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6 Cylinduh, Really Bruh?
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,

I've been messing with the idea of Coyote swapping my car for a while now. While I can afford to go out and buy a new 5.0 S550 I've been holding back on it for a few reasons. First... I am cheap. Car is paid off and insurance is $75 bucks a month. Second... I only drive the car 100 miles a year. Third and most important.... the sentimental value of the car is high for me. First dream car I could afford with a job I obtained myself then saved up for. This was almost 10 years ago when I was 21.

I'm looking to have this car til I die and it's my only hobby (well besides my family) that I dump money into.

I like the idea of a modern car with modern features but I also like the idea of having something unique. I've been planning a super charge build with built motor with my mechanic but as the numbers rack up I was debating just doing a swap. My engine is 18 years old now but has absolutely zero issues. Basically I'd buy the parts and he'd do the swap plus tuning ECT. I was looking at other people's threads, kits offered by places such as LMR, and such. I've been easing off the "cheap" mind set on this build as I want a car i can be proud of. I'm big into the car scene and want something that can run and keep or beat others.

I'm setting a $25k limit on this project (while I won't tell him that) between parts and labor. In that limit I'd want my factory seats reupholstered and the whole body redone with the dings taken out and paint reshot. I'd also want a procharger if it can work under the hood. If not a roots style blower would be done with new hood. Again with budget allowing.

Honestly this is a mixture of A) planning. B) dreaming C) what cost can I realistically be looking at so I don't get ripped off and D) is there a better option to go?

With work being so hectic I'm having a guy do the work. I'm supplying the parts and paying the bill. I'm shooting for a 500 HP car NA, 6 to 700 FI but again budget. I have an appointment with my mechanic Friday to discuss but want ideas on what to ask. Other things high on the list to ask is it needs to run premium (no e85), needs to be steetable, can I use my stock tranny, do I need a new gear set (running 4.10s), turn around time, warranty terms, looking for a nice cammed exhaust note, and FI options. Need to know what suspension upgrades are needed of any. I currently have flsfc, Steeda sport springs, upper and lower BBK control arms ECT. Do I need anything further?

Also what kind of turn around time could I expect?? Not looking to have my car in a shop for 2 to 3 months. I'd want it all done in a month tops.

Anyways from people who have done it, let me know.
 

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Depends on how easily you can find parts around you. I have a friend here in Jax who coyote swapped an sn95, bought a f150 motor for 1250 from a tow yard and bought mustang intake cams for it for 600 ish, but that's a really lucky deal. He spent around 6k total on the swap. Most people I see spend 10 - 15k easy.
 

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6 Cylinduh, Really Bruh?
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This I like. I saw this but there's also those unknown factors that can throw a wrench in things. I'm going to a few dealerships this weekend to test drive a few but honestly the thought of stroking that check plus higher insurance is swaying me against it. A lot of money for a hobby car. Atleast on my car it's built and not bought if i go that way and the meets I go to would be more interesting.

I dropped almost 6k in the car just in October so there's that too. I feel like I didn't get to enjoy my investment fully.

I just wanted insight from maybe someone who has done it. Was it worth it or do you just wish you bought a s197 or s550?
 

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I would budget ~10k for find a rear-ended F150 or Mustang. You can gut that for most of what you need, and then sell the rest and drop that cost back down some (say 5k for the drivetrain).

I am not sure on your trans, since you have a 5spd, but I know the 4R70W will bolt up to the coyote. With that in mind, I would imagine that the 5 speed you have would also work. You would need to confirm that.

If you do the swap from a parts car, you wont have any warranty, other than what the installer is willing to give you. If you want to spend a little more, you can buy the crate engine from ford racing, which will have a 3 yr/36000 powertrain warranty, assuming you dont open the engine up. This would be fine for keeping it NA, but would only give you about 440 ish rwhp (coyote number), possible a little less due to loss on your older trans. If you want to add cams, or boost this would void that warranty. Along with that, for a boosted application, it is recomended to get upgraded oil pump gears. Opening the engine to do so, would void the 3yr/36k warranty. For this reason, I recommend a reputable installer, and going the parts car route, then parting out the rest. You could even take the seats from the parts car if you got a mustang, and avoid the cost of reupholstering.

