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I see the problem even when I was a teen I would hear about it about those who employ illegal aliens to work in their houses, on their houses instead of contractors, in fields etc... to take advantage of them and to also save their money because they are paying them a lot less than they would pay a citizen.

So there are quite a few problems around the entire issue that the lawmakers should address but to say “ oh crap all of sudden now this is a national emergency so we must back this guy in this” nah wouldn’t personally go there. It’s a complex ongoing issue that some mid evil wall isn’t gonna wipe out so all of the lawmakers should do their job and address it no matter what a candidate and now president boasted about or promised those who suck in his every word and promise.

It seems as if politically he has backed himself into a weird corner with broad promises and in a way put some of those that support him or the party in a weird corner trying to in various ways back some of his mess. Terrible situation imo socially and politically if one pays attention to it daily it’s borderline draining.

I’m not a Republican by any means but damn man hopefully with some of this crap this guy constantly has going on he doesn’t in the end historically leave a nasty stain on the party or become the face of it for years to come The Party of Trump. Imo it does none of us any justice and all things considered with him will cause a lasting divide. I think the only way around that is if for some of his mess to be called out from within sometime not this weird silence, blind eye, excuses or bending to back him in some cases. Idk man starting to ramble and go all over the place more Old Camp for me and time to get off of here.
See, I could care less about the wall itself. I see it as a boondoggle, much like many other political promises. What I do like about Trump is that he uses the powers he is granted to get the things he said he will do done, whether I happen to agree with them or not. He is not making law by executive order (this again was NOT an EO, and is apparently about to be overturned), he doesn't want to do so. He is letting the Congress and Senate do their jobs. The shutdown that started because of the budget could have been easily solved had the House done it's job, but the TDS has everyone not doing it just because "Trump wants it done". He said repeatedly that if the House would do it's job, there wouldn't be a shutdown. I have issues with choosing the wall as the reason for the shutdown as just a few years ago they approved 25B for the very same wall. At this point, what's another 5?

It is, as always, smoke and mirrors.

I saw on MSN this morning them saying that "Fox news dropped the Stormy Daniels story even though they had it first" trying to make that as though they're in bed with Trump.

No, it was a non story. Him having sex with her in 06 is not a legal issue, it is not a reason to not be President (I refer you to Clinton and Kennedy, both of whom had sex with EVERYONE), and it was a non story. No matter how much they (lol) trump it up. it had NO BEARING on the presidential race, or his ability to be President.

Same with the witchhunt for the Russian Collusion. It's not a thing. Their star witness is set to go to jail for LYING TO CONGRESS. And that's their main witness. They're relying on the general public not knowing that, and using it to muddy the water. In the end, no proof will be found.

ALL of this is wasting time in an attempt to get traction for a 2020 candidate. We have Socialists and Communists in the running, and that just doesn't fly with anyone with an actual brain. We have states attempting to go to the popular vote of the state telling them how to vote, instead of using the districts which are balanced out, and I am going to laugh when it doesn't go the way they want (and that will happen eventually).

It's all bullshit at the end of the day. The wall, gun control, "immigration", etc.
 

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I thought the issue with him sleeping with Stormy was not that simple fact of te affair or whatever but the manner in how they tried to pay her and keep it all quiet and out of te eyes of the voting public during the crucial time that people were looking at various candidates. Idk from what I’ve been hearing that was sort of my take on it was the timing of the payouts and all that crap not him actually sleeping around.

As far as the Russia thing well it’s been playing out for quite some time and all things considered I wouldn’t say that absolutely no one has been put under the fire behind it all since it all started like we seen in some past investigations. Some usually call for the system to do its thing and so far it has been if there is absolutely nothing there with him or anyone around him then when it’s all said and done it will be proven in the conclusion.
 

