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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright guys,

Here is my weird issue, just now i've discovered it and i think i won't be sleeping tonight :confused:

Scenario: my car was stock, got a Tune File from VMP for 93 octane, tuned the car but there was still some 90 octane fuel in the tank, everything was real good after the tune and i was happy!! :)

Took her for a highway ride just so that i can fill her up with 93 octane, i was doing high speeds runs with lots of WOT, while i was doing so, i noticed that the car starts shaking (while driving but minimal) when i've reached home, it was idling so bad, almost like a misfire / ricer 4 banger!! and sometimes even at extreme lower RPMs it sounds like a diesel truck!!! :eek: no trouble codes what so ever and just now i tune it back to stock, but problem is still there,

Intake, injectors,MAF,sparkplugs were all replaced/cleaned at Dealer 4,000 miles ago, so any idea what's going on?

Here is a short video,

mustangissue.mp4 video by mana_z400 - Photobucket

Help!! :sorry

I can see it's a Timing/spark firing issue, but im not sure... any idea?
 

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You can try checking for vacuum leaks, also check your electrical connectors on your coils, and your injectors. If you don't find anything there you may want to pull your pluggs and look at them. If all else fails I would do a compression check.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
so i took her to the dealer and they said its a simple misfire issue, so no worries, and yesterday they call me up and said " well its showing that the misfires occurs in cylinder #4, so we need to take the engine off and split it out and see whats wrong... doing that alone would cost $1,600 :eek: "

i think its redicolous, isnt it?? :confused:
 

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ehhh...somethins fishy..i wouldnt think you would have to tear an engine out to figure out a simple misfire. but then again..some arent so simple.. for 1600 bucks you could throw a set of plugs, injectors, and new cops, and id almost bet that would fix it if its just a "simple missfire"
 

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yeah i agree thats some bullshit right there,i could see if they said you have an internal engine problem and it's gotta come apart to be fixed because they knew what it was,but to not even know what it is and just jump straight to sayin the engine has to come apart is just bullshit,could be somethin as simple as a bad coil. i just hope ya didnt cause an internal problem from gettin on it with the wrong fuel on your tune.I would ask them to tell you what they think it is,and why they think it's internal and ask what test's they ran.
 

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thats bull don't do it. misfire repair does not cause that. $100 bucks says the motor won't come out or the so called tech looking at it doesn't have a clue. Ask them what tests they ran to verify this and see if you could watch them do it. If so see if they can swap a plug and coil from another cylinder and have them test it in front of you. the scanner (IDS or WDS) will tell you what cylinder misfires after that. More than likely it's a bad coil.
 

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Same thing happened to me, it was my coil. I had replaced the boot and the plug but it still was happening. Take your coil out and put the plug in it and set it on top of your engine and start your car see how strong the spark is. chances are its your coil, because the idle sounds very familiar to what mine sounded like. Its a very easy fix don't waste your money at a shop
 

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ok..after re-reading your post if its soundin like a deisel truck i dont think its somethin as simple as a bad coil..if it was just a coil that cylinder wouldnt even be firing,soo you gotta find out why its pinging,maybe timing from the tune is off? could have detonated a piston possibly? i mean i know dealers charge an arm and a leg and all but for them to say the engine has to come apart , unless they really suck they may know what it is and just havent communicated it with you properly i dunno ,but ya a compression check sure wouldnt hurt. hopefully its just the timing from the tune and nothing more =/
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
ehhh...somethins fishy..i wouldnt think you would have to tear an engine out to figure out a simple misfire. but then again..some arent so simple.. for 1600 bucks you could throw a set of plugs, injectors, and new cops, and id almost bet that would fix it if its just a "simple missfire"
thats bull don't do it. misfire repair does not cause that. $100 bucks says the motor won't come out or the so called tech looking at it doesn't have a clue. Ask them what tests they ran to verify this and see if you could watch them do it. If so see if they can swap a plug and coil from another cylinder and have them test it in front of you. the scanner (IDS or WDS) will tell you what cylinder misfires after that. More than likely it's a bad coil.
Same thing happened to me, it was my coil. I had replaced the boot and the plug but it still was happening. Take your coil out and put the plug in it and set it on top of your engine and start your car see how strong the spark is. chances are its your coil, because the idle sounds very familiar to what mine sounded like. Its a very easy fix don't waste your money at a shop

I agree with you guys, i was bite confused when they tolled me that engine should be taken off!!

