Only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun* - Page 4 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #61 of 142 Old December 8th, 2018, 08:47 PM
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Whatís fucked up is all the assumptions you have to come to in order to just declare this as fact. The assumption, by so many, that his race absolutely played a fact in him getting shot is absurd. Again, can you tell me more about the situation? Do you know anything that was happening when the innocent man was shot? Do you know what the original report was to the police? Do you know how many people the officer that shot the innocent man saw, who were holding guns before he shot?


Itís people like you who make your assumptions, regardless of your complete ignorance of anything that actually happened, as fact that are the problem. You donít just get to say that race is factor, just because a white person shoots a black person. What you never seem to ever see, is the hypocrisy in your posts. You are turning it into a race issue, while knowing nothing other than a white man shot a black man, and accusing me of wanting the simple answer. How convienent of you to go back to the first question I posed, and ignore the questions where I was actually making my point. I am not saying race wasnít a factor because I donít know. You on the other hand are saying it as fact, when just like me, you donít know. The problem is people like you who canít say the words ďI donít know,Ē so you just feel that your assumptions are truth. Thatís the problem.
I make my "assumptions" based on direct LEO sourcing. Perhaps in your part of the country things are different but I doubt it. I get that you want police to be perceived as the altruistic ideal person we should follow as an example but that isn't the case. Much like we have criminals and bad apples in society that same cross section appears in our police force. Most of the population are good, law abiding citizens(even the illegal ones) but there are always bad apples in the bunch. Same goes for police.

Los Angeles is probably one of the most diverse cities in the US and our police force reflects that diversity. I've talked to every different type race that is a LEO in the L.A.P.D. and all of them tell me the same thing. For such a diverse cross section to come up with the same viewpoint tells me that the brotherhood has permeated their value system. It doesn't matter what race the LEO is. They all have the same perception. Granted, some less than others but the view pretty much follows a similar thread whoever the LEO is. This is the influence the brotherhood has on not only their views but their actions that stem from those same views.

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post #62 of 142 Old December 8th, 2018, 09:10 PM
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I make my "assumptions" based on direct LEO sourcing. Perhaps in your part of the country things are different but I doubt it. I get that you want police to be perceived as the altruistic ideal person we should follow as an example but that isn't the case. Much like we have criminals and bad apples in society that same cross section appears in our police force. Most of the population are good, law abiding citizens(even the illegal ones) but there are always bad apples in the bunch. Same goes for police.

Los Angeles is probably one of the most diverse cities in the US and our police force reflects that diversity. I've talked to every different type race that is a LEO in the L.A.P.D. and all of them tell me the same thing. For such a diverse cross section to come up with the same viewpoint tells me that the brotherhood has permeated their value system. It doesn't matter what race the LEO is. They all have the same perception. Granted, some less than others but the view pretty much follows a similar thread whoever the LEO is. This is the influence the brotherhood has on not only their views but their actions that stem from those same views.

John
What does any of that BS have to do with any of the questions I asked? Again, you make more assumptions, and now it’s about how I want police perceived. Something else you assume and make up, all while spewing irrelevant propaganda to distract from the only FACT here, and that’s that you don’t know. You are basing your opinion on assumption, which is my whole point. Again, you know nothing of the situation. This is the whole problem......you are the problem

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post #63 of 142 Old December 8th, 2018, 09:45 PM
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I hate seeing "he was shot x times" as though that shows some kind of bias, agression, etc. In a defensive situation, you are trained to shoot until the threat stops. That doesn't mean shoot once, wait for a reaction, then make a choice. You shoot till the bad guy (or in this case, good guy) drops.

Add into it in a panic situation, most people lose count of how many times they fire. Add to it marksmanship in a panic situation is sketchy most of the time, it's a recipe for disaster no matter what.

It's very unfortunate that the good guy got shot this time around. I blame the officer for being jumpy, not so much racism. But, my tune may change once I see the video.

