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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I am having the biggest damn problem trying to degree these cams I have, I keep coming out with the same numbers though... I end up with the RH 16 BTDC 96 ATDC and the LH 29 BTDC and 114 ATDC

so I'm supposed to add the two together and then divide by 2 and I end up with like 16+96=112/2=56?? 29+114= 143/2 = 71.5??

I emailed VT cams and he said he was 99.99% sure it wasn't the cams so I took it all apart again and redid the timing and piston stop for tdc and all and the LH just came out 30.5 BTDC and 114 ATDC?? so What could it be? I know it's not a tooth off.... I made sure the degree wheel was centered for the piston stop, but when I put the degree wheel to tdc (0 degrees) the key on the crankshaft isn't near the tdc mark where the timing cover says it's supposed to be it's more around 12 o'clock? any suggestions?? is it supposed to be off like that or am I doing something wrong? also I read on the internet that some people add 180 into the degrees before they divide them by two but it's still off by plenty so any help would be great!!
 

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ajm would be the man you need to PM. He seems to be a champ at degreeing and timing these things.
 

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What are you using for cam gears ? If using stock. You do know that you will need to open up the key way a bit to allow for adjustability.

Cause 99% of the time it's the cam gears that are off
 

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Limited hit the nail on the head or whatever that saying is. The numbers youre throwing up dont seem like numbers based off of .050 before and after max lift. Are you sure youre doing the intake center line/ICL method? You do have the equation right though.

For the most part just find true tdc and 0 the degree wheel, set your dial indicator up on #1 with a COLLAPSED or solid lifter so there is no play, Turn to .050 before max lift and write down the number the degree wheel pointer is pointing to, turn to .050 after maxlift and record that number. Add the two and divide by 2, thats your ICL. Repeat the process on cylinder 6.

I just reread what you posted. Lining up the notch in the pulley with the TDC mark then zeroing the degree wheel isnt too accruate for what youre needing. Get a TDC stop, install it in the number 1 plug hole, set your degree wheel to 0 and turn it all the way to the left until the piston hits the stop, record that number, turn all the way to the right until it stops and record that number, split the difference, turn the wheel to that point, 0 the wheel, then try again. You should have equal numbers left to right, For example you turn it all the way to the right the piston should stop on 100* (random number) you turn it all the way to the left it should stop on 100*.

If you were off by a tooth youd know it. Youd be something like 8* off +/- *IF* I remember correctly. Its been over a year since I figured out how many degrees each tooth is = to.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Limited hit the nail on the head or whatever that saying is. The numbers youre throwing up dont seem like numbers based off of .050 before and after max lift. Are you sure youre doing the intake center line/ICL method? You do have the equation right though.

For the most part just find true tdc and 0 the degree wheel, set your dial indicator up on #1 with a COLLAPSED or solid lifter so there is no play, Turn to .050 before max lift and write down the number the degree wheel pointer is pointing to, turn to .050 after maxlift and record that number. Add the two and divide by 2, thats your ICL. Repeat the process on cylinder 6.

I just reread what you posted. Lining up the notch in the pulley with the TDC mark then zeroing the degree wheel isnt too accruate for what youre needing. Get a TDC stop, install it in the number 1 plug hole, set your degree wheel to 0 and turn it all the way to the left until the piston hits the stop, record that number, turn all the way to the right until it stops and record that number, split the difference, turn the wheel to that point, 0 the wheel, then try again. You should have equal numbers left to right, For example you turn it all the way to the right the piston should stop on 100* (random number) you turn it all the way to the left it should stop on 100*.

If you were off by a tooth youd know it. Youd be something like 8* off +/- *IF* I remember correctly. Its been over a year since I figured out how many degrees each tooth is = to.

I did use a piston stop, Tell me if I'm doing something wrong...

I put the crank at tdc then put the degree wheel at 0 on the pointer and then rotated the crank counterclockwise about 20 degrees, put in the piston stop and screwed down the piston stop till it hit the piston, rotated it counterclockwise till it hits the piston stop record the number and then clockwise till it hits the piston, subtract those numbers then divide the answer by 2. Then moved the pointer to the outcome. rotated it counterclockwise then clockwise to see if it was hitting the same number on both impacts and it does. Then I took the piston stop out, loosened up the crank bolt moved the degree wheel to 0* then tightened it up, put the mmr solid lifter in the #6 intake and then folllower on rotate the crank till I find max lift (where it stays for a few rotations then goes the opposite direction with the lobe faced down) ex: .056" subtract .050" which is .006" so the next full rotation I count up to five turns of the dial indicator then when it hits .006" I stop and record the number then it goes to .056" then backwards to .006" and record the number. Added the two numbers and divided them by 2.


I figured out why I was getting such low numbers the first time - I wasn't hitting the piston stop counterclockwise, it has a sticky point around 3 o'clock of the keyway of the crank but I know I'm hitting the piston stop now...

I'm still having a problem though I'm coming out with 138.5* as the outcome... man I dunno what to do I guess I can keep trying wtf man... what could cause the ICL to be 23.5 degrees off if I have everything right?
 

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Youve got the right idea. Double check/try again to see if your numbers are off again incase you did make a mistake. If it were that far advanced youd prolly be having some ptv clearance issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I redid everything again and came out with 138 degrees again!! wtf could a cam possibly be off that much?

Should I file the cam gear keyway or try to send the cams back or what??
 

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not sure of the way i read you doing it. that might be a more accurate centerline, but most cam cards give the theoritical(sp?) centerline. you need to put cam on max lift(valve down) then rotate engine counter clockwise to .100 before max lift, then rotate it clockwise to .050 before max lift(just a few taps on rotating tool) write this number down. then rotate clockwise till .050 past max lift and write this number down. add the two and divide by two
 

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You have to grind down the keyway to get the cams in time with what the cam card says... BUT I have never seen stock gears out that bad... Most I ever have seen is about 10 degrees, not 25+....

I also have always degreed mine with the intake centerline method like limited just posted. where you find max lift, and then .050" before max lift and after max lift... Not til it goes around 5 times... try it that way.
 

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some good info in this thread....subscribed :popcorn
 

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Heh, you think I should just throw VT's stage 3 cams in there without degreeing? lol
I never said that.

I also never said it wasn't a good idea to degree cams. There's always power to be had if degreeing them and helps to insure there's no PTV.


The first time I put in my little s292 cams I didn't even take the timing cover off etc lol, Just dropped them in using the AFM cam retention tool. It went from 431 to 515 with a retune. That was with stock heads, intake, and 12 psi.
 
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