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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello folks,

I have been lurking here looking for info and not quite finding what I need. I am a very experienced car audio hobbyist (20 years) and I am trying to help an older brother make some decisions with replacing the Mach 460 HU in his sons car. Its a Christmas present.

Not having the car on hand makes it hard to determine what works and doesn't. If I am correct this factory head unit can be replaced and a new aftermarket deck added WITH THE PROPER HARNESS. I am also assuming that the amp will still power ALL the speakers. Somewhere my Brother picked up the notion that the Mach head unit powered the tweeters and the amp powered everything else. That sounds wacky to me. Can someone confirm one way or another?

My brother has his eyes fixated on a couple of DD CD/MP3 players. A Pioneer FH-P8000BT and a Clarion CX609. They both do about the same but the Pioneer has a much better EQ, 7 channel parametric vs 3 channel. I would rather see him go single din and get a better head unit since you are paying a premium for the DD. Crutchfield has that amazing JVC KD-S100 with the Bon Jiovi processing that would be perfect for a head unit only swap. This $500 deck is $129 and does all the things his DD pics do. The money saved could by a set of speakers and a small amp.

My concern is that the head unit is the ONLY thing he wants to replace. So my question to you folks is what harness does he need? In other words in is the Crutchfield supplied harness gonna work? Secondly, how much processing is done in the Mach 460 HU? If its anything like the junk Mach Audio I yanked out of my 2000 Explorer it does a lot of "Bose Effect" processing to make junk stock speakers sound ok to the mass market. I am worried that we pull the stock unit out, put in the Pioneer it will sound terrible.

How good/bad are the stock speakers. I know they are bad compared to the basic upgraded new speaker but will they sound ok with this swap.

Are there any "trap doors" or pit falls with this system? Anything special we should watch out for. I have a million other questions but we will go a few at a time.

What harness?
Aftermarket Headunit sound better than stock with no speaker change?
Any special things to watch out for?

Thanks. If anyone should happen to have a pic of a DD deck in a 2003 or similar dash that would be great. Also, if someone has a single din deck install with a kit that has cd tray that would be awesome. Thanks! Lastly, if anyone has experience with the JVC KD-S100 let me know what you think.

Bill
 

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First off, from a fellow 12v tech to another :welcome.

The mach system in our vehicles are great for a factory system but other then that they are just the same junk amps that you find in just about any Ford amplified vehicle. The 2001 and up mach systems in the mustangs are pretty straight forward the harness that you are looking for is Metra 70-5519.

There are 3 amps in the vehicle. 2 are on the rear deck lid that control the right and left channel subs (4) then there is one underneath the radio on the tranny hump floorboard that controls the mids/highs. These are basically your tweeters in which there are 4 in the vehicle; 2 in the sail panel and then 2 on the amp rack next to each sub.

The aftermarket deck that you choose will make it sound decent but you will have to adjust the settings to get a quality sound that doesnt sound like its distorting. It may not be pleasing to you, being an experienced installer and audiophile but you have to remember that its not your ears thats going to be listening to them:)

I personally love Pioneer just because of there EQ's but Kenwood and JVC make some good ones as well. Just FYI JVC was bought out by kenwood so know they have the Kenwood sound processors and other internals just have the JVC name on it:)

It should be fairly easy for you since you have experience but if you need anything just PM me and ill be glad to help you out
 

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^---- Let me be the second to welcome you...

for the 2003 the options are pretty much limitless... (Being that it has a DD opening... ) I picked up a Kenwood DDX512 H/U off of ebay for 275. shipped... The nicest features over most inexpensive pioneers is that it plays dvd and will read a usb flash drive... (up to 10 gig) as far as the harness... couldn't be easier... the crutchfield harness is correct buy best buy also has the harness fir appx 27 - 30.00 (if you decide to get an ebay or craigslist radio) The tweets in the doors and rear are powred off of the front amp... Good luck and welcome to MM :) :yes
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help. Knowing the correct harness is a majority of the battle. While folks like us have rides with multiple amps, component speakers and multiple subs, my Brother just wants to start his son down the road with an upgraded deck. Like most of us did the 1st time we made an upgrade, they will realize that a deck isn't enough and that is why I am making sure they get something with 6 channel outs with at least 4v. Amps, speakers and subs will follow.

I appreciate the DVD idea and would do that to my car. My Nephew is 17 and the last thing he needs is a DVD player in his car. There is no way it will happen as he is a smart kid and will figure out how to bypass the e-brake switch. His parents are really strict about driving and cell phones and the like so a regular CD player will work for now.

