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post #21 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 02:11 PM
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Someone do it and let us know if your car runs like shit or doesnt change.
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post #22 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 02:16 PM
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I already have breather filters on both valve covers, been running like this since windstar swapped. I've noticed not a single ounce of detrimental performance.



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post #23 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 02:17 PM
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Pics of it in the build thread?
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post #24 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 02:50 PM
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I already have breather filters on both valve covers, been running like this since windstar swapped. I've noticed not a single ounce of detrimental performance.
Have you had it tuned and checked your a/f ratios? I'd be willing to bet you are running lean.

You guys really need to research pcv systems. An open element breather filter WILL allow unmetered air into the engine. Once you put a breather on, air can and will get through it into the engine. You won't be removing the vapors at a fast enough rate from the valve covers which will lead to unwanted pressure in the engine. But I guess if you want your engine to look "cool" with some breather filters that do more harm than good then go ahead. It's your engine not mine.
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post #25 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 03:01 PM
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Amazing, Research...



In any internal combustion engine, gasses are generated in the crank case due to high heat and friction breaking down the hydrocarbon molecules (oil). In order to vent these gasses, manufactures install PCV valves which allow these gasses to vent from the crank case into the intake tract, thus allowing them to be burnt by the combustion process. This is the cleanest (read most environmentally friendly) way to deal with these gasses. The problem is, these gasses contaminate the air the ICE uses during the combustion process, theoretically resulting in an efficiency/power loss.

If you replace your PCV valve with a breather filter (or run one in conjunction with your PCV valve, which would be required on almost every new vehicle), all you are doing is allowing these crankcase gasses to vent to the atmosphere instead of burning them in the combustion chamber. This is not the most environmentally friendly thing to do, but if you are running a high performance motor and do not want to contaminate your incoming air, then using a breather filter is your best option. In reality, a stock (or bolt on only) car will not benefit from a breather filter.
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post #26 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 03:13 PM
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Thank you Skargon. The intake and he valve covers (or crank case as you said) are separated.

If what Izzy and Chris were true then your dip stick tube would also equal a vac leak because I doubt that has an air tight seal on it.
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post #27 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 03:18 PM
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I'm up to try this. But I don't believe there will be any benefits in doing so.

The PCV system is similar to the EGR system, it just recycles unburned fumes to get reburned and to better stablelize combustions. I don't see any benefit in deleting it, but I am interested to see if there is a noticeable difference. But I don't think there will be any negative effects either since the valve covers and intake are really no way connected, so there is no way to produce an intake air leak simulation. So A/F should be the same.

I'm pretty sure ill be smelling exhaust gases while driving.

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post #28 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 03:19 PM
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I ran my car with the Oil Cap off, and air was coming out of the motor..
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post #29 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 04:21 PM
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I ran(drove) over to the local parts store, Auto Zone in this case(closest one to me) and picked up this breather filter


and this package of vacuum caps


Breather filter in place


and vacuum cap in place



Now then, where in the ever-loving-hell is un-metered air entering my engine? It actually runs a smidge smoother now. Take it for what its worth, I only bought these things to prove a point, and I don't care one way or the other if my PCV is hooked up or not. I know there is another one on the right valve cover that feeds into the back of the intake mani, but I am not removing my intake just to prove a point. Not yet anyway.

Now then, it's beer time
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post #30 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 05:13 PM
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You need to plug also the one that goes into the intake manifold, if its connected to the valve cover its getting unmetered air. It's not as difficult as you think, you don't need to remove the manifold to disconnect the air line going underneath the bottom. Just a tug and pull on the right hose. And plug it up.

I also just did this pcv delete. I put breathers on each valve cover and plugged both intake plenum outlet and intake manifold inlet.

Still havent driven it. Post back later, izzy hungry.

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post #31 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 97veesicks View Post
I ran(drove) over to the local parts store, Auto Zone in this case(closest one to me) and picked up this breather filter


and this package of vacuum caps


Breather filter in place


and vacuum cap in place



Now then, where in the ever-loving-hell is un-metered air entering my engine? It actually runs a smidge smoother now. Take it for what its worth, I only bought these things to prove a point, and I don't care one way or the other if my PCV is hooked up or not. I know there is another one on the right valve cover that feeds into the back of the intake mani, but I am not removing my intake just to prove a point. Not yet anyway.

Now then, it's beer time
Psychostick - "BEER!!!" - YouTube
You haven't proven anything. Stick a a/f ratio gauge on there to prove it doesn't affect anything then you'll prove me wrong. Now, you won't be evacuating those crankcase vapors at a sufficient rate either. All you did was add a breather to your engine that does nothing beneficial and wasted money.
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post #32 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97veesicks View Post
I ran(drove) over to the local parts store, Auto Zone in this case(closest one to me) and picked up this breather filter


and this package of vacuum caps


Breather filter in place


and vacuum cap in place



Now then, where in the ever-loving-hell is un-metered air entering my engine? It actually runs a smidge smoother now. Take it for what its worth, I only bought these things to prove a point, and I don't care one way or the other if
my PCV is hooked up or not. I know there is another one on the right valve cover that feeds into the back of the intake mani, but I am not removing my intake just to prove a point. Not yet anyway.

Now then, it's beer time
Psychostick - "BEER!!!" - YouTube
You actually did the very situation that does cause an intake leak situation. The one that I explained in my previous post. This is getting unmetered air, why because air is going in the drivers side cover and out the passenger side cover through the PCV valve suction into the intake manifold.

