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post #1 of 31 Old September 12th, 2019, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Unbelievable

I realize that Democrats are telling everyone that they are not socialists. That is untrue. Take Elizabeth Warren's planned Accountable Capitalism Act. According to reports those who own stock will only get to keep a portion of the profits. Her government intends to mandate that profits also go to employees (they already do in contributions to 401k and other retirement plans), to social programs (who decides?), etc. This is complete bull.

I worked for a corporation after leaving the Air Force. I contributed 10% of my wages to a 401K plan. The company matched half of that. That money was invested in mutual funds. Corporate profits are what pays dividend and caused the stock price to grow.

My wife and I are now retired. When I retired I transferred my company 401k into a traditional IRA. 15% of our retirement income comes from that IRA. That is with me still living. My wife is younger and she is female. The odds are she will out live me 20 years. When I die my military retirement stops and my social security stops. I bought an insurance annuity (SBI) that will pay my wife about half of what I get. That means around 60-65% of her income after I'm gone will have to come from our IRA. That income depends upon corporate profits.

If Elizabeth Warren gets her way my wife will be living alone nearly destitute. Democrats are always wanting to tax the imaginary rich. Company financed pension plans are mostly a thing of the past. Nowadays pensions are 401Ks, 403Bs, Tradition IRAs, Roth IRAs, etc. Most of which are employee contributions and all are invested in the stock market usually through mutual funds. She is in effect taking food out of the mouths of the elderly who depend upon their pension checks so she can fund social programs of the her choosing.

And some wonder why I prefer Trump over a Democrat. At least he doesn't intend to take food out of my widows mouth!


P.S. Only 14% of the fortune 500 companies offer pension plans. Its less for smaller companies. Only governments are offering them anymore and they are grossly underfunded (meaning the government is going to struggle to meet its promise). 85-90% of employee pensions are invested in the stock market. It would really be nice if a Democrat actually knew something before proposing nonsense.
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post #2 of 31 Old September 13th, 2019, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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There are many things unbelievable. I just heard on television that Biden said we need to send social workers into peoples homes to teach them how to properly raise their children. Raise how? To be good little socialists.

He also pointed out that Medicare for All will cost a family making $60,000 per year $5,000 in a payroll deduction... a tax deducted from payroll checks just like federal income taxes, state income taxes and social security taxes.

Medicare is already going broke. Medicare for All is expected to cost $32 trillion. That's a number so large that most people cannot comprehend it. Our government would have to take all the money from 32,000 billionaires to pay for it. A billion is still a very big number so it would have to take all the money from 32,000,000 millionaires. Since its not going to take it all they will have to find 60 million to 70 million millionaires to tax. That's earnings per year not accumulated savings.

There are only around 400,000 (2007) people who make a million dollars per year. In 2009 it was down to around 287,000 people. To get into the top 1% all it takes is an earnings of $380,000. That is a lot of money but it is a far cry from a million dollars.

There simply aren't enough rich to pay the bill. That is why Biden said a person making $60,000 per year will pay $5,000. At least he's being honest about it.

This is also why I say Democrats are planing to tax the imaginary rich. We don't have enough rich people to fund their plans.

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post #3 of 31 Old September 13th, 2019, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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The more I read the more I shake my head in bewilderment. How can anyone deny that Democrats want to buy your vote (with other people's money). Andrew Yang says he will use campaign funds to give 10 families $1,000 per month for 1 year. That is really nice of him. To be honest I've read he's already doing this for 3 families. He wants the government to give $1,000 per month to all families. That's $12,000 per year.

There are 83 million families in the United States. Total price would be $996 trillion. A trillion here. A trillion there. Someday it will add up to be real money. Yang says he will pay for it with a value added tax. Who pays the value added tax? The consumer. A value added tax will increase the price of just about everything we buy.

The Gross Domestic Product of the United States is around $19.39 trillion (2017). How in the hell are you going to have a value added tax of $996 trillion on a $19.39 trillion economy? Its simple--- you can't.

All that Democrats offer are empty promises. There isn't any way we can pay for all of this.

P.S. I have also noticed that there were no American flags to be seen.

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post #4 of 31 Old September 13th, 2019, 01:30 PM
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the whole stage is basically an American flag....


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post #5 of 31 Old September 13th, 2019, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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I can see how you might think that. It has various colored stars on blue and red backgrounds. It looks good. But, it really isn't an American Flag. Here is another picture of the stage.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019...y=90&auto=webp

It shows only a blue background. NBC must have added that patriotic background for advertising. My wife scanned through the entire debate as shown on ABC. It was the only broadcast we received. It showed nothing but the blue background.