Assuming you get 5k back, and spend 10K on the parts car here is my estimated cost:

5K engine, running, and ready to go
$300 for oil pump gears
$1k for K-member/suspension changes to the front end
$500-1k for coyote swap headers
$2k for ford racing controls pack


That puts you at ~10k in parts for the engine swap. If you need a different flexplate/bellhousing or otherwise to use your trans that would increase the cost. I have no idea on that.

That is without labor. You will likely pay a lot in labor for this. You also will need a tune if you are doing cams/other work and not keeping it as a stock coyote.

For a procharger/roots kit, assume $3500-$6k depending on blower kit, that is cost of a system new. You could save going used, or getting a 'tuner' kit.

Cost of a hood + paint would be ~1k for just the hood. This assumes a good quality fiberglass hood needing minimal prep, a cheaper quality hood will likely have a much higher cost with regards to paint/prep.

For painting your car, will you do any prep? I have no idea the condition of your car. For my 03, I had the whole car repainted (only on the exterior, no engine bay, interior, or frame) at the dealer for $3k. There were no dents or other issues that needed fixed, just faded paint. The quality of the work was reasonable, but not the best. You could easily increase that cost depending on prep work, or other work you want done. You could also do paint somewhere like MAACO and probably be done for under $2k. This is hit or miss with regards to quality.

Upholstery, I have no clue. The TMI kits are usually between $500 and 1k, but you would have to do the work. At that point, I personally would go with a quality race seat that can recline.

You can likely do everything for 25k, but it will depend on parts price, and the labor rate of your chosen shop.
 

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OP, You are in a place I was with your car. I wasn't sure what to do, NA build, forged short block/TFS heads, keep it as is and try to enjoy it...at the end of the day it comes down to 2 important questions that only you can answer....

1) Is your car something that has sentimental value and one you want to keep?
2) What is your ultimate goal for the car and what can you afford to accomplish that goal?

A Coyote swap is not cheap...it's why most people stay with the current platform and throw in forged rods/pistons, boost and call it a day.

Personally...You need to just decide if you really want to keep the car and what you can/want to spend on it...

This is why people (most of the time) end up going to the simple route of finding a used blower kit, piecing it together, and having a very capable 11s car at 400whp that is failry reliable and cheap to maintain (cheaper than buying a new coyote).

My answers to those questions:
1) YES...my car is a staying with me...i have too much blood, sweat, and tears... I would regret instantly if I got rid of it.
2) I have low cash flow but can do everything myself...I chose to find a used Procharger setup and pieced it together over a few months. I'm close to being done with it and will have a 420-430rwh car that will now be semi relevant to today's cars.
 

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Nile P. Pezdel of Pez Dispenser Inc. CCA
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ALL RIGHT something I can talk competently about!

OK, so, a $25k upper limit for everything including labor is more than doable. If you're willing and/or able to do the bulk of the work yourself, you can make a mean build with that money. I've sunk about that much into the parts I've bought, but I've got a t56-magnum, a ported CJ intake, a brand new 2016 crate motor and a totally overkill Glenn's performance fuel setup. None of that is necessary and you can do all of it cheaper.

Here's my parts list:

REQUIRED:

· FRPP Crate Engine

· Billet Oil Gear Parts

· Boss Timing Chain Tensioner

· fuel injectors

· Fuel rails + lines and fittings

· Ignition coils

· Spark Plugs

· PBH Bracket

· 4 bolt Water pump pulley

· Boss Alternator

· Cobra Jet Pulse Ring

· Coil Bolts

· Control Pack

__________________________________________
Optional, but, really, I mean, why the hell wouldn't you?

· CJ Intake manifold


· CJ Oval Throttle body


· Ford CJ Cold Air Intake

· Boss Install Kit

· Intake Manifold Gaskets

__________________________________________

NECESSARY ADDITIONAL PYLONS


· BBK Ceramic Coyote Swap Exhaust Headers

· BBK Midpipe

· Flywheel bolts

· Flywheel (MPN# 563408)

· Clutch (MPN# 6912-07)

