2V to 4V
41 - 60 of 121 Posts
Joined
·
13,149 Posts
+1 to this....Saying the TF heads are outflowing the 4v heads doesn't make sense at all. You have to spend thousands of dollars just to get your heads slightly over the edge that 4v's have from stock.
Joined
·
4,237 Posts
Gain of 34 HP over stock ported PI heads.
Why doesn't it make sense? Have you read any info on them at all?
Joined
·
11,127 Posts
4vs are alot better than the 2vs and this is as cast, before porting. If you read my post above yours, the are direct replacements and TF is working on a versions for even more power with a blower. How much time and money is it goin to cost to get a 4v setup together and running well?
Joined
·
2,560 Posts
4V's arent just better as cast, they are a better design period.
If trickflow did the same work on a 4V head it would absolutely destroy their 2v.
Look at any "performance" honda engine, nissan engine, toyota engine, motorcycle engine, indy car engine, etc. ALL of them are DOHC.
Hell the s2000 makes the most HP per liter, what do they have DOHC.
As far as the "best" head design goes... 4V FTW all day. As far as practicality for those that don't really need 4V and up performance. trickflow...
Joined
·
4,237 Posts
Absolutely. But since they don't...
Again the new trick flow 2v heads are showing flow numbers that are equal tom and sometimes besting stock 4v head flows.
Would porting the 4v make it even better? SURE! But then you could also port the trick flow,
A stock 2v GT with just these heads swapped are making Mach1 numbers from what I have been reading.
Joined
·
2,560 Posts
The porting potential of the trick flows will be minute. You really think trickflow doesn't port them in production? how do you think they are getting 4vish performance?
Joined
·
7,044 Posts
I still don't understand why you'd spend $2000 on TW heads when you can spend maybe $800 on all the stuff for a 4v swap (I've found several complete motors for less than this) and have the same performance.
You cannot port the **** out of the TW heads, but you can clean them up a bit. You're still only going to be able to get a certain amount of air through the valves and into the motor. Plus you can P&P 4v heads too...
I bought an entire Mark VIII for less than $800. So now I have most of the stuff to convert my GT to a 4v.
I've seen complete sn95 cobra motors going for around $500 and I wish I would have just bought one of them instead of the Mark VIII but whatever.
The only reason I would ever get the TW heads is if I had already bought cams, headers, tb/plenum, udps, or other stuff like that that would work with the TW heads but not with the 4v heads. Or if you're absolutely crazy about weight, 2v heads weigh less than 4v heads.
The TW heads raise compression considerably, so I'm guessing that's where quite a bit of the power comes from.
You cannot port the **** out of the TW heads, but you can clean them up a bit. You're still only going to be able to get a certain amount of air through the valves and into the motor. Plus you can P&P 4v heads too...
I bought an entire Mark VIII for less than $800. So now I have most of the stuff to convert my GT to a 4v.
I've seen complete sn95 cobra motors going for around $500 and I wish I would have just bought one of them instead of the Mark VIII but whatever.
The only reason I would ever get the TW heads is if I had already bought cams, headers, tb/plenum, udps, or other stuff like that that would work with the TW heads but not with the 4v heads. Or if you're absolutely crazy about weight, 2v heads weigh less than 4v heads.
The TW heads raise compression considerably, so I'm guessing that's where quite a bit of the power comes from.
Joined
·
2,880 Posts
$2K for 34 HP? Hell, even 3V heads can be had complete for less than a grand and flow almost as good as a 4V in stock form. Bottom line is your wasting your money on something that has limited potential. 2V heads are verry limited and the TF's are just the best of the worst so to speak.
Joined
·
4,237 Posts
No no no. 34hp OVER PORTED PI HEADS. They are giving anywhere between 70 and 80hp gain.
The only people I see that don't like the heads are people that already own 4v cars.
Great, no big deal. They aren't for everyone. They are flowing just as good however.