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post #6 of 31 Old September 16th, 2019, 10:44 AM
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UAW is on strike against GM, health care is one of the sticking points, & they pay currently 4 % toward their plan.
I don't see this or any union worker voting for the Dims in 2020 !!
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post #7 of 31 Old September 16th, 2019, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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I pay 7.5% of my Social Security for Medicare part B. It pays 80% of the approved charge. Part B is still on sound financial footing. For hospital care, Medicare is is spending more than it takes in. For a recent hospital visit it paid 55% of its approved costs. It is able to pay that much because of the trust fund which goes broke in 2026.

Now Democrats want Medicare for All. (I'm curious do people think Medicare pays 100%? Its not free health care.) To do that they will eliminate private insurance. I suspect the payroll deduction will go up. On top of that they seem to want open borders which will bankrupt the system as illegals flood into our hospitals.

I agree, it is unbelievable that any union worker would vote for them.

Since the system will be unsustainable, they will have to implement price controls. Doctors and nurses will leave and new ones will not come in. That will result in long lines and rationing of services. Just as it has in every other country that has tried socialized medicine. Unfortunately, some will believe the lies.

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post #8 of 31 Old September 16th, 2019, 01:40 PM
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They were interviewing some of those GM union workers now. Seems as if the argument from some is how profits have soared , health care and job security. Sounds like some of them are saying that GM is hauling in a lot of cash but it’s not trickling down to the employees. One said that GM is making more money than ever so they are asking for a fair shake for the American worker.

So it boils down to from what I was hearing on the ground is they have a problem with the corporation raking in huge profits and it all going to and staying at the top. So there seems to be a huge argument of the “trickle down economics “ actually being in play over there.

From what I was hearing about that in particular and never really heard about Repubes being a huge hugging friend to the unions I wouldn’t find it surprising or outrageous for quite a few of them to vote Dem. You never know though in today’s bizarro world.

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post #9 of 31 Old September 16th, 2019, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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Unions have long been associated with the Democrat party. It wouldn't surprise me either even though I think they might be voting against their own self interest this time.

Trickle down economics. Will Rogers started that as a joke. The world has changed considerably since 1932, the heart of the Great Depression. Our government has implemented lots of social programs since then and many worker benefits have become standard. The term was often used by opponents to describe Ronald Reagan's supply side economic theory. In a nut shell, cheaper products create demand. Increased demand creates jobs and a greater demand for workers raises wages and benefits.

Those that follow demand side economic theory want the government to stimulate the economy by giving more money to individuals (or letting them keep more money). Having more money, they buy more. Increased demand creates jobs, higher wages and better benefits.

Because of international trade demand side doesn't work as well as it should. People buy goods made overseas. That doesn't help the American worker at all. Maybe that is why many now follow the supply side theory. Its suppose to help keep jobs here.

I don't know which theory is correct. Most likely reality falls somewhere in between. Right now our economy is booming. Our employment rate is the highest, and our unemployment rate the lowest in decades. We currently have a shortage of workers so it is a perfect time to strike because a company cannot quickly find replacements (assuming replacement would cross the picket line).

Trickle down indicates that benefits are slowing moving down to the workers. Companies do have other priorities and paying down loans that were borrowed to get through hard times is one of them. Paying off a loan is not an expense in accounting. If the loan is big enough the company can show a large profit but not have any free cash for other things. That could be one of the reasons benefits are slow to reach employees. It really doesn't matter. A strike changes priorities. Wages and benefits will go up sooner not later. If nothing is going out the door loans cannot be repaid and compromises must be reached.

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post #10 of 31 Old September 16th, 2019, 06:24 PM
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Unions have long been associated with the Democrat party. It wouldn't surprise me either even though I think they might be voting against their own self interest this time.
All things considered like the middle class , lower class and working poor etc... or what seemingly is a major portion of the people out there who are actually slightly or heavily dependent on social programs.

It seems that when it comes to this political thing no matters one personal and social situation some do seem to vote against their own interests. Just one of those things I guess.

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post #11 of 31 Old September 17th, 2019, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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Has anyone been following the New York Times fiasco. They accused Supreme Court Justice Kavanaugh of some things done in college. Unfortunately, the victim doesn't remember it ever happening so they had to tone down the story. I would have said it soiled their reputation but that was done a long time ago.

