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He of Long Wind
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Discussion Starter #21
It's no longer the Democratic Party. They're full blown Socialists.

I assume once they infiltrate and get control of the Republican party, one progressive RINO at a time, the R's will become the Socialists and the D's will become the Communists.

It won't be too long....
Amen!

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years." This quote is attributed to Alexander Fraser Tytler. In 1814, John Adams said "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."

I'm with you. We're just about there.
 

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7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
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5,055 Posts
We seem to be ignoring the #1 leading cause of corruption in democracy...

Capitalism.
Capitalism has nothing to do with it. :no

Capitalism is just an economic system that mostly consists of private ownership and free trade.

That said...

If you can't trust millions of individuals with an economic system, how the **** can you trust a minority of millionaire and billionaire political ruling class elites all walled off in their palace in Washington D.C., who you can't get any accountability, transparency, justice, etc., out of, who are above the law?

At least the private sector has to follow the laws and regulations, or be held accountable.

We can't say that about the political elites.

They can't even balance a budget. Our national debt is working toward $19 trillion. We're over 100 trillion in total debt. All while the leftist politicians lie to the people and make it seem like taking 90% of the top 1% of earners income will somehow make a difference with our financial problems.

Sorry to inform you, but all the wealth of the top 1% won't fix ****. It’s a fantasy to imagine that raising taxes on the rich will solve our deficit problem.

If the IRS grabbed 100 percent of income over $1 million, the take would be just $616 billion.

Our debt would continue to explode because Govt is too busy blowing our tax money, giving it away globally to fund Govt interests in other nations, and making promises to buy votes on credit with interest here at home.

Total Government Spending in the United States

Federal Gross Spending $4.0 trillion
Intergovernmental $-0.7 trillion
State Direct Spending $1.6 trillion
Local Direct Spending $1.6 trillion
_________________________________________
Total Spending $6.5 trillion

US Government Current Spending History with Charts - a www.usgovernmentspending.com briefing


A vote for a democratic socialist is a vote to be a classless slave in an indebted nation. That's it in a nut shell. Well, unless you're an athlete, movie star, politician or a part of the Govt cronies and oligarchs.

You have the leftist mindset of laying blame where it doesn't belong (Capitalism). That's just the class warfare mongering leftist socialists and communists way of getting people to vote for them.

Much like Dems blame murder on the object used instead of the person who committed the crime, essentially wanting to collectively revoke the rights of everyone for what the minority of criminals do.

It is a few individuals on the top, that are immoral, unethical and motivated by sheer greed that cause the problems we have with a small percentage in our mixed economy. We can fix that in the education system and with a few changes in the law.
 

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Pawsitively sexy
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lmfao...

Capitalism has something to do with it. You even said it yourself, John. You just don't realize it.

---------- Post added at 01:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 AM ----------

We can fix that in the education system and with a few changes in the law.
And this is the biggest joke of all.

Enlighten us, John. What laws would you change? What curriculum would you present that would curb greed? I'm all ears, bud.
 

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7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
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5,055 Posts
lmfao...

Capitalism has something to do with it. You even said it yourself, John. You just don't realize it.
Let's not turn this in to the argument you had with everyone over the definition of Capitalism v/s State-Capitalism. :no You'll lose. :yes

It's like blaming cars for DUI accidents.
 

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Pawsitively sexy
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We have a millionaire and billionaire ruling class, but Capitalism has nothing to do with that? LOL!

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by lose. I'm sorry that the people of this site willfully ignore accepted definitions to pander to their own personal ideals. I blame the strong propaganda this country has shoved down the throats of children for decades.

But don't dodge the questions, John. According to you a few new laws and some educational changes will solve corruption. Please, let's hear all about this plan.
 

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7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
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1. We have a millionaire and billionaire ruling class, but Capitalism has nothing to do with that? LOL!

2. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by lose. I'm sorry that the people of this site willfully ignore accepted definitions to pander to their own personal ideals. I blame the strong propaganda this country has shoved down the throats of children for decades.

