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Discussion Starter #1
Continue.... Without any flaming please.

Well, the stock Coyote makes it's peak 412hp at 6500 rpm. That means that at 6500 rpm, the motor is making a tick over 330 lb-ft. If you could get the motor to be making 405tq at 6500 rpm, you'd have 500hp at the crank. If you could get it to 456tq at 6500rpm, you should be right at about 500 at the wheels.

The other option is chasing rpm. Assuming you only lost 30 lb-ft from 6500rpm to 8500, you could make 485 at the crank just by spinning it that fast. If you could maintain 330 lb-ft out to 9000, you'd make 500 to the ground (565 at the crank).

Now, how long the motor's gonna last spinnning it to 9k, I couldn't say.
Camshafts in these vehicles are not as potent as they have been in previous years. I watched a video of a can install and a dyno run with stage two cams and they provided little benefit for what money is spent. I'm confident that with long tubes, off road x, good cat back, ported heads ( also keep in mind that some of the phase lockers don't work...hence why a can install inst a plus)...have to have the Boss intake for a little more juice on the dyno...a good tune...should be damn close. I see cars making 440whp off of a good tune and a good exhaust setup...throw in some 101 oct and your there man
Noe please keep in mind that as far as the cams I can only go off of what I've seen...I'd love to hear how they actually work out should anyone have them installed
Do Coyote heads respond to porting?
This 100%.

Take the price of cams and headers(+ install if you can't do it yourself) and guess where it lands you? Right in supercharger territory. Then throw in getting ported heads and lifters, you might as well have went s/c without having to dig into the engine.
Now, don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to have a N/A beast as well, been debating it for a while, and the money just keeps adding up, and up, and up. By the time you hit your 500hp goal(I'm assuming to the ground) why not "cheat" and just put a s/c on it... or hell really cheat and throw some nitrous on it. I know you are just trying to see how it's possible, but these are the reasons most haven't done it.
Sure with cams, heads and e-85......and headers........ so dohc means four camshafts...so....

Cams,1100+ heads, 2000+ headers, midpioe,1200+ boss manifold,(although cj manifold would be better) 400+ cai, 350

$5050 So far..... still need tuning..

Also an alum Ds would help out a good bit.

5k for 100 hp?


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I'm more impressed by a 500 rwhp all motor than an fi 500 rwhp car.


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The Comp Cams and the Boss manifold are not a great match. I experienced major idle problems and had two of the top tuners in the country try everything in their knowledge with no positive outcome. I deleted the Boss and installed the Roush 625hp TVS. A match made in heaven:D
I agree that a 500 n/a is 10x more impressive than a 500 f/i... but practicality, not so much.
They have an 500 n/a package: TOP DOGJPC 2011 COYOTE 500HP PACKAGE - Justin's Performance Center. But for a few dollars(yea just $5 more hahaha) you could have a TVS that has the potential for a crap ton more than the n/a. Also, car being down a weekend vs weeks is something some people have to consider.
I have done it. Idles fine. Car runs unbelievable. People that say just slap on a supercharger are missing the point. A supercharger does not work so good at the track. first lap - 650 rwhp, second lap - 570 third lap - 520, fourth lap pull into pits because of temperature issues. if you want to drag race, chase a number or smoke the tires at stoplights, then a blower is the way to go. But if you want to build a car for the track the blower is not going to work so good. Everyone I know who runs a blower runs hot. Car does not handle the track or bumper to bumper traffic. One guy I know melted his coolant overflow tank. BTW this N/A build is a lot cheaper since I did it.

Also the reliability of the N/A build cannot be beat. I went forged internals, but I did not have to. It is just that I run Southern Cal desert tracks at high heat and I wanted the added reliability. I ran Willow Springs at 102 degrees and all the blown cars were in the pits with their hoods up spitting up fluid. I ran at normal temps. (the tiger racing hood helps a lot too). This is a straight up handling hot rod. A high rpm screamer with over 600 flywheel horsepower that is bulletproof. It was easy to tune, easy to drive, no heat problems, never throws a code. If that is not enough, I don't know what to tell you. just listen: 2011 Mustang GT Load Bearing Dyno Run 520 RWHP 7700RPM - YouTube
If you do not build out the shortblock: $1500 for bumpsticks, $800-1600, ported heads, $160 for valve springs, $450 for Boss Intake, $1200 for long tubes and x pipe. Plus another $1500 for labor and for the price of a blower you will have a high rpm track ready 615flywheel horsepower screamer. In fact, you will have virtually the exact same horespower, torque and vehicle weight of a Ferrari GTB Fiorano. I think that is a very good deal, don't you?
I don't, but if you check out the mustangsdaily article it pretty much tells you everything I have. Also, many parts are listed in my profile. Not listed is the Full tilt boogie two piece rotors and the mm caster camber plates. The comp cams are stage two. I do not recommend going to stage three for a daily driver. The livernois head porting is a stage one. I recommend the boss valve springs . They are cheap. Boss oil cooler is a must. If you want to rev the crap out of it you may want to break down the short block and remove the oil squirters. I believe that a whole Boss forged rotating assembly is around 1500-$1600. A complete built short block is around 3200-3500.
I have similar thoughts brewing in my head the last moth or so.

MMR 900, JPC heads, Stage 3 cams, and a wee bit more compression.

