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Discussion Starter #1
So American Muscle finally decided to start carrying these snow performance meth/water kits.

I'm trying to decide which is right/good for me.

2000 GT
Automatic
11psi Vortech
418 HP now

I basically just want to keep it cool and have that 418 HP when its warm out(I don't want anymore power for obvious reasons), and because as we all know warm weather/pulls timing/isn't good.

So I'm trying to see which one is good...

http://www.americanmuscle.com/snow-p...ce-stage1.html

http://www.americanmuscle.com/snow-p...ce-stage2.html

Thanks for the info/help
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Neither one of those links work.

418rwhp through an auto @ 11psi is really good. Why not just intercool it? Its always there, dont have to re fill it or worry about it not spraying.

You can put togeather an intercooler kit for $250.

One of the good meth kits, is the AIS stage 2 kit. Stal ran it on his GT, it was setup nice. Had an indicator light for when it was spraying, and a low fluid level sensor.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I just don't feel like hacking up my bumper support and relocating the MAF and all that stuff

I was actually looking at the Devils Own kit

DVC-30 Water-Methanol injection system Devilsown

, and was going to put an activation LED and a low fluid LED around my boost gauge, but then found out american muscle was selling kits now, so I was looking into them
 

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You wont have to do much man. I mounted mine in front of the radiator, and it had tabs on it and screwed it into the radiator support. Relocating the MAF was nothing, its acually in the same spot as it used to be, just a blow through MAF



But you can leave it as a draw through setup as well. You dont have to swap to a blow through.

Like I said, I would look into the AIS stage 2 kit. The kit comes with stainless braided lines, some other **** I havent looked at it in a while. But its very nice quality. Ive never heard of the one you posted.
 

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deff deff go with ais. rodney is the best guy for sizing nozzles up plus it runs the larges pump out there so running multiple nozzles is cake. he also uses a check valve so the tank does not get sucked dry on light loads. best combo to run is the tri nozle. for the lower boost i would run a small pre jet to cool the intake charge at the source. then run 2 jets about 12-14 inches down from the tb. running 2 small post jets helps the meth atomise and leaves less chance of puddling.
 

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i also ran a ic with my meth combo and it was perfect for hot summer days. i live in florida and the hottest my iat's ever got in the middle of summer with 90+ degrees was 84 degrees. during the winter frost would build up on my ic pipe.
 

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Why don't you want more power? ....it's not obvious to me.

If I were you I'd throw on a meth kit (can't advise between those two, I have a labonte...very happy by the way) ....... Find a very good tuner, up the boost a few psi and get yourself a nice 40-50 extra horse.

PS...for those guys talking about intercoolers, maybe they are on forged blocks or something. It was explained to me several times, and no unfortunately I can't reiterate, that the meth would be much better for the stock block than the intercooler.
 

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you can never have to much cooling. i did run a built block and i spun the snot out of my v3 si. to have iat's as low as i got was almost unheard of considering the air pumping out of the head unit in the middle of the summer was 250+ degrees.
 

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I have had the snow performance kit for a while now. It helps but mostly just with the tune. As long as your tuner knows how to tune with it then it is a good thing. If you buy the kit, make sure your tuner bumps up the timing only but make sure they check your plugs to make sure it's now burning to hot. Alot of the time if you don't have a tuner guy that knows what they are doing they will try to tune the car like its got more fuel, and thats how they blow your crap up.

On a intercooled setup they really help if you spray at or around the intercooler. It will help with the heat soak. I spray mine at the elbow where it goes into the throttle body.
 

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Why don't you want more power? ....it's not obvious to me.

If I were you I'd throw on a meth kit (can't advise between those two, I have a labonte...very happy by the way) ....... Find a very good tuner, up the boost a few psi and get yourself a nice 40-50 extra horse.

PS...for those guys talking about intercoolers, maybe they are on forged blocks or something. It was explained to me several times, and no unfortunately I can't reiterate, that the meth would be much better for the stock block than the intercooler.
Hes already making 411rwhp, adding more boost and 40-50rwhp on the stock motor with no supporting mods (cams/heads) is not a good idea. At all. Regardless if the IAT is lower, still making too much boost and to much power on the stock motor.

If I was him, on that power level and what not, I would go with an intercooler, and drop the pulley down 1 size. 11psi on a non intercooled setup is a lot. Those IAT's must be up there. Thats just my opinion, either one will work out fine.
 

