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Discussion Starter #41
Regardless of the reason maybe he had weed or a bag of exotic animal dung in the car does that somehow now justify what happened?! If not then why the hell bring it up next thing you know his school grades will be posted up. Smh that's the usual trend you know.
 

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I was just trying to lighten up the mood, but your're right it doesn't really matter. As far as justification for what happened, time and additional information will tell in my opinion. On the flip side as far as trends, when somebody is shot by the police it is the trend for society to try and pick that officer's career and personal life apart. While the bad guy may have only smoked some weed, or assaulted and terrorized a immigrant store clerk, he was just a "Gentle Giant" and a good kid. The officer is a POS no matter what. Just look in the Brown case, they couldn't dig up anything on Officer Wilson, yet he was a total POS is the eyes of his community. That is the trend.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Trust me when I say point taken Fox!
 

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Discussion Starter #44
F20 I see what you are saying. I'm on the phone not on the computer so I can't really combine these msgs.
 

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Hopefully we can get this stuff figured out over the years. This is tearing the country apart internally. Like I said before in the Northeast we don't see a lot of this stuff. There are really no defined line between races. It's a mixing pot. I was at a Red Sox game on Tuesday and was looking around at all the different races and ethnicities. They were all jumbled together like it should be. No defined groups, no BS. It made me proud and thankful to live in America. I know it's not like that everywhere but it should be and we can strive for it.

As far as these recent situations with police it is just magnified 100 times by racial tension that turns it into something more than it is. If we can get to a point where we can separate the two we will be better off and solve some issues. Both sides are on edge because of the media and other extremist groups.

We don't have a large population of blacks in the area I work. You would think that would put them on edge or worry them based upon what people are stating country wide about the police and racial profiling. In fact it's the exact opposite, most black people around here trust and support the police. I have had contact with many professionally and have had zero issues and never got any feeling they were worried. There just isn't any racial tension here that is why it's hard for me to look at some of these posts and consider it.
 

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It's not good for Cincinnati. They had race riots something like 15 years ago over the same thing. I like to think of that community as a "melting pot", but I know it just isn't true. The city is split into sections like any other city. This will surely rip it apart once again.

For context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

Over the Rhine, was considered the roughest part of the city around this time. In recent years, the city has been really cleaning it up there and businesses are starting to move in. I believe Nick Lachey's brother's bar is there, but this could turn all of that progress around and push those businesses back out into the suburbs.
 

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Regardless of the reason maybe he had weed or a bag of exotic animal dung in the car does that somehow now justify what happened?! If not then why the hell bring it up next thing you know his school grades will be posted up. Smh that's the usual trend you know.
Smh, not being cooperative with the police and seeing the last of your days seems to be trending higher.
 

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It's not good for Cincinnati. They had race riots something like 15 years ago over the same thing. I like to think of that community as a "melting pot", but I know it just isn't true. The city is split into sections like any other city. This will surely rip it apart once again.

For context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

Over the Rhine, was considered the roughest part of the city around this time. In recent years, the city has been really cleaning it up there and businesses are starting to move in. I believe Nick Lachey's brother's bar is there, but this could turn all of that progress around and push those businesses back out into the suburbs.
Yep, up until recently we've always been warned to stay out of OTR. Problem is, in the process of cleaning up OTR, they're just pushing government subsidized housing out into other areas, namely Price Hill. So no ones really fixing the problem, just displacing it. Price hill has never been the safest area to begin with, though.
 

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Yep, up until recently we've always been warned to stay out of OTR. Problem is, in the process of cleaning up OTR, they're just pushing government subsidized housing out into other areas, namely Price Hill. So no ones really fixing the problem, just displacing it. Price hill has never been the safest area to begin with, though.
I mean it makes sense though. When you gentrify a neighborhood, you're not necessarily educating and making the citizens better...."citizens." Really all you're doing is making the cost of living in the neighborhood higher. What this does is force the "poor" cases to move to poorer neighborhoods.

So you end up with this really wealthy side of town and then you cross over the metaphorical (and sometime physical) railroad tracks and you're instantly in the slums. That's the hardest part of a town's complete gentrification is overcoming that last little bit, because there is nowhere left to squeeze the "rotten" portion of the apple to.