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I thought the issue with him sleeping with Stormy was not that simple fact of te affair or whatever but the manner in how they tried to pay her and keep it all quiet and out of te eyes of the voting public during the crucial time that people were looking at various candidates. Idk from what I’ve been hearing that was sort of my take on it was the timing of the payouts and all that crap not him actually sleeping around.

As far as the Russia thing well it’s been playing out for quite some time and all things considered I wouldn’t say that absolutely no one has been put under the fire behind it all since it all started like we seen in some past investigations. Some usually call for the system to do its thing and so far it has been if there is absolutely nothing there with him or anyone around him then when it’s all said and done it will be proven in the conclusion.
While I do agree that him paying her to keep quiet was the wrong choice (especially since she breached the contract and had to pay him, lol), I still don't really care who he has sex with. Lots of "powerful" people have lots of affairs, it's part of the power trip. I don't justify it, but I acknowledge it. Ultimately, that's something between him and his wife.
 

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I personally myself could careless who Joe or Blo sleeps with also. Looking at how things have played out in the past for people running for various offices including presidential candidates it seems as if the wiff or story of an affair has stopped the momentum of quite a few or any type of story that’s borederline sexually based dealing with the opposite gender and to be inclusive even the same gender.

So looking at the bigger picture of how I may feel or not feel about it’s no big mystery why someone running for office during crunch time would try to pay to shush a story like this and keep it away from the electorate with varying opinions on how one should behave if they chose or are choosing to get behind them. I get your point but let’s not ignore or dance around the obvious all things considered just because.
 

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While I do agree that him paying her to keep quiet was the wrong choice (especially since she breached the contract and had to pay him, lol), I still don't really care who he has sex with. Lots of "powerful" people have lots of affairs, it's part of the power trip. I don't justify it, but I acknowledge it. Ultimately, that's something between him and his wife.
So character no longer matters to you in your politicians? Powerful people are now allowed to have affairs and not be called out but us normal people are sinners and get lambasted anytime something like that gets exposed? More enabling of rich powerful people elevating them above the law...….

John
 

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So character no longer matters to you in your politicians? Powerful people are now allowed to have affairs and not be called out but us normal people are sinners and get lambasted anytime something like that gets exposed? More enabling of rich powerful people elevating them above the law...….

John
Oh get over yourself.

Character hasn't been a trait politicians possess for a long, long time now.
Secondly, them cheating hasn't been an issue in the past, why should it be now? Kennedy funneled a steady stream of women into the white house. Clinton only got caught on one intern, he had a steady stream of rape and sexual abuse allegations for his entire career.

But Trump pays a porn star for a night and that's big news? Please. And what law exactly is that against? Prostitution? Not so much. He paid her for a "date". Sleeping with him was on her, just like most escorts.

Having an affair isn't really illegal. And if you get caught, again, that's between you and your wife isn't it?
 

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I know in the military affairs when married were a crime. I guess it’s all fine and dandy for the troops to face punishment under UCMJ but the CIC to just sleezily sleep around. Let’s not make excuses for crap like this type of behavior and act like character has never been an issue when looking at some of these characters. The twisting and bending to excuse this guys behavior is sad to see sometimes.
 

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Oh get over yourself.

Character hasn't been a trait politicians possess for a long, long time now.
Secondly, them cheating hasn't been an issue in the past, why should it be now? Kennedy funneled a steady stream of women into the white house. Clinton only got caught on one intern, he had a steady stream of rape and sexual abuse allegations for his entire career.

But Trump pays a porn star for a night and that's big news? Please. And what law exactly is that against? Prostitution? Not so much. He paid her for a "date". Sleeping with him was on her, just like most escorts.

Having an affair isn't really illegal. And if you get caught, again, that's between you and your wife isn't it?
Obviously for you it doesn't and your support of Trump verifies it. AGAIN.....how do those wrongs make it alright for Trump to do it? Since Nixon got impeached for the cover up do we use that as precedence and say it was done before so now it's OK?

