about not cooperating but at the same time you are saying the party shouldn't be such a push over and should resist. So which stance should they take?

John
I'm not complaining about Democrats not cooperating. Where did I complain about that? I complain about Democrats AND Republicans not doing their actual job, instead choosing to micromanage everyone and tax us to death. As far as not cooperating, that seems to be the status quo right now. Instead of being party line, I really wish they'd listen to their constituents throughout their entire state, not just the ones in the big cities like New York, Chicago, and LA/SanFran/SanDiego.

I did say I don't expect them to roll over and comply, if they just did that, why would anyone vote for them? The Republicans have been rolling over and complying for decades now, and it pisses me off.

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post #183 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 02:25 PM
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Didn't we discuss the wall previous in which most of the conservatives on here talked about the merits of how a physical wall would stop, or at least majorly deter, illegal immigration? I would imagine that if you're going to put that much energy into talking about it you actually believe that a physical wall was going to be erected if Trump was elected. So what did Eagle say about common sense?

John
I can't speak for all but when I heard him talking about building a wall I just wrote it off like when people are campaigning saying they are going to balance the budget. Uh huh... Yeah right. The wall will never be built and anything be done is just for show. The idea of the wall was nothing more than a catchy gimmick. We voted for Trump and not for a wall. If the wall was the only reason they voted for Trump then they weren't paying attention to everything else going on. The middle class voted not to follow the democrat logic because the hope and change they were previously promised never came.

As for the discussions on the value of a wall that is a seperTe discussion and can't be tied in together as some are trying to do. Walls are valuable and they do offer us protection. If that wasn't the case then why did Obama build a house with a wall around it? He was as anti-wall as it gets yet he still saw the function in it to keep out people that would disrupt or hurt his family.
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post #184 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 02:33 PM
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Silly discussion to even have but a wall around a building is in no way comparable to a wall around a country besides the fact that they're both physical walls. And if that's a valid comparison according to Trump supporters....well we're in for a world of hurt.

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post #185 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 02:50 PM
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Seriously? Do you think the function of a wall changes? Lol

It doesn't matter if you are talking about a wall around a country, a wall around a house, or even the walls of your house. They all serve the same function .

Since it obvious that your process of discussing is to dismiss and insult I will save you the trouble of typing your next post.

Homophobe! Transphobic! Blah blah blah
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post #186 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 02:57 PM
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Sure, but the effectiveness is related to the desires of someone trying to bypass the barrier. The desires of drug cartels, coyotes and illegal immigrants is not the same as someone who is looking to get into a building. Doubt anyone trying to break into your home has the capital or the will to drill a tunnel to bypass your fence or use drones to drop drugs into your front yard.

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post #187 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 03:16 PM
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thats not even a logical argument. The purpose of he barrier is to deter undesirable intentions. It will be as much as is needed to perform its function. Do you really think a house needs as much to keep safe as a country?

It's all about cost to reward... If all someone is going to get from your house is a TV and a gaming console they probably won't spend much more than the cost of a lock pick kit to get it otherwise the cost outweighs the reward. Now if there are hundreds of millions to be gained then spending a couple million is worth it as the reward outweighs the cost.

Either way you are still making a flawed argument because the function of a wall does not change. If you truly think that walls are ineffective I would encourage you to go out of town for a week and leave your garage door (wall) up and see what kind of results you get. Of course you aren't going to actually do that because we both know that having those walls around your possessions will result in fair certainty that undesirable actions will not occur.
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post #188 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 03:27 PM
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Okay...

Welp, there you go @Eagle2000GT - they're referring to a literal wall and I'm going to continue to assume Trump is referring to a literal wall from here on out. Apparently we're going to save billions of dollars by spending billions of dollars building a literal wall.

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post #189 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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You forced him into defending something he already said he didn't really believe. And then used that defense as a justification to say he took Trump's words literally. Perhaps, you should re-read the entire conversation. He said:

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I can't speak for all but when I heard him talking about building a wall I just wrote it off like when people are campaigning saying they are going to balance the budget. Uh huh... Yeah right. The wall will never be built and anything be done is just for show. The idea of the wall was nothing more than a catchy gimmick. We voted for Trump and not for a wall. If the wall was the only reason they voted for Trump then they weren't paying attention to everything else going on. The middle class voted not to follow the democrat logic because the hope and change they were previously promised never came.
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post #190 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 04:15 PM
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Yeah, I was being facetious in order to stop a ridiculous conversation about the nuances of wall construction.
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post #191 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 05:03 PM
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Yeah, I was being facetious in order to stop a ridiculous conversation about the nuances of wall construction.
By responding to a response to another member? Uh huh... Lol

