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Discussion Starter #1
I don't care if a person smokes or not. Doesnt bother me. I wont get into the debate about America and having choices...but thats what this is about. ****, 300 people die every summer in swimming pools yet swimming pools are totally legal. Anyway, enough about that.

I see alot of organizations stating you must sign a waiver saying you are tobacco free and if you are not, your terminated. Thats bullshit. If you are a smoker and you are under the same break and work policy as a non smoker than why should it matter? Everyone likes to say "smokers take more breaks and blah, blah, blah"....but what if they dont? what if they abide by the same exact policy? Some may argue that it costs the group insurance to go up....well, thats bullshit too especially if the smoker gets their insurance somewhere else or through a spouse. You can also say that smokers get sick more and all that crap which makes them miss more days off work and stuff but Im not buying that either. I have a coworker that doesnt smoke and she takes more time off to take care of her kids and elderly mother than I can count.

If you don't like smoking then fine. Your allowed to hate it. Your opinion is valid. But why let it now dictate employment? I mean, if your a Catholic, can we now say that you cant be hired because you may want to go to Church on Sunday mornings? Hell, I find that a more logical reason to not hire someone especially if you needed help on Sundays.

I just feel like people are ****ing know it alls sometimes. "I know whats best for you". Screw off with that. I can't own a gun because you think you know whats better for me? I can't smoke a joint because its a "gateway" drug and you know thats going to hurt me? I am so sick of people pushing their damn moral and ethical crap on me mixed with **** DATA they googled.

Let me make my own choices! I dont smoke weed, I dont own guns but if you want to, you should have the right and freedom to do it without me telling you whats good for you!!!! If I want to smoke a death bringing cigarette with a beer on the weekend, you shouldnt be able to fire me from my job!!!

Pretty soon , some assholes going to figure out that my beard is a health risk. When they do, I will have to shave it or go to jail, lose my job or be stoned in public for it.

Opinions are awesome but the minute they dictate what someone else can or cant do it becomes discriminatory.
 

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I agree that it is bullshit that people will be terminated for smoking cigarettes. If they take longer breaks then do something about that, don't fire them for being smokers. I don't smoke, but the majority of people that I work with do and if they're terminated I'm pretty sure we'd go out of business.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Is there any irony that the specific job that got me thinking about this was a Government agency position?
 

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There's a lot that can be argued about the differences from smoking, marijuana, alcohol, guns, etc. but as long as these things are used responsibly then get off our backs.

I guess smoking cigs responsibly would be to not smoke around people that don't like it.

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

Is there any irony that the specific job that got me thinking about this was a Government agency position?

Lol, maybe just a little :shiftyeyes
 

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Zip's half naked helper
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Health insurance rates are lower for non smokers. I'm lucky enough to work at a place that gives me that lower rate because I haven't lit up in over 9 years.

But one question- if you don't like the rules at your workplace, why the heck are you still there?
 

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As far as smoking is concerned if you want to smoke that's fine but you should do so in your own home, on your own property, or inside your own vehicle. I don't think a workplace should have provide you with a place to smoke. If you want to take a break and smoke sit in your car. I also think there should be a fine when parents are clam baking cigarette smoke with kids in the car, I hate that ****. Smokers tend to always congregate at business entrances, that not only makes your business look like ass, but it also pisses people off going to restaurants, walking out of the gym etc.

I do realize once your addicted to smoking it's hard to quit, but it is a nasty habit just like chew.
 

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Zip's half naked helper
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In Arkansas it's a primary offense (meaning you can be pulled over and ticketed for just doing that) to smoke in a car with children present. Plus you can't smoke within 50 ft of a restaraunt entrance or 100 ft from a hospital.
 

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^^^^We need those rules here. At this point all you can do is tell the parents how you feel about the situation during a stop. They pretty much say whatever as the poor kid in the back is surrounded by second hand smoke. Any time I make a stop and they are blowing cigarette smoke I ask them to put it out, most are respectful. It is also common for people to try to continue smoking when you go to hook them up on a charge. The black leather gloves work well to remove a cigarette from the mouth lol. I go into some houses where the cigarette smoke is so thick you could cut it with a knife. I have them come outside.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Health insurance rates are lower for non smokers. I'm lucky enough to work at a place that gives me that lower rate because I haven't lit up in over 9 years.