Remember the shooting in Minneapolis a few years ago where what's his name, Castille, was shot repeatedly at a traffic stop? Before the video was released, everyone was claiming racism, mostly because of the very well thought out video that his girlfriend shot as he lay dying next to her. She knew exactly the impact that would have. The reality is, the officer that was telling him repeatedly to stop reaching for whatever he was reaching for (after telling the officer he was armed mind you), and him not complying is what got him shot. First off, in MN you are not obligated to inform an officer you are carrying unless they directly ask you. Second, if you do notify the officer in the interest of your safety, YOU FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS. Don't make the officer nervous. Don't reach where the officer cannot see what's in your hand. Officer says stop moving, you stop moving. Then, you don't get shot.

I'm doubtful the situation we're discussing in this thread is the same, but I'm not quick to blame racism either. Just because a jumpy cop overreacts and shoots a black man, doesn't mean he's racist. Just means he grossly overreacted and had shitty training.

If, however, it turns out he just targeted the nearest black man with a gun, then yup, that's racism.

Let’s try to disregard this or that person was shot X number of times bc I don’t really think that’s the point. I think the point is being offensive or defenseless if you shoot someone in the front who is facing you armed or unarmed not even gonna mention if they are firing at you or not bc our rules of engagement use to be different on that vs shooting someone in the back of the head or back Period no matter the number of times. As far as “threats” go and being offensive and defenseless shots or a shot to the back seems a bit different vs someone wo is facing you forget the number be it 1 or 5.

I hear your point on some people losing count in various situations I can tell you over the years I personally.... then again I’m not gonna talk about personal situations and experiences based off of how some have reacted to that in the past I will just say if it’s your profession you should do your best to perfect it and be completely professional about it. After 03 they use to make us document rounds fired for various reason.

As far as interactions with the police(not all of course) I guess some just don’t understand and may never understand the attitude and demeanor can be night and day when they are dealing with one person vs another for the same exact offense. Some ppl know that and experience that and have been experiencing that shit since they were kids so you bet their ass when pulled over they will let an officer know they have a weapon even if they are licensed for it. Let’s say that officer like the one that has spoke in here has already in a way profiled them bc they are not in a suit and tie and fits whatever tie description of a trouble maker, gang banger etc... is so this officer is already on edge on top of the social bs and he happens to come across this gun that you didn’t notify he or she of that situation hell blink hard if you wanna.

So yeah it may be your right to not notify them of the weapon but shit man there are some different realities out there. I will just say I guess a man will never know what it’s like to walk in a woman’s shoes from day to day she can explain her head off but to actually live it is different just like in some other situations to actually live it it’s different no amount of explanation will paint the picture. So yeah it’s fine for some to sit back and say well why do you talk about this and well maybe it didn’t happen bc of that and we all have the right to do this or that etc... but man you have to realize some move and act different bc of the night and day treatments for doing the same thing someone else is doing.

There is seemingly this nervousness and fear from the initial approach by some like we are all criminals ppl have seen the differences pointed out over time even
when the last administrations DOJ investigated those mistreatment’s in various larger cities that ended up in the limelight. It wasn’t new news people have been speaking about it for years it just got investigated in those various places bc something big happened there but ppl talk about that crap across the nation even though some turn a blind eye to the findings of the investigations of mistreatment and violations of civil rights and sometimes deviate from that topic. Outside of a random shooting here and there there is a difference in the treatment my dude so I hear you on the point of it’s your right there not to notify a Leo of a weapon but outside of that case think on a larger scale why some would notify an officer that there is one in there.


Anyway man I don’t know what else to say about it. Outside the case by case bases it’s a deep topic imo for various reasons though.

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post #64 of 142 Old December 8th, 2018, 10:24 PM
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post #65 of 142 Old December 9th, 2018, 12:48 AM
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Here's my attitude for whether or not I will notify an officer.

No, I don't "have" to, but depending on the situation I would.

