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There may be quite a bit of channels being changed with some of this stuff that’s being laid out bc from the start some have flat out refused to hear some of this stuff.
 

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I view impeachment as something related to a crime the President committed. Others seem to view it as a simple political process. Stretched far enough that could mean we can impeach him just because we don't like him. For those that view it has a political process:

1. Viewers are tuning out.
2. A recent poll suggests that the Democrats are loosing public support. In the key area of independents. 47% oppose impeachment when one week ago only 37% opposed impeachment.

That might be why some Democrats are talking about "censure" instead of impeachment. The first president censured was Andrew Jackson.

At that rate if you want to ensure Trump gets reelected keep the fake hearings going. (Again fake as in they will never lead to an impeachment vote. They are intended to influence the 2020 election.)
 

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missippi roolz
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Fox News. I used to watch CNN but it became more opinion than news


Sondland was not a good witness.
mmhmm

Nothing you write means anything here. You support witnesses that seem to imply Trump is innocent and discredit witnesses that seem to imply Trump did something shady. We're all completely shocked.

This will forever remain partisan no matter what. There's no point.
 

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The hearing is still going on. Its going to be a long day and I needed a break. I'm recording the rest.

Trump is skeptical of foreign aid in general. Trump's Ukrainian concerns included a negative view of it's war on corruption and that Europe wasn't contributing enough. Two points became clear today:

1. Holmes (from the US embassy in Ukraine) prepared a report that he submitted at the end of August. It said US aid was $3 million. EU and individual counties aid was $12 million. Europe was contribution 4 times more than the United States.

2. On September 1 the new Ukrainian parliament in an all night session completely revamped the laws concerning corruption.

With Trump's biggest concerns taken care of, US aid was released. There was no investigation.

Why was this very important. As testified on either Tuesday or Wednesday. It is one year money. (see note).

Note: In the military we called it colors of money because all money isn't green. US departments do not really get money. The only department that has money is the Treasury department. All others get permission to incur debt. It takes two laws to get permission. The House and Senate must pass an Authorization law. Once an office is authorized then the House and Senate must pass an Appropriation law. That sets the limits to the amount of debt than may be incurred.

The federal government operates on a fiscal year. October 1 to September 31. Authorizations/appropriations are not indefinite. They expire. Some authorization are good for three years. Some for two. And some for only one. For example, research and development is good for three years. Production is good for two years and Operations are good for one year. On October 1st of the following fiscal year the the organization no longer has authority to incur debts.

To allow for processing time, Congress has said that all money must be "spent" (a debt incurred) by September 15th. Holding off until September 1st is getting close to last minute. Can be done if everything is ready to go but still close. Nothing can be done after the appropriation expires on October 1st.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:41 PM ----------

You support witnesses that seem to imply Trump is innocent and discredit witnesses that seem to imply Trump did something shady. We're all completely shocked.
No I support witnesses that do not change their testimony constantly in the same hearing.

By the way, the defense does not have to prove someone is innocent. The prosecutor has to prove he is guilty.
 

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missippi roolz
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Congressman Maloney is a d-bag.

Congresswoman Demings is a badass. I'd be happy having her as a representative and I generally dislike almost all politicians.
 

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7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
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And the truth starts to come out....

FBI official is under criminal investigation for 'altering document' used to obtain Russia probe surveillance warrant on Trump campaign aide Carter Page during 2016 election
The matter was reportedly uncovered by Inspector General Michael Horowitz
Horowitz referred the matter to US Attorney John Durham for criminal probe
Carter Page was under FISA surveillance order during the 2016 campaign
James Comey and Andy McCabe signed off on the application and renewals
Horowitz says he expects to be able to release his report on December 9

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7713023/Criminal-probe-opened-Carter-Page-FISA-warrant-application.html
 

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This entire circus is simply because the anointed one (Hillary Clinton) was "cheated" out of the Presidency. Haven't you heard Democrats say this? Democrats hate Donald Trump. He is rude, crude and socially unacceptable... especially on twitter. They wanted to impeach him for being a Russian agent. When that fell through they looked for something else. And that was withholding a meeting and/or aid to Ukraine.

The irony of all of this is that Joe Biden has a couple of videos on the internet bragging about withholding $800 million from Ukraine if they didn't fire a prosecutor that he called corrupt. Holmes in his testimony said everyone was convinced that the prosecutor was corrupt. The prosecutor wasn't doing anything.

The Trump administration didn't announce why the aid was on hold. Some made an assumption that it had to do with wanting investigations into their influence in out 2016 election (some of which was very public) and into Burisma and extremely corrupt energy company. Holmes made the assumption that Burisma was code for Biden but no one ever told him that. His boss, Taylor, never mentioned anything like that during his testimony the day before.

It must be pure coincidence that aid was released immediately after two of Trump's biggest concerns about Ukraine aid (according to Volker's testimony they were European help and corruption) were addressed.

One would think that if this is an impeachable offense (I do not believe it is.) then the same standard would apply to Joe Biden. And, as was mentioned earlier, Bush held up aid to 35 countries to get a UN resolution passed.