3. But don't dodge the questions, John. According to you a few new laws and some educational changes will solve corruption. Please, let's hear all about this plan.
1. I have no problem with the political elites who earn wealth (legally) by working and earning in the private sector, not by insider trading type tactics and cronyism. I just point out their wealth for you socialists and communists because you all claim to hate obscene profits and personal wealth so much, yet you ignore the political ruling class elites getting filthy rich in Washington as career politicians.

That's an area I want to cut the pay and the profits out. Those are positions for public servants. They should balance the budgets, pay the bills, and get their asses back home to work real jobs and pay taxes like us on regular wages. Sitting up there making more laws and regulations for us to live under, and trying to revoke out rights while making $180k a year and millions on insider trading is a bunch of bullshit. We need to reverse it and start making laws and regulations for politicians to follow. Like if you don't uphold your oath of office to protect and defend the constitution, you're automatically kicked out. :yes

2. Sorry, the consensus is 99% agree Eric Foxwell is wrong on the differences in Capitalism and State-Capitalism. The debate is over.

3. You first. Tell me what's so bad and wrong with Capitalism. We'll go from there.
 

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Pawsitively sexy
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1. I have no problem with the political elites who earn wealth (legally) by working and earning in the private sector, not by insider trading type tactics and cronyism. I just point out their wealth for you socialists and communists because you all claim to hate obscene profits and personal wealth so much, yet you ignore the political ruling class elites getting filthy rich in Washington as career politicians.

That's an area I want to cut the pay and the profits out. Those are positions for public servants. They should balance the budgets, pay the bills, and get their asses back home to work real jobs and pay taxes like us on regular wages. Sitting up there making more laws and regulations for us to live under, and trying to revoke out rights while making $180k a year and millions on insider trading is a bunch of bullshit. We need to reverse it and start making laws and regulations for politicians to follow. Like if you don't uphold your oath of office to protect and defend the constitution, you're automatically kicked out. :yes
So what you're saying is you're okay with bribery so long as you're the person doing the bribing and not the one taking the money?

You're also ignoring that most of our congressmen are rich well before they take office. It's a rich man's game. Of course their rich buddies who help spend billions on elections every season want some kickbacks. That's how it works right? Just businesses looking out for the profit margin. Cheaper to donate then be taxed like the rest of us.

2. Sorry, the consensus is 99% agree Eric Foxwell is wrong on the differences in Capitalism and State-Capitalism. The debate is over.
Yup, you and the other Ayn Rand worshipers keep telling yourself that State Capitalism is socialism and not capitalism. I'll continue to laugh at how ridiculous that is.

3. You first. Tell me what's so bad and wrong with Capitalism. We'll go from there.
Certainly, but you came in here and made it sound so easy to fix what's wrong. A few laws here, some updated education there. Come on, man. You can't say this dumbass **** and not expect me to call you out on your bullshit. You give me your solutions and I'll give you mine.
 

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7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
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So what you're saying is you're okay with bribery so long as you're the person doing the bribing and not the one taking the money?
I have no idea WTF your talking about here. Nowhere did I imply that. :no

You're also ignoring that most of our congressmen are rich well before they take office.
I said I didn't have a problem with them making their money legally and basically against them making their money off insider trading and cronyism.

It's a rich man's game. Of course their rich buddies who help spend billions on elections every season want some kickbacks. That's how it works right? Just businesses looking out for the profit margin. Cheaper to donate then be taxed like the rest of us.
I don't deny its a rich mans game to get elected.

You're leaving out the big labor unions, teachers unions, socialists and communist organizations that bankroll the leftists.

Then, there are those businesses that are pro-immigration reform so they can undercut American wages with lower paid immigrant workers, so they bank roll politicians that pander to the foreign workers, immigrants (legal, illegals, etc). Then there are those pro-global warming businesses because they get filthy rich off the green economy, so they bank-roll the Warming Alarmists. Etc....