For example...

A few years ago I was pulled over in my company van (labeled as such) because I was going 6mph over posted limit (on a downhill, so it was gaining a little speed before I hit the brakes) AND having a headlight out. Had I only had one of the two, he said he wouldn't have pulled me over, then he apologized for pulling me over in a company car, had he known it was he wouldn't have done so. (that confused me, but anyway)

So, I had seen him turn around, looked at the speedo and saw I was faster than I should have been, and I pulled my wallet out of my pocket and put it in my lap while he was turning around. He got on my tail, lit up the lights, so I pulled over. I was carrying, but I had already pulled my wallet, so I wasn't worried about reaching for anything.

He asked for license and registration, I gave him my license and asked permission to reach in the glovebox for the registration. Handed it over, all was good.

Had he asked me for any reason to exit the vehicle, I would have notified him I was a concealed carry permit holder, and currently carrying, how would you like me to proceed Sir? But, I was never asked, so I felt safe in not notifying him. I kept my hands on the wheel, my interior lights on, etc as you should always do when pulled over. I also wasn't fidgeting, reaching, etc.


Now, had I been going much faster (MN is a 10mph state typically. Not worth the ticket unless they can get you for lack of insurance, etc if you're doing less than 10mph over and nothing else), I would have notified him immediately. But I don't drive that fast, especially in a work van. I didn't realize the light was out, and he gave me a warning, turned that into the office, got the light fixed (their responsibility to fix the van/maintain the van).

I do understand that "dressing like a gang banger" can put police on edge. But I find it's much more about how you behave vs how you dress in a pull over that makes the difference. Give no attitude, don't be a dick, be polite, be honest, be reasonable, and don't reach for shit without notifying/asking first. Follow instructions and you don't have issues. Give the officer a hard time, reach, fidget, act guilty of more than a minor traffic violation, you're going to have issues. Yes, police make people nervous, I get it. But put on the big smile, ask what's going on, and most of the time you'll be fine.

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post #66 of 142 Old December 9th, 2018, 02:22 AM
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We were all raised to be respectful to law enforcement and how to deal with them in a walking situation or pull over at a very young age I vividly remember that. Personally I know in my family as far as COs and Leo’s there are more in the extended family that I can count on one hand and only 1 Fed that went from military to Leo to where he is now so just bc I may point out some of those problems and had experiences with various bad apples all the way back to a young teen and even MPs I don’t hate them at all. Quite a few of us exchange stories and talk about the job/life.

My last pull over I don’t care to go into details anymore it didn’t result in a ticket but his initial approach with me scared the shit out of my three daughters that were in the truck with me. The hand on the gun and his voice as soon as he jumped in front on me head on and flashed me I rolled all the windows down improper lane change the ranking officer was the most amped up idk if he was trying to prove something or what. Didn’t respond in a negative way to his energy after a bit he brought it down. I was in a way expecting that from past experiences but no matter my explanations or family members explaining I doubt my girls will ever forget how they felt.

Two of my daughters have been in the car with my wife and been pulled over for hauling ass through a residential area and no proof of insurance. Total different experience and yeah I know it was a different cop but hell he let me send her a pic of the insurance card she called me up on that pull over. Similar situation in Texas when she got pulled over for speeding in her gto. Cop talking to her about the car she was saying he was synod courteous and just told her to slow it down. Similar situation when we were driving two separate vehicles from Ga to Tx she was pulled over for speeding dude courteous as shit told her to slow it down.

I only rambled off one of my situations but the numerous situations date back to before I was even old enough to drive and I just don’t care to go into the details anymore when it comes to MY numerous personal experiences bc I guess like I said before no matter how much you try to explain it for some with Some and seemingly quite a few of those officers out there with some peoples initial interaction with them it’s flat out negative and tense you don’t have to be behaving badly or have a bad attitude. My ex wife learned that hard lesson the first time she visited the south in her life and was pulled over. Both of us being courteous the entire time got both of us cursed out. That was and hour after she held he door open for an older white woman and that woman stopped just looked at her the way I was use to getting looked at by some growing up and used the opposite door. Coming from the west coast that trip had her in tears.