Wraith, I know that Kenwood bought JVC but the "merger" was only finalized 10/08. The KD-S100 is purely a JVC design. JVC hooked up with Bongiovi Acoustics is 12/06 and the KD-S100 came out shortly after as a $600 flagship deck and did not fair well sales wise. It is not of Kenwood origin.

Once again, thanks for the info. If anyone wants to chime in on what speakers can be fit with minor mods that would be great. I know my Explorer called for 6x8's but I was able to get deep 6 3/4 midbasses with an MDF adapter ring. Are the tweeters easy to get too and replace? I am thinking down the road when the replace the deck and are not all that happy with the sound.

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Oh, one more question guys. Do the Mach 460 amps run like regular aftermarket amps? Do they run at 4 ohms? Can you just drop in aftermarket speakers are are we talking a complete yank out? Thanks!
 

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The door and rear "super sound" speakers (not the tweeters) are rated at 6 ohms. What killed me was how these drivers were wired. There are two amps that drive these four speakers, each amp driving two speakers in parallel. The parallel wiring drops the impedance seen by the amp to 3 ohms which is why you can't just pop 4-ohm aftermarket drivers in their places since this would make the impedance 2 ohms which is a significant increase in power required of the amp.

Ok, "what's the big deal?" you ask. When I skimmed the circuit schematics I just assumed that each side was wired in parallel, i.e. the left door speaker and left rear speaker are connected to one amp and the right door speaker and right rear speaker connected to the other amp. Nope. While I was trying to figure out a way to use the factory wiring for my new system I saw that the front speakers are wired together and the rear speakers are wired together--you are not getting stereo from the bigger drivers! I don't know how it's wired in the head unit but I'm assuming the two amps are driving the same signal, i.e. mono signal. Unbelievable! Don't believe me? Just look at the schematics that you can download from FLEMWORLD

I recall seeing somewhere that the crossover frequency for the "tweeter" and "woofer" is around 300 Hz. It's low enough so that they can ALMOST get away with wiring the speakers like that (sound is ALMOST omni-directional at that frequency). However, for those of you who replaced only the drivers in the door sails beware. Aftermarket tweeters normally require high pass filtering above around 2.5 - 3.5 kHz (as my Infinity's do) so you would be putting incredible stress on your tweeters by driving them with the stock head unit which would be sending signals down to 300 Hz which is too low for a real tweeter to handle. Besides, the balance between the midrange/woofer and tweeter would not be right (you may be getting too little or too much highs).

Hope this answers all your questions regarding the system;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
wraitherlx,

That is some very valuable info and I have to say, being a member at sites like Elitecaraudio (now defunct), Caraudioforums, DIYMA, and others, its not often that someone is willing to go to the lengths you have for a new member.

This is awesome info and I will pass it on to my brother, an engineer ironically, and this will surely convince him to buy the right HU. He wants to save money with the Clarion CX609 w/ front and rear/sub 2v outs over the Pioneer FH-P8000BT which has front, rear and sub outputs at 4v. The Pioneer Bluetooth is better and will serve him better down the road.

Thanks!


The door and rear "super sound" speakers (not the tweeters) are rated at 6 ohms. What killed me was how these drivers were wired. There are two amps that drive these four speakers, each amp driving two speakers in parallel. The parallel wiring drops the impedance seen by the amp to 3 ohms which is why you can't just pop 4-ohm aftermarket drivers in their places since this would make the impedance 2 ohms which is a significant increase in power required of the amp.

Ok, "what's the big deal?" you ask. When I skimmed the circuit schematics I just assumed that each side was wired in parallel, i.e. the left door speaker and left rear speaker are connected to one amp and the right door speaker and right rear speaker connected to the other amp. Nope. While I was trying to figure out a way to use the factory wiring for my new system I saw that the front speakers are wired together and the rear speakers are wired together--you are not getting stereo from the bigger drivers! I don't know how it's wired in the head unit but I'm assuming the two amps are driving the same signal, i.e. mono signal. Unbelievable! Don't believe me? Just look at the schematics that you can download from FLEMWORLD

I recall seeing somewhere that the crossover frequency for the "tweeter" and "woofer" is around 300 Hz. It's low enough so that they can ALMOST get away with wiring the speakers like that (sound is ALMOST omni-directional at that frequency). However, for those of you who replaced only the drivers in the door sails beware. Aftermarket tweeters normally require high pass filtering above around 2.5 - 3.5 kHz (as my Infinity's do) so you would be putting incredible stress on your tweeters by driving them with the stock head unit which would be sending signals down to 300 Hz which is too low for a real tweeter to handle. Besides, the balance between the midrange/woofer and tweeter would not be right (you may be getting too little or too much highs).

