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I've heard a lot of bad about the 4.6 sohc. I heard that it can't hold a lot of power without blowing up. Is there any truth to this? I'm looking to do a swap from the 3.8 to the 4.6, and am willing to spend the money to get it up to around 600hp to the wheels, however, I've heard that the sohc 4.6 tends to blow up when you get that high. That doesn't sound like a very good v8 motor. Anyhow, I was thinking about getting one used and rebuilding it with better parts. Would that making the death of the motor less likely? And what brand of parts should I use? Are the "Ford Racing" parts (ie pistons, heads) the same as what's already in it, or are they better than the stock ones? How high can you push the sohc 4.6 before you have problems? Thanks guys!
 

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kellog crank, manley/modmax rods, manley/dimond/dss pistons. total seal ap rings, tri-metal bearings. a good machine shop that will get your specs right.
 

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kellog crank, manley/modmax rods, manley/dimond/dss pistons. total seal ap rings, tri-metal bearings. a good machine shop that will get your specs right.
What kind of hp would that get me? plus, i'm debating on slapping an eaton m112 on there. i know they put them on the dohc 4.6 on the 03-04 cobras. can the sohc handle that without blowing up?
 

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What kind of hp would that get me? plus, i'm debating on slapping an eaton m112 on there. i know they put them on the dohc 4.6 on the 03-04 cobras. can the sohc handle that without blowing up?
By the time your done with the eaton and it's setup, it would of been cheaper to go buy a used centri kit and less hasle too.
And yes the sohc 4.6 would handle it aslong as your on a safe tune under 400rwhp people have gotten more out of the stock block but they risk blowing up.
And for the setup's stal gave you, you won't get high hp out of just a forged motor it just allows you to build a safe hp car without having to worry about blowing up.
 

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By the time your done with the eaton and it's setup, it would of been cheaper to go buy a used centri kit and less hasle too.
And yes the sohc 4.6 would handle it aslong as your on a safe tune under 400rwhp people have gotten more out of the stock block but they risk blowing up.
So with a sohc, stay under 400hp? Do you really need a supercharger at all to get there? Wouldn't a better internal setup get me there? (ie better parts, compression, heads....) or am I wrong? I've rebuilt a lot of muscle cars and street rods with my dad, but we never really get into the motors much. usually buy crate or rebuilt from autozone or other places.
 

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So with a sohc, stay under 400hp? Do you really need a supercharger at all to get there? Wouldn't a better internal setup get me there? (ie better parts, compression, heads....) or am I wrong? I've rebuilt a lot of muscle cars and street rods with my dad, but we never really get into the motors much. usually buy crate or rebuilt from autozone or other places.
There are more expirence people on here then me but I will try to explain the best I can.
With a sohc motor like our's the internal's can only take up to about 400rwhp and after that the rod's are gonna let go most of the time.
If you want 400hp out of your motor n/a it's gonna take alot more money to get there trickflow head's agressive cam's notched piston's higher compression ratio, it is easier to achieve 400hp with a blower or a great nitrous set up.
As far as compression and head's it really depend's on what you want out of your car, do you really want to stay n/a of have some sort of f/i on it.

Sorry missed your first question it's not that our motor can't handle 400hp its the internal's of the motor that can't.
 

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high compression in the 11-1 and up will help out, a big bore, or boss block will help even more. unfortunatly it takes alot of rpm's to hit 400 hp na out of a 2v which would require a forged crank, rods, and pistons would bring the cr up. unfortunatly the stock computer is only good to about 7k rpm's so it would have to be swaped for a auto mach 1 computer since it is capable of handleing 7500 rpm's. in the the long run the cheaper rout is nitrous or fi.
 

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Your looking at a 1100-1400hp limit on 2v's (at the motor) on the stock from the factory block with all aftermarket goodies as mentioned above.
 

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I only wish that people wouldn't think the valvetrain style limits the internal's strength. The valvetrain is just going to limit what you can flow.

Lately it seems like everyone thinks "SOHC" is synonymous with weak, and "DOHC" translate to top fuel dragster-type power. You can have 10 camshafts for all it matters, it won't make the internals stronger, or weaker.