BTW the payment is a crime as it's a campaign contribution not reported but, like Nixon, it's the cover up and the lieing, which you also seem OK with that are in play now so rather than just confess to having done it he's made it worse by trying to cover it up.

BTW it was more than one porn star. In fact one of his affairs was only 5 months after his child had been born. Lets also not forget the fact that AMI caught and killed a bunch of stories that we don't know about so it's not like you would like to paint it as only having been an isolated incident. It's a pattern that he has followed his whole life. Again.....character...…

John
 

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Obviously for you it doesn't and your support of Trump verifies it. AGAIN.....how do those wrongs make it alright for Trump to do it? Since Nixon got impeached for the cover up do we use that as precedence and say it was done before so now it's OK?

BTW the payment is a crime as it's a campaign contribution not reported but, like Nixon, it's the cover up and the lieing, which you also seem OK with that are in play now so rather than just confess to having done it he's made it worse by trying to cover it up.

BTW it was more than one porn star. In fact one of his affairs was only 5 months after his child had been born. Lets also not forget the fact that AMI caught and killed a bunch of stories that we don't know about so it's not like you would like to paint it as only having been an isolated incident. It's a pattern that he has followed his whole life. Again.....character...…

John

Long story short, I simply don't care who anyone in the public eye sleeps with, or what arrangements they had regarding it. I don't say "it's ok because it happened before", but I do say that it wasn't worth the impeachment process on Clinton even though he lied under oath, and no one really gave a **** at all when Kennedy did it.

I don't do the virtue signaling **** when the party I don't support does something stupid. I weigh how much it matters to me by how it affects my daily life. Are my taxes going to go up because Trump paid a porn star for sex? No. Am I going to lose any of my rights over it? No. Then oh well, not something I need to be concerned with. I didn't care how many women Clinton slept with either, and while I cared that he was not held accountable for his assaults on women, by and large that is the norm and while unfortunate, there's not a damn thing I can do about that unless I happen to be on the jury of a case of it happening.

Everything, I repeat, EVERYTHING is smoke and mirrors. It's all 100% bullshit.

---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 PM ----------

I know in the military affairs when married were a crime. I guess it’s all fine and dandy for the troops to face punishment under UCMJ but the CIC to just sleezily sleep around. Let’s not make excuses for crap like this type of behavior and act like character has never been an issue when looking at some of these characters. The twisting and bending to excuse this guys behavior is sad to see sometimes.
I'm not "excusing" it, just saying that it flat out doesn't matter to me.

First off, I don't know the situation between Trump and his wife. Seeing as how she is a former model (like most of his past relationships), and many people find wealth and power to be attractive, I'm not sure that what I would call love is the driving force behind their relationship. Again, that's neither here nor there, but just my opinion on it. Secondly, who anyone has sex with is frankly non of my business, nor their marital situation. I can see how the military would make an affair a crime as it can affect morale because presumably it'll be with someone else on base, but yet again, at the time Trump was not CIC, and what happened before the military doesn't necessarily matter once you're in the military.

Secondly, although not common there are many people with "open" relationships. I am neither justifying nor condoning that, but it happens and if your wife doesn't have an issue with you having sex with porn stars, who am I to have an issue with it?

I'm not one to base my decision on elections based on who slept with whom. There are much bigger, deeper issues that take precedence to me, and at the end of the day we had only two real options in 2016, Clinton and Trump. I preferred Trump, and think that overall he's doing as good a job as he can with the opposition he faces. I'm really frustrated with politics in general, as the worst people keep getting brought forth.
 

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Again.....character...…

John
I seriously doubt anyone voted for Trump because of his moral character. As Woodman is saying policy matters. Almost everyone I know held their nose and voted for Trump simply because they hated Hillary Clinton and hated her policies.

If the Democrats run a socialist next time it will happen again. The socialist might carry the west coast and New England but the flyover states will vote against those policies.
 

