[02BlueMustangGT]

Hey guys, been gone awhile. Posted a lot here before. After years of fun, the mustang started showing her age. Its had a new clutch and flywheel put in, but the trans continued on a downward slope of loud clanks, grinding, and overall shifty handling.

I was about to get back on the road with her, but i stopped after the first ride. Ive known it likely needed a rebuild, but when I heard the trans make a scratching/grinding noise while moving, i knew sitting for so long must have finally let her get bad enough to warrant it.

I've posted a link to a short video showing the trans and her condition, and explaining the noise. All the bad noises have definitely been from the trans, and i checked that nothing was rubbing the (still newish) aluminum driveshaft.

I plan to pull the trans apart and rebuild with new a new bearing and likely synchro kit (p/n BK255WS).

Before I do, could any of you transmission gurus (certified or self-proclaimed lol) check out my vid, and give me some opinions?

https://youtu.be/2c1koL_G6Mc

 

[bodyshot]

http://www.pro-forceperformance.com/Downloads/TR3650 Service Manual.pdf

Well your going to need this.

The TR3650 is pretty easy to rebuild and it looks like you have input and output end play. This excessive end play can ware the main shaft and counter shaft gears unevenly causing them to be noisy for good. They may be strong as ever but they will never be quiet again. Your bearings should be replaced if your rebuilding and you will need a shim kit to re-shim the input and counter gear. Once the trans is apart you can post pictures of the slider and gear syncornizr teeth. I can let you know if they can be reused. Get new syncornizr sets for 1-2 3-4 and new fork pads. Use brass pads if the car is driven infrequently and hard shifted often. If it is a daily driver then get the polymer pads they will last way longer.

You will need a press or a way to use a vice for getting the main shaft apart and getting the bearings off. You will also need a magnetic dial indicator for measurements, a socket set, and a good set of snap ring pliers. Other than that this manual is really well written and should get you all the way through the re-build

 

[03FR500]

Just sitting is not going to cause it, that's false thinking. It happened slowly over time and now it just stands out to you more since you haven't driven it for a while. That's beside the point though.

I rebuilt my 3650 a couple of summers ago with a bearing rebuild kit. My input/output shaft play was worse than yours. I'd never rebuilt a trans before but if you have a moderate amount of mechanical ability and can read a schematic then you can do it too. A good bearing puller and/or press will help but you don't need much more than that. I have a different computer now and don't have any of my documents on this one that I used or from where I bought the rebuild kit from. I replaced second gear and the synchros too but didn't really need to. Just do it while I had it apart kind of deal. All parts cost about $300.

Edit: To emphasize what BodyShot said about a good set of snap ring pliers. Buy the best ones you can get. I bout the $15 Lisle 44900, and they got the job done, but I wish I had spent more and got a better set. I used a dial dedicator with a clamp jaw because the case of the trans is aluminum, didn't know what I'd put a magnetic one on.

 

[02BlueMustangGT]

Thanks guys, I do have the rebuild manual already downloaded and printed, looks to have a great deal of useful info. I plan to wash the case and break into the tailshaft portion tonight and at least see what the insides are looking like. I do have plans to purchase a budget 12ton press and bearing separator, plus any add'l tools needed. I bought a set of Channellock ring pliers; also have the punches needed as well. Also read through the manual twice to get a feel for it all. I am definitely mechanically minded but this will still be one of my bigger projects to date, but nothing impossible. I'll be fine if i can get the proper tools and keep myself clean and organized.

That makes sense 03FR, I'm sure I eventually tuned these noises out and why it seemed so much more pronounced the few times I drove it again.

Hopefully, there isn't too much internal damage and things can be rebuilt nicely. I'll keep posting photos and/or videos as I go along.

Where can I get the shim kits from?

edit: Also, does anyone know what the part is called that connect the ends of the k-brace together? it is a tubular bar, flattened on the ends, about 2.5-3ft long that runs under the bellhousing/block. Mine has been hit so many times it is flattened out and bent like a crooked smile. No idea what the part is officially called or where I can buy a replacement

 

[bodyshot]

Just sitting is not going to cause it, that's false thinking. It happened slowly over time and now it just stands out to you more since you haven't driven it for a while. That's beside the point though.

I rebuilt my 3650 a couple of summers ago with a bearing rebuild kit. My input/output shaft play was worse than yours. I'd never rebuilt a trans before but if you have a moderate amount of mechanical ability and can read a schematic then you can do it too. A good bearing puller and/or press will help but you don't need much more than that. I have a different computer now and don't have any of my documents on this one that I used or from where I bought the rebuild kit from. I replaced second gear and the synchros too but didn't really need to. Just do it while I had it apart kind of deal. All parts cost about $300.

Edit: To emphasize what BodyShot said about a good set of snap ring pliers. Buy the best ones you can get. I bout the $15 Lisle 44900, and they got the job done, but I wish I had spent more and got a better set. I used a dial dedicator with a clamp jaw because the case of the trans is aluminum, didn't know what I'd put a magnetic one on.