The SOHC (Supposedly weak) 4.6 in the 1999-2004 has commonly handled 400 RWHP, some daily drive them at 350 or so RWHP, and a select few have reached 450+ RWHP on stock internals. How is that not a very good V8 engine? Stock, they make 260-270 HP at the crank. They have handled 530+ at the crank (About 450 RWHP). That is more than double the power they made stock. That is some pretty damn good leeway when it comes to modding, double the stock power.

Same deal with the 03-04 Cobra. Stock they made an underrated 390 HP, and some have taken them to 700+ RWHP on stock internals. That is over 800 HP at the crank. Roughly double what they made stock. Ford makes some tough engines, people just expect too much out of them on stock internals. For example, you're coming from a V6 and seems like you're expecting a stock internal 4.6 GT engine to handle 600+ RWHP.

For a good short block, just check out MMR. It'll save you time and cash over buying a stock 4.6 and having it built. What you would need is the MMR street mod 750 short block, they handle up to 750 RWHP. Gives you room to improve on your 600 RWHP goal, or to just be able to have an extra stout engine, so you can put a lot of street miles on it without any worries.

Modular Mustang Racing

Hope that helps.
 

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the issue, as i understand it, is that the connecting rods are sintered metal and the pistons and crank are cast. very good items for your basic engine and when adding a little more HP. As with most engines, when you start adding a lot more power, you have to upgrade the internals AND EXTERNALS (clutch, trans, axles, sub-frame connectors, etc.) to handle it.

there are guys getting over 1000HP with that engine, but obviously there's a lot of upgrading to the entire vehicle that has to happen to handle that. Bottom line is that you can take that engine, attach some bolt-ons and have a very fun playtoy. But, when you reach that 500+ crank HP, it starts to get real expensive real quick.

The nice part is that you can put the bolt-ons on now and reuse them when/if you get new internals.

My path was to add most of the engine bolt-ons, then do the rest of the drivetrain, suspension and cosmetics (this is where i am now) and THEN build a fire-breathing powerplant.

Good luck!
 

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I could be wrong, but I doubt there are many motors with stock internals making 600 rwph. The biggest problem with the 4.6 is that it has a fairly small 3.55" bore. Because of this the valve are partially shrouded. Patriot had a stage 3 head with bigger valves but you had to bore the cylinder out .020" to use it. Naturally aspirated power is pretty much limited to around 320-330 rwhp. Yes, I've seen the dyno of a 425 rwhp 2v n/a monster. It ran e85 fuel through a carburator, had 13.8 compression ratio and spun to 8000 rpms.

This is why most people go FI. Bolting on a supercharger (or turbo) to an otherwise stock motor can get you to 400 rwhp fairly easy. For daily drivers most tuners recommend only 380 rwhp but most on the forum say 400 rwhp. Yes, there are motors with stock internals running 450 rwhp but they have other supporting mod (cams, exhaust, ect.) and are tuned by world class tuners. Several members have tried to go above 400 rwhp on boost alone with disasterous results.

Getting to 400-425 (with cams, etc) is fairly easy. Anything above that get harder and more expensive. The motor has to be rebuild with forged rods, pistons, and crank. The entire fuel system has to be upgraded as well as the drive train and suspension. The '03/04 Cobra's can make awesome power because they come from the factory with forged internals.
 

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Your looking at a 1100-1400hp limit on 2v's (at the motor) on the stock from the factory block with all aftermarket goodies as mentioned above.
Sorry but all the parts mentioned above will NOT be safe for up to 1400hp...ask me how I know lol.
 

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few of you older guys (like me :D) may remember the days when hitting 1HP per cubic inch was pushing it. we all made it a point to start with monster motors, such as 396, 400, 454, etc. just so we could make 400 to 500HP and still be able to drive it on the street. 500HP from a 281ci engine meant you had to know how to really dial it in just to make it idle. Not to mention, you we're dumping fuel in like niagra falls and it had a life of about 30k miles.

now, we know 4+HP per ci is possible and still streetable (with enough money, of course). 1 to 2HP/ci is even the norm!