Living in New Jersey (for anyone familiar with it) Passaic, Jersey City, Hoboken, (NYC is pretty close) all have extremely wealthy neighborhoods and extremely poor slums. Englewood Cliffs (where Eddie Murphy lives amongst others) has multimillion (double digit millions) dollar homes, and the next town right over is Englewood and Teaneck which might as well be the dredges. Franklin Lakes (where The Real Housewives of NJ lived, hanging onto my man card because I'm married and my wife watched it) is right next to Paterson, which placed 6th on the worst cities in America.

I'm sure that you guys could cite examples from your own neighborhoods.
 

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impecunious
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I mean it makes sense though. When you gentrify a neighborhood, you're not necessarily educating and making the citizens better...."citizens." Really all you're doing is making the cost of living in the neighborhood higher. What this does is force the "poor" cases to move to poorer neighborhoods.

So you end up with this really wealthy side of town and then you cross over the metaphorical (and sometime physical) railroad tracks and you're instantly in the slums. That's the hardest part of a town's complete gentrification is overcoming that last little bit, because there is nowhere left to squeeze the "rotten" portion of the apple to.

Living in New Jersey (for anyone familiar with it) Passaic, Jersey City, Hoboken, (NYC is pretty close) all have extremely wealthy neighborhoods and extremely poor slums. Englewood Cliffs (where Eddie Murphy lives amongst others) has multimillion (double digit millions) dollar homes, and the next town right over is Englewood and Teaneck which might as well be the dredges. Franklin Lakes (where The Real Housewives of NJ lived, hanging onto my man card because I'm married and my wife watched it) is right next to Paterson, which placed 6th on the worst cities in America.

I'm sure that you guys could cite examples from your own neighborhoods.
That metaphorical railroad tracks here is called Vine Street. You're asking to get shot on one side of the street, the other side resides million dollar homes and children happily playing outside.
 

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I don't often agree with the MM left-wingers … but I gotta say, the “dragging” defense seems pretty thin.
After reviewing the video a few times, I'm slanting this way a little bit too. I think the guy drew his weapon and probably had his finger on the trigger already, and squeezed off a round.
 

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After reviewing the video a few times, I'm slanting this way a little bit too. I think the guy drew his weapon and probably had his finger on the trigger already, and squeezed off a round.
You hear the starter engage at 1:52, then you hear the motor running at 1:53. He's shifting into gear and the cop is yelling and reaching in at 1:54. At 1:55 he has a hole in his head. I'm no forensics expert, but I'm not sure how much "dragging" could have happened in that timeline. I couldn't really even tell if the car was moving before the shot ... probably very little, if any.

He probably drew his weapon when Dubose reached up to restart the car. He had his finger on the trigger and as soon as the car moved he fired ... like a reflex. I think the cop immediately knew he had royally flucked-up. That's why he started trying to sell the idea of being dragged. Still tough to say for sure though.
 

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You hear the starter engage at 1:52, then you hear the motor running at 1:53. He's shifting into gear and the cop is yelling and reaching in at 1:54. At 1:55 he has a hole in his head. I'm no forensics expert, but I'm not sure how much "dragging" could have happened in that timeline. I couldn't really even tell if the car was moving before the shot ... probably very little, if any.

He probably drew his weapon when Dubose reached up to restart the car. He had his finger on the trigger and as soon as the car moved he fired ... like a reflex. I think the cop immediately knew he had royally flucked-up. That's why he started trying to sell the idea of being dragged. Still tough to say for sure though.
But does that timeline really matter? If the vehicle is moving it can be considered assault in the eyes of the law, no? Then you look at from the perspective that it didn't move. There was still intent right? I mean we know the car was in drive and the foot on the accelerator when he was shot. There is no denying that. Basically, what you are saying is the guy has to have been dragged before he can fire a shot. That doesn't make any sense. A cop won't wait for a criminal to raise their gun and shoot at them before firing, how is this different? I understand the cop didn't have to reach in to stop him, but it happened quickly. The dude broke the law and the cop had every right to pull him out of the vehicle to check him out.

I don't see anything I've stated above as anything other than fact. The biggest question is, is there enough evidence of assault with a deadly weapon to allow the officer to walk?
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Mike I get what you are saying about not agreeing with "left wingers " but imo this situation man that really has nothing to do with it. Just like you just layed it out imo in a way I think this cat over reacted and used that dragging defense to try to cover his ass all things considered.

