Modded Mustang Forums banner

21 - 40 of 885 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
728 Posts
I also wanted to go ahead and change the cam while the motor was on the stand.... In the end, I decided to stick with the thumpr cam... i ordered matching comp cams pushrods, lifters, and timing chains.

COMP CAMS THUMPR CAMSHAFT 35-600-4
COMP CAMS HI ENERGY HYD. LIFTERS
COMP CAMS FORD 351W MAGNUM TIMING CHAIN SET
COMP CAMS HI-TECH PUSHRODS
Man I love all the detail in your write ups. I am not nit picking I am a newb so I have to ask, you are going with a more aggressive cam yet you are not upgrading the springs, or are you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
728 Posts
Once I got the radiator hooked, I was able to really run the motor some, and I realize I was severely fuel limited, so i ordered a dual plane intake and a 750CFM 4 barrel, pictured below.
Thank you, like god intended, LOL, otherwise why go through all that effort with a 351.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,351 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
The reason I did not mess with the springs, valves or rockers to accomodate the cam is because I don't plan on keeping the heads for more than a year. As soon as the car is running and looking good, my WAF (Wife Approval Factor) will increase and I'll be able to pick up a set of AFR or twisted wedge heads.

Timing is set about 12 degrees advance. It is hard to tell for sure because my timing marks are covered up. I need to pickup some bolt on marks so I can set it exact, but at this point I'm more worried about getting it driving well enough to run up to Burger King than getting ready for serious action.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,351 Posts
Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Suspension and brakes

When I bought the car it was in the middle of a Granada swap. The rear-end, spindles, and brakes were already in place, but none of the brake lines were tied in. Since the car had been sitting for at least five years since any work had been done on it, I decided I should go through the brakes before I piped it all up. I had the drums and rotors turned, bought new calipers, pads, shoes, and hardware kits for the drums. No real surprises as I went through the brakes other than the fact that the rear drums were so rusted up I had to use an oxy-acetylene torch to get them off. I painted all of the caliber and drum hardware with rust eating paint, then sprayed the calipers with red caliper paint. I wish I had taken a bunch of pictures, but I did all this before I thought about making a thread.

Next I bought a master cylinder (1993 cobra, disks up front, drums in rear, Thanks MustangOne), and ran brand new lines from the master cylinder to the splitter (transferred from the Granada btw), and then spliced from the splitter into the existing brake lines. I had really wanted to run new lines from the splitter to all four corners, but at this particular point in my project, I didn't have time. I fully expect to run new lines sometimes in the fall. On the bottom end I had to slap on a set of Granada swap brake line adapters from mustangs plus:

Mustang Parts from Mustangs Plus :: Brakes :: Brake Lines :: 1965-73 Granada/Monarch Hard Line Adapter Kit

I bled the brakes, pushed it out the garage, jumped in, smashed the brakes, and viola!! stoppage, it was quite satisfying. What was not satisfying was pushing that thing back in the garage by myself. I suppose it could have been worse though, at this point the engine was still not in the car. Pushing that thing with the heavy 351w in it is not fun.

I guess when the previous owner swapped the spindles and brakes, they also swapped in the springs from the Granada, because even with the 351w in it, which is waaaaaaay heavier than the i6 that was in the car, and quite a bit heavier than a 289, the front end was still sitting very very high.



Thats not really the best angle to show it, but that is the best picture I have. For reference, that is a five gallon gas jug sitting under the front end with plenty of room to spare. Since the WAF was pretty low at this point, I opted to try cutting the springs to lower it down, with the intention of buying new ones down the road. I pulled the fenders off so that I could measure my springs compressed, to make sure that I did not cut too much off. I had decided I wanted to drop about 2" from where I was, this should give me about 1" of clearance above my tires. This equated to about 2.5 coils being cut off.

My first attempt at removing the springs did not go so well. I attempted to use a set of spring compressors that I already had at home, which consisted of two separate pieces that went on the outside of the spring, one on each side. I was never able to get them to compress at the same rate so that they would not walk. After about five turns on each one, the compressors would start moving towards the middle of the spring, which resulted in a nice banana shaped spring. Since I like my hands and fingers attached to my body, I elected to go rent a better spring compressor from Advanced. I rented one of the units that goes inside the spring as a single contraption. While this was safer, it was also a PITA, because it required me to remove my export brace to wiggle it inside the spring from above. Also, it should be noted that these devices are orientation specific, if you put it in upside down it will not work. I tried putting it in upside down so I could stick a socket on an extension down into the spring, and things got really jacked up, and I spent an hour trying to wiggle it all out. PITA getting it in or not, it was very efficient at getting the spring out once I had it in place.

That being said, I wonder if it would have been much easier to leave the shock in place (so the spring can't fly off) and cut the spring in the car, then remove the shock and pull the excess spring out. If anyone has ever tried that, I would be interested to know how it worked out.