So I hear your points man but I guess when it boils down to it it’s just some ppl are just a bit different in those situations for more than a few reasons. I guess no amount of explaining it will actually explain it when it boils down to it. You don’t have to give some of those guys and gals attitude to to be treated like crap man it doesn’t matter how respectful you are.

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post #67 of 142 Old December 9th, 2018, 11:04 PM
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What does any of that BS have to do with any of the questions I asked? Again, you make more assumptions, and now itís about how I want police perceived. Something else you assume and make up, all while spewing irrelevant propaganda to distract from the only FACT here, and thatís that you donít know. You are basing your opinion on assumption, which is my whole point. Again, you know nothing of the situation. This is the whole problem......you are the problem
Really? Please point out the "fact" that you laid out so well to prove your point. I won't hold my breath because you have none so when you decide to point the finger look in a mirror first.

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post #68 of 142 Old December 10th, 2018, 07:49 AM
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Really? Please point out the "fact" that you laid out so well to prove your point. I won't hold my breath because you have none so when you decide to point the finger look in a mirror first.

John
Really? So you know what happened at the scene? You what what details led to the shooting? You know race was a factor? You donít know anything about what happened, expect a white guy shot a black guy, and thats a fact, right? You are making assumptions on the whole situation, because you donít know any details of what happens, and thatís a fact. Youíre the one that needs the point the finger in the mirror and say ďi donít know,Ē because thatís the only fact here. None of us know, but youíre unable to admit that. You canít point that finger in the mirror and say ďI donít know what happened, and I could be wrong.Ē


Maybe race was a factor, or maybe it wasnít. I donít know, but I do know just coming out and saying that because a white guy shot a innocent black man, that race was a factor, without knowing any details of the situation is flat out the wrong way to handle it, and does no good for anyone.


Now would you like to provide me with facts on the situation that led to the shooting? What the officer saw? What the exchanges were with anyone there? Is it really that hard to say that you donít know?

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In is unfortunate but I think race was a factor. In our society I don't think it is possible for it to not be a factor. Like was previously mentioned. Black neighborhoods are perceived as being more dangerous than white neighborhoods. I think this is a misconception. I think inner cities are more dangerous than suburban communities. It doesn't matter what race is living there.....


I don't have any answers. The police officer made a split second decision. I think racism was involved but not the overt racism of hating all blacks. It was a more subtle racism of just knowing incidents in black communities are more dangerous than incidents in white communities. There will be an investigation and no one will actually know what happened until it is finished.
I know us humans form ideas in these various situations based off of social patterns in given situations and sometimes mainly what is presented at the time. Most of the time when one is putting there theory, or opinions of what happened out there there is a good chance they were not there at Every situation that happened on the ground that imo would be an unrealistic expectation looking at the size of these cities, the nation, the world etc.. so we discuss what is presented.

I wonder(I really donít wonder) what made you form this opinion on this particular situation. I know you were not on the scene or had some majic eye in the sky itís just an opinion formed like any normal person would do which is an reasonable expectation.

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post #70 of 142 Old December 10th, 2018, 06:53 PM
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News reports, crime statistics, etc. all say that black inner city communities are more dangerous than other communities. The difference isn't huge but it exists. That is true in Indianapolis, Chicago, and elsewhere. Even Jesse Jackson spoke about hearing footprints behind him and feeling a sigh of relief when he turned and it was a white man. This stuff has been reported for so long that it has to have an effect on just about everyone if in no other place than our subconscious minds. We might deny it. We might not even know it exists. But extreme circumstances under the right conditions could trigger that fear.

I'm not a psychologist. That comes from my limited knowledge from taking a couple of psychology classes in college. It could be completely wrong but given our society I don't know how it is not possible.