An editor tried to explain what happened, "The authors corroborated his story with two government officials, who said they found it credible. Based on that corroboration, we felt mentioning the claim as one part of a broader essay was warranted."

Two government officials found it credible? That's called corroboration? No witnesses? Hell, the victim doesn't even remember it happening. How can it be credible?

This was nothing but a smear job. But it gave some Democrats in congress an excuse to call for his impeachment. Liberals are unhappy that we have a conservative leaning court with the majority of the justices interpreting the Constitution according to its original meaning. They want to change that any way they can.

Another paper refused to print the article. Even the NYT news side refused to print it because lacked facts. It was printed on the opinion side.

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post #12 of 31 Old September 17th, 2019, 09:46 AM
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Sounds like politics as usual. Pretty sure there still has to be some sour feelings on how the Republicans blocked Obama’s last pick he tried to put on there. So that and this with the possible skeletons in the closet and everything thing around it seems to be politics as usual when concerning the courts.

One would think and hope that the deck isn’t stacked either way when it comes to social and political ideology but obviously that’s not how the game is played and some don’t care too much to see a balance there in the courts just somewhat likeminded individuals that will possibly always vote the way they would and think like them. So it just seem like the good old politics as usual!

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post #13 of 31 Old September 17th, 2019, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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In my first post I knew that Elizabeth Warren's "Accountable Capitalism" was going to hit retirees hard but I didn't realize just how hard. According to this Wall Street Journal report "Households of ages 65 to 74 have an average of $1,066,000 in net worth, while those between ages 35 and 44 have less than a third as much on average, at $288,700. A socialist might see injustice in that inequality. But seniors know this wealth gap is the difference between the start and the finish of a career of work and thrift, making the last mortgage and retirement payments rather than the first. Seventy-two percent of the value of all domestically held stocks is owned by pension plans, 401(k)s and individual retirement accounts, or held by life insurance companies to fund annuities and death benefits. This wealth accumulated over a lifetime and benefits all Americans."

Because we have saved though out our lifetime Warren wants to take it away. And if you have a pension plan she wants to take it from you as well.


"Her “Accountable Capitalism Act” would wipe out the single greatest legal protection retirees currently enjoy—the requirement that corporate executives and fund managers act as fiduciaries on investors’ behalf. To prevent union bosses, money managers or politicians from raiding pension funds, the 1974 Employee Retirement Income Security Act requires that a fiduciary shall manage a plan “solely in the interest of the participants and beneficiaries . . . for the exclusive purpose of providing benefits to participants and their beneficiaries.” The Securities and Exchange Commission imposes similar requirements on investment advisers, and state laws impose fiduciary responsibility on state-chartered corporations."

Under Warren's plan all those protections would be gone. Retirees and pension plan managers will all attempt to sell the stocks they own and move to safer investments. The market will crash and they will be lucky to get a dime back on a dollar invested. I cannot believe people think this is a viable plan. This WSJ report just reinforced what I already thought would happen. It will just happen on a much larger scale than I could have imagined.

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post #14 of 31 Old September 18th, 2019, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Liberal completely wrong climate predictions fall into this category. In 1969/1970 there were dire predictions of a new ice age in only 50 years. (That would be 2019/2020.) A biologist, Paul Ehrlich, warned of a disastrous famine and wanted "sterilizing agents into staple foods and drinking water." He wanted to sterilize us so we couldn't have children!

Predictions of a new ice age continued through the 70s Time magazine, "Telltale signs are everywhere — from the unexpected persistence and thickness of pack ice in the waters around Iceland to the southward migration of a warmth-loving creature like the armadillo from the Midwest," In 1974 the Guardian reported, "Space satellites show new Ice Age coming fast." In 1978 an international team of scientists were quoted in the NYT that the world would experience a never-ending "cooling trend in the Northern Hemisphere."

I can still remember those predictions. They were taught in university ecology classes around the country. But things changed with Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth." Warming was now the danger not cooling. Al Gore predicted in 2000 that the arctic ice would be gone in seven years and New York City would be underwater. At the end of his seven year period arctic ice had expanded (there was more not less) but recently it has been melting at a quicker pace.

Of course its melting faster than the 70s when we were all suppose to freeze to death. There is nothing like an urgent pending disaster to get people to vote against their self-interest, to get people to give up their freedoms for safety.

AOC is doing it again with her "Green New Deal" which is more about expanding social programs and government control than the environment.