For the Magnetic dial indicator I used a flat steel bar across the shifter housing held down by the shifter bolts and fender washers but I'm sure it can be done many ways.

---------- Post added at 12:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 PM ----------

Thanks guys, I do have the rebuild manual already downloaded and printed, looks to have a great deal of useful info. I plan to wash the case and break into the tailshaft portion tonight and at least see what the insides are looking like. I do have plans to purchase a budget 12ton press and bearing separator, plus any add'l tools needed. I bought a set of Channellock ring pliers; also have the punches needed as well. Also read through the manual twice to get a feel for it all. I am definitely mechanically minded but this will still be one of my bigger projects to date, but nothing impossible. I'll be fine if i can get the proper tools and keep myself clean and organized.

That makes sense 03FR, I'm sure I eventually tuned these noises out and why it seemed so much more pronounced the few times I drove it again.

Hopefully, there isn't too much internal damage and things can be rebuilt nicely. I'll keep posting photos and/or videos as I go along.

Where can I get the shim kits from?

edit: Also, does anyone know what the part is called that connect the ends of the k-brace together? it is a tubular bar, flattened on the ends, about 2.5-3ft long that runs under the bellhousing/block. Mine has been hit so many times it is flattened out and bent like a crooked smile. No idea what the part is officially called or where I can buy a replacement

I have no Idea what that part is called. (K Member Brace???) I get all my parts from Hanlon and Liberty Gears

 

[02BlueMustangGT]

Ok guys, I've started on tearing down the rear tail housing yesterday after work. Had a hell of a time getting the speedo gear to pull off squarely, but even more so... damn these C-clips! I thought they were gonna be standard snap rings, but these guys are a pain. I understand the snap ring pliers suggestions from above.

Does anyone have a trick or tip they figured out to make this easier? There is no where to get a decent grip with the snap ring pliers, and I'm slipping them like crazy. I got lucky with the speedo gear clip after 20 minutes or so of fighting, but got stuck again on the fifth gear clip.

 

[03FR500]

I used combinations of flat blade screwdrivers, punches, and all kinds of stuff to help get the snap rings off along with the pliers. Sometimes the gear or whatever they are holding onto the shaft is pressed against the snap ring tightly and prevents you from being able to use the pliers to spread them apart. Helps to take a punch and hit the snap ring a bit to create some space so you can pry them apart more easily.

 

[ZEN357]

Honestly, before I would rebuild a Tremec 3650 which is flawed, I would replace it with the Tremec TKO600....

https://www.jegs.com/i/Hurst-Driveline-Conversions/518/TCET5008/10002/-1

You can actually get the whole kit with the transmission from American Power Train...

Specialty Performance Parts, 5 and 6 speed Transmission Conversions and Accessories | American Power Train

 

[03FR500]

Honestly, before I put a TKO600 which is sub-par, I would replace it with a Quaife sequential gearbox.
https://shop.quaife.co.uk/ford-mustang-coyote-six-speed-heavy-duty-sequential-gearbox
It's only $12,000 compared to the $2500 you'd spend on a TKO600 and the $300 you'd spend on a rebuild kit for such a flawed TR3650 transmission.
LOL.

 

[ZEN357]

He asked for opinion. You don't need to be sarcastic. I have an 01 Bullitt and have done the research. The 3650 does have flaws compared to the TKO600. Sorry if my opinion offended you, but you don't need to act that way towards fellow members.

 

[bodyshot]

Honestly, before I would rebuild a Tremec 3650 which is flawed, I would replace it with the Tremec TKO600....

https://www.jegs.com/i/Hurst-Driveline-Conversions/518/TCET5008/10002/-1

You can actually get the whole kit with the transmission from American Power Train...

Specialty Performance Parts, 5 and 6 speed Transmission Conversions and Accessories | American Power Train

Do you have any experience with the TKO 600???

I do... and I have one for sale, $1,200, brand new rebuild with Hanlon motorsports modified shift finger, Carbon Fiber Blocker Rings, and new fork pads, Liberty Gears modified shift rails, and detent springs. The gears were fully de-burred and trans has all new seals. Re-shimmed as the input shaft was out .040 from Tramec (made in Mexico baby). Comes with a QuickTime bell housing (scatter shield), FRPP aluminum DS, Stifflers trans cross member, lightened steel 8 bolt flywheel and a brand new FRPP clutch fork.

Come get it

 

[02BlueMustangGT]

Yeah ive looked at new replacements, and honestly i feel a rebuild is best for me (im cheap af)

I'd sell the car as is before i spent 2500 on a transmission alone, theres way too much else to be done to dump that much in a single item! thanks for the suggestions, again all input is appreciated.