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I seriously doubt anyone voted for Trump because of his moral character. As Woodman is saying policy matters. Almost everyone I know held their nose and voted for Trump simply because they hated Hillary Clinton and hated her policies.

If the Democrats run a socialist next time it will happen again. The socialist might carry the west coast and New England but the flyover states will vote against those policies.
And every time the candidate with the popular vote loses to the Electoral College, everyone loses their minds claiming we're not a democracy.

Correct, we are not. We are a constitutional republic. Democracies fail quickly due to people voting themselves more money and power. Our representatives are supposed to be churned through to prevent them gaining too much power. Sadly, people in general are stupid and allow that to happen.
 

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And every time the candidate with the popular vote loses to the Electoral College, everyone loses their minds claiming we're not a democracy.

.
Seems like out of numerous presidential elections where the electoral college was in play there has only been FIVE situations where the candidate won without winning the popular vote. From the numbers out of those five it looks like Trump lost that vote by the largest margin close to 3million votes. The situation before that was Gore and Bush well over a decade++ ago.


The rest look like they were in the 1800s the rest meaning the other THREE. This every time sounds like this is some very common occurrence in our lifetime where we have seen people constantly flip out when this always happens. I mean I know one wise person always comes in and uses the back in the day references bc he was there back then so maybe Eagle was there during the other three situations in the 1800s and can see that they are comparable to the other two that happened in the past two decades to see if people always lose their mind when it happens. Jk:serious:


https://www.thoughtco.com/presidents-elected-without-winning-popular-vote-105449
 

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Seems like out of numerous presidential elections where the electoral college was in play there has only been FIVE situations where the candidate won without winning the popular vote. From the numbers out of those five it looks like Trump lost that vote by the largest margin close to 3million votes. The situation before that was Gore and Bush well over a decade++ ago.


The rest look like they were in the 1800s the rest meaning the other THREE. This every time sounds like this is some very common occurrence in our lifetime where we have seen people constantly flip out when this always happens. I mean I know one wise person always comes in and uses the back in the day references bc he was there back then so maybe Eagle was there during the other three situations in the 1800s and can see that they are comparable to the other two that happened in the past two decades to see if people always lose their mind when it happens. Jk:serious:


https://www.thoughtco.com/presidents-elected-without-winning-popular-vote-105449
So, nitpicking aside, BOTH times it's happened (and both have been recent enough to be in our memory), the "everyone" (to which I am referring to the media and other talking heads/social media) all behaved as I described, didn't they?

Instead of nitpicking the wording of my statement, when the meaning is very clear, why not comment on the actual behavior of the recent elections?

Your statements, while accurate, do not disprove what I'm saying. Do I really need to boil things down to that level of scrutiny? Is that's what is required now? Wouldn't that just be tiring?
 

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To be honest as far as everyone’s behavior back in 2000 and the time around it in the media I paid no attention to it at all. Once I joined in the late 90s I never really watched the news including local news mainly reality shows and sports here and there. And I would never talk politics or take any type of stance or side in that throughout my entire service. Would tune it at obvious times of national unrest.

That’s why I didn’t focus in on it heavily until around 2010 as far as the news local and national and then started talking about it more often. My med retirement was in 2010 so I got off of that track of in a way being a political. So honestly I had no idea how people reacted in the media and socially before this last one in our lifetime Woodman.

On the most recent one were the guy our President looses by close 3 million votes but he wins bc the way the system is set up with a margin like that even though a system is in place common sense will tell me that quite a few people will have an opinion on it some unfavorable. My take is there is a system in place he clearly didn’t win the popular vote but he won period.
 

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To be honest as far as everyone’s behavior back in 2000 and the time around it in the media I paid no attention to it at all. Once I joined in the late 90s I never really watched the news including local news mainly reality shows and sports here and there. And I would never talk politics or take any type of stance or side in that throughout my entire service. Would tune it at obvious times of national unrest.