...And a little button that says "GO, BABY! GO!" ;)
I think that would be a great setup! But Stage three cams will cause a distinct lack of response and idle issues on the low end. great for exclusive high end applications though. I considered going higher compression on the pistons however, we got crappy 91 octane gas in CA and I was already pushing it given that I was one of the first if not the first private party to do this type of build. If you got 93-94 available then go for the high compression pistons. If not, it might be safer to stick to stock. It won't be like you will be underpowered or anything. Once you go this route, i promise you, you will not be sorry. Just make sure it is done right. That is the hardest part.
This is the hood during wind tunnel testing for Ford racing on a Boss 302S. According to people at Ford racing, the hood was worth 20-30 degrees of temperature and 9 mph at the end of the straight at Fontana Motor Speedway. Having driven the car with the hood, I believe it. Definitely helps the car breath better, helps downforce, helps drag, helps airflow through the engine compartment in a big way. Not like those stupid little vents you see on the new 2013 hoods.

Boss 302S Wind Tunnel Testing - YouTube
like someone else said the boss heads are in another leauge...why not buy the boss heads?

Ford Racing BOSS 302R Cylinder Head - LH (11-13 GT) M-6050-M50BR - Free Shipping!


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First, because the Livernois ported heads outflow the Boss heads not by a little but by a lot. Flow numbers are somewhere on the internet. Second, The boss heads employ some different metallurgy but when was the last time a head cracked on it's own. If you blow a rod, I don't care what type of metal you use in the head, it's going to go. So the boss head superiority is more of a distinction without a difference. The only thing I though was critical to carry over was to use the Boss Valve Springs since they had been tested by Ford to regularly go above 8000 rpm.
I just walked a Mercedes SLS AMG. he had really nice forged wheels. I on the other hand do not need 4500 dollar forged wheels to make my life or the build complete. They are just not worth it to me. I am not even getting them for the track. Don't need them. I think that is more for show and bragging. I live in the car. Not in the wheels. I made my choices within my budget. You might make different choices. I will take the hardcore porn that is my interior to add to the driving experience over whatever incremental performance advantage a Forged wheel would give me. Did not help that 212,000 dollar Mercedes. I would sure hate to hit a berm or a curb at the track or on the street, and bend a 1200 dollar wheel. I dropped beaucoup bucks in this car. I had to draw a line somewhere. Plus, I like the way the Forgestars look and they are a quality wheel. The money was better spent on a Torsen T2-r, the Pilot Super Sports, the Cortex Watts link, the Koni's, the Boss Springs, the Caster Camber Plates, not too many cars will out handle this one, forged wheels or not. But I know that reasonable minds can differ on stuff like this. it is all a matter of personal taste. Some men value tits. Others prefer legs. Bumpsteer kit is not as crucial since I switched from the Steeda Sport Springs to the boss 302 springs. I am now closer to stock ride height so geometry is more or less correct with or without the bumpsteer kit. It worked when I needed it though.
Oh yes...

TEA has a version offered already. 300cfms at just 500 lift!

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Don't BAAAAH 'Til Goatsday
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6,530 Posts
Yayyyyyyyyy.

This is my bulid list if I do N/A

shortblock: 1500
ported heads: 1500
Stage 2 cams: 1500
boss 302 valve springs: 160
Boss Intake and new JLT or steeda CIA :700.
Tune: 500 (well just a throw out.)

About 6000 with me over pricing it all. With me doing all the labor. For about 500+ WHP N/A. If I have ashop do it all I can see the price tag going up to about 9000.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm considering a N/A build with my Boss.

I say it's a build but it would only be bolt ons...

Accufab TB
Bassani LT's, O/R X-Pipe.
Steeda Boss Intake
Shaftmasters DS

I don't think cams on my car would benefit me much.... I reckon this would put me up to close to 460......

If I didn't like it I could throw a paxton on there I guess..... But I'm also infatuated with win turbos....knowing my car can handle 14 psi....which would be roughly 800+ to the wheels.....

Yayyyyyyyyy.

This is my bulid list if I do N/A

shortblock: 1500
ported heads: 1500
Stage 2 cams: 1500
boss 302 valve springs: 160
Boss Intake and new JLT or steeda CIA :700.
Tune: 2000 (well just a throw out.)

About 7500 with me over pricing it all. With me doing all the labor. For about 500+ WHP N/A. If I have ashop do it all I can see the price tag going up to about 9000.

Maybe I"m missing something but why would the tune be $2000?
$500 is much closer I would think..... Unless you're including the labor for all the parts...
 

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Don't BAAAAH 'Til Goatsday
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6,530 Posts
Thats were the boss with forged internals has the advantage.

See I want a long life out of my bulid. I'm not sold on FI with a long life span.

Maybe I"m missing something but why would the tune be $2000?
$500 is much closer I would think..... Unless you're including the labor for all the parts...
Yeah I way over estimated.

I already have LT's and a SCT tuner.
 

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I can confirm what Barbaro said about stock ported heads are better than ported Boss heads. I sat and spoke with a few Livernois guys for a while when I was at SEMA a few months ago and they said the stock heads have more meat to take out than the Boss heads. Also the Boss head is a completely different casting. They are NOT ported stock heads.

I was under the impression that the only difference in rotating assembly between 2013 stock Coyote and Boss motor is the crank is a little stronger in the Boss. Can anyone confirm?

With this said if I was doing an N/A coyote I would do stage 3 ported stock coyote heads with cams to match.
 
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