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All sissies going to Hell!
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That was a good article. I feel for the civilians in palistine. It sucks that they are stuck in the middle of the conflict. It seems to me that palistine is a breeding ground for extremism because they have so little to live for there. Im not pointing any fingers but it seems like if they cut the palistinians some slack and gave them something to work towards they would have less reason to join Hamas.

It also seems like as long as Hamas has any support a two state solution will never happen. I doubt we will ever see a resolution to this conflict in our lifetime, both sides are just too entrenched in their beliefs.

I agree with this also.

Israel constructed plants, and other operations over there to allow them to have something to do other than be terrorists......Hamas burned every one of them to the ground.

---------- Post added at 05:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 AM ----------

The former Palestinian that works the gas station showed me a video on his phone of beach with a bunch of mangled dead kids on it....Israel knew they were there and continued with the strike to kill the kids. I'm sure there is lots of finger pointing on both sides but the bottom line is 6 year olds are innocent and someone pulled a trigger. I hate them all over there and sucking Israel's pecker for Intel is no excuse. In today's modern world we don't need land to have successful intel in a region anymore. It seems like everything becomes an excuse to create violence and drama and do a lot of finger pointing. They are all guilty of doing harm and all of them need to do something besides trying to find the next excuse to kill.

9 questions about the Israel-Palestine conflict you were too embarrassed to ask - Vox

I found this article. It's so informative just to help understand the nuts and bolts of it all.
Military resources wouldn't be diverted just to kill kids. Get your stuff straight man. Give that 20 seconds of thought.

Look at the tactics used by Hamas, and think. Is it Israel carried out the strike and there was collateral damage? or did they waste a Multi-million dollar piece of ordinance to take out 6 kids?

It's part of what Hamas wants, they want their children and civilians to die, because it is part of their recruitment strategy. I'm not saying Israel doesn't make mistakes or bad decisions, but evaluate what people are telling you man. Carried out the strike to kill 6 kids? Camman man.
 

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Pawsitively sexy
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Military resources wouldn't be diverted just to kill kids. Get your stuff straight man. Give that 20 seconds of thought.

Look at the tactics used by Hamas, and think. Is it Israel carried out the strike and there was collateral damage? or did they waste a Multi-million dollar piece of ordinance to take out 6 kids?

It's part of what Hamas wants, they want their children and civilians to die, because it is part of their recruitment strategy. I'm not saying Israel doesn't make mistakes or bad decisions, but evaluate what people are telling you man. Carried out the strike to kill 6 kids? Camman man.
Please, help me out here. Where did 44 say they were just out to kill kids? Where did you read his post and get that conclusion? Nowhere in what he typed did I find anything close to "They just want to kill the kids".

At the end of the day, Hamas using despicable tactics isn't an excuse for Israel to do despicable acts in retaliation. No different then Hamas forming in the first place to combat Israeli treatment of Palestinians. This isn't about finger pointing, and that's all you seem to do.
 

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King Trashmouth
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That was a good article. I feel for the civilians in palistine. It sucks that they are stuck in the middle of the conflict. It seems to me that palistine is a breeding ground for extremism because they have so little to live for there. Im not pointing any fingers but it seems like if they cut the palistinians some slack and gave them something to work towards they would have less reason to join Hamas.

It also seems like as long as Hamas has any support a two state solution will never happen. I doubt we will ever see a resolution to this conflict in our lifetime, both sides are just too entrenched in their beliefs.
Unfortunately rolling sanctions back won't sap support from Hamas. If anything, it would embolden them. Hell, they've got their backs against the wall and they're still making outrageous demands as if they have leverage.

While the notion of giving them more resources to steer them away from terrorism is novel, it would be difficult to work where the terrorist organization already has a strangehold on all aspects of daily life. Instead of a reaction of "Well, things are starting to go pretty well, we should probably stop lobbing rockets" you'll get Hamas saying "This is our chance to re-arm and get even more leverage for the next negotiations!" That's what happened with their last reprieve, they used it to re-arm with primarily Iranian arms and build more tunnels.

