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I dont know if its nation wide; but the fuel at all the stations in northern Virginia is 10% ethanol.

I remember reading that ethanol is not as powerful as gasoline, so how much hp would i lose running on this fuel.
 

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I think it's been like that for quite a while. In Illinois they say the fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol. Wouldn't the octane rating still have to compensate for the ethanol addition though?
 

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It's the same in N, Ky. If you go around 30 miles south you can get straight gas, I always do when I get down that way. The state started adding 10% ethanol when the smog levels rose in our area. That might have happened where you live. The EPA is what caused it in my part of town. Btw the straight gas seems to get better mpg.
 

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Ethanol has a higher octane but doesnt have the same amount of energy per gallon that gas does, therefore giving you less mpg. If you look at a window sticker for a car that is capable of running E85 you will see a different set of parameters for the two kinds of fuel.
 

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Ethanol has a higher octane but doesnt have the same amount of energy per gallon that gas does, therefore giving you less mpg. If you look at a window sticker for a car that is capable of running E85 you will see a different set of parameters for the two kinds of fuel.

Ethanol doesn't have the same energy (explosive combustion), but burns hotter and with fiddling can produce better timing et cetera. Heard some bad things about longevity in a fleet test GM did up in Canada, but nothing substantial either way.
 

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Ethanol burns at 9:1 while gas burns at 14.6:1. So if you are running pure ethanol you will get loose about 40% of your mpg. Ethanol has a much higher octane and you can make more power than gas due to the timing increase, but you need a fuel system that can support a 40% increase in fuel. If you figure the gas has 10% ethanol the stoich point will be (10*9+90*14.6)/100= 14.04:1 So you will loose about 4% on your mpg. With E85 it will be (25*9+75*14.6)/100=13.2:1 and will lose about 10% of your fuel economy.
 

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Farmers have a very powerful professional industry lobby. Also realize not all farmers are individual families....

[sarc]Oh, and the price of corn and soy are through the roof this year and last you say? Wow! I can't believe it![/sarc]


Seriously a lot of it is research too, think of it this way, 85% of E85 is made in the US. Only 15% of it comes from questionably reliable international sources.

There is plenty of promising research into using far more productive plant sources for the ethanol. Algea farms apparently don't need farmland to produce several hundred percent more ethenol per acre than corn or soy. And if there's already an E85 distribution channel in the market, all you do is change the source of the ethanol. The only problem is by the time that stuff comes into the mainstream, diesel, electric and other fuel sources will be much more prevalant.

Maybe food prices will get back to normal when they stop using corn for ethanol....
 

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The only alternative fuels I see having a future are hydrogen and biodiesel.

Biodiesel is really the same thing as E85, just with diesel instead of gasoline. So, yeah I agree on that. I'd like to see more info on the current 10% ethanol in our gas. Last I heard there are over 50 different gasoline formulations the EPA requires across the US to compensate for metropolitan population aggregates.

I'd like to see a more efficient ethanol system just to kick the BRIC countries out of our fuel system and appease the treeshaggers who can't sleep at night if the US produces it's own oil.

I think the hydrogen is a lot of pie in the sky. It looks cool, the technology is way cool, but there's no distribution network and I don't see one popping up overnight when they have yet to find a way to efficiently isolate hydrogen.

GM has some very interesting technology for electrics coming down the pipeline, just nobody's looking at anything they have aside from the fun candy shell of the Volt. Last I heard the stumbling block with electric stuff is the transmission - this has been the big big big problem with the Tesla... theres' something like 100% of the power available from a dead stop - how in blazes can a traditional transmission keep up? How long do TR3650s stay together at repeated 5500 rpm launches? Well, suppsoedly GM's found a way around using a transmission altogether.