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post #71 of 142 Old December 10th, 2018, 08:31 PM
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News reports, crime statistics, etc. all say that black inner city communities are more dangerous than other communities. The difference isn't huge but it exists. That is true in Indianapolis, Chicago, and elsewhere. Even Jesse Jackson spoke about hearing footprints behind him and feeling a sigh of relief when he turned and it was a white man. This stuff has been reported for so long that it has to have an effect on just about everyone if in no other place than our subconscious minds. We might deny it. We might not even know it exists. But extreme circumstances under the right conditions could trigger that fear.

I'm not a psychologist. That comes from my limited knowledge from taking a couple of psychology classes in college. It could be completely wrong but given our society I don't know how it is not possible.

Well being a black male myself and living among African Americans the majority of my life with various income levels, and about 98% of my family being black I suppose I don’t have this fear of or natural suspicion of blacks in various circumstances. I guess that goes to the theory and mindset of the big bad blacks and all of those guys can be potential criminals which causes Some to lock their doors when you pass, give you extra room when passing, follow you in stores vs helping you etc... So under regular circumstances like already stated there is a different mindset and weird treatment so I can imagine in “extreme circumstances “.

I guess with all of that considered and from what someone else said in here if you’re not dressed your best at all times out there and happen to be in workout clothes or clothing that ones find to be gang related or threatening that will make it about 10x worse. I guess it’s no secret how some view you in society out there just for being it’s just crazy to see when it’s stated out sometimes and ppl be like nah that would have absolutely nothing to do with it. When you are sometimes deemed and viewed as a threat just for being who and what you are one can’t ignore and look past or over that fact in an discussion. To be honest that’s about all I have to say on the matter it’s good to see the hard true honesty on certain things out there.
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post #72 of 142 Old December 12th, 2018, 03:10 PM
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I guess with all of that considered and from what someone else said in here if youíre not dressed your best at all times out there and happen to be in workout clothes or clothing that ones find to be gang related or threatening that will make it about 10x worse.
Yes. It makes a difference. The only thing strangers have to go by is your appearance. You cannot believe how hard it was for me to convince my son of that. As a teenager he wanted to wear baggy pants down low so that his underwear showed. I hated it and I am really glad that he outgrew it.

Appearances mean a lot. If someone is in a bad neighborhood they might be a little apprehensive about someone who looked like a gangster but not at all if that exactly same person looked like a cop. And it it can be situational. On a college campus during the day the way someone is dressed might not give others a single thought but late at night in a bad neighborhood it might.

We are, of course, talking about the opinion of strangers. Once people get to know one another appearance is less of an issue.

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post #73 of 142 Old December 12th, 2018, 04:29 PM
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I hear what you’re saying Eagle. Based off various experiences from childhood to current adulthood I just don’t care to touch on it anymore right now even though it’s one of those topics/realities on a deeper level I can’t really avoid daily when some thought is put into it.

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post #74 of 142 Old December 22nd, 2018, 02:25 PM
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Really? So you know what happened at the scene? You what what details led to the shooting? You know race was a factor? You don’t know anything about what happened, expect a white guy shot a black guy, and thats a fact, right? You are making assumptions on the whole situation, because you don’t know any details of what happens, and that’s a fact. You’re the one that needs the point the finger in the mirror and say “i don’t know,” because that’s the only fact here. None of us know, but you’re unable to admit that. You can’t point that finger in the mirror and say “I don’t know what happened, and I could be wrong.”


Maybe race was a factor, or maybe it wasn’t. I don’t know, but I do know just coming out and saying that because a white guy shot a innocent black man, that race was a factor, without knowing any details of the situation is flat out the wrong way to handle it, and does no good for anyone.