· Clutch Fork

· Throw out bearing and retainer shaft

· 355LPH Fuel Pump x2

· Sumped Fuel Tank

· Return Fuel System
__________________________________________

OPTIONAL, BUT RECOMMENDED


· Maximum Motorsports K-Member

· Maximum Motorsports Forward Offset Front Control Arms with urethane bushings

· Maximum Motorsports Bumpsteer Kit Outer Tie Rods + Gauge

· Maximum Motorsports Front Swaybar Relocation Kit

· Maximum Motorsports Swaybar End Link Kit, lowered 1-3/4" or more

· Maximum Motorsports Solid Motor Mounts

· Maximum Motorsports 1/2" K-Member Spacers

· Throttle pedal adapter

· Battery Relocator

· Stiffler's Trans Mount

__________________________________________
TOTALLY OPTIONAL STUFF:

· ABS Delete

· 3" Magnaflow Exhaust

· MM Steering Shaft

· Cobra R Steering Rack

· MMR power steering pump

· Power Steering Pump Pulley

· Maximum Motorsports Steering rack bushings

· Fluidyne Radiator

· Mishimoto rad mounts

· Moroso Radiator overflow tank

· SCT Tuner


The newer all aluminum engine and tubular front end lower the car's weight just about 400 lbs. That, plus the fact that it can rev out to 8k makes this a great choice for an open track car. Just started pulling my car apart, but working only on weekends and only when my friend, whose shop the car is in, is around, makes this a super slow project for me. I really, really want to have it ready for April so I don't miss another season, but I'm realistically more likely to have the whole car intact, tuned, aligned and a roll bar welded in sometime in June at best.
 

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2003 Sonic Money Pit
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Realistcally you're making a big ask of a $25k budget. Coyote alone is going to eat 10-15k in parts alone not including labor. Labor is going to **** you hard on this project. As for your trans. Can you use it? Yes. Will it live long? Probably not. I've bounced around on trying to track down a rear ended donor car but there is a that issue of you need to make damn sure it is in good condition or else you risk having a paper weight. I have looked at online auctions but the newer GTs are getting swooped up for more than I am willing to pay for the risk of having a busted Coyote. LMR has a kit that is $13 and has about 90% of what you need to do the swap and has the t56 mag. It is a big project OP and if you're paying someone else expect to hit upwards of 15-20k all said and done depending on what you do.
 

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Nile P. Pezdel of Pez Dispenser Inc. CCA
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Realistcally you're making a big ask of a $25k budget. Coyote alone is going to eat 10-15k in parts alone not including labor. Labor is going to **** you hard on this project. As for your trans. Can you use it? Yes. Will it live long? Probably not. I've bounced around on trying to track down a rear ended donor car but there is a that issue of you need to make damn sure it is in good condition or else you risk having a paper weight. I have looked at online auctions but the newer GTs are getting swooped up for more than I am willing to pay for the risk of having a busted Coyote. LMR has a kit that is $13 and has about 90% of what you need to do the swap and has the t56 mag. It is a big project OP and if you're paying someone else expect to hit upwards of 15-20k all said and done depending on what you do.
Guys in the facebook group for the swap are doing it for as low as $12k in parts. A used coyote with all the dressings isn't that expensive. If you get all new stuff, you can get a fully dressed longblock from Ford for under $8k, a budget fuel system, a new control pack, headers and keep the stock k-member (if you like pain) and do the swap for $13k in parts. I got a bare longblock (no intake, injectors, fuel lines/rails, water pump pulley), brand new, for $5900 from Summit and if you go that route, you can find a bunch of used stock engine dressing on the cheap from forums and facebook groups. Labor will definitely cost. I mean, it's a substantial project. Figure around $7k or so in labor, depending on the hourlies of the shop you use. T45 should be able to handle 390whp for a while if you can't afford or don't want to swap to a beefier trans right away. I still think $25k as a budget is on the high side of normal for this unless you go with some interesting options.
 
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Nile P. Pezdel of Pez Dispenser Inc. CCA
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Am I the only one who is thinking 600-700 hp for $25k is ridiculous? Lol. I could only imagine what I would have of I dropped 25k into the drivetrain of mine
More like 500hp, naturally aspirated. Obviously, you could make a 2v with a 1000 HP for less money. Try making a naturally aspirated 2v that can push upwards of 440 to the wheels, weighs 300lbs less than the stock motor and can rev to 8k without also being an absolute dog to drive. It's not about the numbers, it's about the use-case. I went back and forth on this swap for a while debating the pros and cons between this, a 5.3L 2v TFS headed, sheet metal intake build and a 5.4 DOHC build and found that this was the best option because of the ability to upgrade down the line and the fact that it is a driveable higher HP N/A option. I'm not a drag guy, I don't want the heat, complexity and weight of a power-adder. The Coyote platform can create some monstrous N/A build-cases. Swapping to ported GT350 heads and building the motor out later is always an option if I need to put 600hp to the wheels without adding any extra weight. It's a still-developing platform, after all.
 