After I cut both springs and put them back in, I reassembled the fenders and tires, and dropped her down to admire my handy work. And while I really admired it, I had a sense of dread:



You see that stance looks really awesome to me, but it's not good for much other than drag racing, because if i turn my tires, I'm going to shred them on my fenders :-(

Still not wanting to waste and WAF points on springs, I attmepted to raise it back up using some aluminum riser blocks from AutoZone:



In fact, I put two sets (total of 4) on each side. This gave me something more acceptable:



However, I wasn't real comfortable riding around on a set of springs that had two inches of spring blocked out of it, so I broke down and got a set of 1" lowering 620lb springs:



Unfortunately I have neglected to take a picture of the stance with the new springs in. I can say that it is about 1/2" - 1" Higher than the stance was with the aluminum blocks in the old springs.

I think my leaf springs are pretty worn, because the back is sitting low, and if anyone sits in the passenger seat, the back tires start to rub. I plan on getting a leaf spring kit as soon ad I get some WAF points. But for now the plan is to install a set of air shocks this weekend to pickup the backend by an 1" - 1.5"

Last thing to make a note of here, after I was done with all the spring and shock work, I went to put my export brace back on, only to find that the car had sagged in the two weeks the export brace was off. I tried spreading it back apart using a bottle jack and 4x4, but that was really just an aggravating experience with zero chance of success. I was about to head off to rent a port-a-power (tool made for spreading things) when my grandfather suggested we jack the car up in the middle (under the radiator support) and see if the weight of the car would spread the towers back out and allow the brace to go back on. Turns out this worked quite well and the export brace went back on with minimal effort.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,351 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Odds and Ends

Okay, so you can probably tell this thread is not in chronological order, I've sort of done it by section. However these pics of the exhaust going in are neither in the right section, or in chronological order, I just forgot to include them earlier.





At this point, the thread is almost up to date. I have another thread here covering my issues with the steering:

http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/classic-mustangs/214161-need-advice-steering-options.html

I plan to put a walk through of the steering install in this thread, and then report the results back to both threads.

I am currently chasing down wiring issues (I have one brake light that works, and that is about it, nothing else seems to work) and getting ready to bolt the front end up.

Once I bolt the front end up, I plan to wrap the fenders, hood, headlight buckets, and front fascia with a flat white vinyl wrap. I wrapped the dual exhaust rear valence in the flat white, and it seems to match the paint that is already on the car very well. We will see how it looks once I do a large panel. If it looks good enough I will probably leave it like that for about a year to see if I really like the flat white. After I have decided exactly what paint I want long term, I will have the shelby side scoops put on and have the whole car painted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
728 Posts
It is hard to tell it there, but there is still a knocking from the engine that you couldn't hear when there were no mufflers. I think it is due to the fact that I lost two of the exhaust valve lashing caps when I was lapping the valves. I couldn't find any locally, so I ordered some today. Hopefully when they come in that will solve my problem. If not I will have to look for a stuck valve or partially collapsed lifter.
I'm sure you installed those, did it take care of the knocking?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,351 Posts
Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
Okay, the valve lashes came in yesterday:



For those of you who have never seen these things, the exhaust valve stems on some older fords are smaller then the intake valve stem, just on the very tip. You have to put these valve lashes in tighten things up. They were designed this way, I'm just not sure why. At least I'm not sure why you need them on the exhaust side and not the intake.

Anyway, put 4 new lashes on the passenger side, installed all the rocker assemblies with some thread locker red:



And buttoned her back up.



At first I had thought I had made good progress towards fixing my knock. When I first started her up, she sounded pretty good. But after 30 - 45 seconds, i started hearing the knock again. After 2-3 minutes, it had gotten incredibly loud, sounded like a shoe in a dryer. This is the same thing I was experiencing last week when I decided to order the lashes. Sounds good when cold, gets worse as it get hot, gets faster if you rev the engine up, and goes away completely if the car is under any kind of load. It got so bad at one point that I thought for sure I must have dropped a rod cap into my oil pan, and that it got louder as the oil got hot and thinned out.

So I actually pulled my tubular crossmember and tried to get the oil pan off (I failed miserably due to the steering linkage). But I was able to get the oil pan off far enough to peek inside and see that there are no rod caps rolling around in there.

Now don't freak out that I put my oil pan back on using an old gasket and main seal, I fully intend to replace both next weekend when I rip the steering out to put in the rack and pinion setup.

But back to my knocking noise, I'm pretty stumped. I even pulled the plug wires one at a time to see if one would stop the noise and none do. Could I be looking at a collapsed lifter? Could it be an exhaust valve not seating and getting back pressure? I have a compression tester, would a compression test tell me which cylinder is the culprit? The thing that preplexes me the most is that it goes away if I put the motor under any load at all. I thought it might be a loose flywheel, but it still makes the noise in idle while in gear, like if your coasting down a hill, so it takes more than just having the clutch in to stop the noise, it needs a load. Forgive my ignorance, this is my first pushrod motor :-D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
728 Posts
here's a tip, does the engine wobble more than normal?

if it wobbles then it could be a spun out bearing, flywheel, balancer, etc something in the rotating assembly, I still point the finger at the new cam and old bearings and not matching the old springs, so it may be a lot of work but I would pop the old cam back in there, (for now anyways, until you get 'em new heads)

if the engine sits relatively still then we go checking a different route, did you torque the rockers to spec, what foot pounds? how about the heads? do you have a bent push rod, a stuck lifter would make a tapping sound, valve chatter type a thing

warm up the engine before checking compression, though poor compression would not make an engine sound like a shoe in a dryer in my opinion

Do the long screw driver, one end to the block, the other end to your ear stethoscope trick and see if you can hone in on the area where it is coming from. Or listen to it from the driver side, then listen to it from the passenger side, stand in front of the engine, ok, lay under the MFer, put your hand against the exhaust pipes, do both of them have the same pulse / pressure, same amount of smoke coming out?