ok..after re-reading your post if its soundin like a deisel truck i dont think its somethin as simple as a bad coil..if it was just a coil that cylinder wouldnt even be firing,soo you gotta find out why its pinging,maybe timing from the tune is off? could have detonated a piston possibly? i mean i know dealers charge an arm and a leg and all but for them to say the engine has to come apart , unless they really suck they may know what it is and just havent communicated it with you properly i dunno ,but ya a compression check sure wouldnt hurt. hopefully its just the timing from the tune and nothing more =/
Well the car started doing that all way when i was driving back, at home I returned it back to stock Tune and nothing has changed... still the bad rough idle... i think its far away from tune file ( well it could be, when i will get the car back from dealer tomorrow, i will tell them to update the PCM (stock tune) just to see if it would make a difference)

Im not going to fix her at dealer, as their labor charge is way too much, i will take the car to a basic electric shop and perform the basic tests, once i'll find out weather it's an Injector,coil,spark or a wire , I'll get this damaged part from the spares shop!! i think it would be a pocket-friendly way! ;)

i found your problem, ur not driving the right car... try driving that audi r8 in the vid :D lol
:lmao:lmao:lmao

duuuude! that's my sister's car!! she won't be giving it to anyone!!! lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well......

I took my stang to dad's garage for checking what exactly is the issue,

Me: Hey foreman! check my plugs and coils and the ignition! it got a misfire!

foreman: yes sir,

2 days Later...

Me: Hey foreman! what's up?

foreman: Hello sir, we found the problem.

Me: hell yeah! what is it??? its my coil on packs, right? :eek:

foreman: well sir, you did took it before to the dealer, right? what did they say?

Me: well, they said that its a misfire in cylinder #4 and oh well you need a new engine!

foreman: well sir, apparently they have a point...

Me: :eek: what?

foreman: This is what we found, your ignition system got hot while you were driving, your coil on packs were and are working fine, your spark plugs got hot and as you can see "he handled me two plugs, one was light brown in good shape "shiny and still looking new" and the other one was black with it's firing insert was slightly close to the tip!, he continue" one of your plugs got messed up because of the extra heat (me inside: ****! WOT at 12 noon with temp around 118F + 93 oct tune with 90 oct fuel :eek: ) and when this plug got hot, the tip got bend slightly and some of its residues went in the cylinder with the piston and mostly it ruined the piston, now we're being theoretical and we will be doing some more tests on it, splitting this engine isn't far ahead, but we will keep you updated & informed, sir.

Me: :shitbrick OK see you,

I leave the garage, end of talk... lol

so now here we are, the first ideas which came to my mind while driving

  1. Forged Internals build
  2. Engine swap!! either an 08 4.6 3v mustang i found 2 days ago or 5.4 3v 08 F150 doner engine swap :D

Honestly i have no clue what to do as on now, it was not in the plan!! lol, but i guess that's it... im leaning towards the forged build as i'll still be using my original engine, engine swap might be cheap and cool, but i feels the other parts (headers,pcm,hood clearance etc etc) will be pain in @ss (too much headache for me) but i don't know... maybe i'll just throw some stock parts and that's it.... :sorry

:sorry:feedback:help
 

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Seems a little overboard for the damage.... am I missing something here? Are you supercharged/turbocharged? I've been doing a lot of playing around with different timing on the 2V and really I'm not seeing much change, in other words, these modular 2V don't have much reaction to a timing change. Even with a high timing/low fuel issue on naturally aspirated I don't see the stock motor causing this much damage to itself. There is a very good chance that the only damage is that spark plug. Has anyone done a compression check on all eight cylinders? Leakdown on the cylinder with the damaged plug as well as the two adjacent cylinders? The whole diesel sound pretty well confims substantial damage but the whole scenario is troubling to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Seems a little overboard for the damage.... am I missing something here? Are you supercharged/turbocharged? I've been doing a lot of playing around with different timing on the 2V and really I'm not seeing much change, in other words, these modular 2V don't have much reaction to a timing change. Even with a high timing/low fuel issue on naturally aspirated I don't see the stock motor causing this much damage to itself. There is a very good chance that the only damage is that spark plug. Has anyone done a compression check on all eight cylinders? Leakdown on the cylinder with the damaged plug as well as the two adjacent cylinders? The whole diesel sound pretty well confims substantial damage but the whole scenario is troubling to me.
that's right dude! im also confused!

from my little experience and from what i keeps on hearing, those modular engines don't get reacted a lot with tunes, just tadly somehow... :confused:

my engine was running completely stock with just the 95 octane performance tune, with almost new plugs and oil change done 4k miles ago..

yesterday i went to the garage, he reported after doing the leakdown test, is that the car (after putting new plugs) is burning oil, cylinder #4 is burning the oil (which was the one with the damaged plug, so guess it's piston rings) he said he will be doing a custom washer which goes between the spark plug and cylinder so it will temporary stops the leak (hate this idea), he advising me to sell the car as it's considered to be a piece of sh!t to him and to get a chevy instead..... but it's never gonna happen!! :p

im really planning to fix this issue by the following:

- get a replacement new pistons :shiftyeyes

any feedback? :confused:
 

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King Trashmouth
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that's right dude! im also confused!

from my little experience and from what i keeps on hearing, those modular engines don't get reacted a lot with tunes, just tadly somehow... :confused:

my engine was running completely stock with just the 95 octane performance tune, with almost new plugs and oil change done 4k miles ago..

yesterday i went to the garage, he reported after doing the leakdown test, is that the car (after putting new plugs) is burning oil, cylinder #4 is burning the oil (which was the one with the damaged plug, so guess it's piston rings) he said he will be doing a custom washer which goes between the spark plug and cylinder so it will temporary stops the leak (hate this idea), he advising me to sell the car as it's considered to be a piece of sh!t to him and to get a chevy instead..... but it's never gonna happen!! :p

im really planning to fix this issue by the following:

- get a replacement new pistons :shiftyeyes

any feedback? :confused:
What it sounds like is you ran a 93 tune with 90 octane in hot weather. Low octane fuel, advanced spark, and high IAT's mean one thing; detonation. You know that diesel sound you mentioned? Detonation. That's exactly what diesels are technically doing, is detonating. So it's very possible you're looking at a damaged piston and rings, among other possible things. Not good at all.

But for the price of an engine repair, I'd advise 2 options that could be in the ballpark of the cost of a piston repair:
1.) MKVIII swap. Go over to the thread, get readin'. (5.4 if you're REALLY ambitions)
1a.) Engine swap. Same cost as MKVIII, but a hell of a lot easier. There's mod motors everywhere.
2.) All forged internals. Gotta replace one piston, might as well replace them all right? If you're having a shop do it, the major part is labor, and it won't be much difference in doing 1 vs all 8.
2a.) Forged shortblock, just swap over the heads. More capital up front, less labor though.

I suggest crunching some numbers to see what you can afford, and what kind of prices you can get.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
What it sounds like is you ran a 93 tune with 90 octane in hot weather. Low octane fuel, advanced spark, and high IAT's mean one thing; detonation. You know that diesel sound you mentioned? Detonation. That's exactly what diesels are technically doing, is detonating. So it's very possible you're looking at a damaged piston and rings, among other possible things. Not good at all.

But for the price of an engine repair, I'd advise 2 options that could be in the ballpark of the cost of a piston repair:
1.) MKVIII swap. Go over to the thread, get readin'. (5.4 if you're REALLY ambitions)
1a.) Engine swap. Same cost as MKVIII, but a hell of a lot easier. There's mod motors everywhere.
2.) All forged internals. Gotta replace one piston, might as well replace them all right? If you're having a shop do it, the major part is labor, and it won't be much difference in doing 1 vs all 8.
2a.) Forged shortblock, just swap over the heads. More capital up front, less labor though.

I suggest crunching some numbers to see what you can afford, and what kind of prices you can get.
Thanks man!

oh, detonation! used to hear this word a lot before, but i guess now i understood it's real meaning... :confused: I suck at explaining! :eek:

and yeah, thanks bud for the advices! i actually thought of doing something smiler to that, so after searching around (MM and local market) i found out the following:

1-Engine swaps are easily done over here, i searched in Dubai and around it for some engines and found mostly 2v 4.6s (98 GT's), 3v 4.6 (08 GT's) and 3v 5.4s (08~07 F-150s) , cost of those aren't that bad but the problem lies here: in Dubai, the Road and Transportation Authority is too strict for mods, so %150 if i swapped the engine my car won't pass the test (different engine number) :( so i crossed this idea... No engine swaps :(

2- Forged Internals can be done easily, no issue with the RTA (they check engine number and that's is, cammed or sprayed don't attract them!!!! turbo mods do :D) so i really think its the way to go for me! :D

3-Shortblock seems to be good, never thought of it, guess i'll search around for it....

As for the price and parts, over here we only get the stock spare replacement parts, no stroker, no cams :( good thing is that i buy everything online from USA :D , shipping sometimes is PITA but it's ok...

Right now im looking at Wiseco pistons, rings and rodes... i guess they should be good, but i don't know :confused:

Wiseco Flat Pistons Eagle 5.400 Rods Ford SBF 302 347 - eBay (item 270774787275 end time Jul-29-11 14:43:39 PDT)
 

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King Trashmouth
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Thanks man!

oh, detonation! used to hear this word a lot before, but i guess now i understood it's real meaning... :confused: I suck at explaining! :eek:

and yeah, thanks bud for the advices! i actually thought of doing something smiler to that, so after searching around (MM and local market) i found out the following:

1-Engine swaps are easily done over here, i searched in Dubai and around it for some engines and found mostly 2v 4.6s (98 GT's), 3v 4.6 (08 GT's) and 3v 5.4s (08~07 F-150s) , cost of those aren't that bad but the problem lies here: in Dubai, the Road and Transportation Authority is too strict for mods, so %150 if i swapped the engine my car won't pass the test (different engine number) :( so i crossed this idea... No engine swaps :(

2- Forged Internals can be done easily, no issue with the RTA (they check engine number and that's is, cammed or sprayed don't attract them!!!! turbo mods do :D) so i really think its the way to go for me! :D

3-Shortblock seems to be good, never thought of it, guess i'll search around for it....