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Am I the only one who is thinking 600-700 hp for $25k is ridiculous? Lol. I could only imagine what I would have of I dropped 25k into the drivetrain of mine
I am with you on that, the labor is what really kills it.

even then, if you were doing the work yourself. 10-12,000 on a clean, low mile well done coyote setup will still only net you around 400 whp. 440 if ypu do some mods to it.

that same price could get a built bottom end shortblock, Apr fasteners everywhere, ported heads, cams, a fuel system, a turbo system, proper front suspension/k member etc. and result anywhere from550- 600 rwhp and 600-650 rwtq on a very conservative tune pushing a mere 12ish psi on 93 pump gas... and still get 20+mpg on the highway.
 

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I am with you on that, the labor is what really kills it.

even then, if you were doing the work yourself. 10-12,000 on a clean, low mile well done coyote setup will still only net you around 400 whp. 440 if ypu do some mods to it.

that same price could get a built bottom end shortblock, Apr fasteners everywhere, ported heads, cams, a fuel system, a turbo system, proper front suspension/k member etc. and result anywhere from550- 600 rwhp and 600-650 rwtq on a very conservative tune pushing a mere 12ish psi on 93 pump gas... and still get 20+mpg on the highway.

This is true, but think of it this way. Back when the new edge was made, you would likely spend 5-7k for OE spec longblock, if you needed a replacement. At the current time, the Coyote is still pretty new of an engine. If you buy it used, you save some cash but no warranty. If you get it new, you have a 3 yr/36k warranty on your engine, which is pretty good for an engine that puts probably double the OE crank HP, since it puts ~150hp more AT THE REAR WHEELS than the stock crank hp rating for the 4.6 2V.

The upfront cost now is expensive, but after its done once, you could swap to a built coyote, etc. with just needing to swap the engine. As the coyote becomes an older engine, the cost will decrease as well.

Also, the 2011-2014 coyotes are now cheaper than the 15-17 because there were slight changes made to the 15-17. The 18 will likely be even more expensive, and see drops to the other two ranges again, as it has a slightly larger dispacement and some other changes, bumping rwhp even more.

If OP wasn't having to pay labor the realiability/peace of mind of a basically stock platform, that is much newer tech, with VVT, etc. for the cost would be a pretty good deal.

Also, since OP is paying labor, to have a NA build without the coyote he would have to pay a good bit in labor, plus whatever parts. And likely would not have nearly the street manners of his planned build.
 

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With you only driving the car about 100 miles a year.....why spend that much on the swap? Just keep what you have now and when and if it blows, then do the swap or rebuild/boost it. Don't get me wrong I understand the sentimental value, but just save up and wait till you need to change it. You mentioned something about not fully enjoying your investment.....drive it more then.
 

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Nile P. Pezdel of Pez Dispenser Inc. CCA
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While it is true that you can get and extra 150 rwhp with a Coyote. It is also true that you can get an extra 150 rwhp just by bolting on a supercharger running 8-9 psi. And you don't need to forge the 2V to do it. There used to be a $1500 supercharger thread going around but more realistically a used kit will cost $2500-$3000.

I do not follow Coyote mods very closely but if I understand it correctly the 11-14s have the same powder-metal connecting rods and pistons but the oil cooling jets keep the temperature down and increase the durability. And according to some posts that I've read the stock long block is capable of 600 rwhp. But you need a power adder to get there.

I have not researched this but I don't think dropping a Coyote into a 99-04 GT will get you the enhanced traction control system that allows you to put 600 rwhp to the ground on the street.

A forged 4.6 2V long-block with a six month warranty capable of 600 rwhp costs around $7,000 new and that includes Trick Flow heads. An additional 6 months on the warranty costs an additional $450. All you need is a power adder to get there.

These are the reasons that I have never been interested in a Coyote swap. I don't think the gain is worth the cost but it is a cool mod. Something to brag about.
 
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