It really is a no-win situation for Israel. If they back down, Hamas will re-arm, and rally around their new stockpiles. If they hold the line, Palestineans will remain pissed off at them. There really is no winning solution it seems, at least as long as Hamas is in control.

Some sort of lasting peace lays primarily on Hamas, whether they somehow succumb to outward pressure, or have an epiphany and go back to the peace process, or if Israel is somehow able to capitalize on some sort of faux pas to discredit Hamas with the Palestinean people.
 

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Please, help me out here. Where did 44 say they were just out to kill kids? Where did you read his post and get that conclusion? Nowhere in what he typed did I find anything close to "They just want to kill the kids".

At the end of the day, Hamas using despicable tactics isn't an excuse for Israel to do despicable acts in retaliation. No different then Hamas forming in the first place to combat Israeli treatment of Palestinians. This isn't about finger pointing, and that's all you seem to do.
Ty. I may have not made my point clear....I hate both sides of this. That was just one specific video that compelled me. There are no innocent parties only lesser of 2 evils. The more I learn the more I get disgusted with not only both sides but also the US and the rest of the world with the way they handle this. One thing to note is that not ALL Palistinians are Hamas. They are not all hell bent on death. Hamas is ****ed up but there are a lot of Palestinians who just want to live in peace....this is the same for Israel too.

I just worry....someday like history is proving right now in Iraq, the Israeliis will thumb their nose to us and then the billions of $$ in aid and weapons we've given them over the years will just be used against us. I don't trust any of them....not a single one.

---------- Post added at 01:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------

IMO, a third party must divide the state in a more fair way. Nobody can deny the Palestinians keep getting smashed into smaller and smaller lands. It's not going to be easy and nobody will be 100 percent satisfied but they must sacrifice. Jerusalem will be the tough divide but the rest should be easy. They cannot live together and that's just not an option and history has proven that.
 

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While the author makes a valid point I think the story overall is being a bit overblown in it's effects. Kind of like the whole issue conservatives had with Obama not linking the Bengazhi incident as a "terrorist" act from the beginning. While it may be evident to some that these people are terrorist, myself included, they may hold a different view if they take into consideration the israeli oppression that has gone on for years.

John
 

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This thread has provided more info on this subject....I'm glad it's here because I don't feel as if I know nothing on the subject now....I at least know the basics with some opinion thrown in.
 

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7.62x39 CO2 Cannon
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While the author makes a valid point I think the story overall is being a bit overblown in it's effects. Kind of like the whole issue conservatives had with Obama not linking the Bengazhi incident as a "terrorist" act from the beginning. While it may be evident to some that these people are terrorist, myself included, they may hold a different view if they take into consideration the israeli oppression that has gone on for years.

John
Hamas is a terrorist organization. They've been designated as such forever now. Hamas wants to wipe the Jews and Israel off the map and have vowed to do so many times. The fighting tactics they use are terrorist. They ignore cease-fire, use kids as shields, use hospitals, ambulances, schools and mosques as cover to fight from, and even tell the citizens to stay in the war zone so they can use the dead women and children as anti-Israel propaganda, etc.



Israel warns before they respond to an attack, even dropping leaflets, etc., to get innocent civilians out of the war zone; nobody else does that. HAMAS definitely doesn't. But if they stay to sacrifice themselves for Allah and HAMAS, who's fault is that? Think for a minute...

And somehow, Israel has become the bad guy for fighting back when attacked by Hamas. :facepalm:

The media sucks for helping push the lies and propaganda against Israel.

I really don't understand the hatred and racism against them, but I'm seeing it drummed up at levels I've never seen before. Used to, support for the terrorists was just small groups of ignorant left-wing hippie groups like Code Pink, but since the media turned so left, it's like those small left-wing groups are writing the narratives for the media now. :facepalm:
 

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I don't ususally discuss politics per say because it usually ends up just a big clusterfuck and there will always be differences in opinions. Being former military I have a certain attitude about politics because it was not our place to question why but to carry out orders/missions.

