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post #41 of 53 Old May 22nd, 2018, 02:14 PM
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Long story short... No matter how many preventative measures we take, be it single entry points into a school during the day, staffed metal detectors at the entrances in the morning, bullet proof glass, heavy plated doors with enhanced locking mechanisms, it is literally impossible to protect against every conceivable attack. It is impossible to eliminate all casualties in an attack.

Say we have all the doors locked and alarmed, we add a huge taxpayer burden to pay for all of it, we hire armed resource officers to staff the metal detectors in the mornings, we redesign the schools (all of which I support actually), there is absolutely NOTHING preventing someone from taking a vantage point outside and opening fire as everyone waits in line to get in, or as they exit the building in the afternoon. No amount of security could prevent that, and it's going to happen sooner than later I'm sure.

The issue isn't the guns, it's not the movies, it's not the video games, it's not the music, it's not the fashion, it's not bullying, it's not any of that. It's the simple fact that deranged people do deranged things, and if they want to make a name for themselves, or get petty revenge for a girl saying no to a date, then they'll do anything they can to make it happen because THEY ARE DERANGED. They aren't necessarily "crazy" or "mentally unstable", they can plot and plan and decide it's what they want to do without being otherwise crazy, but they are deranged. They don't value life for whatever reason, or they feel that this is the "appropriate" response when the rest of us don't.

We have air bags, seat belts that pre-tension, radar assisted braking systems, adaptive cruise control, anti lock brakes, back up sensors, advanced crumple zones, and yet people STILL get hit by cars or die in accidents. We can reduce the deaths, but we cannot eliminate them. Same with schools. The safest schools are ones where there are alert, aware resource officers/teachers who are capable of returning fire as well as being WILLING to do so. While it is sad and tragic for those who do die, it is not preventable. Hard to tell someone has a gun till they pull it out and start shooting. Same thing with the subway slasher in China a few years ago. Killed quite a few and maimed over a dozen if I recall correctly. With a KNIFE. All because it was a crowded place, a silent weapon, and you can cut someone badly without them realizing it or how bad it is.

People are dangerous, the tools are just that, tools.

What exactly are you saying here that we should just say forget all of those preventive measures because what’s gonna happen is gonna happen regardless of what anyone does. So let’s just drop all defenses or any type of preventive measure from an attack and let nature take it’s course?

Then again never mind just took another look at your statements again I guess that’s not entirely what you are saying.

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post #42 of 53 Old May 22nd, 2018, 03:04 PM
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The more layers of security you have the better chance of stopping a potential shooter. I’ve been through ALERRT active shooter training twice and the best deterrent is armed officers on campus. For those schools that can not afford to pay $35-$50 a hour per officer, arming certain staff members is the next best choice.
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post #43 of 53 Old May 22nd, 2018, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Lee. 30 View Post
What exactly are you saying here that we should just say forget all of those preventive measures because whatís gonna happen is gonna happen regardless of what anyone does. So letís just drop all defenses or any type of preventive measure from an attack and let nature take itís course?

Then again never mind just took another look at your statements again I guess thatís not entirely what you are saying.
I see you're getting more of my point, but I'll elaborate.

I am all for putting forth sensible preventative measures. I lock my doors even when I'm home because I don't want anyone just walking into my house, period. I lock my car to keep my stuff inside it. I don't leave things in my car, I bring it inside at night so long as it's reasonable to do so.

I want my daughter's school to be locked from the outside during the day. I want only one access, with preferably toughened glass between the people at the administrative desk and the entry hall to decide who gets in and who does not. I'd like metal detectors even though it's going to raise my taxes. We already have cameras all over the school, I am all for as many preventative measures as possible.

What I am against, and what I have always been against, is the punishment of all the 99% of gun owners who are law abiding, responsible, and practice good gun safety and use. Who do not shoot up schools, bars, malls, etc. Who are there and capable of shooting a bad guy if the opportunity presents itself. I don't want another ineffective "gun ban" because OMG, it was used in a crime! It was used in some crimes! That is stupid, and it only plays into the emotional aspect of the issue instead of the root causes AND the actual hard numbers of how many crimes they're used in. I'm tired of the gun being the bad thing, not the person with the gun. Someone drives a car through a mall, do we blame Ford or Dodge? No. Someone drinks too much and runs over a kid walking on the side of the road, do we blame Budweiser? No. Stop blaming the gun. The gun isn't the killer. It doesn't make killing "easy". It takes skill and ability to make a shot, blind luck in a crowded room goes far, but the gun doesn't make it "easy". It is just another tool. Kid could have rushed in with his IED's and blown up his object of affection. He could have snuck up and stabbed her in the back, he could have strapped the IED's to himself even. It's the PERSON, not the object that conceptualizes and carries out the crime. Punish the CRIMINAL, not everyone else.
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woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
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ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
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post #44 of 53 Old May 22nd, 2018, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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I agree. And, if it is already against the law (maybe a couple of times over) then what good is another law going to do?

