Modded Mustang Forums banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,238 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was thinking about it today and wouldn't you be able to run a little more power on a TC vs a SC safely on stock internals? Can anyone prove or disprove this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,512 Posts
the power is power, is more about rpms though. either way the motor still has the same breaking point no matter how it makes the power
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,403 Posts
more isnt what puts stress on the motor, its combustion pressure or boost that puts stress on it. so the most efficient charge of air coming in (lowest temp) is going to make the most power, and also have the least stress on the motor.

with that being said, the turbo on the same boost as a SC weather its roots, TS, or CF is going to make lots more power as it doesnt use the engines power to turn it, and it also has a cooler charge temp most of the time.

so with that being said without a doubt a turbo will make more power safer on the motor.

but ill also tell you a turbo HAS to be tuned right, no mail order tune bullshit, or its never going to run right, and will shorter the length of your motor. also turbo's are a good ammount of maintnance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,238 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
more isnt what puts stress on the motor, its combustion pressure or boost that puts stress on it. so the most efficient charge of air coming in (lowest temp) is going to make the most power, and also have the least stress on the motor.

with that being said, the turbo on the same boost as a SC weather its roots, TS, or CF is going to make lots more power as it doesnt use the engines power to turn it, and it also has a cooler charge temp most of the time.

so with that being said without a doubt a turbo will make more power safer on the motor.

but ill also tell you a turbo HAS to be tuned right, no mail order tune bullshit, or its never going to run right, and will shorter the length of your motor. also turbo's are a good ammount of maintnance.
That's what I thought, I just needed confirmation. Because the blower has a leech on the engine the turbo will create more power with the same cylinder pressure (right termonology?).

I actually plan on forging my internals before I even get a Turbo. It's a long ways away so things could change. If I do get a Turbo before forging my internals I will be staying right around 400 rwhp, NEVER above 425 rwhp until my internals are like


Plus, if I'm gonna spend the money on a TT, I will def go out of my way to get to a GREAT tuner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,512 Posts
i was saying on a stock motor its gonna break at the certain power no matter if its from a turbo or a supercharger. now if its on a built motor of course the turbo will amke more power.

but your question sounded like you were asking if you could run more power on a stock motor with a turbo over a supercharger
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,403 Posts
i was saying on a stock motor its gonna break at the certain power no matter if its from a turbo or a supercharger. now if its on a built motor of course the turbo will amke more power.

but your question sounded like you were asking if you could run more power on a stock motor with a turbo over a supercharger
power isnt what kills a motor. his stock motor is probably 100% safe to 9PSI whether its from a turbo, or a SC, with a SC 9PSI will probably get you 375-410, on a turbo it could very well be over 500RWHP, and would have no more stress on the motor, if anything less because not only is not using the engines power which is what makes the big power gain, but its also typically a cooler charge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
same boost levels a turbo is gonna make more power. and you can get away with more boost cause like KC said you inlet temps will be lower.

also like drgn said though your stock internals will only hold so much and WILL break eventually. you may get away with it for a while but your just playin russian roulette waiting on your internals to scatter once their potential is reached
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,238 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
i was saying on a stock motor its gonna break at the certain power no matter if its from a turbo or a supercharger. now if its on a built motor of course the turbo will amke more power.

but your question sounded like you were asking if you could run more power on a stock motor with a turbo over a supercharger
That was my question. I know the difference won't be huge but I think it would at least be a little. I think the average leech on a KB is like 10% (if it's not, let's just pretend). If you make 425 rwhp with a 10% leech, then that means you will make 472.2222222 rwhp with a 100% effecient blower (not possible) at the same psi... meaning the same load/stress on the engine. So take a turbo for instance (not sure of the efficiencey here but I know it's better then a blower, so let's say 2% "leech"). At the same psi it would make 462.7777777777 rwhp. So to me that means a turbo would make more power putting the same load/stress on the engine which translates into more power safely on stock internals. Correct me if I'm wrong though. This could just be something I pulled out of my ass while bored as hell at work that only makes sense to me...
 

·
mm's nitrous mod
Joined
·
12,988 Posts
remember that headwork will affect capabilities. if the head can be more efficient moving the air, the motor will naturally hold more power. less time that the cylinder is under pressure, and the air can evacuate faster. head work so on and so on, but it also comes to personall preference on which power adder to do.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,403 Posts
same boost levels a turbo is gonna make more power. and you can get away with more boost cause like KC said you inlet temps will be lower.