Anyways on with it. War is hell. There is nothing good about war, it is all bad. People, innocent civilians, women and children, get killed. People suffer unimaginable tragedies during war. It is uncivilized and ugly. You can't fight a civilized war and expect to win. Having not won a war since Korea is a testiment to that fact. People have to die and suffer in war. Once you take that suffering out of the equation, all you do is prolong an ugly situation with usually no resolution. What I am trying to say is that if the civilian population does not suffer there will in most cases not be a resolution to the conflict. If there are no consequences to war, there is no deterent to going to war. If the Palestinian population does't suffer the brunt of this war, when the fighting is over they will go back to their old ways of supporting Hamas, or at least tolerating them to conduct there own business in Gaza. Yeah it sucks, but that is just the way it is because we live in a ****ed up world. Like I said, war is ****ed up, but in todays world it is still a necessary evil.

Why do we have a resposibility to side with Israel? They are an ally. Plain and simple. But then some ask why we must have an ally in Israel? We, as a global superpower, have an obligation and a duty to the rest of the free world. Some will argue that we should take care of our own first. And yes we also have an obligation and duty to take care of our own, but that doesn't free us from helping those that need it outside of our borders. And taking care of other countries around the world is a duty you can't just shrug off without consequences. In todays global economy, we are also protecting our own interests too.

Like I said, I'm not going to sit here and discuss and argue about everyone's opinions because it ususally ends up in just a display of futility. And yes it is sad that innocent people are suffering but sometimes it is necessary in order for people to change their way of thinking about who and how they associate themselves with. Yes it is a shitty way to make it happen and it is sad, but we live in a sad world. As a soldier you never want to take civilian lives but it happens and you can't let it dictate your combat actions. Yes you would like to insure that doesn't happen, but when it comes to a point of you or me. I'm going to do whatever it takes to complete the mission. When station in Central America in the mid 80's (which I'm not supposed to discuss), I had to do some things that I am not proud of and the horror of those acts still haunt me today. But if I had to do it all over again, I would do it without hesitation. Why? Because it is what we had to do to make the situation right in the end. It's a shitty thought process to justify the means by the end, but it's again, the kind of world we live in today.

Navyman, keep up the good fight. Even though you are a squid breath swabbee, I'm behind you 100%.
 

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Hamas is a terrorist organization. They've been designated as such forever now. Hamas wants to wipe the Jews and Israel off the map and have vowed to do so many times. The fighting tactics they use are terrorist. They ignore cease-fire, use kids as shields, use hospitals, ambulances, schools and mosques as cover to fight from, and even tell the citizens to stay in the war zone so they can use the dead women and children as anti-Israel propaganda, etc.

Fatah leader calls for Israel's destruction: Palestine from river to sea - YouTube

Hamas Leaders speak against Israel - YouTube

Israel warns before they respond to an attack, even dropping leaflets, etc., to get innocent civilians out of the war zone; nobody else does that. HAMAS definitely doesn't. But if they stay to sacrifice themselves for Allah and HAMAS, who's fault is that? Think for a minute...

And somehow, Israel has become the bad guy for fighting back when attacked by Hamas. :facepalm:

The media sucks for helping push the lies and propaganda against Israel.

I really don't understand the hatred and racism against them, but I'm seeing it drummed up at levels I've never seen before. Used to, support for the terrorists was just small groups of ignorant left-wing hippie groups like Code Pink, but since the media turned so left, it's like those small left-wing groups are writing the narratives for the media now. :facepalm:

Not sure if you actually read it in my latest post but I also consider Hamas a terrorist organization. My point is that Israel is not without fault in this whole mess.

I don't ususally discuss politics per say because it usually ends up just a big clusterfuck and there will always be differences in opinions. Being former military I have a certain attitude about politics because it was not our place to question why but to carry out orders/missions.

