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6 Cylinduh, Really Bruh?
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The panhard bar isnt really a popular mod. I feel the rear lower and upper control arms do a good job. I don't do insane curve cutting turns so I really didn't need the panhard bar. If you so opt to get it - it's $390 from LMR - 6% = $367. This still rolls you in at $346 under budget. If you so choose to go with snubbers at $14 from LMR, you're still $332 under budget. The snubbers come highly recommended at $14 from a lot of people but I personally haven't done them so I can't comment.
I found that replacing the almost 200,000 mile stock struts and shocks with Koni STR.T shocks and struts from MM made a big difference. MM recommends them for stock spring and some after market springs: Eibach Prokit, H&R Sport, and H&R Supersport. I did that at the same time I replaced (again) the rear upper control arms. I got rid of the UPR ProSeries with heim joints and spherical bushings and went to an FRPP UCA with rubber bushings from MM. I thought there was just too much NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) from the ProSeries UCAs for a daily driver.

There used to be long discussions on supension. Jazzer was a big fan of Griggs and talked constantly about the poor man three-link where you add a panhard bar and pull one of the UCAs. The reason you pulled an upper control arm was to prevent binding and snap oversteer. Maximum Motorsport said that you did not have to do that. But you do have to run rubber bushing in the UCAs to prevent binding. They recommend stock or FRPP control arms.

A popular mod that Jazzer did not care for was to get Bullitt/Mach 1 lowering springs and sway bars (no longer available from FRPP) and add MM lower control arms and panhard bar. A place in Ohio told me they did a dozen such mods per year. I was thinking about it but delayed too long. You could do the same thing with other after market springs. I like the Eibach Pro-kit because it is a progressive spring which offers performance with less of a jarring street ride. If I remember correctly stock springs are 450 lbs front and 210 lbs rear. Most after market springs are 600-650 lbs front and 250 lbs rear providing for a stiffer but more jarring ride. Progressive springs take a little of the jarring out. They are softer when they first start to compress and get stiffer the more they compress.

P.S. One thing you do not want to do is to run rear upper control arms with poly bushings. Spherical bushings turn. Rubber bushings flex. Poly bushings are just rigid. I have seen pictures (no longer available thanks to photobucket) of bent and damaged torque boxes from poly bushings.
Eagle what kind of nvh were you noticing from your old upper control arms?
 

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Premium Member
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47 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Odessa, that looks like a solid build, thanks for taking the time to put that together!

Eagle, I like the sound of a progressive spring and the Eibach pro-kit sounds has great reviews, but they have a slightly different spring for the 99-04 vert on AM, and it's reviews are mixed due to a few people not seeing any lowering in their car. Any idea why that might be the case? https://www.americanmuscle.com/eibach-pro-kit-spring-set-94-04-convertible.html
 

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Administrator
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33,193 Posts
Odessa, that looks like a solid build, thanks for taking the time to put that together!

Eagle, I like the sound of a progressive spring and the Eibach pro-kit sounds has great reviews, but they have a slightly different spring for the 99-04 vert on AM, and it's reviews are mixed due to a few people not seeing any lowering in their car. Any idea why that might be the case? https://www.americanmuscle.com/eibach-pro-kit-spring-set-94-04-convertible.html
it takes a while for new springs to settle to the advertised drop

best way to speed up the process is to take that bitch offroading
 

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US Air Force (retired)
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13,527 Posts
Eagle what kind of nvh were you noticing from your old upper control arms?
Rear end whine mostly. I'm running 3.73 gears with an Explorer differential and Strange 31 spline axles. I never had any gear whine until I put in the upper control arms with heim joints and spherical bushings. Everything is metal to metal and I could hear every noise the rear end made. When I took them out and put rubber bushings back in the noise went away. I'm sure that the whine wouldn't have bothered some people but I was spending a lot of time in my car and it bothered me.