You need to let the passenger side cover breathe also and plug up the intake manifold inlet where the pcv was connected to. This way there is no unmetered air circulation into the intake from the valve covers.

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post #33 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 06:10 PM
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You haven't proven anything. Stick a a/f ratio gauge on there to prove it doesn't affect anything then you'll prove me wrong. Now, you won't be evacuating those crankcase vapors at a sufficient rate either. All you did was add a breather to your engine that does nothing beneficial and wasted money.
You send me the widebands and the appropriate gauge and I'll gladly oblige. Point out where un-metered air is entering my combustion cycle to prove the theory wrong.

M90 setup done, and slightly running lol. Working on self tuning now

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I've got Rembrandt as my right hand, and Solo as my pilot.
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post #34 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 06:14 PM
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You actually did the very situation that does cause an intake leak situation. The one that I explained in my previous post. This is getting unmetered air, why because air is going in the drivers side cover and out the passenger side cover through the PCV valve suction into the intake manifold.

You need to let the passenger side cover breathe also and plug up the intake manifold inlet where the pcv was connected to. This way there is no unmetered air circulation into the intake from the valve covers.
PCV stands for POSITIVE Crankcase Ventilation. The PCV does not pass air through the engine to get "sucked in" at the intake mani. If it were operating under a vacuum, then yes, feasibly it could let some un-metered air in a roundabout way, but alas, it is not negative pressure in the crankcase.

M90 setup done, and slightly running lol. Working on self tuning now

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I've got Rembrandt as my right hand, and Solo as my pilot.
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post #35 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 06:15 PM
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If you still have your pcv valve installed and the other end is open with a breather, that's an unmetered air.

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post #36 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 06:19 PM
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PCV stands for POSITIVE Crankcase Ventilation. The PCV does not pass air through the engine to get "sucked in" at the intake mani. If it were operating under a vacuum, then yes, feasibly it could let some un-metered air in a roundabout way, but alas, it is not negative pressure in the crankcase.
?? Yeah its a suction. The vacuum is caused by the intake. Meaning the air flow direction is from the valve cover to the intake, not the other way around.

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post #37 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 06:26 PM
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You send me the widebands and the appropriate gauge and I'll gladly oblige. Point out where un-metered air is entering my combustion cycle to prove the theory wrong.
YOU CREATED A VACUUM LEAK. That's all you did. The unmetered air is entering through that breather filter. There is no more "suction" going through the valve cover to remove the gasses. The suction was caused by having it connected to the intake piping. Now you just have an open element on your valve cover that is a vacuum leak and is allowing UNMETERED air back into the valve covers. It's not rocket science. You have proved nothing. Just because your car still runs and you don't notice anything does not mean its fine. Get a vacuum gauge and a wideband. If you don't then you will not prove anything except the fact that you wasted money.

Do you think the air just magically appears in the vacuum lines? No, it enters the engine through the MAF which METERS the air and travels through the intake manifold to the vacuum lines. All the air in the engine is METERED. If you throw on a breather it will allow UNMETERED air back into the engine and wont be circulated through the engine which is a vacuum leak like I stated above.
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post #38 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 06:33 PM
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No he didn't waste money, just not enough or know enough. 97veesicks, you still need to put a breather where the pcv valve goes nd plug up the intake manifold connection. That's it.

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post #39 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 07:00 PM
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Holy misinformation.

STRAIGHT from the wiki page

"The PCV valve is only one part of the PCV system, which is essentially a variable and calibrated air leak, whereby the engine returns its crankcase combustion gases. Instead of the gases being vented to the atmosphere, gases are fed back into the intake manifold, to re-enter the combustion chamber as part of a fresh charge of air and fuel. The PCV system is not a classical "vacuum leak". All the air collected by the air cleaner (and metered by the mass flow sensor, on a fuel injected engine) goes through the intake manifold. The PCV system just diverts a small percentage of this air via the breather to the crankcase before allowing it to be drawn back in to the intake tract again. It is an "open system" in that fresh exterior air is continuously used to flush contaminants from the crankcase and into the combustion chamber."

What part of the intake not being connected to the valve covers except by the PCV hose do you guys not understand? AS PREVIOUSLY EXPLAINED: Gasses form from the HEAT, the gasses do NOT come from the cylinders where combustion is taking place, nor does it come from the intake. If you block off where the PCV barb is on the intake then there will NOT be a vacuum leak.

Go outside now, take off the PCV from the crank case and plug the hose, start the car and voila! Bet itll run just fine.

There are no power benefits in doing this. The only real benefit is looks and that you dont have your intake runners lined with a thin layer of a tar like substance.
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post #40 of 86 Old September 23rd, 2012, 07:15 PM
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+Eleventybillion. Thank you GreenShift! I personally did the PCV "delete" to prove there is not any un-metered air entering the combustion cycle.

@Chris951: The ONLY metered air entering the engine is for the combustion cycle. The crankcase is under a POSITIVE pressure, not a NEGATIVE(e.g. vacuum). The "air" coming OUT of the valve covers is actually oil vapors and some other assorted gases associated with petroleum products. The other contributing factor to there being positive pressure in the crankcase is the action of the pistons and their travel. If you have, or know anybody that has, a carbureted engine take a look at it and find the PCV and take a good look at it. It has, wait for it........ A BREATHER ON IT!!!!!! PCV is not a "new" invention for fuel injected engines, and the purpose of it is to keep from over-pressurizing the crankcase and blowing seals out, as well as letting the various gasses out.

M90 setup done, and slightly running lol. Working on self tuning now

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