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post #15 of 31 Old September 20th, 2019, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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Democrats have long controlled California. In 2010 they have created a jungle primary system where only Democrats show up on the ballot for the general election. Now they are passing laws which are intended to just keep Republican voters home. The law states that individuals must make public their tax returns to be on the ballot.

“We’re not talking about keeping President Trump off the ballot in the general election,” Jessica Patterson, the California Republican Party chairwoman, told Fox News. “But what this will do is make sure that Republican voters stay home for the primaries and give Democrats a big opportunity when it comes to the general election.”

"Paul Mitchell, a political consultant and vice president of Political Data Inc., told Politico that 2020 looks like an “asymmetric election” where Democrats will be much more driven to head to the polls than Republicans.

“This does have enough potential impact that it could impact primaries by boxing out a Republican here and there,” Mitchell said, especially if Republicans “boycott” the primary in protest over the new law. “

All socialist countries have only one party. Through laws being passed California is quickly becoming a one party state.

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post #16 of 31 Old September 20th, 2019, 12:38 PM
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Yeah there have been countless voter suppression type tactics that have been pointed out on here especially in the last round of mid terms and Governors elections. It was pointed out quite a bit in the southern states by them closing polls in certain places, limited #of voting machines in certain areas that created longer lines in certain areas while other/extra machines were warehoused etc...


So the issue in various ways of voters being kept or deterred from coming out to vote has been a hot topic for quite some time. Some even wrote the valid issue off as b.s. or ppl just making noise maybe bc of a mindset of like hey that affects Them and Theirs not Me and Mine. I suppose if one is directly or indirectly affected by it then there is now an acknowledgment of a problem that has been kinda talked about for awhile with people pointing out the numerous tactics of suppression and trying to turn certain voters off from even coming out.
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post #17 of 31 Old September 22nd, 2019, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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My opinion is that AOC is absolute proof that the ignorant can become a politician. She graduated from Boston University. It really makes me wonder what they teach there. Here is her latest reported blunder and she has had many.

"In tweeting on behalf of D.C. statehood, Ocasio-Cortez wrote: “DC was the 1st territory in the United States to free the enslaved. It’s where Black Americans fled the tyranny of slavery & towards greater freedom, to DC. Yet today it’s where 2nd class citizenship reigns, and the right to vote is denied.”

"The National Archives – which employs real historians as opposed to politicians who just make stuff up – says that: “Slavery remained legal in the District until April 16, 1862, when President Abraham Lincoln signed into law an act abolishing slavery in the District.” This took place when the Civil War (perhaps you’ve heard of it, Congresswoman?) was well underway.'

"In fact, Vermont abolished slavery in 1777. By 1804 every Northern state had passed laws to abolish slavery. It took a few years for abolition to phase in in some states.'

"When confronted with these historical facts, Ocasio-Cortez tried to explain away her obviously false tweet, writing on Twitter: “The right is pushing back on this. To clarify in 280 chars, DC was the first area where enslaved people were freed by the US government.”

I tend to believe her. But her original statement is so blatantly wrong it needed to be corrected. I have no idea if her clarification is correct. It most likely is since the only government in Washington D.C. is the federal government.

Here is a clarification to the article: It was the Vermont Republic that banned slavery in 1777. Vermont did not become the 14th state until 1791. It entered the Union as a free state. It set the example for others to follow. My home state, Indiana, became the 19th state in 1816. It also entered the Union as a free state.

If a Democrat would ever bother to read The Federalist Papers they would fully understand why Washington D.C. does not have full representation in Congress. Just like they would understand why we are a republic and not a democracy and why we have two houses in Congress, one based on population and one where each state has an equal voice. I have read them. The reasoning behind the compromises in our Constitution are just a valid today as they were 200 years ago.

Note: "The Federalist Papers is a collection of 85 articles and essays written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay under the pseudonym "Publius" to promote the ratification of the United States Constitution. The collection was commonly known as The Federalist until the name The Federalist Papers emerged in the 20th century. The first 77 of these essays were published serially in the Independent Journal, the New York Packet, and The Daily Advertiser between October 1787 and April 1788."

These are newspaper articles written by three of our founding fathers and published in papers at the time to explain and convince the American people to vote for the new Constitution. Our first constitution, The Articles of Confederation, had some problems that needed fixed. Unfortunately our representatives at the Constitutional Conventions couldn't fix everything. If they had tried there would never have been a United States. It took a Civil War to fix our country's worst sin.

