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MM's resident Juice head
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Discussion Starter #1
I let my tuner drive my car the other day to get a second opinion on the engauging / disengauging of my set up...right off the bat he said it was disengauging way too high on the pedal...then he took it for a burn.

He missed second gear himself first try! and he runs at the track every weekend and powershifts all night long.

He told me it was acting like it was overcentering and "hooking" is this possible on a hydraulic set up?

Another thing, not only is it engauging high on the pedal, but you only have to depress the clutch about 2 inches for it to disengauge and shift gears freely.

WTF?
 

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Dude, whether you care or not it should engage up high which is a good sign. If it were engaging down low it would be all together different and a more common problem. I mean, the clutch should begin to slip when the pedal is depressed only a couple of inches with a hydraulic set up. That's normal. It's hard to say without driving the car or pulling the transmission out for a look, but I'm thinking one possibility is the disc is getting hung up on the input shaft due to the shaft possibly being slightly twisted. Have you been running drag radials with a lot of HP?
 

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MM's resident Juice head
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Discussion Starter #3
naw just street tires with around 560 Foot pounds of torque...is that enough to tweak it?

Ya sometimes it feels like the clutch hangs up down there. I i know what you mean about being high on the pedal...but this is REALLy high...and takes very little depression to disengauge....there is only 2000 miles on this clutch and engine...15,000 miles on the tranny....lots of 100 and 150 shots run thru it though.
 

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Just thinking out loud, but the fact that it takes such a little movement on the pedal to get the disc disengaged kind of supports the idea that the input shaft may be twisted. You haven't been running drag radials, but some high speed forth gear engagements will twist it on street tires. Are you getting a ''nobody is home, door's locked'' shift or a grinding crunch when shifting at high R's and does it happen on every high R gear change meaning every gear?
 

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MM's resident Juice head
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Discussion Starter #5
Nobodys home almost all the time...its frustrating second and third mostly...never in fourth....third is defenantly worse
 

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The weird thing about that is most guys with our cars have that problem when the clutch engages close to the floor rather than way up high like yours. The point I'm making is if you stab the pedal a little and it's disengaged quickly (up high) then the rest of the pedal stroke should really get the disc far away from the flywheel resulting in a cleaner shift. I think I'd at least pull the transmission and inspect the shaft. No parts, just labor and get that idea out of the way and move on from there.
 

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MM's resident Juice head
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Discussion Starter #7
its lookin like i might have to do that i guess...sucks cuz everything is so new still.
 

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I know. I can't tell you how many times I've been ****ed by new parts.
 

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MM's resident Juice head
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Discussion Starter #9
ya, ive had quite the go around this winter with this build and new parts...heads in particular
 

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Ken you should just give me your livernois heads. Thats whats causing your problems.
 

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My buddy is making about 650 to the rear, can't remember the torque numbers. He is having the "nobody is home" EVERY time he tries to shift under power. You think it might be binding the shifter and not wanting to go into gear ken?
 

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In the July '08 issue of MM&FF (pg 140) there's an article tittled "Moment Of Release". Justin Burcham owner of JPC racing and the 2005 World's Fastest Mustang record holder says alot of shifting issues inherent in the S197's, particularly when adding hp, that are attributed to transmission/clutch problems are really caused by the factory slave cylinder being the weak link. Some aftermarket mfg's have built a stronger throw out bearing to handle the extra duty. Just food for thought. Here's a few links on the subject..

New: Ram S197 HD Adjustable Hydraulic Slave Cylinder - High Performance Stangs

2005+ Mustang GT hydraulic clutch problems - Ford Mustang Forums

Won't Go In Gear At 2nd to 3rd Speed Shift - IMBOC

Adjustable Slave Cylinders : Lethal Performance, Performance parts for Ford Mustangs

McLeod Industries: Frequently Asked Questions
 

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In the July '08 issue of MM&FF (pg 140) there's an article tittled "Moment Of Release". Justin Burcham owner of JPC racing and the 2005 World's Fastest Mustang record holder says alot of shifting issues inherent in the S197's, particularly when adding hp, that are attributed to transmission/clutch problems are really caused by the factory slave cylinder being the weak link. Some aftermarket mfg's have built a stronger throw out bearing to handle the extra duty. Just food for thought. Here's a few links on the subject..