Round and round and round we go, where liberal logic goes no one knows.
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post #192 of 303 Old January 10th, 2017, 05:54 PM
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post #193 of 303 Old January 11th, 2017, 02:20 AM
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So if a wall is so effective for the intended purpose why not build a wall around the entire US? You want a final solution to the problem then that would be it right? Walls are effective in keeping people out. If we really want to effectively keep illegal immigrants out then the only solution is a wall around the entire US. According to you all that is the only way to keep illegal immigrants out. While we're at it why don't we also suspend any international flights going in and out of the US since 40% of illegal immigration comes from expired visas. No more H1B Visas or visas of any kind. This way we can be sure that NO illegal immigration occurs.

We should also dismantle the Statue of Liberty while we're at it since it's message no longer pertains to the US's values. In case you have forgotten.....

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame is the imprisoned lightning and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command the air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she with silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Since their will be no more immigration into or out of the US then the SOL will be a forgotten relic with an outdated message.

If you're going to categorize Trumps rhetoric as only symbolic then it's only fair to also call BHO's "Hope and Change" only symbolic also. Since, in your eyes, he hasn't changed anything or instilled any hope then he shouldn't be held accountable(Yes, I know. Makes absolutely no sense......unless it pertains to your team!)

John
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post #194 of 303 Old January 11th, 2017, 04:54 AM
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So if a wall is so effective for the intended purpose why not build a wall around the entire US? You want a final solution to the problem then that would be it right? Walls are effective in keeping people out. If we really want to effectively keep illegal immigrants out then the only solution is a wall around the entire US. According to you all that is the only way to keep illegal immigrants out. While we're at it why don't we also suspend any international flights going in and out of the US since 40% of illegal immigration comes from expired visas. No more H1B Visas or visas of any kind. This way we can be sure that NO illegal immigration occurs.

We should also dismantle the Statue of Liberty while we're at it since it's message no longer pertains to the US's values. In case you have forgotten.....

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame is the imprisoned lightning and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command the air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she with silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Since their will be no more immigration into or out of the US then the SOL will be a forgotten relic with an outdated message.

If you're going to categorize Trumps rhetoric as only symbolic then it's only fair to also call BHO's "Hope and Change" only symbolic also. Since, in your eyes, he hasn't changed anything or instilled any hope then he shouldn't be held accountable(Yes, I know. Makes absolutely no sense......unless it pertains to your team!)

John
Bro, don't you know that the Statue of Liberty is about as un-American as it gets? nothing made in France can be trusted. It was probably a liberal ploy to dilute the American way in the first place.

BUILD THE WALL!!!
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post #195 of 303 Old January 11th, 2017, 12:14 PM
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---------- Post added at 08:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 AM ----------

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We should also dismantle the Statue of Liberty while we're at it since it's message no longer pertains to the US's values. In case you have forgotten.....

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame is the imprisoned lightning and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command the air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she with silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Since their will be no more immigration into or out of the US then the SOL will be a forgotten relic with an outdated message.
Something something statue of liberty not recognized by the constitution something something

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post #196 of 303 Old January 11th, 2017, 01:19 PM
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We should also dismantle the Statue of Liberty while we're at it since it's message no longer pertains to the US's values. In case you have forgotten.....

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame is the imprisoned lightning and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command the air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she with silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Since their will be no more immigration into or out of the US then the SOL will be a forgotten relic with an outdated message.


John
This is the problem I have with the "liberal" argument against walls, enforcing immigration laws, etc.
You guys always jump straight from trying to prevent ILLEGAL immigration (be it from crossing the border illegally to stay here, or from semi-intentionally or unintentionally via expired visa, paperwork delay, etc) to NO MORE IMMIGRATION AT ALL! Close the airports! Close the docks! We're our own little club and no girls allowed!

In your attempt to ridicule and misrepresent, you always sneak that little bit in and try to destroy the conversation.

No one, not Trump, not any Republican, no one wants to stop all immigration to the US. That's not how it works, that's not the issue, and you know it.

The issue is that people don't want people coming in illegally. The wall concept isn't any different than the concept of locking the doors to your house, or building a fence to keep uninvited guests off your property, just on a much larger scale.