It goes both ways... Both sides get their share of blame here.

Yup, you and the other Ayn Rand worshipers keep telling yourself that State Capitalism is socialism and not capitalism. I'll continue to laugh at how ridiculous that is.
Remain ignorant if you want, but Websters definition of the two economic systems has probably been around longer than you've been alive. So just because you don't want to believe it doesn't make you correct, Eric.

You must think I subscribe to AR. Not seen a single movie nor read a single book from her. Heard the name. That's about it.

Certainly, but you came in here and made it sound so easy to fix what's wrong. A few laws here, some updated education there. Come on, man. You can't say this dumbass **** and not expect me to call you out on your bullshit. You give me your solutions and I'll give you mine.
And you still haven't gave me a list of problems you have with capitalism. :no
 

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missippi roolz
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You're leaving out the big labor unions, teachers unions, socialists and communist organizations that bankroll the leftists.

Then, there are those businesses that are pro-immigration reform so they can undercut American wages with lower paid immigrant workers, so they bank roll politicians that pander to the foreign workers, immigrants (legal, illegals, etc). Then there are those pro-global warming businesses because they get filthy rich off the green economy, so they bank-roll the Warming Alarmists. Etc....

It goes both ways... Both sides get their share of blame here.
I know you tried to cover your bases here to avoid counter-argument by saying "both sides get their share of blame" but if you think green energy companies and businesses with immigrant workers come anywhere near oil & gas, Koch brothers, police unions, drug cartels and companies that benefit from the 'war on drugs' in under-the-table politician buying, you are completely enthralled by the propaganda you so blatantly denounce in these threads.
 

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7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
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I know you tried to cover your bases here to avoid counter-argument by saying "both sides get their share of blame" but if you think green energy companies and businesses with immigrant workers come anywhere near oil & gas, Koch brothers, police unions, drug cartels and companies that benefit from the 'war on drugs' in under-the-table politician buying, you are completely enthralled by the propaganda you so blatantly denounce in these threads.
What I said flew right over your head. You're trying to make this a left v/s right issue.

I was basically agreeing with Eric. I just added to it and pointed out both sides are engaged in the same tactics.

You're just upset that I pointed out Dems do the same ****, that I suppose your for those groups and orgs, so it makes it OK they get bank rolled by them, but wrong for Reps because you disagree with their politics. Hypocrisy, that's what you displayed here.
 

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Pawsitively sexy
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I have no idea WTF your talking about here. Nowhere did I imply that. :no
Of course you did. You put the blame of corruption of our democracy on politicians without even a mention of the people waving the carrots.

I said I didn't have a problem with them making their money legally and basically against them making their money off insider trading and cronyism.
I guess this is the part where you say crony capitalism is socialism and not capitalism, right? LOL

I don't deny its a rich mans game to get elected.

You're leaving out the big labor unions, teachers unions, socialists and communist organizations that bankroll the leftists.

Then, there are those businesses that are pro-immigration reform so they can undercut American wages with lower paid immigrant workers, so they bank roll politicians that pander to the foreign workers, immigrants (legal, illegals, etc). Then there are those pro-global warming businesses because they get filthy rich off the green economy, so they bank-roll the Warming Alarmists. Etc....

It goes both ways... Both sides get their share of blame here.
I never inferred otherwise although, as already pointed out, the people on the right are far bigger players in the game of corrupt politicking. Big oil alone squashes the list you gave. Just like the cigarette companies in the last few decades and the Ethyl Company before them. Funny that the cigarette and lead companies used corrupt scientists and the "show me the proof" arguments (also called the Kehoe paradigm). Big oil is doing the EXACT SAME THING. If only people paid attention to history...

Remain ignorant if you want, but Websters definition of the two economic systems has probably been around longer than you've been alive. So just because you don't want to believe it doesn't make you correct, Eric.
I don't contest Webster's dictionary on state capitalism. They quite clearly call state capitalism a modified version of capitalism (hence the name, if you never noticed).

