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I Need More Power!!!
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Okay, so I ditched the Novi route. I decided I want to do a 5.4 2V swap instead. I priced a 5.4 from a F150 with 96k miles at the local Pick-n-Pull, going to run about $550 for everything needed from the donor truck. A local chop with do a total rebuild for $600. So in total that's a little over 1k for the shortblock. I know I will need a HPS Intake and PI heads. I am looking at picking up a set of Stage I PI heads from MMR to compliment the intake and shortblock. The questions I have are: Could I run a set of BBK shortys without clearance issues? I picked up a set on CL in mint condition for $70 and I really would like to use them if I can. Also, if I used the adapter plates, could I run a 2.1 KB on top of the 5.4? What about a P1SC? Would I have to fab one from a 4.6 kit or could I just used the whole kit with no fab? How much power can a 2V 5.4 handle? Reps given for responses.
 

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I Need More Power!!!
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Discussion Starter #2
No advice?

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Ill bite. The 5.4 stock internals are not forged which will make them iffy under alot of boost. I have heard 450whp max before things start to scatter. If you were planning on boost I would upgrade first. (forged crank, rods, pistons) They say that shorty headers will fit, long tubes for sure will not.

As far as the KB, you might be able to bolt the 4.6 2V kit on the car with the adapter plates, but I wouldn't. The spacers give issues with the injector spray location, it makes a funky angle.

The 5.4 will be a torque monster, but I would not run a centrifugal supercharger on it. I hate the way they build boost (wait for it.... wait for it...) BOOST! thats the opposite of what I like. Not many of us operate our engines at peak RPM 100% of the time, daily driven cars most often see RPM between idle and 4,000 ish, and a centri wont be much help down there. I would much rather have the instant boost of the KB to match the torque curve of the engine. (thats my style, but not everyones), but on the 2V 5.4 there is no (that I know of) intake that will go on with no adapters.

Dont forget about the fuel system, pump, injectors, etc...

I think your best bet would be to use the 2v 4.6 and stick the KB on it. Forge and maybe stroke the internals (go to 5.0). KB has a 2v automatic car which makes over 600 at the wheels
 

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Okay, so I ditched the Novi route. I decided I want to do a 5.4 2V swap instead. I priced a 5.4 from a F150 with 96k miles at the local Pick-n-Pull, going to run about $550 for everything needed from the donor truck. A local chop with do a total rebuild for $600. So in total that's a little over 1k for the shortblock. I know I will need a HPS Intake and PI heads. I am looking at picking up a set of Stage I PI heads from MMR to compliment the intake and shortblock. The questions I have are: Could I run a set of BBK shortys without clearance issues? I picked up a set on CL in mint condition for $70 and I really would like to use them if I can. Also, if I used the adapter plates, could I run a 2.1 KB on top of the 5.4? What about a P1SC? Would I have to fab one from a 4.6 kit or could I just used the whole kit with no fab? How much power can a 2V 5.4 handle? Reps given for responses.
What are your goals for the vehicle and what is your total budget? If you are looking primarily for track performance, you won't see a lot of improvement with the 5.4; especially considering that you are looking to go FI. The limiting factor with these motors is the heads - which are shared with the 4.6.

If you are looking for a broad torque band in a streetable N/A package (which is why I am building a 5.4), then the longer stroke begins to make sense. Not that the 5.4 can't be a track performer - it just takes more work to put together a good combination.

For the headers: FRPP and JBA shorties are known to work. The BBKs may work, if they are the unequal length variety. The equal length versions will likely have clearance issues - you won't know until you try.

For the shortblock: The 5.4 rods are no stronger than their 4.6 counterparts. You will want to invest in at least an inexpensive set of H-beams, if you plan on spending any time over 5500 RPM. Figure another $300-400 for rods and a little more for balancing. You can check if the crank is cast or forged by visual inspection. Knife-thin casting lines indicate a cast unit; thick, flattened seams indicate a forged piece. Cast should be okay if you stay under 6000 RPM and don't run big boost. If it were me, I would invest in a set of pistons while the motor is apart - you can pick a compression ratio to match your application and pick up a little strength.

Intake: The HPS is a good choice (well, the only choice) for a streetable N/A application, unless you want to spend a couple of grand for a custom sheetmetal unit, then more for fabrication work and a big cowl hood. Adapter plates will kill your mileage in a street-driven car, due to offset injector placement, relative to the intake valve. For F/I applications, Tork-Tech makes a three-piece blower manifold that can be widened with vertical plates that don't affect injector placement. A centri blower kit should work with the HPS intake, but some minor fabrication (e.g. relocating bolt holes, etc) will likely be needed. IMHO, if you are going FI anyway, you will be better off with a 4.6, as aftermarket support is much better for the shorter block.