As I said, this is nothing but a circus.
 

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:eek:hsnap:popcorn
 

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I'm fine with Joe Biden being impeached
This will probably surprise you but I'm not. Not with the information that we currently have. Since there has been no investigation there isn't any hard evidence of wrong doing. There is definitely the appearance of wrong doing but that is not enough to justify impeaching forgetful Joe.

Are there any politicians you like?
 

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missippi roolz
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That was mostly a low-effort joke since Biden isn't currently elected.

I do not believe there are any politicians that I like. There are politicians that align enough with what I consider to be important issues that I'm happy to vote for them. However, it seems most of them pander to "issues" that apparently the base finds important enough to touch on, but when I hear them speak, I generally roll my eyes on a lot of their commentary. I've said it before, but I have no idea what kind of person you have to be to go to a politician's campaign rally, but it sure as **** ain't someone like me.

I'm not really big on circlejerking each other over some person just because they're a politician or a celebrity or famous or whatever and clapping and wooing for them like it's a sporting event. To me, they're just another human like the rest of us. Just because they say some things that sound inspiring doesn't make me believe they're worth idolizing or lionizing. Their historical actions and viewpoints tell me more than the words coming out of their mouths. I honestly find the whole practice of trumping these people up as creepy.

I also am of the belief that in reality, some of the issues that they're pandering to will never be enacted due to the way the Bill of Rights is set up. So a politician promoting policy ideas on gun control doesn't really move the needle for me even though I generally believe the Bill of Rights should be left as is. That's because I don't actually believe that banning guns is something that will ever happen under a representative democracy such as the United States, especially when, believe it or not, there are a shitload of liberals that want to protect gun rights to add to the conservative numbers. But I also don't have a huge hard on for the 2nd Amendment when I see other issues as much more pressing for the long term health of the human race.

Like you and many others I'm sure though, I would very likely turn into a law breaker if in some hypothetical situation, guns became illegal to own. Until there's quantifiable data showing that no criminal could conceivably possess a firearm (i.e. literally never), I won't be handing mine over voluntarily.
 

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It is impossible for Nunes to get the control. If things go forward they will go to the Senate. The Democrats will no longer be able to control who testifies and who doesn't. It will be an entirely different ball game.

Socialist: Damn good post. We disagree on a bunch of stuff. But damn good post.
 

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7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
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Like you and many others I'm sure though, I would very likely turn into a law breaker if in some hypothetical situation, guns became illegal to own. Until there's quantifiable data showing that no criminal could conceivably possess a firearm (i.e. literally never), I won't be handing mine over voluntarily.
How dare you make such a statement!

You right-wing Nazi!






























LOL
 

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I had to laugh at what Trump is saying about impeachment. He said he wants to go to trial. And, he is right in many things. If the Democrats vote for impeachment they will lose control. Schiff will no longer control the gavel. That goes to Chief Justice Roberts. They will no longer control who can be witnesses. I really don't know if Schiff can be called as a witness but maybe. The whistle blower will certainly be called and there will be a bunch of questions about how he/she coordinated things he heard with Schiff's staff. (There was one report that the form was changed but I don't know if that is true or not.)

Watching the hearings it was very suspicious that Schiff wouldn't let LtC Vintman answer a question about which intelligence department he spoke to. It makes one think he might be the person behind the whistle blower. But that is pure conjecture on my part. During the Senate trial the source of the information will definitely come out. And, Justice Roberts will allow cross-examination.

I also seriously doubt that Justice Roberts will allow hearsay testimony or people's assumptions. He is going to want hear only facts when the witnesses testify.

I didn't think the House circus (impeachment inquiry) brought out any impeachable offense. Others, who wanted Trump out on day one, think otherwise. But we don't determine that. The House of Representatives does. We have to wait to see what they do. If they vote for impeachment, witnesses will be called that Democrats really don't want testifying. Hunter Biden and others will be fair game

According to polls, Independents are quickly turning against impeachment because it is clear to a blind man how one sided the inquiry was. I wonder how that will affect their vote next November?
 

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Is this a crack in the block of Democrats who demand impeachment? Representative Brenda Lawrence (D-MI) is suggesting censure not impeachment and has called for her fellow Democrats to throw support behind the symbolic censure resolution. In October, during a radio interview, she was clearly for impeachment.

Even the media is thinking twice. The Detroit news wrote that the House should "censure not impeach' the President. "Democrats still don't have the strong case they're seeking to justify removing President Donald Trump from office," the paper wrote. "Censure amounts to a public shaming. ... But it also recognizes the offense does not merit removal from office. That, too, seems appropriate, given the inconclusive testimony so far."

Adam Schiff (D-CA) announced Monday that Democrats "are now preparing a report" for the House Judiciary Committee, indicating that his panel is wrapping up its work and that the next phase of the impeachment inquiry is imminent.

But even he isn't sure the President should be impeached. Funny how polls can affect a politician's judgement.

