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Head Unicorn
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys I'm hoping you 3V specialist can give me a hand. My area of expertise is in the 2V, not the 3V. This question is in regards to my 06 Expedition with the 5.4 3V.

Problem: Started at around 105K miles.... random light tapping on cold starts (and I do mean cold as in 40 degree nights). Within five or ten seconds the noise would disappear.

This noise continued to get longer on cold starts..... up to a minute of noise until it would go away.

The problem all but disappeared 'til it rolled 111K miles last weekend. Now it's constant and unwavering. I know of the cam phaser issues and a few people have mentioned that it's cam phasers but honestly they know dick about engines, they're simply repeating what they've read.

The noise sounds to me like a collapsed lash adjuster (I do know what they sound like in a 2V) as opposed to the "Dieseling" sound I've found on youtube for failed cam phasers. I'm linking a youtube vid of a Mustang with the same noise. My noise, by the way is coming from the passenger side bank.

I've read that datalogging the cam phasers will provide erratic readings if the phaser is in fact the culprit so I'll run a datalog tomorrow. Based on the noise in this video do you think this is phaser or lash adjuster noise?

mustang knock ? - YouTube
 

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Eat Springs, **** Valves
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9,332 Posts
That sounds similar to when I had a torn up lash adjuster and follower. Get a screw driver and put it on the valve cover. Listen along the length of the valve cover and see if the noise gets louder over a certain cylinder, or towards the front of the engine.
 

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Head Unicorn
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That sounds similar to when I had a torn up lash adjuster and follower. Get a screw driver and put it on the valve cover. Listen along the length of the valve cover and see if the noise gets louder over a certain cylinder, or towards the front of the engine.
Yeah, I'm familiar with how to identify the locations of noisy lash adjusters...... I'm wanting input on the particular sound in that video more than anything really. The problem with Modulars is that engine harmonics travel all over the damn things and make it a little harder to diagnose the locations of certain noises. I'm certain the noise is from passenger side bank, but is the sound even close to cam phasers?

I've never heard failing cam phasers in person, but from what I'm hearing on youtube videos failing cam phasers sound like a cummins diesel engine.
 

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Sounds like a lash adjuster to me.
 

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Head Unicorn
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Guys, I appreciate the responses. The videos of Phaser failures are way off of the sounds in the video and way off of the sounds in the wife's Expedition. I'll be ordering 12 lash adjusters so I have enough to replace the entire bank when I pull the cam cover. I'll repost with a fix or no fix when I get around to doing this in the next week or so. Thanks again guys!
 

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Eat Springs, **** Valves
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Guys, I appreciate the responses. The videos of Phaser failures are way off of the sounds in the video and way off of the sounds in the wife's Expedition. I'll be ordering 12 lash adjusters so I have enough to replace the entire bank when I pull the cam cover. I'll repost with a fix or no fix when I get around to doing this in the next week or so. Thanks again guys!
Before you order, I would pull the valve cover off and check the followers. I never expected to find this when I pulled my valve cover:

 

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Head Unicorn
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Jesus H........ I assure you it will be traded the same day if I find a galled cam lobe. I've been putting off buying her a new Exped 'til I get a new house built, but.........................
 

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Eat Springs, **** Valves
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Notice the discolored follower underneath. That thing was ****ED. It wasn't that big of a deal to fix. $400 in parts to replace all 24 lash adjusters and followers, and my cams were replaced under warranty. I rodered the parts from tousleyfordparts.com. You could throw a set of stock mustang cams in the truck. They are all over the place for dirt cheap. I've got a set I'd be willing to send you for the cost of shipping if that were the case.

Just me, but I'd feel pretty shitty dropping that mess on someone else by trading it in.
 

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Head Unicorn
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Oh, I know they're out there and cheap.... but 110K miles for my wife and kids is getting excessive. Before I lauch into that I'd probably just band-aid it and trade that bitch for a new one. However, I'll keep you in mind if that ends up becoming a possibility.

Did you find what galled the lobe? Did the roller seize in the follower?
 

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Eat Springs, **** Valves
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110K miles on a modular V8 is nothing lol. I worked on a Navigator with a 3V at work a few months back. It was a trade in from our used cars dept and had almost 300k on the clock. I regularly see 4.6 and 5.4s come in with 200k+. I'm sure you know that, but just thought I'd throw it out there.

I had a seized lifter and the cam beat the **** out of the roller. It ended up completely blown out. Had about an 1/8 in of run out.
 

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Head Unicorn
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yeah, I know they'll last. I'm die hard Ford and have owned many Modular powered Fords. That being said I'm not going to nurse a 110K mile seven year old vehicle for the wife to haul three kids. I've been on the verge of buying her one but I'm about to launch into building another house. The last thing I need is to throw my debt to credit ratio out of whack. All of my vehicles are paid for and it's nice not having any payments when you're in the midst of a mortgage.
 

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I believe some of the earlier 3 valve heads had needle bearing failure in followers if my memory serves correct. Not real common, but that was the case. I also remember reading that the same earlier heads had some lash adjusters collapse which sounds like could be your problem.

When you get the new lash adjusters soak them in a container of motor oil overnight and leave them there until the install. If you need any specialty tools for the job shoot me a PM.
 

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Head Unicorn
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5,085 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Update:

I ordered 3 lash adjusters and 3 followers a little while ago, they should be here tomorrow. I almost **** my pants when he told me $70 for a pair of valve cover gaskets. I guess I'll have to **** someone in the ass with the left over gasket whenever I work on a 3V for someone.
 

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Hardon Enthusiast
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the gasket should be reusable...just a little RTV where it meets the timing cover to prevent a leak.
 

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Head Unicorn
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
the gasket should be reusable...just a little RTV where it meets the timing cover to prevent a leak.
I agree it should be. Most likely will be. But it'll be replaced regardless. It's easier to do it while it's apart rather than remove it and do it again. If it was someone else's vehicle I may re-use at their request, but It's my wife's ride that I don't particularly care to ever wrench on after this.
 

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Administrator
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I agree it should be. Most likely will be. But it'll be replaced regardless. It's easier to do it while it's apart rather than remove it and do it again. If it was someone else's vehicle I may re-use at their request, but It's my wife's ride that I don't particularly care to ever wrench on after this.
I think most people just reuse them since they aren't the old school type of gasket, its just a rubber ring insert and some RTV. Replace at your own discretion I suppose.
 

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Just re-use the old gasket with a dab of rtv where the timing cover meets the heads like previously stated.
 
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