But one question- if you don't like the rules at your workplace, why the heck are you still there?

I dont work there. However, Im not debating smoking in a way that is inconvenient or offensive to others...Im tired of Dudley do Rights telling me whats good for me and then imposing rules or laws. Its about pushing righteousness. Smoking is nasty, dirty etc and I agree. Smoking in cars with kids, smoking near entrances is inconsiderate and I agree. Im just saying that companies are stating that you cannot smoke at ANYTIME even on your personal time at home or on time off. Its punishable by termination. To say you dont allow smoking at work...even thats fine. But Im just tired of everyone making choices for everyone else because "they know whats best for you". Its bullshit.

My point is back to swimming pools. So many people have them and people and kids drown much more often then realized. So why isnt there any companies out there that state "if you own a pool, or get a pool while employed, its grounds for termination"? Is this because some people have a need to contest something they simple dont like or had bad personal experience with to justify in their own heads somewhere they are somehow better than someone who smokes? People who smoke are generally poor scum with no self control....that makes me feel higher on the food chain and a better class of human?

I see no logical reason financially or otherwise to ban someone for personal choices (good or bad) that they make on personal time. Its none of the companies business at all as long as that person comes to work and does their job as describe like everyone else. As long as there are no special concessions being made. I swear, it just seems like certain people need to judge others on some level about everything to gain a sense that they are somehow better than that "group" of people.

BTW, if I was a cop, I'd make a perp put out a smoke too for various reasons. Also, I'd still work at a place if I smoked that said I couldnt.
 

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Let me make my own choices!
I literally laughed out loud here and my wife asked what was so funny. I find it funny how you're saying to let me make my own choices, but taking away the business owner making their own choices. By essentially demanding that businesses allow smokers and non-smokers, you are taking away their ability to make their own choices. As we've gone over in the past, I'm for the rights of business owners and to allow them to make their own choices. If they want their employees to be tobacco free, they should be free to establish their own policies. If they do not want to establish such a policy, they should be allowed to.

Bottom line is that you saying you should be able to make your own choices is taking away from other people's ability to make their own choices. No one is making you or anyone else take that job that does or doesn't allow smoking.

I work for the government and even if marijuana is legalized in my state, I still cannot smoke it w/out potentially losing my job. If I wanted to smoke and it was legalized in my state, I would find a new job. It's a known fact that while working my job it's not allowed even in my personal time. So I either have to choose to keep the job or smoke and get a different job. Bottom line is that it's a choice.
 

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^^^This. It is an employers right to prohibit certain things. For example I cannot grow facial hair(besides a stashe), I can't have sideburns beyond middle ear, if I had hair it has to be neatly trimmed, there are policies on social media, I can't consume any alcohol 4 hours prior to shift, I have to get 3 year medical exams and take a PT test, I have to wear certain colored t shirts, have to put requests in to carry specific style knives.......etc.......etc. This is my employers rules. Other agencies allow officers to grow beards, burns, carry a back up weapon etc. I knew what I signed on for and I follow the rules or I get disciplined or fired.

In the case of cigarette's, the employer should have a say. I can't remember how many times waiter or waitress has come to take my order smelling like cigarette smoke. As an owner I would not let that happen.
 

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The company I work for is now a "Smoke-Free Workplace" we used to have a designated smoking area behind the shop, it was far from the showroom and anywhere where customers would be. Now since the company as a whole is a "Smoke-Free Workplace" employees who smoke are no longer allowed to smoke on the property. What this has caused is the smokers now walk out the street to smoke, so now whenever you drive by the entrance to our parking lot you will see atleast 1 person out there smoking, often times there are several people out there. 9 times out of 10 it is an hourly employee still on the clock who is out there smoking on company time, I personally have no issue with the technicians smoking on the clock since they we are flat rate so if they are out there smoking they aren't making money therefore aren't getting paid. So now the hourly smokers are getting paid to walk farther to go smoke than they did before which is forcing them to take longer smoke breaks on the clock. We have a parts associate who will randomly leave the parts room to go smoke and be gone for 15-30min at a time several times a day. I HATED that **** cause he used to work on my shift and all of our ROs are on computers so when I would put in an estimate to the parts department to find prices he would be halfway through making an estimate and just get up and walk outside to smoke for a half hour or so which delayed me making money.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I literally laughed out loud here and my wife asked what was so funny. I find it funny how you're saying to let me make my own choices, but taking away the business owner making their own choices. By essentially demanding that businesses allow smokers and non-smokers, you are taking away their ability to make their own choices. As we've gone over in the past, I'm for the rights of business owners and to allow them to make their own choices. If they want their employees to be tobacco free, they should be free to establish their own policies. If they do not want to establish such a policy, they should be allowed to.