I don't remember a single school shooting where one of the new laws being proposed (outside of complete confiscation) would have stopped the shooting. There may be others but in the ones I remember the teens got their guns illegally. One even killed his own mother to get them. I also don't remember any other mass shooting where the new gun laws, especially the overly intrusive universal background check, would have stopped the shooting.

The pitiful cry of "we much do something" is a cry of the ignorant that do not know that several laws were broken already or that nothing they are proposing would have made a difference. I feel bad for them because they know so little about the subject.

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post #45 of 53 Old May 22nd, 2018, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
I see you're getting more of my point, but I'll elaborate.

I am all for putting forth sensible preventative measures. I lock my doors even when I'm home because I don't want anyone just walking into my house, period. I lock my car to keep my stuff inside it. I don't leave things in my car, I bring it inside at night so long as it's reasonable to do so.

I want my daughter's school to be locked from the outside during the day. I want only one access, with preferably toughened glass between the people at the administrative desk and the entry hall to decide who gets in and who does not. I'd like metal detectors even though it's going to raise my taxes. We already have cameras all over the school, I am all for as many preventative measures as possible.

What I am against, and what I have always been against, is the punishment of all the 99% of gun owners who are law abiding, responsible, and practice good gun safety and use. Who do not shoot up schools, bars, malls, etc. Who are there and capable of shooting a bad guy if the opportunity presents itself. I don't want another ineffective "gun ban" because OMG, it was used in a crime! It was used in some crimes! That is stupid, and it only plays into the emotional aspect of the issue instead of the root causes AND the actual hard numbers of how many crimes they're used in. I'm tired of the gun being the bad thing, not the person with the gun. Someone drives a car through a mall, do we blame Ford or Dodge? No. Someone drinks too much and runs over a kid walking on the side of the road, do we blame Budweiser? No. Stop blaming the gun. The gun isn't the killer. It doesn't make killing "easy". It takes skill and ability to make a shot, blind luck in a crowded room goes far, but the gun doesn't make it "easy". It is just another tool. Kid could have rushed in with his IED's and blown up his object of affection. He could have snuck up and stabbed her in the back, he could have strapped the IED's to himself even. It's the PERSON, not the object that conceptualizes and carries out the crime. Punish the CRIMINAL, not everyone else.

I gotcha, points taken.
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post #46 of 53 Old May 23rd, 2018, 03:26 AM
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Here is another one. This woman is also 22. The first one was in Ohio. This one is in Tennessee.
Tennessee college senior defends posing for graduation picture with gun in her waistband | Fox News

I think that when millennial women are strong 2A supporters the anti-gunners are losing the argument.
Eagle, I know you're older, but I have news for you...

Death threats from the internet are, well, very common. People made death threats to the actors who played the characters that fictitiously murdered Jon Snow on Game of Thrones. Yes, they(people on the internet) made death threats over the not real death of a not real TV show character.
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post #47 of 53 Old May 23rd, 2018, 09:03 AM
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We must all stay vigilante and make sure for every time some left wing idiot tries to speak out to take our first or second amendment rights that ten of us speak out in favor of our rights. That is the only way we will stop them. One day, their will be a time where we may have to lock and load!!! Stay Vigilante and alert my fellow Patriots!!!!
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post #48 of 53 Old May 23rd, 2018, 11:40 AM
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Eagle, I know you're older, but I have news for you...

Death threats from the internet are, well, very common. People made death threats to the actors who played the characters that fictitiously murdered Jon Snow on Game of Thrones. Yes, they(people on the internet) made death threats over the not real death of a not real TV show character.
As well as fictional couples on television shows because they're pissed they're not actually romantically involved in real life *vomit* bunch of freaks!

ďA young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked.Ē (Mark 14:51-52)
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post #49 of 53 Old May 23rd, 2018, 02:12 PM
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As well as fictional couples on television shows because they're pissed they're not actually romantically involved in real life *vomit* bunch of freaks!
You mean that *GASP!* people who have the illusion of anonymity drop their filters and demonstrate just how unreasonable they might actually be behind the facade they show the world?

Say it isn't so!

Again, it's a numbers game. For every weirdo who makes death threats about "anything" they see on the internet, be it a president promoting things they personally don't agree with to fictional characters doing fictional things with fictional relationships and fictional deaths, there are literally thousands of us, if not millions of us who know it's not THAT big a deal and can be voted out, or retconned depending on what the situation happens to be.