But don't think I'm missing your point where some cases are heavily amplified in the media and some actions are over exaggerated as if they are on the basketball court. But in this particular situation where a life was lost it looks like this guy stepped in some $hit with that defense. That's not at all saying the guy should have started the car up or whatever.

In laws in so barley responding to avoid being rude by being on the phone.
 

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People also don't realize that the individuals perception of a threat is taken into consideration. Example, I stop a parolee on the street. He keeps reaching into his waist band. I ask him to stop, he tells me he has a gun and starts to reach again. He produces a black item. At that point in time, my perception of a threat may allow me to use force, including deadly force.

I am not sure what Ohio self defense laws are. If they allow for a perceived deadly threat to be taken into consideration, he may be justified.

People also fail to acknowledge that in many states, an officer may stand their ground. If he is acting in legal grounds to forcefully remove a suspect from a vehicle, and in attempting to do so, the individual decides to flee in the vehicle, he may have no duty to let go. He is probably well within his legal right to place part of his body inside or on the vehicle in an attempt to remove said individual from the vehicle. If they flee, and in doing so, place him in danger of serious physical injury or death he is also probably justified in the shooting.

All in all. I think maybe it wasn't necessarily the right thing to do, or a negligent discharge, but believe due to the reasons I listed above he will be acquitted. They are all very likely defenses for this charge.
 

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But does that timeline really matter? If the vehicle is moving it can be considered assault in the eyes of the law, no? Then you look at from the perspective that it didn't move. There was still intent right? I mean we know the car was in drive and the foot on the accelerator when he was shot. There is no denying that. Basically, what you are saying is the guy has to have been dragged before he can fire a shot. That doesn't make any sense. A cop won't wait for a criminal to raise their gun and shoot at them before firing, how is this different? I understand the cop didn't have to reach in to stop him, but it happened quickly. The dude broke the law and the cop had every right to pull him out of the vehicle to check him out.

I don't see anything I've stated above as anything other than fact. The biggest question is, is there enough evidence of assault with a deadly weapon to allow the officer to walk?
Last I checked, you don't typically get yanked out of a car for no front plate or license on you. I've been pulled over without my license on me and doing something a bit worse then no front plate. He was opening the door AS he told the guy to take his belt off. There was no pause. Kind of like telling a kid to drop the gun AS you shoot him, but obviously that was okay to a lot of people here, so guess I'm wasting my time on that point...

And as far as the assault, it goes beyond the distance he seems to have moved(which many of us think occurred after the dude went limp and the car sped up, including people who do this as their job). At no point in the video do you see his arm or hand caught in the car up to the point of the shot. Seems like a stupid move, personally. There is a large overlap between something a cop can do and a very stupid move, and what seems to look like voluntarily going for a ride is one of those things that firmly fall into both categories.

Even the typical merry-go-round of pundits and guests (lawyers and criminology professionals) on Fox have been saying this dude straight up lied in his report, and the two other officers backed that lie up. Even Fox Five, a group of the most asinine motherfuckers on TV, caved in saying the officers story and the video clearly didn't line up.

Like Serb said earlier, I just don't get how some people think this is okay.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
I wonder if the training and the preception had anything to do with the charges that were filed based off of the video. If one was in front of a progressing vehicle or behind a vehicle that was slammed into reverse or had half or over a quarter of ones body into a car doing business into a car that charges forward that seens to be one thing.

But to be standing beside a vehicle and be able to take a step or multiple steps back seems to be a different story when the option of a shot to the head was followed through with. So there is one thing about Joey the parole who keep reaching into his waistband after being told to stop and then pulls out some black object imo that's one hell of an or quite an odd comparison to this split second reaction of turn key slight roll BOOM!! Right up he dragged me.
 

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I wonder if the training and the preception had anything to do with the charges that were filed based off of the video. If one was in front of a progressing vehicle or behind a vehicle that was slammed into reverse or had half or over a quarter of ones body into a car doing business into a car that charges forward that seens to be one thing.

But to be standing beside a vehicle and be able to take a step or multiple steps back seems to be a different story when the option of a shot to the head was followed through with. So there is one thing about Joey the parole who keep reaching into his waistband after being told to stop and then pulls out some black object imo that's one hell of an or quite an odd comparison to this split second reaction of turn key slight roll BOOM!! Right up he dragged me.
I agree with you. I'm simply using another example of perception. I still think he'll be acquitted.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Man I wouldn't be surprised at all.
 
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