Bottom line is that you saying you should be able to make your own choices is taking away from other people's ability to make their own choices. No one is making you or anyone else take that job that does or doesn't allow smoking.

I work for the government and even if marijuana is legalized in my state, I still cannot smoke it w/out potentially losing my job. If I wanted to smoke and it was legalized in my state, I would find a new job. It's a known fact that while working my job it's not allowed even in my personal time. So I either have to choose to keep the job or smoke and get a different job. Bottom line is that it's a choice.
Im talking about an individuals choice to do what he wants on his own time. If I smoked a cigarette 11 months ago and didnt tell them on the application and then they found out, they could terminate me. If I smoked at a bar on Saturday night 500 miles from work, they could fire me. Why should any owner or corporation be able to establish laws or rules that dictate what I do on personal time. Ifs its funny because Im "taking a choice away from business" then so be it. I cant win that argument and will not try. Why is this infringement on my person time ok but people would go ape **** if a business owner didnt hire a person because they were pro abortion in their personal time? What if that person was gay but you couldnt tell at all? What if the policy was "if we found out you were gay in your personal time up to 12 months before hiring"?

True story- My daughter was raped years ago. It was tragic as hell. Most difficult thing to deal with. To make it worse, she got pregnant from it. she was a young teenager in the wrong place and the wrong time. As a parent, I made a choice for her by making her get an abortion. I took the choice away from her so she could never have regrets...I shouldered that part. Now, I went to my health plan at the time and they clearly said that my insurance covered the abortion because it was detected at such a critically early state. However, my EMPLOYER made an amendment to the health plan that basically denied that service even though it was paid for by the insurance company. They denied it under all circumstances, no questions asked. Too bad, we will not allow the insurance company to pay for it. It doesnt matter the reason why. This bugs the **** out of me! I didnt read up in the hand book anywhere before I took the job about their ability to block paying for abortions and even if I had, I would have never "not taken" the job for that reason. But clearly, the companies stance was forced onto me know.

Sorry, I just dont like it. Dont tell me whats right and wrong and tell me what to do on my time.

When an employers says "you cant smoke and you have to have been smoke free for 12 months prior to hire" is not the employer exercising a "choice" its different somehow. They are taking choices away from individuals. Yes, I get the argument that its the companies choice and we can go round and round but somehow its different.

If I never smoked at work at all...never smoked around the building at all...only smoked on Sunday, then what?

The more you let anyone take anything from you, the more they will continue to take.
 

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Zip's half naked helper
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Have you ever owned a business? If you have, you would think differently. Would you want employees that had a higher health risk? Possibly out of work longer when they get I'll because their respitory system is not 100%?

So I'll ask the question again. If you are aware of a certain policy (such as this), and do not agree with it, why work there?
 

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I don't agree they are taking anything away from employees. You can either follow the rules they set or not work there. My job is somewhat unique but my entire personal life is covered by my job. There is policy outlining "Conduct Unbecoming An Officer". This isn't in place for just when I am at work, but also effects my personal life. I can't go out on my own time and get all banged up at a bar and stagger around acting like a moron without taking the risk of losing my job. It is just how it is. If the company sets a no smoke policy, they are not taking anything away, it is your choice to comply or find employment elsewhere.

I actually commend the company for promoting health. Maybe the risk of a job loss is what some people need to stop inhaling poison.
 

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Im talking about an individuals choice to do what he wants on his own time. If I smoked a cigarette 11 months ago and didnt tell them on the application and then they found out, they could terminate me. If I smoked at a bar on Saturday night 500 miles from work, they could fire me. Why should any owner or corporation be able to establish laws or rules that dictate what I do on personal time. Ifs its funny because Im "taking a choice away from business" then so be it. I cant win that argument and will not try. Why is this infringement on my person time ok but people would go ape **** if a business owner didnt hire a person because they were pro abortion in their personal time? What if that person was gay but you couldnt tell at all? What if the policy was "if we found out you were gay in your personal time up to 12 months before hiring"?

