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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so ive finally decided what im going to build for my '88 Hatch. i wanted to move away from the norm and build a nasty N/A 408w, but i'd be hard pressed to reach my 750rwhp goal N/A. after alot of consideration, ive decided to jump on the On3 Performance band wagon, and build up the '69 351w with low boost, then eventually rebuild it up to a 408w, with a little more boost. i only plan on running about 6psi on the 351w due to its high CR of 11:1. once i rebuild it with lower compression, i'll up the boost to around 10-12psi.

i'll have about 5 grand to get this thing started, and hopefully running on low boost. heres my list so far:

On3 Turbo Kit
On3 MAF and Fuel Kit (60# injectors)
28oz Balancer/Flywheel
Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch
351w Oil Pan Swap Kit
Edelbrock EFI Super Victor Intake Manifold
Edelbrock 90* Intake Elbow
Accufab 90mm Throttle Body
AEM Wideband Gauge
Boost and Fuel Pressure Gauge

i already have oil pressure and water temp gauges, along with an Autometer Tach. hopefully everything i listed is enough to get me started, along with some minor odds and ends of course. but i do have a few questions.

the '69 block i have was obviously carbed, which used a vacuum advance dizzy. being EFI, i need a new dizzy that will fit the 351w block, and operate correctly. can i just pick up a new OEM replacement dizzy for say, an early 90's 351w block? like for a Bronco or something? or must i spend some extra coin and get a fancy MSD unit? im already running a 6AL box with Rev control, and i dont need anything fancy.

my block has a 9.48" deck height. what must i do to accommodate for that throughout my build? i assume i will need to have the intake manifold milled on each side just a little bit?

when i eventually stroke the engine to a 408w, what type of rotating assembly would i need, in reference to the 9.48" deck height that is. CHP has 2 different kits, being practically identical, except for compression height and rod length being slightly different. now, if i found the right formula online:

Deck Height = Compression Height + (Stroke/2) + Rod Length
9.48" = 1.280 + (4/2) + 6.200
while the other kit is
9.485 = 1.235 + (4/2) + 6.250

this leads me to believe that the first kit would be best for me, when the time comes that is. right now, my main concern is the dizzy situation. im going to pick up a MAF computer locally, and convert it over from SD when i get the kit and start to install everything.

i think thats everything i wanted to ask, but im sure ill raise more questions as this progressed. thanks for all the help
 

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Why wouldn't you just do the stroker kit right from the qet go? Are you planning on running this motor on boost without pulling it apart first to check everything? When was the last time this motor ran, and can you verify compression and oil pressure from the last time it ran? I would tear down first. I'm doing the same with the 351 in my garage. If it were me, I would build the stroker with the pistons that you desire and break it in well N/A while saving money for the rest of the stuff you need. Why would you want to do it twice? You'll have to retune for more boost too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
you raise a good point. i could rebuild the engine first instead of the turbo kit. then save up for the turbo, instead of the other way around. the heads will stay stock for a little while anyway.

the engine was pulled i think 8 years ago, running fine. the pan still has oil in it, and still turns over just fine. but a rebuild might be the better way to go.

the only real downside to this approach is having to wait longer before the engine swap, but i guess it is better to only do it once.

so i save up some extra money, rebuild with the stroker kit, throw the turbo kit on it WITHOUT boost, break the engine in good, then add boost to the mix. then, with time, toss some good heads on it for some extra power.
 

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Don't expect much from a 408 with stock heads. At least until you get the turbo on there. The best flowing Windsor heads were the GT-40s and they're not enough for a 302, let alone 100 more cubes. Any 351 head will be even worse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Oh I don't expect much at all. The only reason ill be sticking with the stock heads is insufficient funds lol. The boost will begin very shortly after the engine is broken in. Ill just keep the wastegate open until then.

Any thoughts on the dizzy and deck height? What about the cam? It should be flat tappet, can I throw some link bar lifters in there and run it or is there more to it? Thanks again
 

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You should be able to use link bar lifters and a standard base circle roller cam no problem. Just make sure the oil bands line up height wise with the oil galley holes in the lifter bores. I would call and talk to whatever manufacturer you buy the lifters from and ask if they will work. Just make sure you know what cam you're using first.

Your idea to find a distributor from an EFI 9.5 deck is the way I would go. Just make sure it's one from an older vehicle that has the distributor mounted TFI and if it's not from a roller block car, which it probably won't be, get a bronze distributor gear if you do a roller cam. I would upgrade the rest of the ignition system though. Better cap, rotor, wires, and coil. No ignition box though unless you want a 2 step or something like that. Let the EEC control the timing, otherwise there's pretty much no point in having the car tuned.