Now would you like to provide me with facts on the situation that led to the shooting? What the officer saw? What the exchanges were with anyone there? Is it really that hard to say that you don’t know?
You accuse me of not having the facts but you have zero facts yourself yet you are claiming there was nothing wrong that happened and everyone should just move along because police are all good so they could NEVER do anything wrong and if you question their integrity YOU are the wrong one.

I base my findings on what I have personally researched. In other words I get my info from the police themselves not some PR guy that is doing damage control.

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post #75 of 142 Old December 29th, 2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagle2000GT View Post
News reports, crime statistics, etc. all say that black inner city communities are more dangerous than other communities. The difference isn't huge but it exists.

This stuff has been reported for so long that it has to have an effect on just about everyone if in no other place than our subconscious minds. We might deny it. We might not even know it exists. But extreme circumstances under the right conditions could trigger that fear.

I'm not a psychologist. That comes from my limited knowledge from taking a couple of psychology classes in college. It could be completely wrong but given our society I don't know how it is not possible.
All things considered mainly that fear out there from some I guess thatís why some opt to call the police on certain ppl in various situations like sitting in restaurants, lobbyís, walking through neighborhoods etc.. bc of that natural fear youíre/weíre deemed as a threat to society. As we all know that has led to a few televised situations after the fact and obviously non televised situations. Itís just sad to actually hear the reality of it I guess.



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post #76 of 142 Old December 29th, 2018, 01:04 PM
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It’s just sad to actually hear the reality of it I guess.
I agree completely. But its situational. Take the same person dressed the same way and put him on a college campus and no one thinks anything of it. Just another college kid.

By the way, decades ago we discussed how this works in one of my college psychology classes. Psychology wasn't my strong suit so I don't remember very much about it only that it is something that everyone's brain does to be aware of dangerous situations. Its an evolutionary thing that they think was developed back when lions were a threat. Without it we would go into sensory overload. Of course, that is true only if I remember anything correctly.

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post #77 of 142 Old February 1st, 2019, 03:04 PM
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You accuse me of not having the facts but you have zero facts yourself yet you are claiming there was nothing wrong that happened and everyone should just move along because police are all good so they could NEVER do anything wrong and if you question their integrity YOU are the wrong one.

I base my findings on what I have personally researched. In other words I get my info from the police themselves not some PR guy that is doing damage control.

John
More of exactly what I'm talking about. More very poor assumptions and flat out making crap up. PROOF that you have no intentions of listening to what people say to you because you're so self absorbed.

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What’s fucked up is all the assumptions you have to come to in order to just declare this as fact. The assumption, by so many, that his race absolutely played a fact in him getting shot is absurd. Again, can you tell me more about the situation? Do you know anything that was happening when the innocent man was shot? Do you know what the original report was to the police? Do you know how many people the officer that shot the innocent man saw, who were holding guns before he shot?


It’s people like you who make your assumptions, regardless of your complete ignorance of anything that actually happened, as fact that are the problem. You don’t just get to say that race is factor, just because a white person shoots a black person. What you never seem to ever see, is the hypocrisy in your posts. You are turning it into a race issue, while knowing nothing other than a white man shot a black man, and accusing me of wanting the simple answer. How convienent of you to go back to the first question I posed, and ignore the questions where I was actually making my point. I am not saying race wasn’t a factor because I don’t know. You on the other hand are saying it as fact, when just like me, you don’t know. The problem is people like you who can’t say the words “I don’t know,” so you just feel that your assumptions are truth. That’s the problem.
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I’m not missing any point. He can’t answer a direct question, and I feel no need to proceed until he can answer one simple question. It’s real easy. Would he have been shot had he not been holding a gun?


What’s pathetic is the terrible assumptions you guys are making, knowing basically zero facts, other than a innocent black man got shot, and now it’s because the cop is racist.

So since you’ve made such an informed decisions on this, tell me how many of these “numerous white people with with their concealed carry weapons drawn” the particular cop involved in this shooting saw, before he made the decision to shoot the black guy? Hell, how many were there? Were they fleeing the scene?