That’s why I didn’t focus in on it heavily until around 2010 as far as the news local and national and then started talking about it more often. My med retirement was in 2010 so I got off of that track of in a way being a political. So honestly I had no idea how people reacted in the media and socially before this last one in our lifetime Woodman.

On the most recent one were the guy our President looses by close 3 million votes but he wins bc the way the system is set up with a margin like that even though a system is in place common sense will tell me that quite a few people will have an opinion on it some unfavorable. My take is there is a system in place he clearly didn’t win the popular vote but he won period.
So you do understand that the popular vote would be widely skewed by the coasts, which are both heavily populated and tend to lean democrat, while the vast swath of America in between, which has less people than the coasts, would never get their say unless they also voted for whoever the coasts vote for.

Just because the "popular" vote doesn't win doesn't mean people aren't heard. We all knew Clinton would win the popular vote. I frankly was impressed Trump got the Electoral vote. The majority of the states wanted Trump, and that's a more "fair" system than the popular vote. Sometimes it works in your chosen teams favor, sometimes it doesn't. Not that big a deal.
 

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I mean I know one wise person always comes in and uses the back in the day references bc he was there back then so maybe Eagle was there during the other three situations in the 1800s and can see that they are comparable to the other two that happened in the past two decades to see if people always lose their mind when it happens.
Me and Daniel crossed over to Kentucky. Daniel was a lot of fun after a couple of drinks. Then I hauled whiskey down to St. Louis with Mike Fink. We took no crap from anyone and made such an impression that they still call us hoosiers.:wink2:

My wife's grandmother as a small child traveled across the Rockies in a covered wagon. Her father traded with a band of Indians to get her a pony. As a teenager she travel by train every week to work as a house maid and every week she brought the money back to her father. On one of those trips she met a young man in the train station. They wrote letters to each other and the next time they met they got married. They were married almost 70 years.

As a child she traveled by covered wagon and she lived to see a man walk on the moon. During her lifetime there were huge technological and cultural changes. For a youngster like me its almost mind boggling.:smile2:
 

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Long story short, I simply don't care who anyone in the public eye sleeps with, or what arrangements they had regarding it. I don't say "it's ok because it happened before", but I do say that it wasn't worth the impeachment process on Clinton even though he lied under oath, and no one really gave a **** at all when Kennedy did it.

I don't do the virtue signaling **** when the party I don't support does something stupid. I weigh how much it matters to me by how it affects my daily life. Are my taxes going to go up because Trump paid a porn star for sex? No. Am I going to lose any of my rights over it? No. Then oh well, not something I need to be concerned with. I didn't care how many women Clinton slept with either, and while I cared that he was not held accountable for his assaults on women, by and large that is the norm and while unfortunate, there's not a damn thing I can do about that unless I happen to be on the jury of a case of it happening.

Everything, I repeat, EVERYTHING is smoke and mirrors. It's all 100% bullshit.
Then if character doesn't matter to you or, as you say, EVERY politician lacks it, what is your argument with Clinton? What was it that she was going to do in her term that was going to effect you so negatively that you would vote against her? I have my own reasons for not voting for her but you posted that you don't care if someone lies or cheats or steals as long as it doesn't affect you personally but you couldn't be more wrong. It definitely affects you and every other american.

If your reason was because she lied about her email usage well....you don't care about government officials lieing remember?

If your reason was because she had a server installed in her home that was receiving classified material well......then where is the outrage for the presidents daughter doing the exact same thing?

If your reason was because she supposedly gave the Russians fissionable material well......that boat has sailed a long time ago. That conspiracy theory has been debunked many times over.

If your reason was because you feel she left Christopher Stevens and the Libyan consulate to die at the hands of terrorists well......there have been no fewer than 7 "investigations" into the matter and not one indictment was handed down. Even the sham "Select Committee" headed by your buddy Trey Gowdy couldn't come up with any credible evidence that would indict Ms. Clinton and he admitted as much. In fact the current minority whip in the House, Kevin McCarthy admitted on Hannity that the "investigation" was really just a ruse to bring HRC's poll numbers down.