My point is that the 4.6L engine is a great engine. some of them may start with only "good" internals (still not bad or weak!), but you can purchase forged parts, fuel injection and forced induction at very reasonable costs and make an enormous amount of horsepower, get good mileage and have it live for a very long time (even meet emission laws too :rolleyes:).

sorry for ranting, but IMHO with the 4.6L, you're starting with one of the most solid and plentiful powerplants Ford has ever built. (This is from a guy who started restoring/building early Mustang convertibles with my dad 30+ years ago!) Others also make good motors, but i can tell you, this one is a winner! :eek:

ok, i'm done now...
 

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few of you older guys (like me :D) may remember the days when hitting 1HP per cubic inch was pushing it. we all made it a point to start with monster motors, such as 396, 400, 454, etc. just so we could make 400 to 500HP and still be able to drive it on the street. 500HP from a 281ci engine meant you had to know how to really dial it in just to make it idle. Not to mention, you we're dumping fuel in like niagra falls and it had a life of about 30k miles.

now, we know 4+HP per ci is possible and still streetable (with enough money, of course). 1 to 2HP/ci is even the norm!

My point is that the 4.6L engine is a great engine. some of them may start with only "good" internals (still not bad or weak!), but you can purchase forged parts, fuel injection and forced induction at very reasonable costs and make an enormous amount of horsepower, get good mileage and have it live for a very long time (even meet emission laws too :rolleyes:).

sorry for ranting, but IMHO with the 4.6L, you're starting with one of the most solid and plentiful powerplants Ford has ever built. (This is from a guy who started restoring/building early Mustang convertibles with my dad 30+ years ago!) Others also make good motors, but i can tell you, this one is a winner! :eek:

ok, i'm done now...
True, but I think the reason the 4.6L is much maligned is because you can wring so much power out of it, that it's easy to get yourself in a position to destroy it. It's kind of a double edged sword.

I cut my teeth on the older (and much much simpler) carbureted pushrod engines that even though it would take a ton to get there, they could hold 500-600hp with stock components. Of course I never built one close to it's limits.

This all comes back to engineering. New engines are designed for a fixed "stock" hp rating. With more sophisticated modeling tools, the engineers can design closer to this, and have a smaller margin, saving cost in the process. Awesome for an engineer to get his black belt 6sig certification, but sh*tty when you go to build the engine. This will only get worse as they seek to wring more and more out of smaller engines. On the other hand without those tools, they had to rely on massive factors of safety. Since they couldn't run FEA on those old motors, they built the hell out of them just to be safe.
 

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:drink
few of you older guys (like me :D) may remember the days when hitting 1HP per cubic inch was pushing it. we all made it a point to start with monster motors, such as 396, 400, 454, etc. just so we could make 400 to 500HP and still be able to drive it on the street. 500HP from a 281ci engine meant you had to know how to really dial it in just to make it idle. Not to mention, you we're dumping fuel in like niagra falls and it had a life of about 30k miles.

now, we know 4+HP per ci is possible and still streetable (with enough money, of course). 1 to 2HP/ci is even the norm!

My point is that the 4.6L engine is a great engine. some of them may start with only "good" internals (still not bad or weak!), but you can purchase forged parts, fuel injection and forced induction at very reasonable costs and make an enormous amount of horsepower, get good mileage and have it live for a very long time (even meet emission laws too :rolleyes:).

sorry for ranting, but IMHO with the 4.6L, you're starting with one of the most solid and plentiful powerplants Ford has ever built. (This is from a guy who started restoring/building early Mustang convertibles with my dad 30+ years ago!) Others also make good motors, but i can tell you, this one is a winner! :eek:

ok, i'm done now...
:drink
Some of these young'uns don't realize how good they have it! I remember when 1HP/CuIn was the magic goal. If our 4.6 2V PI was rated the same as the old engines it would be about 300hp. I estimate the old "K" code 289 would probably be rated around 220hp SAE Net. I remember when ported heads, long duration cam, 11:1 compression, headers & single plane intake with a big Holley made for a 320HP (@crank) smallblock. You got about 10MPG, idled at 1200 RPM, had no vacuum to run accessories and couldn't run A/C in town without overheating. 450-600 CRANK HP was hard to achieve and almost impossible to drive on the street. However, I still prefer a healthy FE block!
 