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------

Eagle, I like the sound of a progressive spring and the Eibach pro-kit sounds has great reviews, but they have a slightly different spring for the 99-04 vert on AM, and it's reviews are mixed due to a few people not seeing any lowering in their car. Any idea why that might be the case? https://www.americanmuscle.com/eibach-pro-kit-spring-set-94-04-convertible.html
Here is the same part from Maximum Motorsport.
https://www.americanmuscle.com/eibach-pro-kit-spring-set-94-04-convertible.html

The drop that is quoted in the advertisement is for the 1994-1998. The drop for a 1999-2004 is 1.0-1.1". Maximum Motorsport in general says the drop is less for the 99-04 under fitment. That might be why people are saying they don't get the expected drop.

Here is the spring I was looking at for my car. It clearly says the drop is 1.1".
Eibach Pro-Kit, 1979-04 Mustang, V8, HT, non IRS
Pro Kit Line Performance Lowering Springs | Eibach Springs

The H&R Super Sport Spring are progressive and drops the front 2.0" and the back 1.75". The H&R Race Springs have a 1" drop. I don't believe they are progressive.
Products | H&R Special Springs, LP.

I don't want a 2" drop on my car. The county roads are not the best and my car already sometimes drags the ground. But I wanted better handling and I wanted to get rid of the 4x4 look so my original plan was to lower the car a little 3/4-1.1" and then put a taller tire on it to raise it back up off the ground. A 1" drop with a 1" taller sidewall will result in filling the gap 2". I just never got around to it and after putting on the new shocks and struts I'm not sure taller tires are needed. For me, I think a 1" drop would be just fine. Others might want more drop.
 

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Premium Member
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47 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
P.S. One thing you do not want to do is to run rear upper control arms with poly bushings. Spherical bushings turn. Rubber bushings flex. Poly bushings are just rigid. I have seen pictures (no longer available thanks to photobucket) of bent and damaged torque boxes from poly bushings.
I saw Jazzer mention this in the "unofficial suspension thread." As I understand it, those BBK UCA's are poly bushings, right? So maybe i'll just order the LCA/UCA's from MM and get everything else on AM. I just don't want to be sending anything back.
 

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US Air Force (retired)
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13,527 Posts
Why are you getting UCAs? I bought mine because you could adjust in the pinion angle for better traction and in all the years I had them I never did it. Likewise, one of the reasons I didn't get adjustable shocks is because I'd never adjust them. If you are getting wheel hop, lower control arms will fix it.

Edit: I just looked them up on AM. The cheap ones are poly. The more expensive ones are spherical. I also put spherical bushings in the differential. If you want to add a panhard bar later you should leave the UCAs stock. Here are the ones I put back in my car. I don't really know how they differ from stock. You'd have to call MM to find out but these are the ones they recommend for their panhard bar.
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Rear-Upper-Control-Arms-1979-2004-Mustang-P544.aspx
 

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Premium Member
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47 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
After reading the advice here, I've decided to just start with the basics. I can always upgrade things down the road.

AM shopping cart:
  • MM Full Length Subframe Connectors
  • Eibach Pro-Kit Springs
  • SR Performance Polyurethan Spring Isolators (front and rear)
  • KONI STR.T Shocks and Struts
  • SR Performance Strut Tower Brace
  • SR Performance Shock Tower Brace
  • SR Performance CC Plates
Now, you mentioned that AM offers a 6% off code, but I can't find one anywhere. I saw in another old thread that we need to PM the vendor for this. Is that correct?
 

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US Air Force (retired)
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13,527 Posts

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Nile P. Pezdel of Pez Dispenser Inc. CCA
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5,502 Posts
Do the braces really help much? I never got them because I couldn't tell if the rear ones worked with 'verts and the front ones wouldn't fit over the P51 intake and under the stock hood. I don't notice a lot of rear body flex, to be honest.
 

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6 Cylinduh, Really Bruh?
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5,215 Posts
Eagle what kind of nvh were you noticing from your old upper control arms?
Rear end whine mostly. I'm running 3.73 gears with an Explorer differential and Strange 31 spline axles. I never had any gear whine until I put in the upper control arms with heim joints and spherical bushings. Everything is metal to metal and I could hear every noise the rear end made. When I took them out and put rubber bushings back in the noise went away. I'm sure that the whine wouldn't have bothered some people but I was spending a lot of time in my car and it bothered me.

