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everyone has their opinion, and doing max lift is a quick way to injure yourself. in the past i was concerned with the numbers but i would rather look like a beast and not be strong than be strong and look out of shape. as i got older i have changed my lifting technique and routine to be more diverse and always changing. barbells vs dumbbells each have their place in the gym and both should be used. dumbbell work control and stabilizers, but wide grip barbell incline, decline and flat will stretch and widen the chest. IMO looking big is often described as being miss proportioned. Big traps, lats, and triceps can completely change the look of a person. being lean also gives the illusion of being big and ripped as well.
 

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everyone has their opinion, and doing max lift is a quick way to injure yourself. in the past i was concerned with the numbers but i would rather look like a beast and not be strong than be strong and look out of shape. as i got older i have changed my lifting technique and routine to be more diverse and always changing. barbells vs dumbbells each have their place in the gym and both should be used. dumbbell work control and stabilizers, but wide grip barbell incline, decline and flat will stretch and widen the chest. IMO looking big is often described as being miss proportioned. Big traps, lats, and triceps can completely change the look of a person. being lean also gives the illusion of being big and ripped as well.
I know what you're saying. Powerlifters can max much more than bodybuilders, but bodybuilders are much bigger. What the average person see as "big" is also different than what advanced lifters see as big. Hell, a lot of people consider Brad Pitt in Fight Club to be big. What you listed, big traps, lats, and triceps (as well as deltoids) do give the impression of size. They basically add size and width to your silhouette from the front and the back, but if you want to look big from the side or not straight on, you really need a decent chest for it to look right.
 

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So this goes back to the old school physique discussion. Calum Von Moger. Dudes huge, minus the gut




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The biggest difference in the old school guys and the new pros are the choice of supplements. HGH is huge now its got tons of great properties but you also see some of the issues when jay or Ronnie etc got on stage. Non of these guys are natty that also expands into the "tested" federations.
 

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The biggest difference in the old school guys and the new pros are the choice of supplements. HGH is huge now its got tons of great properties but you also see some of the issues when jay or Ronnie etc got on stage. Non of these guys are natty that also expands into the "tested" federations.
Thank you. Even in these so-called, self-proclaimed "natural" bodybuilding federations, no one is natural. Hell, I know a guy who was hospitalized numerous times for, and admitted to using, steroids for years, but later claimed to be natural and competed in a "natural" competition. I have nothing against steroids/drugs, I think they should be legalized, as it'd make their use safer for everyone involved, but the whole "natural" thing in competitive bodybuilding is nonsense. Hell, have you heard about the whole NBA HGH thing? I haven't looked into it much, but it's interesting. So many athletes are on something that they "shouldn't be," not just bodybuilders, and you don't have to be a huge mass monster to be "using."

Don't forget insulin as well as GH.

Have you seen Arnold criticize the state of bodybuilding today:

Cedric does have a decent waist (by modern standards), as Arnold said.


Calum Von Moger is a huge step in the right direction. Have you seen anything with him actually pulling in or vacuuming his waist though? He has a good waist for sure, not bloated and distended like so many guys have now, but will we ever see waists like this again:



Brian Buchanan was just insane:
 

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Yeah I've never seen him hit a vacuum pose. But I'd take what he's got over all the nasty ass distended stomachs. I can't stand looking at that, how can anyone say that looks good? I just don't get it

On that same note, I think I need to start bracing myself differently when I lift. It looks like I have a beer belly if I'm relaxed and not flexing. Bugs the hell out of me


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Yeah I've never seen him hit a vacuum pose. But I'd take what he's got over all the nasty ass distended stomachs. I can't stand looking at that, how can anyone say that looks good? I just don't get it

On that same note, I think I need to start bracing myself differently when I lift. It looks like I have a beer belly if I'm relaxed and not flexing. Bugs the hell out of me


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Or perhaps just try to incorporate some stomach vacuum exercises. That's what I'm starting to do.
 

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On that same note, I think I need to start bracing myself differently when I lift. It looks like I have a beer belly if I'm relaxed and not flexing. Bugs the hell out of me
i feel the same way about my stomach pushing out when i am relaxed. half my workouts in the gym i have my gut pushed way out on accident and i pretty much look like a fat ass the hole time i am there. people say it happens with weighted ab workouts but i don't know how far i believe that. i think it is more genetic than anything.
 

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Yeah I haven't tried any vacuum stuff yet. I might try to find something

i feel the same way about my stomach pushing out when i am relaxed. half my workouts in the gym i have my gut pushed way out on accident and i pretty much look like a fat ass the hole time i am there. people say it happens with weighted ab workouts but i don't know how far i believe that. i think it is more genetic than anything.

Yeah that's exactly what I do. I brace and push my stomach out so I think if I concentrate on not doing it so much it may help. I don't even work abs, let alone weighted stuff



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i feel the same way about my stomach pushing out when i am relaxed. half my workouts in the gym i have my gut pushed way out on accident and i pretty much look like a fat ass the hole time i am there. people say it happens with weighted ab workouts but i don't know how far i believe that. i think it is more genetic than anything.
I'm not sure if there is any scientific evidence of this, but a good friend and training partner of mine loves to do heavy, low rep ab exercises, and he does have big, defined abs, but they are distended and convex instead of concave. I haven't heard about any of the old school bodybuilders doing super heavy, low rep ab exercises either. I know Frank Zane did a ton of reps for abs.
 

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You can work core all you want. there is nothing better than a strong core, but abs are coming from diet. Without cutting the fat it doesn't matter how hard you hit them, they wont pop
 

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You can work core all you want. there is nothing better than a strong core, but abs are coming from diet. Without cutting the fat it doesn't matter how hard you hit them, they wont pop
That's true, but you still should work abs if you want to have great abs. You also really have to train for a vacuum if you want to be able to do it, and I want to be able to do it. I'm guilty of not training abs hard enough, but that's changing.

Here's an interesting quote from Arnold about abs:
Never train your abs with heavy weights, because you'll get a thick, chunky midsection that detracts from your V-taper and ruins symmetry. Do high reps with no weight at all, or very light weights at most. Exercises for the lower abdominals can sometimes be done with extra weight, as you are unlikely to get ab thickness in this area.
 

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I've still been at it at least 5 days a week. I'm maintaining right at 190 and continuing to get stronger. Haven't maxed on much lately. I did do my heaviest thruster to date at 175 while I was working out in Mexico last week.
 
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