Tell me exactly what the guy that got shot was doing with his gun? Who and/or where was it pointed at? Was he running? Was he barracaded behind something? What exactly was he doing?


And your last sentence is astounding. I’m not saying that at all, and it’s just like you to make these kind of assumptions based on things you make up in your head. You’re no different than the media. See, the obvious answer to my question is no, but that doesn’t seem to matter either. And since that’s the obvious answer, you make a terrible assumption that black people shouldn’t carry guns was my point, just like you make terrible assumptions on a situation that you know absolutely nothing about what happened. My point is the officer saw a guy with a gun, and made a poor decision to shoot him before properly assessing the scene. Does that mean it was because he was black, or because he was holding a gun? Maybe in the next few days it comes out that the cop is a raging racist that hates black people. Maybe the body cam footage shows the victim was the first person the cop saw holding a gun, and made a bad choice. If it’s the second scenerio, is it still racist? If the cop were black and the victim white, would it still be racist? Now GTFO wth your placing of words about concealed carry should only apply to white people.

Let me play your assumption game. So what you’re basically saying is that the cop that shot this guy, looked around at all the people with their concealed carry weapons drawn, looked at each individual person, and said oh hey, there’s a black guy, and shot him. You should get a job at any major media outlet. You’d do a great job there.
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Now you’re missing the point. My initial comment was in regards to why is had to be labeled racial, right off the bat? And to sit here and say that race was a factor is a dangerous assumption that you, the media, and half the country buy into without knowing any details at all. That is the issue I take with all of this. It’s labeled that way 30 seconds after it happens. As I alluded to earlier, there’s a list of questions that nobody here can answer regarding the situation, yet you guys are sold race was a factor. The labeling of an relatively unknown situation is ridiculous. You can not make an informed opinion with the information you know. All you can do is make an uninformed assumption, and the problem is that the media does the same. It’s bullshit.


And I don’t disagree with BLM. Why would I? But to talk about it the way you do here is sure not what I see all over the country. That may have been the initial idea, but that’s not how it’s being carried out. Peaceful demonstrations may happen, but I’ve witnessed plenty of violent ones myself. You make it sound like cops are shooting up black people like target practice with no consequences. Has it happened. Yes, we’ve all seen it. Does it just happen to black people? Nope.



Back to the point. The labeling of this situation as being racist right off the bat is ridiculous. How about titling it “innocent man shot by police,” and then modify it as actual details surface, and use facts instead of poor assumptions? You absolutely can not say race was a factor because you know nothing of the situation. Maybe it was a factor? But I don’t know, and neither do you, and labeling every shooting of a black by a white does nothing to help the BLM movement.

So now, re read your post I quoted at the top. I don't have the facts, and that's exactly what I'm saying. How is it so hard for you to get that through you're thick, self absorbed head? Every post I've said is saying it shouldn't be labeled without the facts. I haven't labeled it as anything. YOU guys labeled it. Exactly my point.

I claimed nothing wrong happened and everyone should move along? More made up BULLSHIT. Quote where I said that. You don't get to make up stuff that I didn't say and make an argument based off of it. I quoted for you the actual things I said. Now you show me where I said there was no wrong doing and everyone should move along. What I've said is that you can't cry race, when you don't know the facts. Now, either you can read it in the quotes I've provided, or I can say it again. Maybe race was a factor, and maybe it wasn't. We don't know.......now quit making up bullshit to support your own assumptions. Absolutely ridiculous...... literally saying I don't know if it was racially influenced isn't wrong. How can it be? What's wrong is labeling it no facts, and that's you. Not me. Now if I would have actually said the made up things you claim I said, then you'd be correct and I'd be wrong. Fortunately, this is reality with words, and not your made up world where you get to claim things were said that actually weren't.


And I have plenty of LEO friends as well, so unless you know the cops that were there, you still know nothing. One of the guys I ride dirt bikes with has been a LEO for 35 years.....so what? It makes no difference.