What you'll see mid term is an electric/turbodiesel system that runs electric around town up to a few hundred miles max, diesel kicks in to run above certain speeds and also recharge the battery. Start/stop issues should be clinched... BMW is integrating the Starp/Stop tech in Minis right now... when you're at a stoplight the car shuts off and turns back on when you shift into drive. No key turns, just a drop into N and zero momentum. Little tiny fixes that are like bolt ons to power consumption... five to ten mods that net 10 hp a piece net 50-100 hp, right? It's just up till now manufacturers haven't felt the need to produce this crap, but technology research is a funny animal... once you get it in gear and direct it at a need, it crests needy hills awefully damn fast....

Oh... that electric/turbo diesel system will be out in Europe this autumn. Already in production. Give it two years to seep down from the $75k sedans into normal cars....
(trips, breaks leg on way down from soapbox) :eek:
 

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so do you guys notice a diff. between the gas and the 10% ethanol? i heard eathanol likes to eat rubber also

Someone (Emay?) had some info on converting gasoline engines into E8, I also read a brief summary by an auto journalist in Canada about GM's trial fleet with E85 in Alberta or somewhere cold up there... aside from having to replace the entire fuel system with stainless steel, possibly the fuel tank and other pieces.

I don't know how long a fuel system not designed for ethanol would hold up to the stuff, but they've probably found a way to replace it at the factory if they're selling the vehicles new with long term warranties....
 

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Not only is E85 less efficient compared to gasoline, but production is also less efficient. I read a study somewhere a while back that said if ALL of the available farmland (not just current farms, but all available land capable of growing crops) in the US were converted to growing corn and other crops for the production of E85, it wouldn't be enough to supply the US demand for fuel. Also, the production of ethanol itself uses a tremendous amount of energy and water, so the production facilities would have to be enormous. Until alternative fuels that are efficient to produce are adopted on a large scale, the only solution is to continue to pay ransom to OPEC or tell the environmentalists to go f*^k themselves and start drilling off the coast of FL and in Alaska (whereever that huge wasteland is up there that can't be touched because of the environuts), and go back to using coal and shale oil like we did in WWII. And also ease restrictions on the oil companies so its economically feasable for them to build new more efficient plants in the US. The newest ones now are at least 20 years old and are far less efficient than technology can build now, but gov't regs are so restrictive that the companies can't afford to build new ones.

Rant, Rant, Blah, Blah, Blah :mad:, sorry I get carried away at times.:)
 

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Someone (Emay?) had some info on converting gasoline engines into E8, I also read a brief summary by an auto journalist in Canada about GM's trial fleet with E85 in Alberta or somewhere cold up there... aside from having to replace the entire fuel system with stainless steel, possibly the fuel tank and other pieces.

I don't know how long a fuel system not designed for ethanol would hold up to the stuff, but they've probably found a way to replace it at the factory if they're selling the vehicles new with long term warranties....
i remember emay saying it will take quite a while for the rubber components in the fuel system to break down, maybe 6mo to a year it won't show damage immediately but they will inevitably break down.
 

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also one of the big reasons you can get more power out of ethanol if done right is because you can run much more compression since it's at i think 110 octane
 

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Not only is E85 less efficient compared to gasoline, but production is also less efficient. I read a study somewhere a while back that said if ALL of the available farmland (not just current farms, but all available land capable of growing crops) in the US were converted to growing corn and other crops for the production of E85, it wouldn't be enough to supply the US demand for fuel. Also, the production of ethanol itself uses a tremendous amount of energy and water,[...]
That's why they're looking into alternative bio sources to replace corn. Last article I read about it said people were hopeful algea could be used (what about farmers' industry lobby...) that produces substantially more ethanol with relatively no water input and doesn't require arable land.

Diesel/electric hybrids. This is at the small end of what should be available within the next few years.

US oil.

Actually, I was looking for the link on the algea fields, but that website scares the bleepity bleep out of me. I'm gonna stop now.
 

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I think its quite hilarious when a greenie rants about how we need to increase gas mileage to lower emissions, but what will really happen if we get that is the increase of driving to different places that we couldnt afford before. Meaning more trips up north, more trips to the store. All of those things have been directly affected by the increase in gas prices, which by the way are at $3.45 for regular this morning here.
 
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