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A 31x12x3 cxracing intercooler will fit right behind your bumper support. You don't need to cut anything. The only think you may have to cut is some of the piping to align them properly. What maf do you currently have? You can keep it in the same location if you want to stay draw thru. Do you have a bigger bypass valve like a Vortech mini race/maxflow? If not, you'll need one. If you don't want to make anymore power just want it to be available all the time then keep your existing pulley. You'll loose 2 psi through the intercooler, but the cooler air and increased timing will make up for that.
 

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Hes already making 411rwhp, adding more boost and 40-50rwhp on the stock motor with no supporting mods (cams/heads) is not a good idea. At all. Regardless if the IAT is lower, still making too much boost and to much power on the stock motor.

If I was him, on that power level and what not, I would go with an intercooler, and drop the pulley down 1 size. 11psi on a non intercooled setup is a lot. Those IAT's must be up there. Thats just my opinion, either one will work out fine.
Correct. I believe the OP does have VT Stage 1 cams, but adding more power isn't really the answer. Having that rwhp available all the time instead of suffering from heat soak is a good idea at 11psi.
 

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Exactly. Even if he does have cams, that motor with more boost and more power is not a good idea. Keeping the IAT's down and maybe picking up a couple horsepower from that, is fine. But not adding more boost, or putting a **** load more timing into it.

The death of these motors is detonation. Running 11lbs with a non intercooled setup (or meth) is like playing with a grenade.
 

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tuning in meth is part the tuner and the owner. proper size jets is the key to getting a safe tune. rule of thumb dont spray so much meth you af drops more than 1 point. easy way to exlpain the tune is get a base run down to set your fuel trims and get a idea of your iat's. without a ic your temps will get pretty hot so your tuner will probably set your tune to start pulling timing at 100 degrees and have all the timing pulled out by 110 degrees. this is the saftey for your meth. as for the af meth shows up as fuel so jet sizing and meth mix percentage is key and you cant really change the mix once your tuned in. some people run boost juice or washer fluid. i mixed my own cause it was cheap. i ran 2 gal meth and 1 gal water for a stronger mix. your tuner will have to pull out fuel so this is where everything has to be done right. say the meth drops your af down 1 point so a good safe tune would be 11.5 - 11.6 af on meth. incase it does not spray your af will lean to 12.5-12.6 but that is ok since your tune is written to pull the timing back. running 12.5 af with 10-12 degrees timing is perfectly safe, but be sure to have a warning light to tell you your system is not working so you can fix it. i always got a back up tune that was for not meth incase i had to keep the system off for any reason. meth is a great way to keep your car safe. it combats bad tanks of gas and the stupid ethanol mix fuels. in alot of ways it is better than a ic but it does not mean a ic is not a good idea. like i stated before i ran both and i ran 20 degrees timing with lots of boost
 

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I am at a loss why you guys think 411 rwhp is all a stock block is capable of. He can get more safely, it's been do sooo many times, safely, over many many miles. Any good tuner will tell you that.

Furthermore, why exactly are you guys trying to talk him into an IC? He's asking about Meth....and meth will accomplish exactly what he wants as well if not better than the IC. And there's added benefits of running the Meth. Only downside is having to fill it occasionally, which is honestly no big deal and done rather infrequently. (I personally converted my windshield wiper tank to hold the meth, holds a large amount)
 

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OP: if you have e85 in your area i'd suggest doing that over meth.
 

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intercooler > meth > aftercooler
 

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I am at a loss why you guys think 411 rwhp is all a stock block is capable of. He can get more safely, it's been do sooo many times, safely, over many many miles. Any good tuner will tell you that.

Furthermore, why exactly are you guys trying to talk him into an IC? He's asking about Meth....and meth will accomplish exactly what he wants as well if not better than the IC. And there's added benefits of running the Meth. Only downside is having to fill it occasionally, which is honestly no big deal and done rather infrequently. (I personally converted my windshield wiper tank to hold the meth, holds a large amount)
the stock internals WILL fail at any higher hp. The "block" can withstand just about anything you can throw at it. All of us who have been running boost long enough know its just a matter of time.

as far as getting the intercooler.... its up to what the OP wants. I ran a NON-intercooled novi 2000 kit with the stage 2 Snow kit and it got me an extra 20 rwhp. So yes it does work.
 
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