Anyways on with it. War is hell. There is nothing good about war, it is all bad. People, innocent civilians, women and children, get killed. People suffer unimaginable tragedies during war. It is uncivilized and ugly. You can't fight a civilized war and expect to win. Having not won a war since Korea is a testiment to that fact. People have to die and suffer in war. Once you take that suffering out of the equation, all you do is prolong an ugly situation with usually no resolution. What I am trying to say is that if the civilian population does not suffer there will in most cases not be a resolution to the conflict. If there are no consequences to war, there is no deterent to going to war. If the Palestinian population does't suffer the brunt of this war, when the fighting is over they will go back to their old ways of supporting Hamas, or at least tolerating them to conduct there own business in Gaza. Yeah it sucks, but that is just the way it is because we live in a ****ed up world. Like I said, war is ****ed up, but in todays world it is still a necessary evil.

Why do we have a resposibility to side with Israel? They are an ally. Plain and simple. But then some ask why we must have an ally in Israel? We, as a global superpower, have an obligation and a duty to the rest of the free world. Some will argue that we should take care of our own first. And yes we also have an obligation and duty to take care of our own, but that doesn't free us from helping those that need it outside of our borders. And taking care of other countries around the world is a duty you can't just shrug off without consequences. In todays global economy, we are also protecting our own interests too.

Like I said, I'm not going to sit here and discuss and argue about everyone's opinions because it ususally ends up in just a display of futility. And yes it is sad that innocent people are suffering but sometimes it is necessary in order for people to change their way of thinking about who and how they associate themselves with. Yes it is a shitty way to make it happen and it is sad, but we live in a sad world. As a soldier you never want to take civilian lives but it happens and you can't let it dictate your combat actions. Yes you would like to insure that doesn't happen, but when it comes to a point of you or me. I'm going to do whatever it takes to complete the mission. When station in Central America in the mid 80's (which I'm not supposed to discuss), I had to do some things that I am not proud of and the horror of those acts still haunt me today. But if I had to do it all over again, I would do it without hesitation. Why? Because it is what we had to do to make the situation right in the end. It's a shitty thought process to justify the means by the end, but it's again, the kind of world we live in today.

Navyman, keep up the good fight. Even though you are a squid breath swabbee, I'm behind you 100%.

I agree. Some on here have commented in a different thread about drones and how the collateral damage is killing civilians and I tried to point out that collateral damage is an unavoidable byproduct of war making. Regardless of the method of delivery the outcome is going to be essentially the same the only difference is we won't have to fly the drones back to the US in flag draped caskets.

John
 

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All sissies going to Hell!
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Please, help me out here. Where did 44 say they were just out to kill kids? Where did you read his post and get that conclusion? Nowhere in what he typed did I find anything close to "They just want to kill the kids".

At the end of the day, Hamas using despicable tactics isn't an excuse for Israel to do despicable acts in retaliation. No different then Hamas forming in the first place to combat Israeli treatment of Palestinians. This isn't about finger pointing, and that's all you seem to do.
[/COLOR]
The former Palestinian that works the gas station showed me a video on his phone of beach with a bunch of mangled dead kids on it....Israel knew they were there and continued with the strike to kill the kids. I'm sure there is lots of finger pointing on both sides but the bottom line is 6 year olds are innocent and someone pulled a trigger. I hate them all over there and sucking Israel's pecker for Intel is no excuse. In today's modern world we don't need land to have successful intel in a region anymore. It seems like everything becomes an excuse to create violence and drama and do a lot of finger pointing. They are all guilty of doing harm and all of them need to do something besides trying to find the next excuse to kill.

9 questions about the Israel-Palestine conflict you were too embarrassed to ask - Vox
Helped you out.
 

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Pawsitively sexy
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lmao.

Don't you think that is a bit of a stretch to say 44 meant they were only attacking the kids? I don;t see how you couldn;t have gotten that militants were implied.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 PM ----------

Why do we have a resposibility to side with Israel? They are an ally. Plain and simple. But then some ask why we must have an ally in Israel? We, as a global superpower, have an obligation and a duty to the rest of the free world. Some will argue that we should take care of our own first. And yes we also have an obligation and duty to take care of our own, but that doesn't free us from helping those that need it outside of our borders. And taking care of other countries around the world is a duty you can't just shrug off without consequences. In todays global economy, we are also protecting our own interests too.
Yes, because giving nations overrun with extremists, run by dictators, or countries that just can't seem to stop fight each other weapons is fulfilling that "duty". That is the biggest crock of **** ever. And we look down on other countries for being on the propaganda train. Wow.

