[dcook_14]

03/04 heads are going to be the best but they'll be expensive. B-heads from sn95 cobras or c-heads from the 99/01 cobras would work nicely too, and cost A LOT less.

There are several threads about 4v swaps, read up!

 

[dcook_14]

i'm doing a 4v swap in my GT right now. like stated before, a motor with the 03/04 heads would be best, but that is expensive. if you plan to do a supercharger, i hear alot of good things about the B heads (96-98 Cobra and Lincoln Mark VIII's) responding well to this as they have a very high air flow rate/capacity. im sure they would be your cheapest way to go about this. its not entirely necessary to do the whole 4v swap though (im sure someone else will chime in and say that and possibly lead to another 4v vs 2v argument ) a built 2v can be a monster to drive too
but if your set on a 4v (as i am too ) you've got alot of options and it all depends how deep your pockets are :yes

2v can definitely be a monster, just look at Jive's car. Supporting mods are going to make a bigger difference on a 4v than they would on a 2v though. After the initial swap, your hp per dollar is going to be much higher on a 4v. That's why I'm going with a 4v swap.

Just to throw it out there, have thought about a 3V swap? 3V's flow almost as good as the 4's, are aluminum blocks, only needs 1 set of cams, and are cheaper/more abundant. Just a thought. I am doing it

Haha, I was waiting for you to come and toss in the 3v option

Have you done any research on it to see what will need to be changed going 2 v to 3 v if so shoot me a pm so we can chat its also somthing that i have been considdring

I would be very interested in this information too :yes

c-heads :no
b-heads :yes

bheads are a better high reving boosting heads..
c heads are n/a heads..

since ur going with the kb then the hard too find b head intake wont be a problem..

Yep, B heads are definitely better for boost. I forgot the part about the OP wanting to supercharge. If you can get ahold of an sn95 cobra motor you'll have the forged crank, heads (with the good cams), timing components, and you can sell the intake. On a side note: B head intakes aren't as hard to find as everyone says they are, but yeah i'd rather have a KB than a Cobra intake sitting on top of my motor. What do you think... Procharger D1SC feeding a KB 2.1 hahahaha KABOOM!

 

[dcook_14]

Fine Debbie Downer, kill my dreams

 

[dcook_14]

KB discontinued the intake/ blower set-up for the b heads, had a problem with cracking I believe. I would also get the 4v block(alum. or iron), not that expensive and it is stronger

KB Superchargers

They still list a blower for a 96-98 Cobra, which would have B heads. A teksid or an iron block is gonna handle any streetable power you throw at it. I'd go with aluminum just for weight savings.

well, im pretty sure the blocks are essentially the same. the only thing i could see being different is maybe the coolant passages into the heads but im not positive on this. your GT block is iron. its strong but heavy. the termi's had iron blocks too. the mach 1's and 01 cobra's had an aluminum block and 98-96 cobra's and i think the 99's too had the aluminum teksid block with is probably the best aluminum block you can get.

I'm pretty sure the coolant passages are the same, but yeah that'd be a good thing to make sure on. Some of the 01 cobras came with leftover teksids, but most of them got the WAP aluminum block.

 

[dcook_14]

:yes

Here is a good thread on it.

Get in Line! Trick Flow 2v heads coming! - ModularFords.com

160 pages, are you ****ing kidding me? This is gonna take me all morning...

 

[dcook_14]

For these trickflow heads, they come with four-bolt replaceable cam bearing journals, 1.840in/1.450 in valves, powdered metal valve guides, ductile iron valve seats, chromemoly retainers and die-forged locks, beehive valve springs, and Vinton fluoroelastomer valve seals. It says they accept OE cams, followers, lash adjusters and valve covers.


What else is there to a head ie are there other things that you'd have to get to get these heads on and going?
Are followers and lash adjusters re-usable?
How much hp can these heads take, I'm looking for 600 rwhp?
Are the valves Stainless?
Would it be worth it to get bronze valve guides or titanium retainers?

Also, it says they increase the compression to like 10:1 WTF that's not good if I want to boost it...

 

[dcook_14]

I still don't understand why you'd spend $2000 on TW heads when you can spend maybe $800 on all the stuff for a 4v swap (I've found several complete motors for less than this) and have the same performance.