As for the price and parts, over here we only get the stock spare replacement parts, no stroker, no cams :( good thing is that i buy everything online from USA :D , shipping sometimes is PITA but it's ok...

Right now im looking at Wiseco pistons, rings and rodes... i guess they should be good, but i don't know :confused:

Wiseco Flat Pistons Eagle 5.400 Rods Ford SBF 302 347 - eBay (item 270774787275 end time Jul-29-11 14:43:39 PDT)
Holy crap! Didn't even notice your location. That would definitely affect plans. I don't think you can go scoop up a junkyard MKVIII motor down the road for $450 like here.

Not sure if it'd be worthwhile for you to go forged if power adders aren't in your future, especially due to local regulation. You could however just get a new set of pistons to bump up the CR to make a little more power.

Again it always goes back to what your goals are. If FI isn't on the table, you could build a nasty NA motor pretty easily.
 

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What is a custom spark plug crush washer and how the hell will that temporarily "fix" ring blow-by??? You need to find another shop or buy a compression/leakdown test kit and check yourself. New plugs and a new COP are cheap test tools.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Holy crap! Didn't even notice your location. That would definitely affect plans. I don't think you can go scoop up a junkyard MKVIII motor down the road for $450 like here.

Not sure if it'd be worthwhile for you to go forged if power adders aren't in your future, especially due to local regulation. You could however just get a new set of pistons to bump up the CR to make a little more power.

Again it always goes back to what your goals are. If FI isn't on the table, you could build a nasty NA motor pretty easily.
haha, yeah dude, different location makes difference, hmmm MKVIII + $450 + down around here = not so really :rolleyes: , hell! a 98 Non-PI 4.6 2v is $1,090 over here!!! :eek: you guys are daaaaaym lucky! lol :(

Honestly, when i got the car initially, i wasn't really planning to do any major mods (only planned for suspension, intake, tune and exhaust) , 2 month later after lurking around in MM, my plans went to: LT's, Cams, 4.10s, shifter, UDP, intake, x-pipe.... :blah in other words "Full bolt-on's" with cams and maybe spray :drool

And now, after discovering what i've discovered (apparently), if my piston is damaged (which im now 90% sure about), then def. a new pistons should go, which means engine will be split, which means tear down, which means better do it once, which means Forged internals, BUT i gotta pay for the university, which means "on-the-budget" rebuild!

again, running a mustang with forged internals and loopy cams isn't an issue to RTA, hell even my buddies with their supercharged Denali's are fine with it!! so i guess i should be fine (i've asked some buddies in the RTA and they said if u got an 800hp twin turbo'ed Supra, then u will face problems)

I love Kenne Bell superchargers, but again im planning to do it maybe after 4 years from now coz i gotta save a bite, so until then, parts can be replaced, right now, i just need to do it right, safe, powerful and clean build! ;)

What is a custom spark plug crush washer and how the hell will that temporarily "fix" ring blow-by??? You need to find another shop or buy a compression/leakdown test kit and check yourself. New plugs and a new COP are cheap test tools.
I don't know either man! I'm totally against this idea since new plugs are already there and the COP as report are still good, the mechanic said that it will temporary solve the issue by stopping the oil which is coming from the crankcase to the combustion chamber and all the way to the spark plug holes from being leaked and losing the pressure... :eek: sounds ridiculous to me,But lets see,
Whole issue as report is that, just a spark plug got heated and some metal residues from its tip get melted and fall into the cylinder and got cooked.. now what worries me most is that if the cylinder walls are also damaged, piston is sure, but if the walls are damaged then oh crap! nobody around here can sleeve or repair cylinder :( new spare off the dealer or aftermarket from USA... shipping would sucks!! :(

I'm going in few minutes to the garage and see if anything new happen...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
engine and tranny is out, it would be easier to work on engine while its out, this new garage seems to know his sh!t! :)

anyway guys, right now im looking at ModMax 5.0 stroker kit, after a quick search, they sounds to be good for me (planning to go 5.0 then later on get cams, then a kenne bell)

any feedback / notes for me when getting this stroker?

btw, with 22cc pistons, i"ll be running around 9.5 compression, thats a 95 octane, right? lol
 
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