True story- My daughter was raped years ago. It was tragic as hell. Most difficult thing to deal with. To make it worse, she got pregnant from it. she was a young teenager in the wrong place and the wrong time. As a parent, I made a choice for her by making her get an abortion. I took the choice away from her so she could never have regrets...I shouldered that part. Now, I went to my health plan at the time and they clearly said that my insurance covered the abortion because it was detected at such a critically early state. However, my EMPLOYER made an amendment to the health plan that basically denied that service even though it was paid for by the insurance company. They denied it under all circumstances, no questions asked. Too bad, we will not allow the insurance company to pay for it. It doesnt matter the reason why. This bugs the **** out of me! I didnt read up in the hand book anywhere before I took the job about their ability to block paying for abortions and even if I had, I would have never "not taken" the job for that reason. But clearly, the companies stance was forced onto me know.

Sorry, I just dont like it. Dont tell me whats right and wrong and tell me what to do on my time.

When an employers says "you cant smoke and you have to have been smoke free for 12 months prior to hire" is not the employer exercising a "choice" its different somehow. They are taking choices away from individuals. Yes, I get the argument that its the companies choice and we can go round and round but somehow its different.

If I never smoked at work at all...never smoked around the building at all...only smoked on Sunday, then what?

The more you let anyone take anything from you, the more they will continue to take.
I'm on the phone so this will be short. Bottom line it's that it's a personal choice to work at the establishment. The policy is known prior to being hired and if the employee doesn't like it or doesn't want to sacrifice their rights, don't take the job. I have a hard time feeling sorry for people when they make a choice full well knowing the policy and then complain about it after they made their choice.

The situation with your daughter is different than your OP because they're changing the rules after the situation has occurred with no advanced notice. But if a business has a standing policy that they won't allow the insurance to cover abortions, I support their right to make their own choice. Change policy on a whim, i don't support. Maintain a policy of their choice, i do support.
 

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I view this a bit differently than most of you will perhaps. I don't smoke or drink and on a personal level, I believe that the world would be a better place if no one smoke or drank. BUT, I realize this isn't a realistic expectation, so that being said, I find it silly that people are trying to tell you what you can and can't do. If they can tell you you can't smoke, then next, they'll tell you that you can't be obese, or you can't drink....yada, yada...This is the liberals in our country fighting for this type of thing, wanting to eliminate personal responsibility on the individual. Personally? If it's not affecting your work performance, I could care less.

EDIT:
I also believe that a business owner has the right to choose who he or she wants working for them. Whatever the reason be. If he doesn't want to hire a white guy because he's white, fine. Why on earth would the white guy force the owners hand who doesn't want him there? (apply this thinking to the smoker argument)
 

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When I was at BCPD there were rules that were enforced and others that weren't. 3 way swaps were a no no but they got done. Same with the tabacco policy, as long as you didn't smoke or dip in front of chief or while talking to someone they didn't care.
 

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i hate going to a restaurant and trying to eat while smelling cig smoke,half the time i end up leaving,or talking to someone and there breath smells like a ash tray and they think breathmints or chewing gum hides it. alot of places around here is smoke free..last week i seen something that really pissed me off and that was a couple with a new born baby in the std cab ford ranger and both of them was smoking and barley had the window cracked and the kid was crying its eyes out but the parents was to busy smoking that cancer stick to care.

imo if you wanna smoke thats fine your body and choice not mine,have enough respect for others that ask you to not smoke in a smoke free place or work zone.if you cant respect that then dont come back
 

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The problem with "discriminating" against smokers and the nicotine testing thing is where the nicotine is coming from. I feel like the people that support nicotine testing think cigarettes are the ONLY source of nicotine. Chewing tobacco, in general, yeilds a far lower risk of oral cancer than cigarettes with lung cancer. What about e-cigs? Nicotine vapor, zero carcinogens. Nicotine alone is as harmful to the body as caffeine. So if someone that uses e-cigs is forced to piss in a cup to be tested for nicotine, they are labeled as a smoker, health risk, scum, raper of daughters, ect. Then this guy's eco-nazi, prius-driving boss fires him for being a terrible tobacco-using looser while sitting on his environmentally friendly high horse, sipping on his Starbucks mocacappapeppermochialaté. Extra double "Venti" size with extra cholesterol.
 
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