And war profiteering doesn't serve "our" needs if you meant "our" as the needs of the typical US citizen. The only needs being fulfilled are the people who were dumping money into an election to get that sweet overseas contract, sanctioned by the people they bought, or in your world "elected".
 

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All sissies going to Hell!
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lmao.

Don't you think that is a bit of a stretch to say 44 meant they were only attacking the kids? I don;t see how you couldn;t have gotten that militants were implied.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 PM ----------



Yes, because giving nations overrun with extremists, run by dictators, or countries that just can't seem to stop fight each other weapons is fulfilling that "duty". That is the biggest crock of **** ever. And we look down on other countries for being on the propaganda train. Wow.

And war profiteering doesn't serve "our" needs if you meant "our" as the needs of the typical US citizen. The only needs being fulfilled are the people who were dumping money into an election to get that sweet overseas contract, sanctioned by the people they bought, or in your world "elected".
Listen, I know you've continually demonstrated failure in reading comprehension, but how much more clear does that need to be?

Where would you have implied that militants were anywhere in that sentence, or the supporting sentences?

It's right there man.

---------- Post added at 12:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------

I don't ususally discuss politics per say because it usually ends up just a big clusterfuck and there will always be differences in opinions. Being former military I have a certain attitude about politics because it was not our place to question why but to carry out orders/missions.

Anyways on with it. War is hell. There is nothing good about war, it is all bad. People, innocent civilians, women and children, get killed. People suffer unimaginable tragedies during war. It is uncivilized and ugly. You can't fight a civilized war and expect to win. Having not won a war since Korea is a testiment to that fact. People have to die and suffer in war. Once you take that suffering out of the equation, all you do is prolong an ugly situation with usually no resolution. What I am trying to say is that if the civilian population does not suffer there will in most cases not be a resolution to the conflict. If there are no consequences to war, there is no deterent to going to war. If the Palestinian population does't suffer the brunt of this war, when the fighting is over they will go back to their old ways of supporting Hamas, or at least tolerating them to conduct there own business in Gaza. Yeah it sucks, but that is just the way it is because we live in a ****ed up world. Like I said, war is ****ed up, but in todays world it is still a necessary evil.

Why do we have a resposibility to side with Israel? They are an ally. Plain and simple. But then some ask why we must have an ally in Israel? We, as a global superpower, have an obligation and a duty to the rest of the free world. Some will argue that we should take care of our own first. And yes we also have an obligation and duty to take care of our own, but that doesn't free us from helping those that need it outside of our borders. And taking care of other countries around the world is a duty you can't just shrug off without consequences. In todays global economy, we are also protecting our own interests too.

Like I said, I'm not going to sit here and discuss and argue about everyone's opinions because it ususally ends up in just a display of futility. And yes it is sad that innocent people are suffering but sometimes it is necessary in order for people to change their way of thinking about who and how they associate themselves with. Yes it is a shitty way to make it happen and it is sad, but we live in a sad world. As a soldier you never want to take civilian lives but it happens and you can't let it dictate your combat actions. Yes you would like to insure that doesn't happen, but when it comes to a point of you or me. I'm going to do whatever it takes to complete the mission. When station in Central America in the mid 80's (which I'm not supposed to discuss), I had to do some things that I am not proud of and the horror of those acts still haunt me today. But if I had to do it all over again, I would do it without hesitation. Why? Because it is what we had to do to make the situation right in the end. It's a shitty thought process to justify the means by the end, but it's again, the kind of world we live in today.

Navyman, keep up the good fight. Even though you are a squid breath swabbee, I'm behind you 100%.
Completely agree devil, and thanks.
 

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Listen, I know you've continually demonstrated failure in reading comprehension, but how much more clear does that need to be?