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post #78 of 142 Old February 7th, 2019, 03:19 AM
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Your attitude and your continued defenses of ANY police shooting inform your intentions. You can continue to believe that all police are good people and would NEVER do anything wrong. I'll live in the real world. Do we know all the facts? Maybe not but there sure is a lot of circumstantial evidence that is pointing in that direction.

I get it. You're defending your own. Like I said.....Brotherhood...…

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post #79 of 142 Old February 7th, 2019, 10:53 AM
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Your attitude and your continued defenses of ANY police shooting inform your intentions. You can continue to believe that all police are good people and would NEVER do anything wrong. I'll live in the real world. Do we know all the facts? Maybe not but there sure is a lot of circumstantial evidence that is pointing in that direction.

I get it. You're defending your own. Like I said.....Brotherhood...Ö

John
The real world huh? Your whole response is based off of another lie. So, show where I defended this police shooting. Quote it and show me where I defended it, and don't take a sentence or two out of its context. You live in a world that you make up in your head. You continually base arguments off of things that aren't true. You use lies like "defense of ANY police shooting" and then base opinions on lies you make up. That's your real world? I have to go back and quote the actual things I said just to bring you back to the real world.

The fact that you continue to make things up totally discredits any argument you can make. Just like this one about me defending any police shooting. It just goes to show that you will go to any length to try and smear someone else, with no facts, in order to support your agenda. You use a completely false statement that you can not back up (but I can quote posts that show exactly the opposite), and end with some stupid statement like "defending your own." Every time you make these posts, it shows your true colors. You will create flat out lies about any situation, and here in the real world, we call that a lack of character. I haven't defended, nor condemned, the actions of this officer from the aspect of it being racial. I did, however, say it was a terrible shooting, but you must actually beilieve your own lies. I'm holding off on the racial aspect, because we don't have facts. You're giving the guy the death sentence, solely based on the shooting being racial, without knowing a single fact.

So let me ask you this. You're forced to shoot an intruder in your house that happens to be black. Do you want me, the one who waits to hear the facts to be on the jury, or you, the one who made up his mind when it was white on black to be on the jury?


This time, let's try to use words I've actually said, rather than make something up. I'd like to say you can do it, but I know that's not true.


So to recap, the shooting was definitely a bad shoot, and the officer should go to prison. This whole debate has been on the media (and you conclusion jumpers), immediately saying it was racial without knowing any facts on what went down. That's it. Nothing less, nothing more. Just the immediate labeling of it being racial.


Your statements prove that you hate police, all LEO are racist, and all shooting of blacks people are racist.

---------- Post added at 08:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 AM ----------

So really, just a quick summary of this, just so you don't post another 3 paragraphs, defending something that you made up.


White officer wrongly shoots an innocent black man. The media, and others, immediately label it racial.



We all agree it was a bad shoot, the officer was in the wrong, and should go to prison. (Regardless of the last fabricated post you made)


Media immediately labels it as being racial.


I make a comment like "what does being black have to do with it? Why can't it just be officer shoots in innocent man?"



A few of you keep telling me why it's racial



I say several times, as quoted above, that maybe it was racial, or maybe it wasn't. We don't know because we weren't there and don't have the facts.



FACT: we don't know because we don't have the facts, so I reserve my judgment, but you stick to it being racially motivated. You based your opinion off of not knowing, and I haven't even formed an opinion on this aspect of the shooting. I haven't formed an opinion because I don't know. So, you keep telling me I'm wrong because I haven't formed an opinion, and I take issue to people immediately making an assumption that it was racially motivated without knowing facts.

So what you're telling me, is that I'm wrong to wait for facts, and should just immiedestly assume it was racially motivated, like the media (and you) want me to.


And I'm in the wrong here?

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post #80 of 142 Old February 7th, 2019, 03:03 PM
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If it quacks like a duck.....

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