The media however paints it out like it's a huge epidemic, unreasonable people posting mean things on the internet MUST STOP! Let's make up a poorly thought out law to make that ILLEGAL! Then it'll surely never happen again! They do that about EVERYTHING. Tide pods were never, ever, ever an epidemic of teenagers eating them. When they were first introduced, it was a concern toddlers would eat them because toddlers are putting everything they can reach in their mouths. Irresponsible parents may have had an issue with it, but that's on the PARENT, not Tide. Then, some kids dig it up with the Tide Pod Challenge which was more than likely a freaking joke in the first place, and the media ran headlong with it, never ever once doing any kind of fact checking. We had politicians having heated meetings about PUTTING A STOP TO THIS KIND OF THING! Threatening legal action and new laws over something that was never an actual problem.

And yes, it comes back to gun laws. As we all know, all of gun "violence" (which includes suicide and legal, defensive shootings for some reason) is the absolute lowest cause of death out there regarding violence in general, and very low on the grand scheme of all deaths. Gun "violence" involving the use of an AR pattern rifle, or any rifle period, is I believe less than 1% of all gun "violence" I believe (working off memory, the point being it's a ridiculously low number, and always has been). So, the use of the media to proclaim the gun as "high powered" "more dangerous" etc is just trying to force people into believing it because the lie gets retold so many times. Again using Tide pods as a reference, so many people believed it was an actual problem for the "impressionable youth" that some stores put their laundry detergent behind locked doors, and lawmakers wanted to make laws against LAUNDRY DETERGENT. And so, even though very, very few people actually die from AR-15 inflicted gunshots every year. those who believe that their virtue signalling is more important than facts, history, and our actual rights wish to ban those evil, black rifles (so does that make them racist?) because "No one needs one!". Well, what I "need" and what you "need" are debatable subjects, but the fact of the matter is, AR pattern rifles are NOT "more powerful", they are in fact low power as far as rifles go. They are not "more dangerous" or "more efficient killing machines" due to their lower power. A 30 round magazine is not "more deadly" than a 10 round magazine. A kid with a 6 shot revolver (could have also been a 5 shot snub nose for all I know) and a (I believe) double barrelled shotgun killed/injured 20 people in Texas, which shows that magazine limitations don't work as far as "reducing" violence.

It's all bullshit, no matter how you slice it. The vast majority of the population don't kill, don't use their abilities, their tools, and their minds to plan out murder sprees. Making any gun illegal won't stop those few who do plan those things out from carrying out their goals. Banning any kind of gun doesn't do anything to reduce or to prevent crime.

What does work is when those in authority PAY ATTENTION to those who say, "So and So is planning a shooting spree." That didn't happen in Florida. That didn't happen in Santa Fe. Instead of taking guns away from the millions of people who use them properly and safely, do some background work (which is what the background check system is for in the first place) and if possible, prevent sales to those who show violence (as would have worked had the FBI been on the ball in Florida), and if you're a parent, have enough sense to lock up your guns and notice when your kid is acting like he's going to do something stupid.

I hate seeing any kind of shooting, because it always ends up getting law abiding citizens more hoops to jump through that does nothing to prevent crime. Use the tools and laws we already have, stop making new ones to make it "extra illegal".

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woodman: achieving the impossible since 1967. 1973? 1980? 1985? 1976? whatever, you get my point
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ford's advertising slogan was literally "you can pay for all of it today or you can go fuck yourself"
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post #50 of 53 Old May 23rd, 2018, 09:02 PM
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As well as fictional couples on television shows because they're pissed they're not actually romantically involved in real life *vomit* bunch of freaks!
It's all thanks to the hacker known as 4chan...

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post #51 of 53 Old May 26th, 2018, 02:31 AM
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Are you drunk? We went from the relevance of an online death threat in today's society to some deep, unrelated personal shit there.
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post #52 of 53 Old May 26th, 2018, 03:04 AM Thread Starter
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Are you drunk? We went from the relevance of an online death threat in today's society to some deep, unrelated personal shit there.
Sorry. Right now. I'm very drunk. It has been a very bad day. Bad memories are almost overwhelming me. I apologize to all of you. Seriously, I should have more control. I deleted some stuff. All of that wasn't relevant to our discussion anyway.
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post #53 of 53 Old May 26th, 2018, 06:50 AM
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Sorry. Right now. I'm very drunk. It has been a very bad day. Bad memories are almost overwhelming me. I apologize to all of you. Seriously, I should have more control. I deleted some stuff. All of that wasn't relevant to our discussion anyway.
All good, Eagle. We all have our days. Some worse than others.

Except JohnC, fuck that guy.
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