Yall check out my update vids below, and tell me if im not right about these bearings... sorry about the multiple vids.

https://youtu.be/QI3QsNkGyew - Gear Condition
https://youtu.be/xA7tw3X5CpE - Bearings
https://youtu.be/QwXSD4pKBZU - Gear Slack

 

[07gtS197]

Zen you do realize the tko is a t5 based aftermarket transmission right? So Id hope its better than one that was massed produced in a production car... it still does have its issues, one huge problem being hard to shift which the tr3650 is not. Not to mention youd have to buy the right bellhousing just to get it to bolt up to a mod motor in the first place. Id pass and I recommend the same for the op.

 

[02BlueMustangGT]

Extra update::::

I removed the shift forks and pulled the main and counter shafts...

Bearings there look the same as the other ends of the shaft, and i also discovered a broken spring in the synchro where the input shaft meets the main shaft (the three small square pads, with small springs putting pressure on them)

I pulled the main and input shafts and kept them pressed together to hold all the springs in place, looks like I'll need to track down some new springs as well

 

[bodyshot]

Yeah ive looked at new replacements, and honestly i feel a rebuild is best for me (im cheap af)

I'd sell the car as is before i spent 2500 on a transmission alone, theres way too much else to be done to dump that much in a single item! thanks for the suggestions, again all input is appreciated.

Yall check out my update vids below, and tell me if im not right about these bearings... sorry about the multiple vids.

https://youtu.be/QI3QsNkGyew - Gear Condition
https://youtu.be/xA7tw3X5CpE - Bearings
https://youtu.be/QwXSD4pKBZU - Gear Slack

There is no way I can tell you if those gear are worn or burned in that video but if the transmission was quiet I wouldn't worry about them.

The bearings look So So I would definitely replace them but you will see that the new parts are a bit sloppy in all directions as well. Again if the transmission was quiet they have life left but if the trans was whining one or more is shot.

Your not going to be able to tell if you have proper gear backlash with it all apart like that. Check backlash when your re-assembling.

---------- Post added at 08:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 AM ----------

Zen you do realize the tko is a t5 based aftermarket transmission right? So Id hope its better than one that was massed produced in a production car... it still does have its issues, one huge problem being hard to shift which the tr3650 is not. Not to mention youd have to buy the right bellhousing just to get it to bolt up to a mod motor in the first place. Id pass and I recommend the same for the op.

The TKO is great for a pushrod car where a guy wants a 5 speed and wont take it over 6K RPM. Other than that its JUNK!!! I would take a T5 world class over a TKO any day. Unless I absolutely needed the strength of the TKO.

 

[02BlueMustangGT]

There wasn't any major gear whine going on, just more of the scrubbing/scratching noises (i presume from bearings) and some clunks & clanks. The synchros really dont look too bad to me, but i have no reference as to what is good or bad. There is still material on the synchros and no broken/worn teeth.

Obviously, the least i can do to get it back in good shape is the way i want to go. Thanks for the input guys, I want to be sure I'm only doing what necessary. The rear end will be next..

 

[07gtS197]

Exactly my point bodyshot, they arent that great and for being an upgraded trans they sure do have a lot of complaints. Even if I had a pushrod Id skip the tko and build a t5 and thats if I keep it as a street car. It seems that zen is paid to promote the tko or something the way he talks about it lol.

 

[Snorky]

My trans makes a scratching rattling noise under 1700 rpm in every gear. Once over that, it seems smooth and quiet. I can bang gears and it runs great, even with the power levels I am making. I question if the noise is a byproduct of me dogging the car up steep hills at idle speeds when I had the cams, blower and 4.10's. I would cruise up steep hills at like 35 mph in 5th st like 1300 rpm. It does it in every gear dogging it at low rpm though. So I just ignored it and keep on driving it. It is definitely audible though.

 

[02BlueMustangGT]

Alright guys, think I've decided where to go with this. Judging by what I've found, I'm going to replace the bearings/seals/fork pads with this rebuild kit, then shim it out and replace the 3-4 synchro keys & springs. Put it back together, run some fluid, then change again.

Since things don't look as bad as i expected, I'll do just that and then move on to rebuilding the rear end (probably changing these 4.10's for 3.73 or less likely 3.55, don't think they were set up correctly when installed)

Gonna order these parts + a budget shop press for all these jobs, and let ya'll know how it goes. Appreciate the help so far fellas

 

[bodyshot]

Alright guys, think I've decided where to go with this. Judging by what I've found, I'm going to replace the bearings/seals/fork pads with this rebuild kit, then shim it out and replace the 3-4 synchro keys & springs. Put it back together, run some fluid, then change again.

Since things don't look as bad as i expected, I'll do just that and then move on to rebuilding the rear end (probably changing these 4.10's for 3.73 or less likely 3.55, don't think they were set up correctly when installed)

Gonna order these parts + a budget shop press for all these jobs, and let ya'll know how it goes. Appreciate the help so far fellas

All good but your missing an absolutely critical replacement part and that is the blocker ring sets. I STRONGLY suggest replacing at least 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 blocker rings. Your transmission will shift like it did new as long as the slider ring teeth and gear teeth are in good shape. You have this thing wide open do not miss the chance to replaced the blocker rings man.