---------- Post added at 08:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------

Eagle, I like the sound of a progressive spring and the Eibach pro-kit sounds has great reviews, but they have a slightly different spring for the 99-04 vert on AM, and it's reviews are mixed due to a few people not seeing any lowering in their car. Any idea why that might be the case? https://www.americanmuscle.com/eibach-pro-kit-spring-set-94-04-convertible.html
Here is the same part from Maximum Motorsport.
https://www.americanmuscle.com/eibach-pro-kit-spring-set-94-04-convertible.html

The drop that is quoted in the advertisement is for the 1994-1998. The drop for a 1999-2004 is 1.0-1.1". Maximum Motorsport in general says the drop is less for the 99-04 under fitment. That might be why people are saying they don't get the expected drop.

Here is the spring I was looking at for my car. It clearly says the drop is 1.1".
Eibach Pro-Kit, 1979-04 Mustang, V8, HT, non IRS
Pro Kit Line Performance Lowering Springs | Eibach Springs

The H&R Super Sport Spring are progressive and drops the front 2.0" and the back 1.75". The H&R Race Springs have a 1" drop. I don't believe they are progressive.
Products | H&R Special Springs, LP.

I don't want a 2" drop on my car. The county roads are not the best and my car already sometimes drags the ground. But I wanted better handling and I wanted to get rid of the 4x4 look so my original plan was to lower the car a little 3/4-1.1" and then put a taller tire on it to raise it back up off the ground. A 1" drop with a 1" taller sidewall will result in filling the gap 2". I just never got around to it and after putting on the new shocks and struts I'm not sure taller tires are needed. For me, I think a 1" drop would be just fine. Others might want more drop.
Eagle this is interesting. I'm getting rear end whine but it happened after I put the aluminum drive shaft in. Very faint but it's there. When the steel was in I didn't have an issue and quiet as a mouse. Do you think poly would make me hear rear end whine as well?

What LCAs do you run?
 

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6 Cylinduh, Really Bruh?
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5,215 Posts
Ok reading. Poly is good for lowers. Rubber is best for uppers. Looks like in time I'll replace the uppers with the link eagle sent. Also replace the bushings with rubber that sit in the rear axle.

MM really knows their ****. Good reads on their site.
 

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Retired MM Ninjas
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12,555 Posts
You would be better off swapping for a coyote..
 

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US Air Force (retired)
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13,527 Posts
Eagle this is interesting. I'm getting rear end whine but it happened after I put the aluminum drive shaft in. Very faint but it's there. When the steel was in I didn't have an issue and quiet as a mouse. Do you think poly would make me hear rear end whine as well?

What LCAs do you run?
You shouldn't hear gear whine through poly. I'm still running UPR PrSeries LCAs with heim joints and spherical bushings. Noise doesn't seem to come through the LCAs as much as the UCAs. Probably because the UCAs are attached directly to the differential.

I don't know why an aluminum drive shaft would have more noise than steel. Our cars are getting older and gear wear will always give you a little whine. Are you sure its rear end whine? My car has a little transmission whine. I have no intention of fixing it unless the transmission goes out.

When I first had my rear gears installed I bought a used explorer differential and used 3.73 gears from the shop that does my tuning. They installed everything and guaranteed their work. I didn't get 3 lights away from the shop when I turned around and went back because of loud gear whine. I think it was loudest when I let off the gas. They said that it was because of the used gear's old wear pattern. I had AM mail them new gears and they installed them for free.

Don't forget: We build our cars for a specific purpose. My purpose is to have a fun daily driver. I'm sure that if you were into autocross or drag racing you would want something different.
 

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Premium Member
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47 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
You would be better off swapping for a coyote..
I considered this as well, but it looks like that has a $10k price tag on it and is much more involved. I just bought a used s/c kit with a low-mileage v3, 60lb fuel injetors, lightning MAF and power pipe for $2,835 shipped. Only thing left is a fuel pump, new plugs and a good tune.

AM advertises their code openly on FB. 14fbookcode is the code for 6 percent
Can't believe I didn't check their FB page. Thanks again, you just saved me $100!

