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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Long story short doing install and degreeb of cams comp 270ah and when this nightmare was thought to be done I started it and metal on metal noises shutit off right away and pulled plugs all look fine. U rolled it over by hand a bunvh of times and zero noise please help I.need this finished by 8am call text post up any ideas please I'm so done with this pile of **** car i wanna throw a wrench through the windshield... anyways 517-819-0589 - josh.
 

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When you rolled it over by hand was it before you started it? Weren't you the guy with the obx gears? If so did you torque down the screws correctly with loctite after you degreed the cams?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
yes I had the shitty OBX gears it rolled over by hand before and after. i did loctite the screws when torqued to spec.

so heres the bottom line. is my motor junk? i pulled plugs and rolled it over hear nothing. no broken valve at least not that i can see from a spring being unloaded. no damage or obvious signs on any spark plugs. it only ran for maybe 1 second. ive got it all pulled back apart and it looks like possible both cam gears slipped so i am in the process of redoing the degreeing but i keep getting numbers for intake center line that are WAY! off and i dont have enough adjustment for them. what do i do? it acts like the chain slipped or some crazy **** like that. I have untill 2 pm tomorrow to finish this car so im begging for any help you guys can give!! just to clarify when degreeing and i take the measurements .5 before and after max lift do i take the number straight up as it sits on the degree wheel? just making sure im not missing something because although in general terms the write ups are good in clear detail they're total piss. none of my friends or myself could truly understand them so we basically are doing what we think they mean. and im still boggled from my other thread that TDC according to the right up is actually bottom dead center. ugh im freaking out about this. i feel like im putting all this work into a motor thats junk but i wont know till i bury more hours into it and put it all back together and try and start it.
 

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Cams

me and my buddy just degreed mine. do you have the heads off dosnt sound like it .. mine were off when we found tdc using dial indicator and then set degree wheel. found fifty before and fifty after then add them together and devide by 2 and that is where the cams are at... my cam cards had the step by step directions on the back of the card... cams from bullet racing just like the cms stage 2. this probly didnt help much... i also did hear bad things about the adjustable cam gears coming loose so i didnt want those.... i found adjustable lower crank gears from mmr they are adjustable in 2 degree incraments and cant come loose or slip... good luck.. are you timing the engine correctly.. the notch of the crank gear goes down not the key way there is a dot or a groove and it needs to go straight down. the cam dots will be angle to the head.. make dots on the chains when fully stretched out one dot on each end and line those marks to the one on crank and the one on the cam and it cant be out of time.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
the heads are on the car and that is how i timed it. although I pulled the timing cover off and would the same number of links be found between the marks? I figured being diffeent size gears it would be logical for there to be a different amount of links between them now but i wasnt certain. I did not check the clearance it wasn't in any of the write ups but I will tomorrow when I go back out. I just dont understand Why I would get such numbers that were so far off unless the timing was off. the adjustable cam gears give about two links worth of adjustment and it wasnt enough to get the numbers in the range I needed. I wish there was an "expert" in mid michigan I can get a hold of. at this point I would probably pay someone cash to come help me do it. I just wish I knew if there was damage done to the motor. If there was then so be it but atleast then I would know to get a new motor and I could swap the damn thing in faster then I could get this pile of **** timed/degreed correctly. I cant believe its this hard. Ive done some insane custom fab work stuffed a 460 down inside a bronco 2 on full axle swaps and all kinds of crazy **** and never had anything as hard as this..
 

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everything sould have benn installed straight up for the first go round to
see what the cams were at when at 0... for the marks, when you take the chain and lay it flat and stretch it straight out there wil be one link at
the top and one link at the bottom this is where i place a paint dot. then
these dots will line up with the notch on the crank gear and the dot on the
cam gear. sounds like u need a break, fustration is a bitch:mad:
 

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A cam swap (especially with springs) in the car with degreeing the cams is a serious PITA. I won't ever do it again.

What sort of intake centerline are you trying to install the cams at? If you are using the factory spec 109 degrees there a reasonable chance you have PTV contact.

I would suggest going through timing the cams again from scratch just to make the timing chain didn't jump a tooth or something.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I am shooting for the comps intake centerline of 109 and i cant get close. what should I be shooting for if not 109? and frustration is killing me. im currently back at home a couple beers into researching a new approach for tomorrow. at this point i will be pulling it all and starting over on timing just to make sure.
 

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I think I had to retard mine 4.5 degrees to get them to clear.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I think im probably going to put the old cams back in time it and pull compression tests on all cylinders to make sure no valves got bent and they are all seating correctly. but after that say they do all check out what should i be degreeing this to? if not 109 how do i compensate for ptv? and say a valve did get ticked how much compression difference is acceptable?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I would suggest checking PTV clearance. I had to retard my 270's a bunch to get them to clear. ModularHeadShop Articles on PTV check
when he says roll it between 0-20 degrees past tdc doesnt that leave a ton of room for error? 20 degrees is a lot and if you left it at 0 degrees it would be much closer to the piston than it would be at 20 right? so why measure ptv clearance at 20? seems like it would be misleading.
 

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I don't know if I missed it or not, but with the 2000 do you have the Windsor or Romeo motor? I know with mine (Romeo) I just filed away the keyway to the stock cam gears to get the timing I needed although it wasn't much.
 

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I didn't use that method so I can't be 100% sure but if I am reading it correctly you are taking multiple measurements between 0 and 20 degrees.

113.5 would be advanced 4.5 degrees.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
nightmare realized. put in old cams timed to check compression and 0 compression in 3 and 6. what are my options now? DOHC motor swap? SOHC motor swap? pull the heads and pray the pistons lived? im trying to not give up all hope. but i honestly hate this car with every ounce of my being.
 

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when he says roll it between 0-20 degrees past tdc doesnt that leave a ton of room for error? 20 degrees is a lot and if you left it at 0 degrees it would be much closer to the piston than it would be at 20 right? so why measure ptv clearance at 20? seems like it would be misleading.
The pistons dont move proportional to the valves so it is at the latter part of the valves closing that you have issues. At 0 degrees the valve is much further into the head than at 20 degrees.

nightmare realized. put in old cams timed to check compression and 0 compression in 3 and 6. what are my options now? DOHC motor swap? SOHC motor swap? pull the heads and pray the pistons lived? im trying to not give up all hope. but i honestly hate this car with every ounce of my being.
You have to pull the heads for sure. If the pistons are just nicked you may be able to reuse them. FYI, if you wanna save money you can bring the valves alone to the machine shop and have them checked for straight ness and replaced. chances are a few other valves are bent slightly and itll hurt power.
 

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nightmare realized. put in old cams timed to check compression and 0 compression in 3 and 6. what are my options now? DOHC motor swap? SOHC motor swap? pull the heads and pray the pistons lived? im trying to not give up all hope. but i honestly hate this car with every ounce of my being.
it depends on how bad the valves got in to the pistons but a lot of times the pistons should be OK. The easiest and fastest way to fix it would be find a good used long block. One out an Explorer would be ideal since it uses an aluminum block. What kind of budget do you have for the repairs?
 

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it depends on how bad the valves got in to the pistons but a lot of times the pistons should be OK. The easiest and fastest way to fix it would be find a good used long block. One out an Explorer would be ideal since it uses an aluminum block. What kind of budget do you have for the repairs?
Ive got a i dont know "mild" budget? may less than 2000? Im VERY SERIOUSLY debating the mark VIII DOHC 4.6 swap.. ive found 2 in a decent range for 500 or less. what do you guys think?
 
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