If you don't understand why we don't want just every single person walking casually across the border to come in to the US and do any damn thing they want, then you are a fool. No one wants to stop immigration to the US, and on one of the few things I agree with SixPointSlow on, we do need to overhaul the immigration system. Just opening the gates and letting everyone in is not the answer, giving those who are here illegally (for whatever reason) a get out of jail free card is also not the answer. There is no "One size fits all" solution, it needs to be case by case. For example, if your visa expired and you've been working, paying bills, etc and the paperwork got misplaced/misfiled/lost, get that shit filled out and no harm, no foul. If you're sneaking across the border in the middle of the night, then GTFO. The "wall" whether physical or hypothetical is not to stop immigration, it is to stop illegal ALIENS (if you are here illegally, you are not an immigrant).

It's not a difficult concept. No other country in the entire world has an open border. Try to walk casually into Mexico, see how that works out for you. Try to walk into Canada, see how that goes. In either place, or in fact anywhere in Europe, Asia, etc, try to get government handouts such as welfare, food, medicine, etc without being a legalized citizen of those countries.

Stop turning it into a ludicrous argument as to why enforcing our immigration laws is bad. It's not. Instead, work on a focused, intelligent way to clean up the legal immigration process that is both useful to the United States in general, and easy enough to not require a fortune and tons of paperwork.

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post #197 of 303 Old January 11th, 2017, 01:31 PM
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This is the problem I have with the "liberal" argument against walls, enforcing immigration laws, etc.
You guys always jump straight from trying to prevent ILLEGAL immigration (be it from crossing the border illegally to stay here, or from semi-intentionally or unintentionally via expired visa, paperwork delay, etc) to NO MORE IMMIGRATION AT ALL! Close the airports! Close the docks! We're our own little club and no girls allowed!

In your attempt to ridicule and misrepresent, you always sneak that little bit in and try to destroy the conversation.

No one, not Trump, not any Republican, no one wants to stop all immigration to the US. That's not how it works, that's not the issue, and you know it.

The issue is that people don't want people coming in illegally. The wall concept isn't any different than the concept of locking the doors to your house, or building a fence to keep uninvited guests off your property, just on a much larger scale.

If you don't understand why we don't want just every single person walking casually across the border to come in to the US and do any damn thing they want, then you are a fool. No one wants to stop immigration to the US, and on one of the few things I agree with SixPointSlow on, we do need to overhaul the immigration system. Just opening the gates and letting everyone in is not the answer, giving those who are here illegally (for whatever reason) a get out of jail free card is also not the answer. There is no "One size fits all" solution, it needs to be case by case. For example, if your visa expired and you've been working, paying bills, etc and the paperwork got misplaced/misfiled/lost, get that shit filled out and no harm, no foul. If you're sneaking across the border in the middle of the night, then GTFO. The "wall" whether physical or hypothetical is not to stop immigration, it is to stop illegal ALIENS (if you are here illegally, you are not an immigrant).

It's not a difficult concept. No other country in the entire world has an open border. Try to walk casually into Mexico, see how that works out for you. Try to walk into Canada, see how that goes. In either place, or in fact anywhere in Europe, Asia, etc, try to get government handouts such as welfare, food, medicine, etc without being a legalized citizen of those countries.

Stop turning it into a ludicrous argument as to why enforcing our immigration laws is bad. It's not. Instead, work on a focused, intelligent way to clean up the legal immigration process that is both useful to the United States in general, and easy enough to not require a fortune and tons of paperwork.
I have no problem with fighting illegal immigration. I think you're right it needs to be case-by-case in some of the more complicated situations - sending an adopted kid back to South Korea because he's technically an illegal immigrant even though he's literally never stepped foot in South Korea and doesn't speak a lick of the language is the kind of special situation that you can't just say "welp sorry! good luck you illegal bitch".

The fact of the matter is, whether the few of you on here believe Trump is talking about a physical wall or not, he never implies anything besides a physical wall. And whether you believe it or not, a large amount of his supporters expect such a thing. But why the fuck would we spend billions of dollars creating something that will only prevent a handful (most likely literally since criminals tend to find easy ways around physical barriers) of people from becoming illegal immigrants. Especially when a large number of illegal immigrants are, as Nova pointed out, here on expired visas. It's a waste of money - something conservatives tout as them being superior at: correct allocation of money for proper usage. But so many of his supporters are on board for this silly, expensive idea because they've been convinced their financial hardship is due to these Mexicans coming over and stealing all their tax dollars. It's a simple thing to blame and takes no critical thought to place the blame there instead of actually looking at the real causes of their financial hardship.