Do I think Ms. Clinton is a slimy, two faced politician? Without a doubt but she pales in comparison to the current president in regards to his criminality and his disregard for the law. He lies at epic proportion and operates the WH like a corporation. We can see how well that's all going. As I have stated many times. Public and private administration are two different animals and Trump has proven that. The chaos in the WH is a testament to Trumps terrible managerial skills. He couldn't make a deal to save his life.

John
 

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Then if character doesn't matter to you or, as you say, EVERY politician lacks it, what is your argument with Clinton? What was it that she was going to do in her term that was going to effect you so negatively that you would vote against her? I have my own reasons for not voting for her but you posted that you don't care if someone lies or cheats or steals as long as it doesn't affect you personally but you couldn't be more wrong. It definitely affects you and every other american.
No, I did not say that I didn't care about lying. Show me where I said that please.
I said, specifically, I don't care who a politician sleeps with. I do expect them to lie if they get caught, doesn't mean I don't care, and while I'd rather they didn't, lots of people want to believe a politician is honest when frankly I know better. I know I cannot expect full honesty out of one, but the lies DO matter to me, I just weigh them individually.

Trump's sex with Stormy Daniels and wanting it kept quiet, I can understand that. Doesn't mean I agree with it or am justifying it, just that I understand that. Does his sleeping with her in any way affect the country? Does his denying it in any way affect the country? I don't believe so. Thus, to me, that lie has no weight to it.

My issues with Hilary Clinton weren't just the lying, but essentially everything about her as a politician/her career. She is, in my opinion, the slimiest, most disgusting type of individual I can think of. Her lies about the emails were something I felt were important because they were state records primarily, and her deletion of them demonstrated that she was keeping public documents away from the public on purpose, and those lies DO affect me because I know how easily they are proven (email backup/restore processes are incredibly easy) and it directly affected national security. To me, that carried a lot more weight, but was ultimately just one straw against her as a president.

Do I think Ms. Clinton is a slimy, two faced politician? Without a doubt but she pales in comparison to the current president in regards to his criminality and his disregard for the law. He lies at epic proportion and operates the WH like a corporation. We can see how well that's all going. As I have stated many times. Public and private administration are two different animals and Trump has proven that. The chaos in the WH is a testament to Trumps terrible managerial skills. He couldn't make a deal to save his life.

John
You are as entitled to your opinion on Trump as I am to mine on Clinton. I have no stake in making you feel my opinion is more valid, because I frankly don't care about your opinions. I personally feel running the government like a corporation is exactly what is needed. It will reduce the gross inefficiencies and bureaucracy, and hopefully put the country back on track to reducing wasteful spending, and putting the money where it's needed. I'd love to see that on state level too. As I drive down roads in my city that can't be bothered to even attempt to keep up with road repairs, but instead wants to build a $40,000,000 new library to "save" $3,000,000 in upgrades to the existing one to have less heat/AC loss, I just get frustrated. Every time my water main in my neighborhood freezes over because it is 60+ years old and barely maintained, I get frustrated. I'd LOVE to see someone who understands that you have to maintain the city to get more people, and more people means more tax revenue, and more tax revenue means that you can then have extra money without raising property taxes 40% in one year, along with multitudes of other taxes to build up your slush fund, and that extra revenue, extra jobs from new companies moving in, etc will get you your now needed $40,000,000 library.

But nah, let's just keep raising taxes, taking away rights, doing it "for the children", and bitching and moaning about who paid whom for a quickie in the back of a limo. Let's give Socialism that one last try and see how that works out (hint, it won't). Let's fight EVERY SINGLE THING the sitting president does just because they really, really wanted Clinton in. That sure seems reasonable.
 
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