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post #18 of 31 Old September 22nd, 2019, 05:04 PM
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My opinion is that.......is absolute proof that the ignorant can become a politician. ..... graduated from ....... It really makes me wonder what they teach there."]Here is ..... latest reported blunder[/URL] and .....has had many.



If a Democrat would ever bother to read The Federalist Papers they would fully understand why Washington D.C. does not have full representation in Congress. Just like they would understand why we......


It took a Civil War to fix our country's worst sin.
Surely that statement about a politician one could put a few names in there including some holding some very important positions. We know she has become a favorite target for some though.

Yeah man those Democrats out here would learn quite a bit if they would just read that. Assuming none across the nation have set eyes on that and are just ALL oblivious individuals. Large brush to paint with that is. I suppose if I havenít read it then it sort of proves the point thatís if myself or one or two individuals represent an entire party of many people across the Nation. I highly doubt that.


Hold on now some will say the Civil war wasnít about the Nations ultimate sin at all it was more so about states rights and all. Now on the states rights to do what I suppose it was various reasons according to some but the ultimate sin fell way on the bottom of the list even if on the list of reasons behind that war according to some.

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post #19 of 31 Old September 22nd, 2019, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, I did over generalize. Its hard not too listening to the most of the Democrat candidates.

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Originally Posted by T-Lee. 30 View Post
Hold on now some will say the Civil war wasnít about the Nations ultimate sin at all it was more so about states rights and all. Now on the states rights to do what I suppose it was various reasons according to some but the ultimate sin fell way on the bottom of the list even if on the list of reasons behind that war according to some.
Yes some say that. Mostly Southerners. They talk about the South's right to secede. They freely joined the Union so why couldn't they freely leave? But I haven't heard that position in a long time. Those who still hold that position need to ask themselves "Why did they want to secede?" It was because they wanted to keep slavery. Being from a northern state I do not subscribe to the idea that is was about states rights. The war was about slavery. The entire attempt to keep balance between the slave and free states was falling apart. It couldn't be maintained.

And it was a nasty war. Roughly 15% of Indiana's population joined the Union Army. 32% of the Hoosiers who joined ended up casualties. 12.6% were killed.

Here is the most likely origin of the nickname Hoosier: "The distinguished Hoosier writer, Meredith Nicholson (The Hoosiers) and many others have inquired into the origin of Hoosier. But by all odds the most serious student of the matter was Jacob Piatt Dunn, Jr., Indiana historian and longtime secretary of the Indiana Historical Society. Dunn noted that "hoosier" was frequently used in many parts of the South in the 19th century for woodsmen or rough hill people. He traced the word back to "hoozer," in the Cumberland dialect of England. This derives from the Anglo-Saxon word "hoo" meaning high or hill. In the Cumberland dialect, the word "hoozer" meant anything unusually large, presumably like a hill. It is not hard to see how this word was attached to a hill dweller or highlander. Immigrants from Cumberland, England, settled in the southern mountains (Cumberland Mountains, Cumberland River, Cumberland Gap, etc.). Their descendents brought the name with them when they settled in the hills of southern Indiana."

---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

The Federalist Papers are a great source of information concerning the original intent of the constitution. The authors explain the need for a second amendment. (The essays were written to support ratification. The Bill of Rights were several years away. They were proposed and ratified to clearly state what were the rights of the people and the individual states.

This is a summary of some of the essays talking about the second amendment published by the UCLA School of Law. When you read it try to remember that a Select Militia (now called the National Guard) was feared almost as much as a standing Army. It was thought that it too could be a tool for oppression. The militia is every abled body male citizen. Alexander Hamilton wrote, "Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped; and in order to see that this be not neglected, it will be necessary to assemble them once or twice in the course of a year." The assemblies never happened.

Madison wrote about state governments possibly repelling federal troops. It was believe that state governments would be more responsive to the needs of the people than a remote federal government. He wrote, " To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it.'

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes.

"But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it. Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession, than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors."

There is also a paragraph somewhere where the militia was to assemble with their rifle and 20 rounds of ammunition. If you want to know the original meaning of the Constitution you need to get a copy of the Federalist Papers.
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post #20 of 31 Old September 22nd, 2019, 10:12 PM
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Yeah being from and in the south you do hear that “states rights “ reason behind that war. I understand some may have not heard that in awhile depending on the location and mindsets but I know not everyone here currently or some time back use to get into those discussions on here but sometime back there were ppl on this forum that repeated those same statements about the reasoning.

---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 PM ----------

Sunday night whiskey drinking so hopefully whatever I just said is easily comprehended and not beyond confusing.
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