---------- Post added at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:29 PM ----------

You shouldn't hear gear whine through poly. I'm still running UPR PrSeries LCAs with heim joints and spherical bushings. Noise doesn't seem to come through the LCAs as much as the UCAs. Probably because the UCAs are attached directly to the differential.
MM sells single adjustable and double adjustable. You just have the singles, right? Listed here 79-04 Mustang Pro-Series ™ Lower Control Arms Sway Bar Mount
 

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US Air Force (retired)
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13,527 Posts
MM sells single adjustable and double adjustable. You just have the singles, right? Listed here 79-04 Mustang Pro-Series ™ Lower Control Arms Sway Bar Mount
Yes, those are my UPR lower control arms. You can get them with and without sway bar mounts. If you look at the picture on the bottom left the double adjustable upper control arms are what I had taken off. The picture on the bottom right were the spherical bushings I also had taken off.
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter #38
Got it. I know I have saved a whole lot of money and butt-ache by running my thoughts passed you guys. Rep'd everyone that provided good info and I'm off to purchase a lifetime premium membership to the forum.

Stay tuned for the build thread. Suspension parts come in on Friday, S/C kit comes in on Tuesday next week.
 

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6 Cylinduh, Really Bruh?
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5,215 Posts
Glad I could help apex. I'm by no means an expert but just a hobbiest learning as I go as well. I can only give advice based on personal experience. I'm glad other guys can more experience then I that can give alternate views.

Also I'm glad you saved 100 bucks! Hey every little bit of savings counts. Ess if it's as simple as typing in a code. Every time I shop online I always hunt for discount codes. Another word of advice.... get on AMs chat RIGHT after you place an order. If the order is over 100 bucks or so typically they will throw in a free t-shirt of you ask for one (even after I use a discount code). I got 3 free shirts from them this way on 3 separate orders.

Call me cheap but it never hurts to ask for stuff when you're dropping coin. Worst they can say is no.

Where did you get the SC kit from?
 

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6 Cylinduh, Really Bruh?
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5,215 Posts
Eagle this is interesting. I'm getting rear end whine but it happened after I put the aluminum drive shaft in. Very faint but it's there. When the steel was in I didn't have an issue and quiet as a mouse. Do you think poly would make me hear rear end whine as well?

What LCAs do you run?
You shouldn't hear gear whine through poly. I'm still running UPR PrSeries LCAs with heim joints and spherical bushings. Noise doesn't seem to come through the LCAs as much as the UCAs. Probably because the UCAs are attached directly to the differential.

I don't know why an aluminum drive shaft would have more noise than steel. Our cars are getting older and gear wear will always give you a little whine. Are you sure its rear end whine? My car has a little transmission whine. I have no intention of fixing it unless the transmission goes out.

When I first had my rear gears installed I bought a used explorer differential and used 3.73 gears from the shop that does my tuning. They installed everything and guaranteed their work. I didn't get 3 lights away from the shop when I turned around and went back because of loud gear whine. I think it was loudest when I let off the gas. They said that it was because of the used gear's old wear pattern. I had AM mail them new gears and they installed them for free.

Don't forget: We build our cars for a specific purpose. My purpose is to have a fun daily driver. I'm sure that if you were into autocross or drag racing you would want something different.
I'm almost certain it's the frpp aluminum driveshaft. I had my rear end rebuilt with 4.10 gears added (rebuilt as in new trac lok, new axle bearings and seals with FRPP gear and ring. Basically redid everything from a kit from AM. Also added a FRPP finned cover from a GT500 (new)off ebay) a month prior to the driveshaft install. Silent as a church mouse. Add the driveshaft and noise is there. Note: drive shaft had to be rotated 180 degrees due to a high speed shake.

Mechanic said it's because the aluminum driveshaft is more hollow then steel and aluminum acts as a pickle fork amplifying noise versus steel. Google has confirmed this. Other guys complained of this going aluminum as well. In all honesty for the cost to gains ratio I would have just kept the steel on but my old steel one is long gone by now so it's whatever. My exhaust hides the noise for the most part (BBK LTs, BBK OR H, and Stingers) but it's still there.

Btw the rear has RP syn gear oil with FRPP friction modifier. 75w140 I believe. There is a metal tag on one of the bolt indicating the weight and use syn only.
 
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