FYI, I got rid of my engine noise simply by changing oil just about 2 months ago, after god only knows what Jiffy Lube put in there - yeah I know, but I took it in there cuase we were in a hurry

hope you get it figured out
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,351 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
I don't if the engine wobbles excessively or not, because I don't know what normal would be. My last car was a 2006 325i, which had an inline motor, zero wobble. I will say this, the clearance between the headers and shock towers is so tight, that it collects dust in the gap, and I don't see the headers knocking the shock towers, so I'm going to guess that wobble is acceptable.

It could be the springs, but I'm a bit skepticle of that because this is a new problem. I know for a fact I did not have this problem on the way home from the muffler shop, or to/from big 10. I would think that if it was springs, it would have been this way from the time I put the motor together.

I ran the motor with the valve covers off today, and the valves and rockers sound normal, and the sound is definitely coming from deeper in the motor. Using the long screw driver trick it really sounds like it is coming from the oil pan/flywheel area.

Could I have a loose rod cap that is causing the crank to slap every time it comes up? Perhaps the oil pan has been slightly depressed (on the back end) and a crank lobe is hitting the oil pan?

Thanks for the advice guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,351 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
One more thing I forgot to mention. I picked up a $15 tach from harbor freight and hooked it up, and I was idling way too high (1800 RPM), so I adjusted the timing a little bit to get it down around 1000 RPM. When I did this, the knock went away at idle. Revving the motor, it seems that the knock comes in around 1200 RPM pretty consistently. So perhaps my earlier comments about the knock going away under load are not quite true, maybe putting it under a load was just dropping the revs low enough for the knock to go away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
890 Posts
If it were something along the lines of the crank hitting the pan, then it would not go away at low revs, it would just be less audible/further between each noise.

I'd take a look at your cam and lifters, and while you're at it put in the old cam like gregski said. Yeah it'd be a pitb, but at least you don't have to pull the motor to work on it (I'm assuming you would pull it to work on the bottom end).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
728 Posts
OK, I think you are going about it the right way, the tach was smart, but keep in mind a Harbor Freight tach is a Harbor Freight tach (and I shop at HF all the time so I am not knocking them too much) so it may not be 100% accurate, hook it up to another car that has a tach to see how accurate it is

here's another thing to try, first what type of motor oil are you running? I would suggest changing the oil and the oil filter for 5W-30 of the cheapest stuff you can find, cause you will only use it as a test, so drain the oil, change the filter and run the car, do not use synthetic, do not use any snake oil like Lucas, or put Seafoam in your engine (time and place for everything, and this is not the time for those products) speaking of oil, what if the oil pump is bad and it does one thing when cold, and another when warmed up, or when spinning faster, it could be starving your engine, you could swap it out for $50 bucks and eliminate that question

also check your pressure plate that thing can make a rattling noise after things warm up, and finally shoot another video/audio of it and let us hear it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,351 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
Thanks for all the advice guys.

I put in a fresh batch of 20-50 oil this morning. My reasoning for going with the thick oil is that it ran better when cold, and cold oil is thick oil.

I will shoot a video and post it for you guys in the morning.


Since I am tearing off the bottom end next weekend, I think I will wait and see if I see anything obvious there before I rip the cam out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,351 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
Okay guys, thanks for all the help. It's Easter weekend and I don't have much time to work on it, so not a whole lot of updates. I tried to make a video this morning, but the microphone on the iphone leaves alot to be desired, and I didn't think the video was worth uploading. My dad is in town for the holiday, and he seems to be thinking along the same lines as you guys. He thinks the valves are slapping in their seats due to weak springs.

So here is the plan, next weekend I will rip all the steering out for the rack and pinion conversion. While I have it out, I will pull the oil pan (need to replace rear main seal anyway), check the torque on all the rod and crank caps. I will also check to make sure there is no play in the oil pump shaft that could be tapping a crank lobe.

If that does not solve my problem (which I am suspecting it will not) then I will address the spring/cam issue.

I'm debating on wether I want to swap cams, or swap valve springs. It seems like about the same amount of work to do either. I am leaning towards changing the springs, because if I have a spring that has somehow gotten weak, there is a small chance it might not be stiff enough for the stock cam either.

If I decide to go with new springs, could you guys recommend a set that will not break the bank?

Thanks
 
21 - 40 of 885 Posts
Top