You cannot port the **** out of the TW heads, but you can clean them up a bit. You're still only going to be able to get a certain amount of air through the valves and into the motor. Plus you can P&P 4v heads too...

I bought an entire Mark VIII for less than $800. So now I have most of the stuff to convert my GT to a 4v.
I've seen complete sn95 cobra motors going for around $500 and I wish I would have just bought one of them instead of the Mark VIII but whatever.

The only reason I would ever get the TW heads is if I had already bought cams, headers, tb/plenum, udps, or other stuff like that that would work with the TW heads but not with the 4v heads. Or if you're absolutely crazy about weight, 2v heads weigh less than 4v heads.

The TW heads raise compression considerably, so I'm guessing that's where quite a bit of the power comes from.

 

[dcook_14]

Well my internet was garbage this weekend, so I'm going to do a DCook signiture 'quote everything you want to reply to' post.

Im not saying 4Vs arent a great design they are, But how much remove is there to improve with a port? I dont see much talk about 4v guys porting heads, maybe Ive just missed it.

There is a lot of room to port. It's a cast head, not a performance based aftermarket head. And you don't see the 4v guys porting because they already flow great numbers :dunno

Right, I am not saying that they didnt do a great job however, it doesnt make sense to stay 2V if you are going to swap heads? Just my $0.02

$2000 for aftermarket TW heads vs. about $500 to do a 4v swap... Doesnt make much sense to me either.

Trick flow themselves said they were comin out with another version for more power so there has to be room left to grow.

Norcal, you said that TF must port them to get the better number when in fact its a totally redesigned head. Sounds like your missing some facts. On top of the power gains the average MPG with these have was around 24 mpg, lot better than the usual 18-20

The new version they are coming out with aren't going to be for more power, they are going to be more FI friendly. The current production TW heads raise the compression level to a point where FI would be dangerous. The higher compression probably has something to do with the better fuel economy too.

I don't know why the total all out "denial" about these heads are. Either people are so used to 4v people SO MUCH BETTER than 2v that they can't comprehend any different. OR people with 4v engines don't want to admit that maybe just maybe a 2v head can flow just as good?

I don't think anybody can deny that the $2000 highly engineered performance based TW heads flow as well as a STOCK 4v head. Trickflow did a great job with these heads, but they are 2v heads. The stuff you quoted from Ken from that "Get in line thread" even said that there is a limitation to how much volume can flow through a 2v head. I highlighted it below.

I think the real question is not which one is better, the question should be which one is a more sensible swap. For the money, I'm going with 4v

"I'm sure there is. Some playing needs to be done. Trickflow hasn't even tried to port them yet. Obviously you can only flow so much air through 1 valve at a certain size, but I'm sure there are improvements to be made."

It seems like the only people who get exited over these heads are the N/A guys. Have fun with that, I will change the pulley and swap the tune to produce those gains.

Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking. If you're wanting to build a sweet N/A car, then the TW heads might be a good decision. But I'm more concerned about hp, so I'm going 4v.

I dont know who said the 4vs will be obsolete, But like Kevin said they will bring the 2vs up to a level damn close to the 4vs.

Again, all that work and money to make them flow damn close to a stock 4v... Is it worth it?


Okay, I've said my piece. I'm not bashing the TW heads at all. They are a great head and have their place. But IMHO the 4v just make a lot more sense if you're going to swap heads. The only advantage I see from a TW head is that it'll weigh a little less than a 4v head. But with the money you save doing a 4v swap, you can buy a tubular k / coilover setup and cut that weight.

 

[dcook_14]

Those are used 4v heads are they not? Not really a fair comparison. In a year or more there will be cheaper TW heads out there for a lot cheaper.

If I dropped $2k on these new TW headds, there is no way I'd be selling them a year later. But it's a good point that I'm comparing new 2v heads to used 4v heads, but that's what's available right now

I can't see them getting more power without porting. Not that these heads lack power.

The new head design will not make more hp than the current heads on an N/A motor. In fact, they'll probably make less since they are going to have to lower the compression ratios you see with the current heads to appeal to the boost crowd. They are going to redesign the way the air flows so it's better for boost.

And this is what I and many others have said exactly. These heads aren't for boost really. So those that are coming in poo-pooing it because they are doing boost is missing the point.