Joined
·
11,127 Posts
Im not saying 4Vs arent a great design they are, But how much remove is there to improve with a port? I dont see much talk about 4v guys porting heads, maybe Ive just missed it.
As far as doin the same work to the 4v and the porting potential of the TF 2Vs, it comes down to is there that much room for improvement on the 4v heads. Trick Flow redesign the 2V heads from the ground up, they put the intake valve on the oppsite side of the cam as well as plenty of other things to make more power and a stronger head. These heads are making 4v number AS CAST!! And Trickflow has plans to come out with a even more potent version for FI applications! You really should read up before you try and bash a new product.
Joined
·
2,880 Posts
Right, I am not saying that they didnt do a great job however, it doesnt make sense to stay 2V if you are going to swap heads? Just my $0.02
Joined
·
2,560 Posts
Here's my point as you guys didn't seem to get it. Trickflow did a great job of getting the most power out of 16 valves as possible. Great. Now put yourselves in their shoes. You're trying to get as much flow as possible. Do you think they left flow restrictions in their heads for you to P&P out?? No. I have not had my hands on any but I can bet my bottom dollar that trick flow did a better job of designing the flow paths of their god sent 2v heads than you're machine shop could do. 90% of the possible improvements that can be done have been done. That leaves you with 10% go crazy! 4v heads were not designed to squeeze every last hp out of the motor.
Joined
·
11,127 Posts
Trick flow themselves said they were comin out with another version for more power so there has to be room left to grow.
Norcal, you said that TF must port them to get the better number when in fact its a totally redesigned head. Sounds like your missing some facts. On top of the power gains the average MPG with these have was around 24 mpg, lot better than the usual 18-20
Norcal, you said that TF must port them to get the better number when in fact its a totally redesigned head. Sounds like your missing some facts. On top of the power gains the average MPG with these have was around 24 mpg, lot better than the usual 18-20
Joined
·
4,237 Posts
I gave up trying to talk about it. Unless you've done your homework about them, why even comment? :/
There is, Tons. I read a long thread with one of the workers that was involved. And yes, they are very portable.
I don't know why the total all out "denial" about these heads are. Either people are so used to 4v people SO MUCH BETTER than 2v that they can't comprehend any different. OR people with 4v engines don't want to admit that maybe just maybe a 2v head can flow just as good? That is the only reason why I can see anyone acting so defensively about these.
*shrug*
I am sure I will be told no one is acting defensively.
Joined
·
4,237 Posts
Why not? You'll have heads LIGHTER than a 4v while flowing the SAME AMOUNT OF AIR. That's an advantage.
Joined
·
2,560 Posts
No I didn't say they must port them to get the better HP. I can assure you that they have done as much as they can to get these heads to where they are at.
And they are coming out with a new head for FI applications. I promise you they didn't half ass the production of the current model.
Here's an example of how this concept works. If you take a turbo off an SRT-4 and get it clipped and ported you will get more HP. If you take an aftermarket turbo such as a GT30 you will not be able to clip and port it for gains. this work has already been maximized. When Ford designed the 2V head they weren't going for MAX power. When TF designed their 2V they were going for MAX power.
If you want to get technical you are bashing TF far more than I am. I am saying that TF did the best that can be done for the 2V head. You are saying they didn't.
And they are coming out with a new head for FI applications. I promise you they didn't half ass the production of the current model.
Here's an example of how this concept works. If you take a turbo off an SRT-4 and get it clipped and ported you will get more HP. If you take an aftermarket turbo such as a GT30 you will not be able to clip and port it for gains. this work has already been maximized. When Ford designed the 2V head they weren't going for MAX power. When TF designed their 2V they were going for MAX power.
If you want to get technical you are bashing TF far more than I am. I am saying that TF did the best that can be done for the 2V head. You are saying they didn't.
Joined
·
2,560 Posts
Oh I did my homework. And I figured out this math problem in ****ing grade school.
2 < 4....
Turns out I got an A+
41 - 60 of 121 Posts