Also, all 9.5 decks measure 9.48 as far as I know, so you should be good.
 

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I'm doing the same build man. Check out my in over my head build thread. I'm doing a builit 408 stroker on 3 turbo
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
these link-bar lifters should work right?

my ignition box doesnt control timing, just gives a much better spark. as for the dizzy, i could pick up a new OEM unit from autozone, but im not sure about the gear material. is that something i could just swap myself?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
just another thought. if i install link-bar lifters, can i continue to use the STOCK 351w cam, or can i NOT mix the flat tappet cam with roller lifters? if i cant mix them, would my STOCK 302 cam be sufficient enough to use until i get some TW heads and a cam to match? or would an alphabet cam be a better temporary fix (theyre cheap after all)?
 

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You'd be better off running an HO cam than a letter cam or the 351 cam. I don't know the base circle of the flat tappet cam so I don't know if you can run it or not, but I wouldn't bother anyways. I don't know if those lifters will work or not either. I don't know the exact height of the oil galley holes in the lifter bores vs. those lifters. I would call crane and ask them if they'll work on a 69 block. I believe different years had different heights, so make sure you tell them its a 69 block. And definitely don't call summit tech line. They'll tell you anything just to get product out the door. Bunch of idiots that work there. If not, ask on SBFtech, or Hardcore50 or yellowbullet. You should get a response from someone who knows if you don't get one here. Lots more guys with experience on those sites.

Also make sure there's no wear marks on that cam. I'm going through the same situation right now because I'm re-using my cam out of my engine that starved for oil and left some marks on my cam. Those will transfer over on to your new expensive lifters and you don't want that obviously. I was told to take red rouge cloth (jewelers cloth), WD-40, and a smooth mill file and lay the rough cloth flat on the backside of the file work the lobes back to flat. Haven't tried this yet, and my cam is billet, so take that for what it's worth. But I'll definitely be doing that on my build.

If you're just going to run a SADI core cam, which all the ones you mentioned are, then the steel gear on the distributor is fine. If you ever switch to a billet, a bronze gear is better. But come to think of it, I have no idea if you can remove the gear on a stock distributor or not. I think I had to grind mine off on my old spare stocker to use as a oil pump priming tool, so maybe they're not removable. Pull it out of the box and check before you buy it and see if it looks to be a part of the shaft.. or maybe someone else can verify that for you too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ill be sure to post or call up Crane about those lifters. Summits site claims they work for the 69 block but that don't mean ****.

I don't plan on using some fancy custom Turbo cam. Just some OTS came that'll give me a decent boost in power. I read that the F303 cam is a decent Turbo cam, while maintaining good idle. Any thoughts? Good to know I don't need a bronze dizzy gear though. Less to worry about LOL. Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it.

I'm gunna look into getting a bigger loan so that I can build this outright. Aeromotive fuel system is gunna kill me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Like posted in the other thread, boost can make up for things easier. Lol
 

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Well the alphabet cams aren't that cheap anymore .They're like $200 now. Anderson cams are $100 more and a LOT better camshaft. They're billet, better lobe designs, and the lobes aren't all over the place like the TFS and alphabet cams are. If you're going to spend the money, get a decent camshaft, or just use the stocker until you get the heads.

Are you getting the complete aeromotive system? Cause you can just sump your stock tank and make your own fuel system cheaper than that ridiculous price aeromotive wants for their stuff.
 

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Like posted in the other thread, boost can make up for things easier. Lol
Boost can make up for lower flowing heads and intake because you're cramming air down the intake tracts throat, but the cam isn't something you can mask with boost if it's wrong. N/A or forced induction, if the cam's wrong, it can be a turd.
 

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so ive finally decided what im going to build for my '88 Hatch. i wanted to move away from the norm and build a nasty N/A 408w, but i'd be hard pressed to reach my 750rwhp goal N/A. after alot of consideration, ive decided to jump on the On3 Performance band wagon, and build up the '69 351w with low boost, then eventually rebuild it up to a 408w, with a little more boost. i only plan on running about 6psi on the 351w due to its high CR of 11:1. once i rebuild it with lower compression, i'll up the boost to around 10-12psi.

i'll have about 5 grand to get this thing started, and hopefully running on low boost. heres my list so far:

On3 Turbo Kit
On3 MAF and Fuel Kit (60# injectors)
28oz Balancer/Flywheel
Centerforce Dual Friction Clutch
351w Oil Pan Swap Kit
Edelbrock EFI Super Victor Intake Manifold
Edelbrock 90* Intake Elbow
Accufab 90mm Throttle Body
AEM Wideband Gauge
Boost and Fuel Pressure Gauge

i already have oil pressure and water temp gauges, along with an Autometer Tach. hopefully everything i listed is enough to get me started, along with some minor odds and ends of course. but i do have a few questions.

the '69 block i have was obviously carbed, which used a vacuum advance dizzy. being EFI, i need a new dizzy that will fit the 351w block, and operate correctly. can i just pick up a new OEM replacement dizzy for say, an early 90's 351w block? like for a Bronco or something? or must i spend some extra coin and get a fancy MSD unit? im already running a 6AL box with Rev control, and i dont need anything fancy.

my block has a 9.48" deck height. what must i do to accommodate for that throughout my build? i assume i will need to have the intake manifold milled on each side just a little bit?

when i eventually stroke the engine to a 408w, what type of rotating assembly would i need, in reference to the 9.48" deck height that is. CHP has 2 different kits, being practically identical, except for compression height and rod length being slightly different. now, if i found the right formula online:

Deck Height = Compression Height + (Stroke/2) + Rod Length
9.48" = 1.280 + (4/2) + 6.200
while the other kit is
9.485 = 1.235 + (4/2) + 6.250

this leads me to believe that the first kit would be best for me, when the time comes that is. right now, my main concern is the dizzy situation. im going to pick up a MAF computer locally, and convert it over from SD when i get the kit and start to install everything.

i think thats everything i wanted to ask, but im sure ill raise more questions as this progressed. thanks for all the help
It's .020 difference in deck height. When you order your stroker kit tell them you have a 69 block with that deck height, they will sell you pistons with a different deck height.
Use a distributor from an 89 F250 with a 351. In 90 they started using the 94/95 pigtail style distributor.
You want to get your engine together and check how your intake sits on the heads and mates to the ports by looking down into the intake runners with a penlight and seeing how well they mate up. If they are too high on the intake, then have it milled.
 

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If you're just going to run a SADI core cam, which all the ones you mentioned are, then the steel gear on the distributor is fine. If you ever switch to a billet, a bronze gear is better. But come to think of it, I have no idea if you can remove the gear on a stock distributor or not. I think I had to grind mine off on my old spare stocker to use as a oil pump priming tool, so maybe they're not removable. Pull it out of the box and check before you buy it and see if it looks to be a part of the shaft.. or maybe someone else can verify that for you too.
The gear comes off very easily. You knock out the roll pin, flip the distributor upside down and put the gear on blocks and press the shaft out of the gear. The truck distributors come with a cast iron gear, so you will need the FRPP one they sell as a replacement, it is steel and will work with just about any roller cam you use. To replace it, press it back onto the shaft and drill another hole and put a roll pin in it. If you are patient and mark everything, you can press it back on and use the old hole. It's a pita, but it can be done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
sorry my break was just about over so I didn't have time for a long winded post. I do plan on using the 302 cam until I get heads with a matching cam. I was just looking for a cheap temporary alternative. But since the alphabet cams aren't cheap ill just stick with my 302 cam for now.

As for the fuel system. I was planning on getting that, cause I knew nothing different LOL. Ill look into making my own setup for cheaper. Will aeromotives 320 pump be enough, or would a walbro 255 be OK?

Thanks again for all the help guys. I'm looking to get this started in the next month or 2, so this is really helping me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
back to the fuel system...... i cant seem to find any information online about sumping a tank. would i be able to upgrade to a 255lph pump with a "boost-a-pump" in place for the boost? obviously i should upgrade the size of my fuel lines/rails. could i just use standard EFI fuel line from the pump to the rails, or do i need something special? i dont want anything special, like AN fittings and such, just enough to get the job done.
 

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Pick up a trick flow stg 1 cam over on corral.net used for like 100 bucks, a friend of mine just finished dyno tuning his 302 with just the tf h/c/I swap and a s trim centri sc. He made over 450hp and something like 440tq from just the 302. And don't bother buying the turbo kit until you get some good heads on that, the heads will cost less than the turbo kit and will out perform a boosted 408 on stock heads, and when you do get the turbo kit you will be so much happier.

For the fuel system if it was me I would just stick with a 255 walbro and something like 46# injectors, by the time you are maxing those out you will have to re plump your fuel system.

Also are you aware that you will need a special headers and a oil pan for the 351 base block swap?

Ps. Corral.net and used parts are your wallets friend
 
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