"an economic system in which private capitalism is modified by a varying degree of government ownership and control"

And you still haven't gave me a list of problems you have with capitalism. :no
Because I'm waiting on your answers, John. You made a claim, now back it up. I know that's a new concept to you, but you can do it!
 

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7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
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Of course you did. You put the blame of corruption of our democracy on politicians without even a mention of the people waving the carrots.
Spoken like a true democrat. Never blame who's responsible. Always deflect the blame... :facepalm:

If the political elites engage in behavior you disapprove of, or that is illegal, who's fault is it again?

For example:

If you're at work in the jailhouse, and a prisoner offers you $10,000 cash to help him escape, and you accept the offer, help him escape and then get caught, who's fault is it again? Yours, his, or both of you?

Think now.... This one is easy...

I guess this is the part where you say crony capitalism is socialism and not capitalism, right? LOL
It was you who got corrected by the entire membership that Capitalism and State-Capitalism are not the same thing, but you refused to accept that and Websters definition of it. Sorry if you can't accept that fact.

I never inferred otherwise although, as already pointed out, the people on the right are far bigger players in the game of corrupt politicking. Big oil alone squashes the list you gave. Just like the cigarette companies in the last few decades and the Ethyl Company before them. Funny that the cigarette and lead companies used corrupt scientists and the "show me the proof" arguments (also called the Kehoe paradigm). Big oil is doing the EXACT SAME THING. If only people paid attention to history...
So let me get this right... You still want to bicker this as a left v/s right issue because you feel one does it more than the other party?

There is just as much, if not more, money coming from lobbyists and special interest groups on the left as there is on the right.

It's just that the left does't blog about the flaws on the left, so you don't read all the bullshit they do. You just stay focused on what the right does, so your perspective is narrow and one sided at best here.

Both parties suck balls on this issue. Take the blinders off, Eric.

I don't contest Webster's dictionary on state capitalism. They quite clearly call state capitalism a modified version of capitalism (hence the name, if you never noticed).
Holy ****!!! You still trying to tell us State Capitalism is the same as Capitalism? :lmao

Again, from Websters...

Capitalism: a way of organizing an economy so that the things that are used to make and transport products (such as land, oil, factories, ships, etc.) are owned by individual people and companies rather than by the government

Capitolism: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

State Capitalism: an economic system in which private capitalism is modified by a varying degree of government ownership and control

State Capitalism: a political system in which the state has control of production and the use of capital.

Because I'm waiting on your answers, John. You made a claim, now back it up. I know that's a new concept to you, but you can do it!
If you can't list the problems, I guess there are none. :headscratcher:
 

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Pawsitively sexy
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Spoken like a true democrat. Never blame who's responsible. Always deflect the blame... :facepalm:

If the political elites engage in behavior you disapprove of, or that is illegal, who's fault is it again?

For example:

If you're at work in the jailhouse, and a prisoner offers you $10,000 cash to help him escape, and you accept the offer, help him escape and then get caught, who's fault is it again? Yours, his, or both of you?
Yeah, because that's a fair comparison.

First off, it wouldn't be $10,000. We're talking millions. And if I knew I had immunity like the politicians and their rich buds I'd take the inmate up on that offer any day of the week.

Have you forgotten that bribery is against the law? You act like it's totally acceptable for the Koch's to dump money into the pocket of an official and expect something in return. Sure, when the one rule of your religion, I mean economy, is the profit motive I guess it's okay. But for the rest of us, bribery is wrong, illegal, and should warrant punishment ALONG with the politician who took the bribe. But it just wouldn't fit your narrative to mention that.

As long as companies have rules to follow and taxes to pay, there will be corruption. Amplify that effect when you involve an economic system that focuses exclusively on short term profit making. Gotta keep the capital gains rolling while us working class people pay the bills.
 
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