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:drink
Some of these young'uns don't realize how good they have it! I remember when 1HP/CuIn was the magic goal. If our 4.6 2V PI was rated the same as the old engines it would be about 300hp. I estimate the old "K" code 289 would probably be rated around 220hp SAE Net. I remember when ported heads, long duration cam, 11:1 compression, headers & single plane intake with a big Holley made for a 320HP (@crank) smallblock. You got about 10MPG, idled at 1200 RPM, had no vacuum to run accessories and couldn't run A/C in town without overheating. 450-600 CRANK HP was hard to achieve and almost impossible to drive on the street. However, I still prefer a healthy FE block![/QUOTE]

that was the underlying message...
life is good today when it comes to making hp. you can hit almost anything you want AND it's streetable. i see a twin turbo fire breather in my future, but i have to get kid through college first. another reality many have not had to deal with as of yet... :D
 

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Lately it seems like everyone thinks "SOHC" is synonymous with weak, and "DOHC" translate to top fuel dragster-type power. You can have 10 camshafts for all it matters, it won't make the internals stronger, or weaker.
Correct, however....the reason a 2V handles less than a 3V, and 3V less than 4V....assuming same material internals...is due to efficiency.

The better an engine flows, the easier it is on parts. The easier it is on parts, the more power it can make without breaking.

This is why you see select LS engines...and even the Coyote...handling AMAZING power, considering the material of the internals. 600rwhp on an LS3 is reliable to an extent...and the pistons and rods are not much different than stock Modular internals, in material.
 

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My point is that the 4.6L engine is a great engine. some of them may start with only "good" internals (still not bad or weak!), but you can purchase forged parts, fuel injection and forced induction at very reasonable costs and make an enormous amount of horsepower, get good mileage and have it live for a very long time (even meet emission laws too :rolleyes:).

sorry for ranting, but IMHO with the 4.6L, you're starting with one of the most solid and plentiful powerplants Ford has ever built. (This is from a guy who started restoring/building early Mustang convertibles with my dad 30+ years ago!) Others also make good motors, but i can tell you, this one is a winner! :eek:

ok, i'm done now...
Indeed. I've been wondering about throwing a 4.6 in my Z28. Then a Camaro would sound good. :eek:

This is why you see select LS engines...and even the Coyote...handling AMAZING power, considering the material of the internals. 600rwhp on an LS3 is reliable to an extent...and the pistons and rods are not much different than stock Modular internals, in material.
That's just a matter of flow still, not the valvetrain style. You went from single cam OHV valve engines to the Coyote. MMR ported Trick Flow heads, problem solved. But most would not consider that, because it's just a huge waste of time to have the heads off, and not build up the internals.
 

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I've got a little old school in me as well. Everyone wants to compare the 4.6 to the LSx motor. I'm not familiar with the LS3 motor but if it makes 600 rwhp it probably has forged internals like the Terminator.

I ran a 426 wedge for a while in a 66 Dodge. After I tore it up I ran 440. Yes, with headers, intake, dual point Mallory igniton, 850 Holley double pumper, and a few other things they could get close to the one horsepower per cube goal (estimated). But, if you wanted to make more power you needed 12:1 compression ratio and other things. Those motors didn't come stock that way. Oh... that was also back in the gross horsepower days and it was also horsepower at the block not at the wheels. My 440 with all of the above mods ran around 13.x @ around 116 mph. My 281 Mustang ran 13.0 @111 mph with no traction in first. But I will tell you the torque of those big 4.25" pistons was awesome. A centrifugal supercharged motor with 3.55" pistons just doesn't feel the same. It's more of a steady, increasing harder push instead the throw you back in the seat kind of a push.

I've read where guys who have refurbished the old muscle car are a little unhappy when they put them on a chassis dyno. The old big blocks typically make around 300-330 rwhp.
 

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I have a '62 Galaxie sedan that I'm building a 421 FE block for. It's a .060+ 390 block w/410 crank, ported early heads, 10.5:1, lumpy cam, factory tripower intake & cast iron headers. I figure if I can put down around 325rwhp and run in the 13's, I will consider it good. It will be finicky to drive, require 93 Octane minimum, make 8 MPG and be a bitch to tune with 3 carbs. Probably break plenty of parts as well, but it should have plenty of torque....:yes
 
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