Hope this answers all your questions regarding the system;)
 

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no problem at all really. Im a certified Master MECP installer and have always been more than willing to share my knowledge as I always quest for more knowledge myself. Im also a member on some of these 12v sites out there and it just amazes me how some of these people are not willing to share the knowledge they have, which is very sad. thats why I love this site b/c people are willing to help out and share their knowledge. Although there is the random B/S the people and knowledge that you can get from here far out weight those.

If your brother, or you, ever wants to bypass the system I can tell him, or you, the easiest way to do it as it is fairly easy! Ive also dealt with various vehicles, not just mustangs, so if you ever need anything else just let me know.

Hope that you decide to stick around;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well you are the exception to the rule. I actually started to give up on the various car audio forums because of the silly arguments that erupted. Whether about what sub design was better, if the new digital amps could maintain a flat frequency response and that manufacturers were lying and the constant bashing of new members who asked a question that they could have found by looking around or searching. Instead of welcoming them and then pointing out how to work the site, people were very often hostile and rude as they thought they had some power behind there 10,000,000 posts. I am sure you have seen these or similar treads that just show people biases and lack of communication skills. All the while these arguments were taking place, legitimate questions from people in need, and their questions were going unanswered. Pathetic.

I will surely stay around. I have this site bookmarked. I am sure I can get some help here with my Explorer and maybe even my wifes Jetta. The Jetta is our SQ car with Alpine 9887, Arc XEQ, Arc Audio CXL amps (4150 & 2500), Rainbow Vanadium Comp Extremes speakers and Arc 12's (Image Dynamic copied subs) :eek:. The Explorer forums are good but have limitations. No Master MECP there :D.

Thanks for your help and WE will be back.

Happy Thanksgiving!!!



no problem at all really. Im a certified Master MECP installer and have always been more than willing to share my knowledge as I always quest for more knowledge myself. Im also a member on some of these 12v sites out there and it just amazes me how some of these people are not willing to share the knowledge they have, which is very sad. thats why I love this site b/c people are willing to help out and share their knowledge. Although there is the random B/S the people and knowledge that you can get from here far out weight those.

If your brother, or you, ever wants to bypass the system I can tell him, or you, the easiest way to do it as it is fairly easy! Ive also dealt with various vehicles, not just mustangs, so if you ever need anything else just let me know.

Hope that you decide to stick around;)
 

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Well you are the exception to the rule. I actually started to give up on the various car audio forums because of the silly arguments that erupted. Whether about what sub design was better, if the new digital amps could maintain a flat frequency response and that manufacturers were lying and the constant bashing of new members who asked a question that they could have found by looking around or searching. Instead of welcoming them and then pointing out how to work the site, people were very often hostile and rude as they thought they had some power behind there 10,000,000 posts. I am sure you have seen these or similar treads that just show people biases and lack of communication skills. All the while these arguments were taking place, legitimate questions from people in need, and their questions were going unanswered. Pathetic.

I will surely stay around. I have this site bookmarked. I am sure I can get some help here with my Explorer and maybe even my wifes Jetta. The Jetta is our SQ car with Alpine 9887, Arc XEQ, Arc Audio CXL amps (4150 & 2500), Rainbow Vanadium Comp Extremes speakers and Arc 12's (Image Dynamic copied subs) :eek:. The Explorer forums are good but have limitations. No Master MECP there :D.

Thanks for your help and WE will be back.

Happy Thanksgiving!!!
You speak the truth about those sites. I remember that there was this site that I joined, cant remember, and when a moderator on there was trying to help someone out and bashing them for not knowing something I asked him how he could bash something when he himself didnt give the correct answer at all. needless to say, that certain mod was very unhappy that I proved him wrong in front of his "followers" and I was banned from that site. Pathetic.

Sounds like youve got a pretty stout set up going on in your Jetta. I will have to say though that I hate European vehicles when it comes to audio as everything is soo tight or has little to know room to work with:mad;
Good to hear that you are going to stick around, if you need anything from me just let me know ive got access to diagrams that contain wire colors/location/function. And Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
 
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