also like drgn said though your stock internals will only hold so much and WILL break eventually. you may get away with it for a while but your just playin russian roulette waiting on your internals to scatter once their potential is reached
it MAY, and TYPICALLY has lower intake temps, it all depends on which SC yoru comparing, which turbo kit, which IC, what size turbo, ect. they wont always be lower. but most of the time they will. plus the turbo's dont build as much heat and heatsoak during back to back pulls with a blower will.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,238 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
remember that headwork will affect capabilities. if the head can be more efficient moving the air, the motor will naturally hold more power. less time that the cylinder is under pressure, and the air can evacuate faster. head work so on and so on, but it also comes to personall preference on which power adder to do.
Another question. I know there is a difference between N/A cams, blower cams, turbo cams, etc. But what about porting heads? Is there a difference in how they can be ported to work the most efficiently with a specific setup? Or is it pretty cut and dry and they are all the same portings?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
power isnt what kills a motor. his stock motor is probably 100% safe to 9PSI whether its from a turbo, or a SC, with a SC 9PSI will probably get you 375-410, on a turbo it could very well be over 500RWHP, and would have no more stress on the motor, if anything less because not only is not using the engines power which is what makes the big power gain, but its also typically a cooler charge.
i gotta disagree here. the more power you put to the ground the more stress your puttin on your motor and everything else. power does break engines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
it MAY, and TYPICALLY has lower intake temps, it all depends on which SC yoru comparing, which turbo kit, which IC, what size turbo, ect. they wont always be lower. but most of the time they will. plus the turbo's dont build as much heat and heatsoak during back to back pulls with a blower will.
+1 theres too many variable to start the discussion but generally speaking. you can almost always make your turbo run a lower inlet temp vs. a s/c
 

·
mm's nitrous mod
Joined
·
12,988 Posts
Another question. I know there is a difference between N/A cams, blower cams, turbo cams, etc. But what about porting heads? Is there a difference in how they can be ported to work the most efficiently with a specific setup? Or is it pretty cut and dry and they are all the same portings?
N/A is all about velocity, and boosting is about moving volume at the best possible velocity. N/A is planned around a basic 14.7 atmospheric pressure, to where boost will add pressure and the factor is getting that pressure to move efficiently. when trying to move air N/A on a blower set up, you will come into air stall issues. when having specific work done, it is important that the person that is doing the work know what is going to be done and is capable of doing the work right.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,403 Posts
i gotta disagree here. the more power you put to the ground the more stress your puttin on your motor and everything else. power does break engines.
well then explain it to me, it doesnt me a difference how much power it makes, stress is stress. the better in can flow, in and out, the more pwoer its going to make with less stress. for isntance that that turbo at 9PSI on a stock motor thats going to be less stress and more power than a SC on 9PSI. the turbo is probably going to make around 500RWHP lets say. then port the heads, and do a set of cams. guess what, you just increased the flow so you reduced stress on the motor, while adding power.

efficiency is pretty simple really. its like take a GT eaton kit at 8PSI, its a 112CI blower which is 1.84L. compare that to a old KB 1.7L blower. the KB 1.7L is going to make more power safer on the the PSI because it is more efficient. and a turbo is no different
 

·
mm's nitrous mod
Joined
·
12,988 Posts
well then explain it to me, it doesnt me a difference how much power it makes, stress is stress. the better in can flow, in and out, the more pwoer its going to make with less stress. for isntance that that turbo at 9PSI on a stock motor thats going to be less stress and more power than a SC on 9PSI. the turbo is probably going to make around 500RWHP lets say. then port the heads, and do a set of cams. guess what, you just increased the flow so you reduced stress on the motor, while adding power.

efficiency is pretty simple really. its like take a GT eaton kit at 8PSI, its a 112CI blower which is 1.84L. compare that to a old KB 1.7L blower. the KB 1.7L is going to make more power safer on the the PSI because it is more efficient. and a turbo is no different
still cant match the e-chargers!:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
so when you launch a 500rwhp car it doesnt have more shock in the drivetrain than a 400 hp car? that shock doesnt just stop at your tranny it goes all the way though your engine. almost every catastrophic failure ive seen has been off the line. the reason for that is all the shock that is produced from launching
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,238 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
well then explain it to me, it doesnt me a difference how much power it makes, stress is stress. the better in can flow, in and out, the more pwoer its going to make with less stress. for isntance that that turbo at 9PSI on a stock motor thats going to be less stress and more power than a SC on 9PSI. the turbo is probably going to make around 500RWHP lets say. then port the heads, and do a set of cams. guess what, you just increased the flow so you reduced stress on the motor, while adding power.

efficiency is pretty simple really. its like take a GT eaton kit at 8PSI, its a 112CI blower which is 1.84L. compare that to a old KB 1.7L blower. the KB 1.7L is going to make more power safer on the the PSI because it is more efficient. and a turbo is no different
Yeah but I'm pretty sure with my stock internals, TT at 9psi, heads and cams will annihilate my engine. That's probably, depending on the grind, over 600 rwhp...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,403 Posts
so when you launch a 500rwhp car it doesnt have more shock in the drivetrain than a 400 hp car? that shock doesnt just stop at your tranny it goes all the way though your engine. almost every catastrophic failure ive seen has been off the line. the reason for that is all the shock that is produced from launching
way too many factors in there. which power adder? what kind of tires? weight? clutch? flywheel?

alot of failures are because alot of people dotn know what there doing. one of the biggest problems is guys go to the tracks with 17" DR's thinking they have drag tires.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,403 Posts
Yeah but I'm pretty sure with my stock internals, TT at 9psi, heads and cams will annihilate my engine. That's probably, depending on the grind, over 600 rwhp...
lots of people run 9PSI and even more on a SC, it will be alot easier on your motor than that.
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top