Trump proposes simple, easy to swallow solutions to complex issues and it's easy for the base to lick it all up without actually having to understand the situation. I can guarantee that the same people will be in the same situation in four years that they're in now. The only saving grace is that they can convince themselves that it was somehow the fault of liberals so they won't ever have to take blame for voting for someone who has never shown any shred of evidence that he understands the plights of blue collar Americans or gives two shits about their well-being.

As long as he can rant on twitter about the boogeyman creating all these problems, the base will continue to do whatever mental gymnastics necessary because it's easier to blame a faceless enemy than to accept that the world's economic landscape is not the same as it was 20 years ago and likely never will be.
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post #198 of 303 Old January 11th, 2017, 02:43 PM
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I have no problem with fighting illegal immigration. I think you're right it needs to be case-by-case in some of the more complicated situations - sending an adopted kid back to South Korea because he's technically an illegal immigrant even though he's literally never stepped foot in South Korea and doesn't speak a lick of the language is the kind of special situation that you can't just say "welp sorry! good luck you illegal bitch".

The fact of the matter is, whether the few of you on here believe Trump is talking about a physical wall or not, he never implies anything besides a physical wall. And whether you believe it or not, a large amount of his supporters expect such a thing. But why the fuck would we spend billions of dollars creating something that will only prevent a handful (most likely literally since criminals tend to find easy ways around physical barriers) of people from becoming illegal immigrants. Especially when a large number of illegal immigrants are, as Nova pointed out, here on expired visas. It's a waste of money - something conservatives tout as them being superior at: correct allocation of money for proper usage. But so many of his supporters are on board for this silly, expensive idea because they've been convinced their financial hardship is due to these Mexicans coming over and stealing all their tax dollars. It's a simple thing to blame and takes no critical thought to place the blame there instead of actually looking at the real causes of their financial hardship.

Trump proposes simple, easy to swallow solutions to complex issues and it's easy for the base to lick it all up without actually having to understand the situation. I can guarantee that the same people will be in the same situation in four years that they're in now. The only saving grace is that they can convince themselves that it was somehow the fault of liberals so they won't ever have to take blame for voting for someone who has never shown any shred of evidence that he understands the plights of blue collar Americans or gives two shits about their well-being.

As long as he can rant on twitter about the boogeyman creating all these problems, the base will continue to do whatever mental gymnastics necessary because it's easier to blame a faceless enemy than to accept that the world's economic landscape is not the same as it was 20 years ago and likely never will be.
I do not disagree with your overall statement.

Physical walls can only do so much, but don't fall into the argument that doing X will only result in a small amount of improvement.

If that were the case, why is murder illegal? It being a crime only stops a small number of murders. Why lock our doors? It only stops the most lazy criminals.

I am not one who thinks that he'll either build the "Make America Great Again Wall" or anything else. I KNOW that as President, he's only got so much power, and he needs everyone in Congress and the Senate behind him (or at least a majority) to get anything done. He can't executive order a wall, he can't write a law for it, etc.

For me, it is the intent behind the "wall", be it physical or not, that I agree with. We use the people and items we have on hand to oppose illegal aliens. I don't care what the "vast majority" is be it overstayed visas or people walking across the border in Texas and California. I want those who are here just to take from us out. I don't care if it provides more jobs for landscapers and folks hanging out in front of Home Depot looking for construction work, I don't care what the actual numbers are, we have laws that I feel are sensible about just coming over the border, enforce them. If they aren't sensible, change them. Doing nothing is a poor choice, and is almost 100% an attempt at buying votes.

I don't think anyone here is an actual idiot. I wish that instead of going back to cheap, bullshit arguments, we could actually talk about it without being snarky, obtuse, and playing the misdirection game.

It shouldn't be about "winning the argument" in my opinion, and making the other guy stop arguing isn't a victory anyway. f you have a better idea, say it. Be open to differing ideas, and if your idea ultimately isn't very good, accept it and learn from it. It's not that hard!

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Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
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ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
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post #199 of 303 Old January 11th, 2017, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
I do not disagree with your overall statement.

Physical walls can only do so much, but don't fall into the argument that doing X will only result in a small amount of improvement.