Heads: If you are going N/A, you will want stage 2 or aftermarket heads - stock and mildly ported heads will run short of breath very quickly above 4700 or so RPM. You can run longer duration cams in the 5.4 than in the 4.6, unless you get zero-decked pistons. The longer stroke and increased volume will tame the cams a bit, so in general, driveability with a given cam in the 5.4 will be similar to driveability with the next size smaller cam in the 4.6.

Tuning: If you are F/I, you will want to get a dyno tune right away to avoid trashing your investment. For an N/A build, you can probably get away with a mail-order tune for awhile. A mild N/A build will run on the factory 4.6 tune, though probably a little rich judging from the feedback I have seen (and judging by my current mild stroker setup). You will want to bump your injector sizes up for all but the mildest N/A builds (tune required).

Most of this info was gleaned from this and other forums. I hope to have first-hand info by spring or summer (got heads, block, cams and crank; waiting for rods, pistons, intake and headers). I have a 4.6 stroker now, and I can tell you that the longer stroke does make a big seat-of-the-pants difference on the street, as there is much more torque available off-idle.
 

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Okay, so I ditched the Novi route. .
What made you ditch the novi route for your 4.6 and consider a kb or even a prcharger on a 5.4 2v instead?
 

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If you are looking for a broad torque band in a streetable N/A package (which is why I am building a 5.4), then the longer stroke begins to make sense. Not that the 5.4 can't be a track performer - it just takes more work to put together a good combination.
my thoughts exactly
 

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I Need More Power!!!
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Discussion Starter #7
Okay, so maybe I should just get the 5.4v, intake and 75mm TB, slap on the shorty headers and PI heads, (and I already have a 225lph SVT Focus pump and 40amp BAP) put that in. Should I run 24lb injectors or the 4.6L 19's? Is my 110 amp alt enough? I would be happy with the 280/355rwhp that a 5.4 swap with the HPS intake and PI heads dynos at. Then I could pull my 4.6, send it off to MMR to forge and stroke and save up for the KB, while still having something decent to run on the street and faster than a stock stang.

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If staying N/A, def go with 24's, the 19's will lean out at high RPM. The 5.4 2V with PI heads and HPS intake may be close to 300 also. Bolt on 4.6's can get close to 280
 

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If staying N/A, def go with 24's, the 19's will lean out at high RPM. The 5.4 2V with PI heads and HPS intake may be close to 300 also. Bolt on 4.6's can get close to 280
What gravedigger said. The duty cycle on 19s would be a little high for my comfort.

Also, don't forget you'll need to add an inch or so to your H / X pipe a little below the flanges, or you'll pull the exhaust up against the floorboards. The HPS intake is $$ for an interim solution, though you probably get most of it back on ebay when you get your 4.6 back in.
 

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I Need More Power!!!
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Discussion Starter #11
What made you ditch the novi route for your 4.6 and consider a kb or even a prcharger on a 5.4 2v instead?
I figured out I love head jerking torque. And after test driving a 5.4 swapped 2V, It seems like the more efficient and reliable way to make it.
 

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I Need More Power!!!
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Discussion Starter #12
how about a navi 5.4 4v? keep it n/a for a 00 cobra R esque feel
I would go 4V, but a lot more goes into that swap. Plus, have you ever priced a used Navi motor?
 

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I Need More Power!!!
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Discussion Starter #13
If staying N/A, def go with 24's, the 19's will lean out at high RPM. The 5.4 2V with PI heads and HPS intake may be close to 300 also. Bolt on 4.6's can get close to 280
Also, don't forget you'll need to add an inch or so to your H / X pipe a little below the flanges, or you'll pull the exhaust up against the floorboards.
Thanks, this is why I love MM, the tech help. I will most likely pull the exhaust and run open headers till the first start, then get her to the local exhaust shop.
 

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Head Unicorn
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Okay, so maybe I should just get the 5.4v, intake and 75mm TB, slap on the shorty headers and PI heads, (and I already have a 225lph SVT Focus pump and 40amp BAP) put that in. Should I run 24lb injectors or the 4.6L 19's? Is my 110 amp alt enough? I would be happy with the 280/355rwhp that a 5.4 swap with the HPS intake and PI heads dynos at. Then I could pull my 4.6, send it off to MMR to forge and stroke and save up for the KB, while still having something decent to run on the street and faster than a stock stang.

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So, you're going to spend a few thousand dollars to make the swap to a tall deck 5.4 and create a whole new animal. Then you're going to prepare to go back to a 4.6 and have to reconfigure to get back to the short deck motor. You're running in circles. If you want to go 5.4 (which I'm not a fan of) you need to make your plans based on that and stick with it, not reverse direction to go back to a 4.6.