Where would you have implied that militants were anywhere in that sentence, or the supporting sentences?

It's right there man.

---------- Post added at 12:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------



Completely agree devil, and thanks.
Reading comprehension?

"Israel knew they were there and continued with the strike"

If you can't figure out that means they were collateral, then damn. Talk about reading comprehension.
 

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All sissies going to Hell!
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Reading comprehension?

"Israel knew they were there and continued with the strike"

If you can't figure out that means they were collateral, then damn. Talk about reading comprehension.
Just like you always do, you leave off key words to make your point. Where are the rest of the 4 words in that sentence?

Oh, you left them off........

"TO KILL THE KIDS" is pretty important. Read what's there genius. I made it larger, bolder, underlined it, and even changed the color to make it easier for you. What else do I have to do? A point paper? A tutor?
 

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Pawsitively sexy
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Jesus Christ. If you understood the context of what he was saying at the beginning, the rest doesn't alter anything. It is apparent that there is another reason, and the kids are collateral. Not to mention how pointless this is when, in the end, the guy even said perhaps it was not clear enough, but obviously wasn't meant to be what you made it out to be.

But yet again, here we sit with the deflections. You're arguing intent when, at the end of the day, Israel DID know kids were there and they BOMBED THAT AREA ANYWAY. But that is irrelevant to you. Why?

Is it because they are our friend and friends don't tell on friends?

Is it because Hamas does worse things, so Israel should get free reign to murder?

Is it because Israel got some super important intelligence out of that attack that we so desperately ****ing need?

All of your reasons are crap. They are all "The Government knows what we need more then average people do" responses. This isn't a military ruled state. The best part about it is that you want to keep arguing the details of who attacks who, and you seem to keep missing the part where I don't care. What is going on is irrelevant. My stance is that giving weapons to create "peace" is a giant crock of **** and we shouldn't be financing it anymore. The fine details don't alter that statement.
 

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All sissies going to Hell!
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Jesus Christ. If you understood the context of what he was saying at the beginning, the rest doesn't alter anything. It is apparent that there is another reason, and the kids are collateral. Not to mention how pointless this is when, in the end, the guy even said perhaps it was not clear enough, but obviously wasn't meant to be what you made it out to be.

But yet again, here we sit with the deflections. You're arguing intent when, at the end of the day, Israel DID know kids were there and they BOMBED THAT AREA ANYWAY. But that is irrelevant to you. Why?

Is it because they are our friend and friends don't tell on friends?

Is it because Hamas does worse things, so Israel should get free reign to murder?

Is it because Israel got some super important intelligence out of that attack that we so desperately ****ing need?

All of your reasons are crap. They are all "The Government knows what we need more then average people do" responses. This isn't a military ruled state. The best part about it is that you want to keep arguing the details of who attacks who, and you seem to keep missing the part where I don't care. What is going on is irrelevant. My stance is that giving weapons to create "peace" is a giant crock of **** and we shouldn't be financing it anymore. The fine details don't alter that statement.
You talk about deflections when you create them. You talk about understanding when you have a 1 dimensional view of the situation. You call my reasons crap, but you have to cut things out of sentences to make points. Then you say, the Fine details don't alter that statement?

You're retarded, I weep for your disability. I have no Idea how you got this far in life.

 

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They can all lick my balls over there....I have nothing left constructive to say about those dick holes over there. I know this....their evil jackass ways does a lot to help us Americans become divided here at home. **** em all.

Orders or not, someone ultimately pulls a trigger knowing someone on the other end will be maimed or killed....and too many times it's innocent kids and people.
 

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You talk about deflections when you create them. You talk about understanding when you have a 1 dimensional view of the situation. You call my reasons crap, but you have to cut things out of sentences to make points. Then you say, the Fine details don't alter that statement?

You're retarded, I weep for your disability. I have no Idea how you got this far in life.

Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon)[Forum Weapon][How To Troll][Ignorance Is Bliss] - YouTube
Your maturity is showing.

Seems appropriate for your train of thought- bombs = peace.

And you say you are a history buff...
 
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