If that were the case, why is murder illegal? It being a crime only stops a small number of murders. Why lock our doors? It only stops the most lazy criminals.

I am not one who thinks that he'll either build the "Make America Great Again Wall" or anything else. I KNOW that as President, he's only got so much power, and he needs everyone in Congress and the Senate behind him (or at least a majority) to get anything done. He can't executive order a wall, he can't write a law for it, etc.

For me, it is the intent behind the "wall", be it physical or not, that I agree with. We use the people and items we have on hand to oppose illegal aliens. I don't care what the "vast majority" is be it overstayed visas or people walking across the border in Texas and California. I want those who are here just to take from us out. I don't care if it provides more jobs for landscapers and folks hanging out in front of Home Depot looking for construction work, I don't care what the actual numbers are, we have laws that I feel are sensible about just coming over the border, enforce them. If they aren't sensible, change them. Doing nothing is a poor choice, and is almost 100% an attempt at buying votes.

I don't think anyone here is an actual idiot. I wish that instead of going back to cheap, bullshit arguments, we could actually talk about it without being snarky, obtuse, and playing the misdirection game.

It shouldn't be about "winning the argument" in my opinion, and making the other guy stop arguing isn't a victory anyway. f you have a better idea, say it. Be open to differing ideas, and if your idea ultimately isn't very good, accept it and learn from it. It's not that hard!
I don't know man. Obviously, we can get by without be snarky assholes, but things have gotten out of control across the spectrum. We can't really have legitimate discussions anymore because our only points of reference are anecdotes and news stories. Anecdotes mean precisely nothing in reference to an entire nation and all any of us have to do to discredit news stories is say "well they're owned by liberals/conservatives" or now the easy "#FakeNews" (which really was meant to apply to foreign organizations creating completely fabricated websites and stories to make money off ad-revenue but is now being thrown around by the same people that were completely duped by those stories towards more legitimate news institutions simply because they put a political party in a bad light).

I really don't see any recovery in this. I feel like I've made some pretty decent arguments in the past but when I do they get glanced over and the less important things in the posts get selected out of it instead. And believe me, I'm pretty sure every single one of us here both feels the same way and does the same thing to others. (hell, I'm doing it right here by completely disregarding your post besides the last two paragraphs)

How can there be any legitimate discussion when all it takes to discredit someone is a quick anecdote and a "made up by liberal/conservative media" quip? This seems to be the world we live in now and the only people that could legitimately make an argument one way or another are political analysts or experts in the fields. We've become saturated by bullshit and it makes literally every source of legitimate information illegitimate.

We can't trust the media, we can't trust the politicians, we can't trust the experts, we can't trust the scientists, we can't trust the teachers, we can't trust intelligence agencies, we can't trust the business executives, we can't trust numbers, we can't trust data, we can't trust statistics. We're fucked, absolutely fucked. The only thing holding any of us together by a small fabric is that some of us are willing to realize that politicizing everything is not worth destroying relationships over. And now, even that number seems to be decreasing.

We live in one of the greatest periods in human history yet millions of people have been convinced that we're spiraling out of control and somehow, some arbitrary point of time in the past was better than it is now. But who gives a fuck what the numbers say? My anecdotal experience and rose-tinted-past-viewing-glasses have shown me that we are in an absolute shithole.

We could achieve incredible things right now but it's not going to happen because we've been destroyed by information overload. We double down on our positions when they've been proven to be false because it's better to win than to be humble and admit a misunderstanding. We have immediate access to information, whether true or false, to back up our claims.

So it feels like there is no legitimate discussion left to be had. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong and here's a source of information to prove it. Doubt me? You're a brainwashed idiot just like this handful of extremists I saw on this video the other day...
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post #200 of 303 Old January 11th, 2017, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by brtnstrns View Post
We could achieve incredible things right now but it's not going to happen because we've been destroyed by information overload. We double down on our positions when they've been proven to be false because it's better to win than to be humble and admit a misunderstanding. We have immediate access to information, whether true or false, to back up our claims.
I agree with you, and I think the section I highlighted sums it up succinctly. As in many other things, people are far too concerned with winning at all costs than concerning themselves with the long term repercussions of "winning".

I like to think I am not quick to just shut someone down and ignore them with an anecdote of my own. I'm sure I've been guilty of it, but I hope it's not my standard operating procedure. If it is, I apologize.

That said, hopefully we as a group can learn not to be like that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAL View Post
ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
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