Democrats can lose only 16 votes in the House before the vote to impeach fails. Two already voted against the "impeachment inquiry." One has changed her mind and no longer supports impeachment. And 31 House Democrats are from districts that Trump carried in the last election.

It was apparent to a lot of people that the "facts" supporting impeachment were not there. It was hearsay evidence and assumptions on the part of people who already hated Trump. At least I hope they are making their decisions based on facts. More likely than not they. like Schiff, are changing their minds because polling show a lack of support for impeachment among independents.

P.S. At his first public appearance since announcing his presidential run, former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg told reporters Monday that President Trump has an even better chance of being reelected now than he did before.

Bloomberg's remarks echoed those of his campaign manager, Kevin Sheeky, earlier in the day. "Right now, Donald Trump is winning," Sheekey said. "It’s very tough for people who don’t live in New York or California to understand that, but that is what’s happening."
 

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Discussion Starter #159
Trumps insistence on a "Trial" in the senate only confirms the fix he's put in. Republicans like Nunes, Gaetz, Meadows and Jordan will be there to turn it into a sideshow to please the master. They're going to continue pushing Russian narratives because Putin has convinced Trump that what he tells him is the truth and everyone else is out to get him. He got him elected right? That should show the loyalty Trump so desperately wants. Trump isn't concerned with the facts. His concern is whether those facts can either be muddied or turned on their head with his manipulations.

I approve of Trump being impeached and would love for him to be removed from office because I believe he is unfit for the Presidency but impeachment will be enough for me. He will forever have the stain of impeachment along with an asterisk in regards to Russia having elected him. The fact that he values his public persona so much that he would commit treason just so that his base continues to support him is evidence enough for me that he should be removed. Unfortunately he is also a master manipulator that has been given almost unlimited power in regards to proclamations and decrees with almost zero accountability just amplifies his worst traits as evidenced by the testimony we've heard but again.....none of that matters to Republicans as long as they get what they want.

BTW the proclamations that the heartland will stay with Trump are not as solid as Trump supporters would like you to believe. The trade war is paring off many farmers that are seeing through the lies this administration told them. Also, Trumps ace in the hole being the economy is also teetering on recession. If the recession hits in the next year, which many major economists are predicting, his hold on Republicans will weaken. He's already lost the woman vote for the most part. Where he will surprise most people is in the latino vote. Most latinos that have been here for a awhile don't see themselves as the "wetbacks" that they see Trump referring to so they don't really attach themselves to the moniker that Trump has spouted as them being criminals.

On a side note, Hitlers Minister of Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels was insistent that Hitler do as many rallies as he could to keep public sentiment on his side. Hitler. as chancellor, was able to bring back Germanies economy after it was ravaged by WW1. This was the basis and the rally cry that kept the Germans supporting Hitler. Funny how the parallels keep stacking up...….

John
 

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Nice rant. You have been bitten really hard by the TDS bug. You said:

1. "They're going to continue pushing Russian narratives because Putin has convinced Trump that what he tells him is the truth and everyone else is out to get him." "He will forever have the stain of impeachment along with an asterisk in regards to Russia having elected him." That was a false narrative pushed by Democrats starting at day 1 of Trump's presidency. The Mueller report disproved all of it.

2. "If a recession hits in the next year, which many major economists are predicting, his hold on Republicans will weaken." Recessions usually do hurt a sitting President. Just one problem in this election. The Democrats are running a bunch of socialists. There is no one in that pack of 20 that can draw a Republican vote. Besides, recessions are very hard to predict. One could hit before the election or, if the trade deal gets worked out, well after. Since China is already in recession I suspect a trade deal will come around sooner than later.

3. "He's already lost the woman vote for the most part." More women, especially in cities, are Democrat than Republican. That is a fact that has been around a very long time. But, out here in the sticks that isn't true.

4. "Where he will surprise most people is in the latino vote. Most latinos that have been here for a awhile don't see themselves as the "wetbacks" that they see Trump referring to so they don't really attach themselves to the moniker that Trump has spouted as them being criminals." This one really caught my attention. First, I try hard to not use derogatory terms when referring to people. Second, illegally coming into the country is a crime. Immigrants, legal or illegal, do not have a right to vote in our elections. Only US citizens can vote in our elections. I've lived in California twice. My wife is from California. But a lot has changed since we were married and moved out. You don't allow non-citizens to vote, do you?

By the way, this may surprise you but the rest of the country already knows that California would vote for a yellow dog before they'd vote Republican. Conservatives automatically put California's electoral college votes in the Democrat column. But as the last election showed. That really doesn't matter.

I'll again post Bloomberg's campaign manager's comment. "Right now, Donald Trump is winning," Sheekey said. "It’s very tough for people who don’t live in New York or California to understand that, but that is what’s happening."

I understand that you don't like this. I understand that you hate Trump. But, take a close look at the candidates the Democrats are running. It makes complete since that party leadership would look for someone else. None of them can beat Trump. And, as Schiff has discovered, all of the Democrat's lies in the world can't change that.
 
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