I'd really like to comment on the what you said about the shop that's going to rebuild the 5.4 for $600. There is no way in hell I'd buy any motor from any individual or shop that's "completely rebuilt" for $600. The gaskets and timing set alone exceed $600. I'm not trying to say your not doing the right thing or that this is a mistake... but stay the hell away from any shop that claims a complete rebuild for $600. Re-using the rods, pistons, crank and block with new rings, bearing, seals, gaskets, new timing set and only basic machine work will be in the ballpark of $1500-$2000. None of that includes the necessary changes to get the 5.4 to fit under the hood.

The horspower you say you want is 280...... no need whatsoever for a 5.4 or any new motor. Toss some ported heads and cams on the motor you have and get it tuned and you'll be in the 300 hp range at the tires. You're looking in a very expensive direction for very low goals.
 

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I Need More Power!!!
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Discussion Starter #15
So, you're going to spend a few thousand dollars to make the swap to a tall deck 5.4 and create a whole new animal. Then you're going to prepare to go back to a 4.6 and have to reconfigure to get back to the short deck motor. You're running in circles. If you want to go 5.4 (which I'm not a fan of) you need to make your plans based on that and stick with it, not reverse direction to go back to a 4.6.

I'd really like to comment on the what you said about the shop that's going to rebuild the 5.4 for $600. There is no way in hell I'd buy any motor from any individual or shop that's "completely rebuilt" for $600. The gaskets and timing set alone exceed $600. I'm not trying to say your not doing the right thing or that this is a mistake... but stay the hell away from any shop that claims a complete rebuild for $600. Re-using the rods, pistons, crank and block with new rings, bearing, seals, gaskets, new timing set and only basic machine work will be in the ballpark of $1500-$2000. None of that includes the necessary changes to get the 5.4 to fit under the hood.

The horspower you say you want is 280...... no need whatsoever for a 5.4 or any new motor. Toss some ported heads and cams on the motor you have and get it tuned and you'll be in the 300 hp range at the tires. You're looking in a very expensive direction for very low goals.
Im sorry, I forgot to mention that the shop is charging that amount to labor. Its not the HP that I am thinking about. 300 is enough for my intended street use, I am looking at torque numbers, the reason I am not building my 4.6 is because of the issues I had when I replaced the first engine in this thing. I took a 03 4.6 with 65k miles and put it in my GT and since have been nickle and dimed by it to the tune of the 1.5k that I had saved for a used Centri and still having issues. I learned a lot along the way of working on it, but now im ready to start with a new powerplant. This is my car that I bought to build. Time to make it different and take the less traveled path. I think im going to purchase the 5.4, buy all necessary equipment to run it, then when I am financially ready, tear the block open and forge it, then boost it. Of course KB
 

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Head Unicorn
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5.4 is not for me... as I said I'm not telling you not to. You mentioned doing the 5.4 swap then going back with a forged 4.6... that simply doesn't make financial sense. If the 5.4 is the way you wanna go and you feel it's right for you I certainly won't knock it, it's just not for me.
 

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I Need More Power!!!
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Discussion Starter #17
5.4 is not for me... as I said I'm not telling you not to. You mentioned doing the 5.4 swap then going back with a forged 4.6... that simply doesn't make financial sense. If the 5.4 is the way you wanna go and you feel it's right for you I certainly won't knock it, it's just not for me.
Yeah, I was just throwing a random idea out of my head. The forged 5.4 would be a hell of a lot more fun. Plus I wouldn't have to rebuild just to end up cracking into it again. I'm going source a lower mileage one then do the swap to ensure everything running in cohesion before I go all out.

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Pull the 4.6 rebuild that and buy a beater to drive in that time. Your not making much sense doing this 5.4 swap only to put your 4.6 back in later. Maybe back in the day I would do the same, but now I would just skip the 5.4 swap. The money on the 5.4 intake alone could go towards a beater and help save faster for that KB.
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What is the diffrences between this 5.4 he is talking about, vs the lightning 5.4, lol heads etc.

Could he get a supercharger off of it, or one made for it and hold it up?
 

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the 5.4 SOHC is the same 5.4 used in the lightning, minus the eaton of course. The lightning engines were nothing special, not forged, just 5.4 2V's with a M112 supercharger. They can hold up under a little boost but not a ton. "Hold up" is kinda a relative term I guess. If I remember right they were rated at 390hp.

You can stick a lightning motor in a mustang, it just will have a hideous hole in the hood or a giant scoop. Has to do with the way the intake routes over the top of the blower rather than around the side like on a mustang.
 
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