New: Ram S197 HD Adjustable Hydraulic Slave Cylinder - High Performance Stangs

2005+ Mustang GT hydraulic clutch problems - Ford Mustang Forums

Won't Go In Gear At 2nd to 3rd Speed Shift - IMBOC

Adjustable Slave Cylinders : Lethal Performance, Performance parts for Ford Mustangs

McLeod Industries: Frequently Asked Questions

We pretty much covered this possibility in the past. The problem is this guy's pedal engagement is the exact opposite of what you'd get when needing an adjustable release brg to cure shifting woes. I've got that McLeod release brg which really improved my shifts because my pedal was engaging closer to the floor. The fact that his clutch begins disengaging way up high on the pedal stroke suggests that his hydraulics are at least trying to give a full disengagement.

07stroker, I guess you have poly motor mounts? Also, keep in mind that different pressure plates offer varying rates of movement because of their mechanical design. What I mean by that is one brand plate will allow a different amount of disc disengagement than another brand that uses the exact same hydraulic system. I had several different Centerforce plates before getting one that had the correct geometry when they were starting to ship combos for the new stangs back in '05. The 3rd plate they sent me finally worked right even though all 3 looked the same to the naked eye. I actually used one of the **** versions on my son's car along with a McLeod release brg. It is still on his car and operating well only because the release brg is custom set up to the plate and it also offers .700'' of movement compared to the .500'' you get with a stock brg.

In your case I would first get the tranny out and inspect the input shaft and pressure plate. You may have a defective pressure plate causing the whole problem. A pressure plate's mechanical/moving parts can break/bend and cause all sorts of problems. I'd just pull the tranny, check all of this out first.
 

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MM's resident Juice head
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Discussion Starter #14
I ordered the spec 3+ from JPC thru Radmustangs.

I dont have poly bushings, my set up is in my garage. I have the torque limiters. I also got the low pressure pressure plate which was recomended to keep my pedal feel stock

And Mike i dont know man, I thought it was my shifter at first...is there any adjustment in the rod assembly on these cars for the clutch pedal?
 

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I ordered the spec 3+ from JPC thru Radmustangs.

I dont have poly bushings, my set up is in my garage. I have the torque limiters. I also got the low pressure pressure plate which was recomended to keep my pedal feel stock

And Mike i dont know man, I thought it was my shifter at first...is there any adjustment in the rod assembly on these cars for the clutch pedal?
Man are you ever gonna catch flak from the MGW Lifestyle Associates if it turns out not to have been your problem.... :)
 

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I ordered the spec 3+ from JPC thru Radmustangs.

I dont have poly bushings, my set up is in my garage. I have the torque limiters. I also got the low pressure pressure plate which was recomended to keep my pedal feel stock

And Mike i dont know man, I thought it was my shifter at first...is there any adjustment in the rod assembly on these cars for the clutch pedal?
There's no adjustment at all. You've got the master cylinder which sends brake fluid straight down to the slave/release brg. No rods or anything other than the rod that's in the cylinder bore. I've never heard of that pressure plate before. I've got a question. You'll have to go out to your car and check this. When you first touch the pedal is there a slight soft feel for like the first 1'' of travel or maybe even less than 1'' before it stiffens up and begins to move the pressure plate?
 

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OK, that just eliminates everything being tied up too close together. For example, if you have the slave/brg too close to the pressure plate it will cause the lack of free play, but shouldn't affect the shifts, just prematurely wear out the throwout bearing. Your going to need to pull the tranny and probably find a pressure plate issue or a twisted input shaft more than likely. There's only one way to find out. I'd bet it's in the bell housing.
 

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The Despised Vert
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My input shaft was twisted from 585 tq... the Spec 3+ clutch was completely shot.. and I never speed shift... I don't know what HP your were making but I was around 550
 

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MM's resident Juice head
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Discussion Starter #20
how do you fix this input shaft if its twisted...do you have to take apart the tranny?
 
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