I guess I don't really see the point in trying to squeeze all the N/A power out of a car that you can. Just my opinion, so don't rag on me about it. And I'm not trying to start an N/A vs boost thing. What if you decide to go boost in the future? Then you'll be sitting there saying, "Damn I wish I woulda got those 4v heads instead"

As for reasons to go TF instead of 4v, I am not going into here. Because it seems some have gotten butt-hurt over it all. (I am not referring to you BTW)

Yeah too many people are getting too upset about this subject. The new TW heads are an awesome 2v head. Whether or not you think they are better (vs. 4v heads) for your application is up to the individual. I just like seeing all the facts being put out on the table, people don't need to get into pissing matches about it.

I'm into boost because I don't feel like dropping thousands of dollars just to hope to hit 350 RWHP. I thought it was smarter and cheaper to go with a blower and easily hit 400. So for me, the 4v heads are a better option.

BTW a 2v to 4v swap doesn't seem to be that cheap or easy

http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/96-98/22697-2v-4v-swap.html

Another

2v to 4v swap finally done! - ModularFords.com

2v vs 4v motor? - Ford Mustang Forums

As a matter of fact, I was just told a 4v swap would not only take more work, but it would also be more expensive in the long run. *shrug*

But if someone can show me where I can swap my 2v heads for some 4v for $500, I'd love to know. Because $500 is a lot cheaper than 2k. And since they flow about the same, that's a no-brainer.

So if someone can point me in the right direction...

These threads are a little misleading, they make it sound a lot harder than it really is. Its not like you can bolt the 4v heads on and put all your other 2v stuff on there like you can with the TW heads. Of course you need all the timing components, intake, exhaust to go with it.

However, you can find complete motors for like $500 that will have all the things you need. I found a whole friggen car for $750. That means I can sell the 4r70w, 8.8 rear end, and other crap out of it and do the swap for less than $1000 after I get an intake and cams. The Mark VIIIs can be picked up pretty cheap, but you're still going to need the 96-98 cobra intake (which is not nearly as hard to find as everyone says) and you'll probably want the intake cams from that year cobra as well. You'll have all the other crap that you need if you buy a complete motor or in my case, the whole car.

 

[dcook_14]

What I found though is, the 4v swap cost just as much, if not more in the long run. You simply aren't going to get a 2v swapped for $500. You may be able to buy heads for that if your lucky. It's not the norm. Not in these parts anyhow. If we were to be honest, the cheapest one could really do it is about $1500. While you talk about great deals, they are few and far between. Most people I've talked to that has actually done the swap themselves and for others claims said swap, at best was $1500, per usual around $3k.

Of course they could be lying. I did ask two different sources that have done the swap more than once. (One had done it to 6 different cars, my second source even gave me a higher $ amount. I used the lower $ amount reference. )

So when being honest about the price, it really comes down to if you want 4v or 2v. Or which is the easier one to install. Which would also be the TF heads. Nothing needs changed but the heads.

It took me about a day and a half to find my mark viii for $750. And I was only looking at ones within 150 miles so I could pick it up and haul it back in one day. I was going to just use the block, but then I found out the heads were really boost friendly and I was like "BONUS"!

I guess I wasn't trying to imply that the whole entire swap was going to cost $500, but it's easy to find heads for less than that. Complete sn95 cobra heads usually go for $200-300. Intakes go for about $300. Timing components, another $200.

If you can find a complete motor from an sn95 cobra for even $1000 (which is on the high side) you can sell the block for at least $250 and the forged crank for atleast $250. Now you have $500 in the heads, timing components, intake, exhaust, etc. that you need. It's around $200 to have heads decked and cleaned up so now you'd have $700 in the 4v setup. You have to extend a few wires, but other than that the stock GT wiring works just fine.

 

[dcook_14]

I think your price ranging is a bit off. But ok.

I've been looking for 4v components for the past couple of months. I'm just relaying the average prices that I've seen. I could post up links to a bunch of stuff, but I don't really feel like doing that much work just to give examples. Seems like the good deals on 4v components come around every two weeks or so on the forums that I cruise. If someone is SERIOUS about the 4v swap I can help them out with links to things I come across, that is if I don't want/need the part